480 Bisley and the end of the Poor Boy Trigger Job

[lar45]

Hi, everybody
I just picked up a 5 shot 480 Bisley yesterday.
149313


I haven't shot it yet. But did pick up some 480 brass and still have to load some.
The trigger is long and gritty.
I put a new set of grips on it and lifted one of the trigger spring legs for the poor-boy trigger job and the loading gate would not open. When I put the spring back in place, there was a click and it would open again. I tried it on both sides and had the same thing.
I'll post more after I get some ammo loaded and shoot it.

[sixshot]

Remember there's two springs on there for a reason. The poor man's trigger job as some people call it will not make a good trigger out of a bad trigger. Yes, it will lighten a trigger but the only way to get a good trigger is to have a good gunsmith do a quality trigger job on it. You get what you pay for.

Dick

[dubber123]

Rugers are not hard to work on at all. If you are ham fisted, by all means take it to a GOOD smith. A 2# creep free trigger on a Ruger without changing a single spring is not hard to do.

I like the grips, that should be a very nice field gun when you are done. Enjoy!

[historicfirearms]

Man those are nice grips, mind sharing where you got them?

One thing you can do on that trigger spring is to bend both of the legs up a bit. This will relieve some tension.

[siamese4570]

Got the same gun in 45LC. My trigger has a problem similar to yours. Check to see if when you cock the hammer and pull the trigger, the trigger comes all the way forward when released. If it does not, it will lock the loading gate.
Siamese4570

[Richard_Otto]

Hi, everybody
I just picked up a 5 shot 480 Bisley yesterday.
149313


I haven't shot it yet. But did pick up some 480 brass and still have to load some.
The trigger is long and gritty.
I put a new set of grips on it and lifted one of the trigger spring legs for the poor-boy trigger job and the loading gate would not open. When I put the spring back in place, there was a click and it would open again. I tried it on both sides and had the same thing.
I'll post more after I get some ammo loaded and shoot it.

Did your dealer just get your 480? Just trying to find out if ruger is currently shiping these?
thanks
RO

[chuckbuster]

Look up triggershims dot com for any easy inexpensive fix to most of your trigger issues. Lance is Great guy to work with.

Also curious on the .480 Delivery, I am on the list at my local dealer.
Kevin

[doc1876]

My .44 sp Lipseys did the same thing, and I sent it back to Ruger. They fixed it, and I also asked them to work on the long creep in the trigger, and they did that too. I have shot it for months, and haven't opened it up to see what they did, but it works, so as with all Rugers, I don't take them apart unless I absolutely have to. I would recommend sending it back.

[DougGuy]

I just use the Wolff 30oz. spring from Brownell's. It doesn't get rid of the creep but it makes it a LOT easier to live with. My short barreled Vaquero acts like a dbl set trigger. It takes up the creep then it stops, the next micro-newton of energy your finger presses on the trigger fires the gun. It's VERY consistent and I wouldn't change it for nothing.

[lar45]

Midway for the grips
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1151443609/hogue-cowboy-grips-ruger-vaquero-bisley?cm_vc=ProductFinding
I have the Ebony ones on another Bisley and like the look of it.

I went with a buddy to a store that had been able to get special order things before and Lipseys told him that they were already allocated, so he didn't know if he'd be able to get them or not.

I then went on Gunbroker and found this one and clicked the buy it now button.

The trigger was not returning all the way forward, just as you said, and that is what was tying the loading gate up. I have a pile of Rugers and BFRs and this is the first time I've had a problem with one. I did notice that the trigger spring is shaped differently. The long legs that come back under the grip panel have a dogleg in them now.

There was a nasty burr on the trigger sear surface, so I polished it off. I'm working on the long creep now. Stone abit and check it... I don't want to do too much all at once.

[dubber123]

I've done quite a few Rugers, and depending upon what you want, I usually start with a 50% reduction in the depth of the hammer notch. This in conjunction with stoning the mill marks off the sear surfaces and re-bending the legs on the trigger return spring will be a great start, usually in the 3# range, which you can fine tune from. The dogleg in the return spring is interesting, maybe Ruger has finally figured out you don't need a 50 pound spring to kick a 1 ounce trigger back.. :) Good luck with your new shooter, it should be a dandy.

[str8wal]

I just use the Wolff 30oz. spring from Brownell's. It doesn't get rid of the creep but it makes it a LOT easier to live with......

I also installed a reduced power spring in mine and it made all the difference in the world. There is a little creep, which I will remove one day, but it is smooth and light.

[44man]

Dog leg is normal where it goes over the pin. I take it that is what you see. I re bend the factory springs but you need trigger reset. I use 26# hammer springs in all of my SA's but am able to get 1-1/2# trigger pulls with zero creep. My 45-70 is 19 oz.
Beware with Ruger's and BFR's, the transfer bar can drop off the firing pin creating a hang fire or failure. I make my own transfer bar that is longer at the top. I can get away with my trigger kicking forward at trigger break but don't go there. Most bars are too short and depend on the trigger coming back to keep it up on the firing pin. My 45-70 bar is actually above the entire firing pin at full cock. It takes know how to fit one.
If you want to have fun, make a transfer bar by hand from tool steel, harden and temper it. My .44 is going strong after 80,000 heavy loads and uncounted light loads. The trigger kicks forward but has never failed.
Dubber is right, 50% reduction for creep. I got so good I put the hammer on my tool grinder to get rid of it.

[lar45]

The dog leg is about halfway up between the pivot pin and the pin for the legs to go over.

149562

[white eagle]

Sweet Bisley is all I can say

[dubber123]

The dog leg is about halfway up between the pivot pin and the pin for the legs to go over.

149562

That is different. That should add, not subtract power from the return spring. Odd.

[44man]

It is there to hook over the pin. Just to keep it in place. ALL Ruger's and BFR's have the same. Leave the leg alone but you can form the rest of the spring to lighten the pull. The end at the trigger can be made better for less friction.

[dubber123]

It is there to hook over the pin. Just to keep it in place. ALL Ruger's and BFR's have the same. Leave the leg alone but you can form the rest of the spring to lighten the pull. The end at the trigger can be made better for less friction.

Thats not the bend he's talking about, look at the upper edge of the grip frame opening. There is a second bend I don't ever remember seeing, not the one that hooks over the pin.

[lar45]

It is there to hook over the pin. Just to keep it in place. ALL Ruger's and BFR's have the same. Leave the leg alone but you can form the rest of the spring to lighten the pull. The end at the trigger can be made better for less friction.

Click on the picture to zoom in on it.
The spring comes out horizontally, then takes a 45 degree bend down towards the hammer spring, then at the end it has the final hook to go over the pin.

[44man]

OK, I see it. the grip frame is different and the trigger needs more pressure for function. Still based on trigger travel to keep the bar over the pin. On a hog leg I bend the other way.
The entire transfer bar system is to raise the bar over the pin as you pull the trigger and is why trigger springs are strong enough. They depend on the trigger going back and the bar rising.
I beat that with my transfer bars.

[44man]

Some time ago I told Brownell's about it. Then a bar was brought out but nothing is said about length at all. The price is unreal so if it is not right, why spend the money? If it covers more of the pin, they should say so. If longer it will take fitting to work. You need to know your stuff. The ledges on the hammers need to be figured in. If not right the bar can be slammed into the frame above the pin.

[telebasher]

I think that's to compensate for the lower geometry of the Bisley frame, the plowhandle flattop 44 has the standard straight return spring. Just using the same basic spring with a slight modification.

[44man]

I think that's to compensate for the lower geometry of the Bisley frame, the plowhandle flattop 44 has the standard straight return spring. Just using the same basic spring with a slight modification.
That is true.

[shorty500M]

Been shooting the Ruger Bisley since 1st came out in the 80's this NEW bend in spring is EXACTLY that NEW! Aint found out any reasoning behind it yet though

[dubber123]

Been shooting the Ruger Bisley since 1st came out in the 80's this NEW bend in spring is EXACTLY that NEW! Aint found out any reasoning behind it yet though

I've had, (and have) a few Bisley Rugers. I haven't seen this second bend before now. If the rest of the spring geometry hasn't changed, that second bend will only ADD spring pressure to the already oversprung trigger return spring.

[shorty500M]

i've had, (and have) a few bisley rugers. I haven't seen this second bend before now. If the rest of the spring geometry hasn't changed, that second bend will only add spring pressure to the already oversprung trigger return spring.
exactly!!!

[44man]

It is a lawyer thing after all. Ruger wants you to keep pulling so the bar rises and I don't blame them. They want you to be safe but I have beat their game!
I have seen many bars that do not even cover half the pin so you MUST pull the trigger.
I don't think many have seen a 19 oz trigger that is reliable.149702 This is my .44 bar and my 45-70 BFR is even higher.
Cock the hammer and look how high the bar is, THAT will dictate how light you can make the trigger.
Don't fool around and get a hang fire or failure. I love the Ruger system and understand it. The transfer bar is hooked to the trigger. Maybe I am the only one ever to make a transfer bar to beat the lawyers but I dare not send my guns to the factory for anything without putting it back to factory first.

[44man]

I had one break for a friend and learned something. It did not fit quite right so I heated a portion to form it. NO, NEVER do that without hardening and tempering the whole bar. It MUST be done all over. Harsh lesson after all the work. My .44 has run over 80,000 rounds. Never a failure.
We make mistakes to learn from after all.
My mistakes are sold by 55 gal barrels.

[Blackwater]

Ruger SA's are so simple, and the concepts so elemental, that I really don't see why some are so reluctant to go inside one and get their triggers up to snuff. It DOES require some good eyesight, good judgment, and some discretion, but those aren't that difficult to apply either, and those who'll DO those things will be richly rewarded for their efforts. Just concentrate on the judgment part, and go slowly until you gain real understanding and confidence in your work. Stoning the sear surface to get them smooth really isn't difficult, nor is it beyond the ability of the average person with good dexterity and sense of "feel" in his hands. Just go lightly and slow, and you'll actually find Ruger SA's and similar pretty easy to work on. The timid might best leave it to a 'smith, of course, but the timid don't usually learn a lot, either, so ... take your pick. Just use a VERY fine stone. Even worn 600 grit wet or dry through 2000 grit with a good, sharp edged popsickle stick will work. You just have to use a very light touch, take care NOT to round off the top of the sear's edge, and JUST remove the tool marks to get rid of the "grit" in the trigger. Slow and careful will get there. Faster, "down and dirty" approaches will likely lead to having to get new hammers and/or triggers. A little polish on the side bearing surfaces helps keep it consistent, too.

There's really no excuse for a Ruger NOT having a great trigger pull. Just be VERY careful not to reduce the pull TOO much! My Ruger SB's trigger is probably too light for me these days, but I hate even thinking about changing it. I just have to remember to be VERY careful where it's pointed, but that's basic gun safety anyway, so .... I'll likely not heavy it up any. For long range shooting, it's a real beaut, and an aid in shooting my best. Learning to follow through with that long, heavy hammer fall, and a good, firm grip, and it's amazing what a Super B can really do! Other calibers can amaze as well.

Handguns are the least powerful and most difficult to shoot accurately guns there are. That we don't seem to realize that, and just take them "as is," and don't even TRY to make them more shootable, simply leaves us at not much past the tyro level, usually. It takes a LOT more talent to shoot a SA well when it's got a heavy, gritty or inconsistent trigger. You've GOT to know EXACTLY when it's going to go off.

And LAR, I'm green with envy for your new gun! Great buy, and I like those grips a lot. Ya' done good! REAL good!

[44man]

Does not do better to get to extremes with 2000 grit. Only need a ceramic triangle stone. I DO cut the sharp edge from the sear surface with the stone. No sense to leave a wire edge there. One swipe with the ceramic stone is enough.
I love light triggers even for hunting. You learn control with the best. There is no reason to have a 5# or more for hunting. Hunting demands the most precision you can get. I would work better with a 1/2# trigger on deer. Different if you wear a huge glove and try to stick it into the guard. I shoot bare hand and keep my hand in a pocket to stay warm. The day I would hunt with a 20# trigger is NEVER.
To say a trigger is good for hunting means you are pulling and pulling or you just mash the trigger.
I can make a trigger so light with a Colt, lighter then a Ruger without hitting the half cock or safety notch. Can anyone tell how I do it? I can also do it with the old pre transfer bar Ruger.

[Richard_Otto]

I picked up my 480 Bisley Last night and the trigger spring looks like they always have! Don't know why yours is bent like that, if it were mine I would bend it to look like a normal one and see how that works!
RO

[Markbo]

Why hasnt anyone posted a how-to with pics if its so darned easy?

[dubber123]

Why hasnt anyone posted a how-to with pics if its so darned easy?

In my case because I am just about smart enough to post, and have no means of downloading pics. The way I do them is to reduce the hammer notch by 50%, you may want more off, I usually do, but this is where I start. If you are nervous, take less off, but you will want to reduce it to get rid of the long pull and make the pull "crisper". Stone all tool marks off the hammer and trigger sear while maintaing factory angles with a fine triangle stone. Look at how the trigger return spring works, and rebend the legs to produce less power. This should easily put you in the 3 pound range, without having to put a soggy, weak mainspring in. I have gone to 1.75 pounds on a few with total satisfaction and safety. The hammers are not hard, a file cuts them easily for bulk metal removal.

[lar45]

Richard, how is the trigger on yours?
Did I just get a bad one? Maybe it was put together on a Friday and the guy just wanted to hurry and get done.

I've been too busy to do any load work up for it yet, but started today with some Herc 2400 and 415 LFNs. 16 gns was a 100% load, at 1.640" , and only gave around 1000fps-ish. At 50 yds it shot about 7" high with the rear sight bottomed out. So it looks like I'll probably have to get the taller front sight for it. I'll try some 296 next and see if I can get more velocity out of it.

[Richard_Otto]

Hey lar45, my trigger is fairly nice, I may take it down and do a little stoning and clean it up a little bit. I have not shot mine yet but I will this week!