Flash - hot news item from australia

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I was watching the news on the dumb box two nights ago and they were covering this story about guns being smuggled into Australia. They showed a video of these two cops tearing into a large Teddy bear. They were looking for illegal weapons being smuggled into the country. They found them. They laid them out on a coffee table for the camera to film. The stash included a small semi automatic pistol and it's magazine. I pity the poor guy who brought in the stuffed bear. When the actor Johnny Depp smuggled in his wife's dog into Australia they were threatened with all manner of dire punishment. As far as I know, nothing happened to either of them. They simply flew their dog out of the country on a private jet against the government's order. This is the way the story was told to us but of course we all know it may be not be anywhere near the truth. Perhaps some of our friends from down under can give us more details.

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GPPxGX8pdA

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/gun-smuggling-linked-to-criminal-gangs/story-e6frg6nf-1226499388180


HANDGUNS smuggled from Nashville, Tennessee, have been linked to criminal gangs in Sydney by NSW police working with US authorities to bust the importers.

A joint operation by Australian and US law enforcement officers this week led to the arrest of three American citizens in Nashville.

More arrests are expected soon in Sydney, police say.


NSW Police and Australian Customs officers have been working for months with the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and the US Drug Enforcement Administration to bust the smuggling ring.


In Sydney today, NSW Police Firearms and Organised Crime Commander, Detective Superintendent Ken Finch, said the operation had identified 20 handguns believed to have been imported into Sydney.


Four of the semi-automatic, self-loading pistols had been seized in Sydney, including one found in a police raid at Fairfield in Sydney's west on January 21.


"The firearms we have identified here are certainly linked to criminal gangs," said Superintendent Finch, who declined to specify which gangs.


He said the guns were bought in Nashville in mid to late 2011 by local citizens commissioned to do so by an American citizen and Australians.


Handguns were cheaper and easier to acquire in the US, and it was not uncommon for them to be sold for $15,000 on the streets of Sydney, Superintendent Finch said.


He said it was believed the guns had been smuggled into the country inside car engines.

Noting a recent spate of shootings in Sydney, Superintendent Finch said it was crucial for law enforcement agencies to target the illicit guns trade.


Australian officers were present when US agents executed search warrants in Nashville on Wednesday morning local time, arresting three men who now face firearms charges.


Australian Customs Cargo and Maritime Targeting Manager John Gibbon told reporters there were an estimated 10,000 illicit handguns in Australia and about 250,000 longarms.


He said most had been stolen from licensed owners or dealers, but there was a growing trend of importation.

Superintendent Finch said NSW police last financial year seized 6949 illegal firearms.


The maximum penalty for the illegal importation of firearms is a $275,000 fine or 10 years' imprisonment or both.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/crims-corner-cyber-links-to-contraband/story-e6frep2f-1226367870851


Illegal firearms a booming trade through international mail order services

THOUSANDS of guns - some broken down into 30 pieces - are being seized by Australian Customs as criminals use the internet to widen their networks.


Gun pieces hidden in bags of screws, tools and car parts are being found by scans, as soaring international mail deliveries become an increasing challenge for authorities.


The Sunday Mail can reveal that more than 4000 guns, parts and magazines were seized by Customs between 2008 and 11.


The internet is being used for communication, and black market web portals are emerging as a new marketplace for instant and anonymous transactions between organised networks and individuals.


"Criminals are quite agile," Customs and Border Protection's national manager of cargo operations Jagtej Singh told The Sunday Mail.


"If they get caught, they will try something new.


"The challenge for us is to always remain ahead of the game."


The seizures included rifles, handguns, shotguns, machineguns and parts.


In Queensland, 377 guns, parts and magazines were seized, compared with 372 in Victoria, 290 in the Northern Territory, 80 in Western Australia, 15 in South Australia and three in Tasmania.


In NSW, 2950 weapons were seized.


More than 50 per cent of the guns were from the US, but many are understood to have been on-sold to Asian countries or shipped through Asian ports. Seized items can be legitimate and are released by Customs if they meet import requirements. In April, three deaths were related to incidents involving handguns, including the shooting of Jack Lee at an Eight Mile Plains shopping
centre.


International mail has increased so much due to the internet that 2015 mail forecasts of more than 55 million items will be met this year.


Sea and air cargo is reported electronically to Customs and is risk-assessed using intelligence, but international mail is not reportable and its intended recipient and location are only known when the item is handled.

It can also be delivered to addresses with fake names.


The Armory (http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/index.html), a weapons website accessible through software that allows users to remain anonymous, this week had listings for handguns, machineguns, shotguns and explosives, with sellers in the US and the UK.


Through the Armory it cost more than $2000 for a gun to be shipped into Australia, and some sellers claimed to be undetectable.


"The challenge with that is it (the internet) is very integrated now, it's real-time, so things can happen quite quickly," Queensland director of cargo operations John Ikin said.


This year, a syndicate linked to a post office in Sydney was smashed after up to 220 illegal Glock pistols from Austria were smuggled in from Germany.


Some of the weapons, in parts spread across more than 10 packages, were linked to shootings in NSW.

Customs officers inspect about 10 per cent of the estimated 14 million air cargo consignments each year, and 4 per cent of 2.4 million sea cargo containers, and screen 35 per cent of 55.8 million international mail items.

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2013/01/gun-smuggling-in-australia-apparently.html


John R Lott - 1/25/2013Gun smuggling in Australia, apparently the criminals are still obtaining guns
Before I had posted a note that legal guns in Australia had returned to pre-buyback levels (http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2013/01/australian-gun-ownership-back-up-to.html). Well, it turns out that the types of guns that were banned are also arriving in significant quantities. From the Sydney Morning Herald.


. . . About 12 to 14 months ago, police noticed it had become much easier to obtain an illegal handgun in Sydney than it had in the past. (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fists-give-way-to-firearms-20130125-2dc3l.html)


The Commander of the Firearms and Organised Crime Squad, Ken Finch, says, at one stage, there was even a ''glut'' in illegal arms driving down prices on the black market.
Hard work by his squad, including a state-wide audit of every licensed firearm owner and significant busts of importation syndicates, helped to push the price back up to about $15,000, yet he says there are still far too many illegal handguns available.


''Our intel, particularly during last year … indicated there are a lot of handguns out there,'' Detective Superintendent Finch says. ''There seemed to be an inordinate number come on to the market very quickly.''


An analysis carried out by police found handguns were used in 88 per cent of gun crimes in the past 12 months. For public-place shootings, that increased to 94 per cent.


At the same time, of the 632 firearms stolen from legal gun owners in NSW over the past year, only 10 per cent were handguns, indicating the guns are coming onto the market by other means.


Last March, three people were charged after Australian and German detectives smashed an international gun-smuggling syndicate that was being run, in part, from a suburban southern Sydney post office.


It is alleged up to 300 Glock pistols were imported over 12 months through the postal system.


A German gun dealer had been duped by the trio, who purported to be authorised gun buyers and ordered individual parts in separate packages and assembled them using instructions found on the internet.


While most of the guns were recovered by police, at least seven have been used in drive-by incidents in Sydney. . . .

Thanks to William Blake for the link.

[Artful]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-26/source-of-illicit-guns-in-australia/6483762


Fact check: Where do Australians get illegal guns?

Posted 25 May 2015, 3:11pm

Tracing the source of guns used in crime across Australia is difficult, and the origins of illegal firearms is the subject of significant disagreement among federal lawmakers.

The claim: Nationals Senator Bridget McKenzie says most guns used in crime are illegally imported rather than coming from licensed owners.

The verdict: ABC Fact Check could find no study or evidence that proved the majority of guns used to commit crimes are illegally imported. Comprehensive data on the source of illegal guns in Australia is lacking. Senator McKenzie's claim is baseless.

A recent Australian Crime Commission report on organised crime said a new database being developed will track the full life of a gun, something law enforcement agencies have never been able to do.

But for now, where illegal guns come from remains a hotly debated topic.

A Senate inquiry into managing gun-related violence resulted in two reports: one signed by the committee chair, Greens Senator Penny Wright, and Labor Senator Joe Ludwig; and a second signed by three Coalition Senators and Liberal Democrats Senator David Leyonhjelm.

When the reports were tabled on April 10, Victorian Nationals Senator Bridget McKenzie accused Senator Wright of "waging a relentless scare campaign trying to demonise licensed and responsible firearms owners".

"What we have found is clear evidence provided by witnesses, including law enforcement agencies, that most guns used to commit a crime do not originate from licensed firearms owners but are in fact illegally imported," Senator McKenzie said in a media release.

Is it true that most guns used to commit crime are illegally imported? ABC Fact Check investigates.

Illegally imported guns

Senator McKenzie claims that most guns used to commit crimes don't come from licensed owners.

The Australian Customs and Border Protection Service told the Senate inquiry that in 2013-14, it found 1,737 undeclared firearms, parts and accessories that people had tried to import illegally into Australia, of which 80 were guns.

Karen Harfield, national director of intelligence for Customs and Border Protection, told the inquiry it was impossible to know how many guns came into Australia illegally.

"We are talking about an illicit market. So in relation to how many times it happens, the answer is, we do not know what we do not know," Mrs Harfield told the inquiry.

The Australian Crime Commission told the inquiry that its National Firearm Trace Database showed that only 1 per cent of guns that ended up in the black market were illegally imported.

The figures for firearms thefts do not appear to support the contention that they are a major source of firearms fuelling gun crime in NSW.

NSW Police

However, a submission from the NSW Police took a different view.

It said its Strike Force Maxworthy, established in 2012 to investigate illegal firearms arriving from overseas, found 140 ammunition magazines for Glock pistols had been imported by mail, ready for reassembly.

Twelve assembled Glock pistols were recovered in raids. This compared with 25 handguns stolen in NSW in 2013-14.

"When compared to the number of handguns identified as having been illegally imported through operations such as Strike Force Maxworthy, the figures for firearms thefts do not appear to support the contention that they are a major source of firearms fuelling gun crime in NSW," the NSW Police submission said.

Roderic Broadhurst, professor of criminology at ANU, told Fact Check it is impossible to know how many guns are smuggled.

He said that on "dark net" websites like Silk Road, guns were "big ticket" items, which could be sent in bits by post.

"Many weapons nowadays, apart from perhaps the barrel, are made from plastic – not too easily detectable by X-ray machines and so on," he said.

"The reality is you can't inspect every box, every container, and you'd be doing pretty well to do 4 to 5 per cent, because the volumes are huge."

He said guns could also now be made on 3D printers.

For more on 3D-printed guns, read this fact file.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-26/3d-printing-fact-file/6429816

Tracing illicit guns

Samantha Bricknell, research manager of the Australian Institute of Criminology's violence and exploitation research program, told Fact Check the National Firearm Trace Database was the best data source on illegal guns.

It tracks unregistered guns seized by law enforcement agencies.

The Crime Commission's evidence to the Senate that only a small percentage of illicit guns were imported came from its trace database.

Dr Bricknell took the trace database records of 2,750 firearms seized up to 2012 and analysed their sources in a 2012 report.

A source could be determined for only a small proportion of the guns. Of those, theft was the most common, accounting for 39 per cent of the handguns, and 10 per cent of seized rifles and shotguns.

Less than 2 per cent of long-barrel guns and between 4 and 17 per cent of handguns had been smuggled into Australia.

However, the report said the large proportion of guns whose source could not be determined limited the conclusions that could be drawn about who originally owned the guns and whether they had been illegally imported.

The report also could not say whether or not the guns had been used to commit a crime.

Legal guns that became illegal

By far the biggest category of seized rifles and shotguns from the trace database - 88 per cent - were those whose source could not be determined.

These were guns that should have been registered or surrendered after law reforms in 1996.

The reforms were introduced after the Port Arthur massacre, when a National Firearms Agreement was implemented to standardise gun registration in the different states and territories, and the people licensed to own and use them.

Dr Bricknell said in her report that some owners deliberately disobeyed the new rules, but in some cases the guns had been misplaced, lost or forgotten about.

No-one knows whether these guns are owned by licensed or unlicensed owners.

An example of the lack of data can be found in a review into the 2014 Martin Place siege, which said it was possible that the sawn-off pump action shotgun used by Man Haron Monis was imported legally to Australia in the 1950s.

At the time there was no requirement for the importer to register it, or for the owner to have a permit to use it, so it was possible the gun was not handed in during the buyback and therefore "may have been invisible to authorities since its importation," the review said.

The Crime Commission's national manager of intelligence, John Moss, gave the Senate inquiry an example of a woman who handed in a semi-automatic pistol to a Queensland police station in October 2014.

The commission traced the gun and found it had been manufactured in 1937 and last seen in 1940.

"It was delivered to the Queensland police station functional - 75 years later - with no data existing in our systems across the nation," Dr Moss said.

The size of the illegal market

The Institute of Criminology's study shows that guns not surrendered or registered in 1996 are a potentially large source of guns that fall into the hands of criminals.

In 2012, the Crime Commission assessed the illegal firearms market in response to shootings in Western Sydney and Adelaide.

Data on 3,186 guns from the National Firearm Trace Database was used, along with data from the US online firearm tracing system.

The full report wasn't made public but key data was released by Jason Clare, then police and justice minister.

It found:

There were 2.75 million registered guns in Australia held by 730,000 licence holders
Conservatively estimated there were 250,000 long barrel guns and 10,000 handguns in the illegal firearms market. Guns in the illegal market stayed in circulation for decades - the oldest traced gun was a functioning revolver manufactured in 1888

Like the institute's study, the commission's report showed that theft was a greater source of illegal guns than those illegally imported, and by far the biggest source was guns not surrendered or registered in 1996.

http://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/6490420/data/guns-chart-data.jpg
INFOGRAPHIC: This chart shows the origin of firearms seized by Australian state and federal police. (ABC Fact Check)

The report signed by Senator McKenzie did not accept the commission's estimate that there were 250,000 long barrel guns and 10,000 handguns held illegally in the community.

It criticised the sample size and pointed to a statement in Mr Clare's media release that for a third of requested traces, there was insufficient information to work out where they came from.

The report Senator McKenzie signed also said: "One of the difficulties encountered by this inquiry has been the inability of the committee to ascertain, with any degree of certainty, where the majority of the illicit guns originate and the size of the illegal gun market."

Stolen guns used in crime

Unlicensed guns stolen from licensed owners is one possible source of illegal guns.

When Fact Check asked Senator McKenzie for the basis of her claim, her office responded with information presented to the Senate inquiry and highlighted data from the Institute of Criminology's National Firearm Theft Monitoring Program.

The institute's report, Firearm Theft in Australia, showed that 1,545 firearms were reported stolen between 2004-05 and 2008-09.

Ninety per cent were registered and nearly 90 per cent of the people who reported the thefts held the appropriate licence for the stolen gun.

Only 3 per cent (10 incidents and 51 firearms) of guns stolen were then used in a crime or were found in possession of someone charged with a serious offence.

However, the report noted that data on all variables was not provided by the Northern Territory, and Western Australia did not provide data for 2008-09.

Dr Bricknell said the data did not include thefts that owners chose not to report because the gun was not registered, or because the owner was not licensed.

The Institute of Criminology's deputy director Rick Brown told the inquiry: "We really do not know how many of those that are stolen subsequently get used for the purposes of organised crime. We have no way of estimating that."

The bottom line

The Crime Commission told the inquiry that "theft remains a primary method of diverting firearms to the illicit market".

There was "some evidence" of illegal importing, "although ACC data indicate that these comprise a small proportion of all firearms diverted into the black market," it said.

The Australian Federal Police took a similar view.

Assistant Commissioner Julian Slater told the committee: "Certainly the data I have seen recently in relation to thefts are numbers that are substantially greater than what we are seeing seized at the border."

However, neither authority specified that these guns had necessarily been used in crimes.

Fact Check could not find any study that comprehensively addresses the claim made by Senator McKenzie.

Crime Commission and Institute of Criminology studies show that theft accounts for more guns seized by police than illegal importation, but these studies don't show whether the stolen guns came from licensed owners, nor whether they were used to commit a crime.

In addition, a large number of illegal guns are in circulation that used to be legally held, but there's no way of knowing whether they are in the hands of licensed or unlicensed owners.

The institute's National Firearm Theft Monitoring Program shows that only 3 per cent of guns stolen from licensed firearm owners are used to commit crime, but it includes few unlicensed guns, whose theft is usually not reported.

The verdict

Senator McKenzie's claim that most guns used to commit a crime are illegally imported rather than coming from licensed gun owners can't be verified by data.

The Senate inquiry report she herself signed emphasises the uncertainty of the number and sources of illegal guns.

Her claim is baseless.

[starmac]

Sure hard to belive that some folks held out when they were asked to turn in their guns. And even harder to belive that new ones keep showing up on an island.

15,000 bucks for an ordinary hand gun, That is the unbeliveable part.

[Plate plinker]

Same as Class III here government sanctioned shortage.

[starnbar]

[QUOTE=starmac;3384781]Sure hard to belive that some folks held out when they were asked to turn in their guns. No its not did you see when the Brits told the IRA to turn in their weapons all they got was a bunch of junk rifles and shotguns and it was a joke.

[Col4570]

[QUOTE=starmac;3384781]Sure hard to belive that some folks held out when they were asked to turn in their guns. No its not did you see when the Brits told the IRA to turn in their weapons all they got was a bunch of junk rifles and shotguns and it was a joke.
It was not a Joke to us in the UK,the IRA are a bunch of murderers financed by Drug Dealing.Forget the romantic view,they are crooks.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I do remember reading what one man said about the gun grab in Australia. He turned in a beautiful Kriegoff Luger his father brought back from WWII. I would have hid the gun even if I never got to shoot it.

[Hickory]

Words from a German prisoner to my dad;
"No matter what the pretext or excuse given to the people of you country by its leaders, don't never give up your guns. On that day you will become slaves to the state."

[Hogtamer]

Yes Hickory.

[perotter]

[QUOTE=starmac;3384781]Sure hard to belive that some folks held out when they were asked to turn in their guns. No its not did you see when the Brits told the IRA to turn in their weapons all they got was a bunch of junk rifles and shotguns and it was a joke.

Of course being Irish they wrote nice little song about it, 'Stick Your Decommission Up Your xxx'. Lately they have have been making guns and the young guys training.

[shooter93]

Now who would have ever thought that banning an object would ever lead to an illegal black market for that item?.....idiots.

[dragon813gt]

Now who would have ever thought that banning an object would ever lead to an illegal black market for that item?.....idiots.

Well in fairness there is no past history of something like this happening.......

[44man]

I have nothing but love and respect for our Aussie friends but they gave it up to the government instead of tossing them. Same as England. Now they let Islam in to take over. Obumbler doing the same. 20,000 terrorists let in! War will be on the streets and you need guns.

[Col4570]

[QUOTE=44man;3386558]I have nothing but love and respect for our Aussie friends but they gave it up to the government instead of tossing them. Same as England. Now they let Islam in to take over. Obumbler doing the same. 20,000 terrorists let in! War will be on the streets and you need guns.[/QUOTE.
Shooting is alive and well here in the UK.No Pistols though.

[Artful]

Shooting is alive and well here in the UK.No Pistols though.

So your still shooting SLR/FAL's and AR15's and all the other full and semi auto rifles?

[Col4570]

So your still shooting SLR/FAL's and AR15's and all the other full and semi auto rifles?
No Just Bolt Actions and single shot Rifles and derivatives of Modern Rifles adapted to Fire single shot,Mags are allowed and rapid fire can be achieved,.22LR Autos are still allowed.Semi Auto Shotguns if held on a Shotgun Certificate must be restricted to Two shot,if they are held on a firearm Certificate they can have a Magazine to whatever the design is.The Club I am a member of has up to 500 yards range and an Indoor Range,there are other Ranges Bisley etc that cater for 1000 plus yards.My own passion is shooting Black Powder rifles,Sharps,Rolling Blocks and Muzzleloaders such as Pattern53 Enfields,Whitworth Rifles,American Long Rifles,Hawkens etc,some of which I have built from scratch..Many members go Stalking for Deer.I also enjoy Clay Shooting with both Modern and Antique Guns.Weekends where I live we have a selection of Clay shooting Grounds to chose from.Hope this gives you a picture of shooting here in the UK.
Best Regards.

[starmac]

So your still shooting SLR/FAL's and AR15's and all the other full and semi auto rifles?

We have states right here in the good old U.S. of A. that is pretty tough on these types of firearms too.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Words from a German prisoner to my dad;
"No matter what the pretext or excuse given to the people of you country by its leaders, don't never give up your guns. On that day you will become slaves to the state."

But the Germans hadn't given up their guns. Nazi Germany had a very reasonable law on the ownership of firearms, including pistols. There wasn't even any clause saying you had to be a gentile. I don't suppose they got many Jews applying. It is how many of the people want extremist politics, and how many of the people accept killing people, that really counts.

[OnHoPr]

Are the Red Coats coming there? I thought that they and NZ were part of some sort of commonwealth to Britain. Didn't Aussie land just vote , I can't remember, the 2000 era, about going independent from Britain. Did Piers Morgan move there?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

[QUOTE=starnbar;3384806]
It was not a Joke to us in the UK,the IRA are a bunch of murderers financed by Drug Dealing.Forget the romantic view,they are crooks.

They were financed and supplied by Irish-Americans in the early days, until the US government clamped down both on doing so, and on the ability to keep automatic weapons off the record in the USA. The IRA used to have a joke that some would fight while others just sang in pubs about it. But the fact is that Northern Ireland in the worst of times never reached the murder rate found in the similarly sized city of Detroit, because more would have alienated even their own section of the community. The thirty-year average was slightly less than the overall US murder rate. A peace settlement, in which they got nothing like what they expected, has cut occasional gangsterism and score-settling to a small fraction of that. I saw the inventory and pictures of the firearms turned in for decommissioning, and their being unserviceable is just another internet fantasy.

Of course it is unfortunate that the Australian shooting community have lost some of their rights, in a manner as emotionally significant to them as the rights homosexuals or feminists have gained. We should probably look on it, as certainly we can in the UK, that a greater aversion to killing people has led to both gun control and a lower murder rate, rather than the last two being cause and effect.

But although $15,000 is probably an exceptional price for an illicit gun, the most unbelievable thing in this situation, if anybody is seriously suggesting it, is that illegal import has anything to do with harmless gun owners trying to preserve their rights. They aren't venturing into criminal company flourishing large wads of notes, and they can't be unaware that illicit gunrunning is a dangerous calling, but police informer is a safe one. This trade exists, on a considerable if undeterminable scale, and it is about enabling dangerous criminals to become more dangerous criminals. Here is another case:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/05/steven-greenoe-gun-smuggling-trial

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Are the Red Coats coming there? I thought that they and NZ were part of some sort of commonwealth to Britain. Didn't Aussie land just vote , I can't remember, the 2000 era, about going independent from Britain. Did Piers Morgan move there?

We may have overestimated the impact of the internet on man's right to have an opinion without knowing a thing about the subject.

[Artful]

But the Germans hadn't given up their guns. Nazi Germany had a very reasonable law on the ownership of firearms, including pistols. There wasn't even any clause saying you had to be a gentile. I don't suppose they got many Jews applying. It is how many of the people want extremist politics, and how many of the people accept killing people, that really counts.

Ah, as I remember my history lessons after WW1 and disarmament of German Military by Treaty of Versailles, the German legislature in 1919 passed a law that effectively banned all private firearm possession by civilians, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation. And 1928, the Reichstag relaxed the regulation a bit as far as ownership, but put in place a strict registration regime that required citizens to acquire separate permits to own guns, sell them or carry them. And Hitler in 1938 put in the law that did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns.

Oops, forgot one
[/COLOR]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_legislation_in_Germany

On August 7, 1920, rising fears whether or not Germany could have rebellions prompted the government to enact a second gun-regulation law called the Law on the Disarmament of the People. It put into effect the provisions of the Versailles Treaty in regard to the limit on military-type weapons.
Which in 1920 would be bolt action repeaters I would think.

http://www.infowars.com/yes-hitler-really-did-take-the-guns-before-throwing-jews-into-concentration-camps-or-gas-chambers/

[Ballistics in Scotland]

But in 1920 wouldn't be Nazi Germany's law. A lot of discriminatory laws were introduced around 1938, when the Nazis stopped pretending, but I have seen the version of he early or mid 30s.

[Artful]

True, the Nazi party only had 3 percent of the vote in the 1924 elections of the Reichstag. It took the economic collapse to give the Nazi party it's power. Before the economic depression struck, the Nazis were practically unknown and considered a fringe party.

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf


It begins with an account of post-World War I chaos.
Germany’s defeat in World War I heralded the demise of the Second Reich and the birth of the Weimar republic.

For several years thereafter, civil unrest and chaos ensued. Government forces, buttressed by unofficial Freikorps (Free Corps), battled Communists in the streets.

The most spectacular event was the crushing of the Spartacist revolt in Berlin and other cities in January 1919, when Freikorps members captured and murdered the Communist leaders Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht. This coincided with the passage of the Verordnung des Rates der Volksbeauftragen über Waffenbesitz (Regulations of the Council of the People’s
Delegates on Weapons Possession), which provided: “All firearms, as well as all kinds of firearms ammunition, are to be surrendered immediately.”

Whoever kept a firearm or ammunition was subject to imprisonment for five years and a fine of 100,000 marks. That decree would remain in force until repealed in 1928.

When the enactment in 1928 by the liberal Weimar republic of Germany’s first comprehensive gun control law. The Gesetz über Schußwaffen und Munition (Law on Firearms and Ammunition) required a license to manufacture, assemble, or repair firearms and
ammunition, or even to reload cartridges. A license was also required to sell firearms as a trade. Trade in firearms was prohibited at annual fairs, shooting competitions, and other events.

Acquisition of a firearm or ammunition required a Waffen oder Munitionserwerbscheins (license to obtain a weapon or ammunition) from the police.

The requirement applied to both commercial sales and private transfers. It did not apply to transfer of a firearm or ammunition to a shooting range licensed by the police for sole use at the range.

Exempt were “authorities of the Reich” and various
government entities.

Carrying a firearm required a Waffenschein (license to carry a weapon). The issuing authority had complete discretion to limit its validity to a specific occasion or
locality. “Licenses to obtain or to carry firearms shall only be issued to persons whose reliability is not in doubt, and only after proving a need for them.”

Licenses were automatically denied to “gypsies, and to persons wandering around like gypsies”; persons with convictions under various listed laws, including this law (i.e.,the 1928 Gesetz) and the 1920 Law on the Disarming of the Population; and “persons for whom police surveillance has been declared admissible, or upon whom the loss of civil rights has been imposed, for the duration of the police surveillance or the loss of
civil rights.”

The above categories of persons who were disqualified from obtaining an acquisition or carry license were prohibited from possession of a firearm or ammunition.

Persons not entitled to possess firearms were ordered to surrender them immediately. Further, a license was required to possess a firearms or ammunition “arsenal,” which was defined as more than five firearms of the same type or more than 100 cartridges. (These quantities would have been very low for collectors or target competitors.)

Also included in the definition was more than ten hunting arms or more than 1000 hunting cartridges. Licenses were available only to “persons of Unquestioned trustworthiness.”

It was forbidden to manufacture or possess firearms which are adapted for “rapid disassembly beyond the generally usual extent for hunting and sporting
purposes.”

Firearms with silencers or spotlights were prohibited.
The penalty for willfully or negligently violating the provisions of the law related to the carrying of a firearm was up to three-years imprisonment and a fine.

The same penalty applied to anyone who inherited a firearm or ammunition from a deceased person and failed to report it in a timely manner. Three years imprisonment was also the penalty for whoever deliberately or negligently failed to prevent a
violation of the law by a member of his household under 20 years of age.

Other violations of the law or implementing regulations were punishable with fines and unspecified terms of imprisonment.

The new law was passed on April 12, but did not take effect until October 1,1928. On the effective date, the 1919 law requiring immediate surrender of all firearms
and ammunition would be repealed. That would allow over six months for compliance with the new law while leaving the more draconian but widely ignored law
on the books for the same period.

Next, the Nazi seizure of power in 1933 was consolidated by massive searches and seizures of
firearms from political opponents, who were invariably described as “communists.”

After five years of repression and eradication of dissidents, Hitler signed a new gun control law in 1938, which benefitted Nazi party members and entities, but denied firearm ownership to enemies of the state.

Later that year, in Kristallnacht (the Night of the Broken Glass), in one fell swoop, the Nazi regime disarmed Germany’s Jews.

Without any ability to defend themselves, the Jewish population could easily be sent to concentration camps for the Final Solution. After World War II began, Nazi
authorities continued to register and mistrust civilian firearm owners, and German resistance to the Nazi regime was unsuccessful.

[OnHoPr]

We may have overestimated the impact of the internet on man's right to have an opinion without knowing a thing about the subject.

Well BS, I might not be one of those college educated history buffs that play on Jeopardy and watch the idiot tube all the time, but I have seen a few things in my life. I know that AU was a penal colony for Britain and in a land the size 3,000,000 sq mi and being a few hundred years old that they are still under developed. I also know the Britain's GNP has been declining for decades. I know that Britain went back to Britain in the late 1700's. I also know that Britain was confiscating arms back before the Revolutionary war here in the US. I also know that Britain buys F35's an American Product. Though many generals dismissed it as being good, especially the ones that were about to retire and thinking about getting news correspondence jobs. Most of all this is accompanied by a couple of factions of people that used the same methods that they are now disabling to get to the highest offices in somebody else's government even if it takes a century to do it with the mask of college educated peoples of word that couldn't put a tree between the sidewalk in the curve in their own country.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You are perfectly entitled to have a grudge against educated people if you want one.

[Geezer in NH]

Lets see Main Stream Media , Totalitarian Police and Government, can you say STAGED!!