Toilet bowl rings

[paralaska]

Got a couple of wax toilet bowl rings from the free box at a garage sale. I've heard that these are mostly beeswax and can be used for bullet lube. There is nothing on the box that says what they are made
Of . . . They seemed a little soft to me, so I was thinking maybe add some paraffin and try it. Does anybody have any experience using them or knowledge or a formula for using them?
Thanks . . .

[Beagle333]

The really old ones were real beeswax, but the newer ones are synthetic. Do the boxes look old?
Are the rings the same color as beeswax (almost like honey?)
Are they hard? Real beeswax is about as hard as paraffin at room temp.

[Yodogsandman]

The old, used rings make crappy boolit lube!

[paralaska]

New in box, Fluidmaster wax ring, made in Mexico, date on box 02/13. They seem a little gooey to me, not nearly as hard as my bees wax . . . Kinda the consistency of hard stick butter from the fridge . . . Darker than beeswax, but same honey tone, like mixed with a dark grease . . .

[fryboy]

he meant the "really really old ones " were primarily beeswax ( many many winters ago - not many moons ago )

they can be used in lube but ...they're not always the same eg; some stuff added to what ever cheap base they use next time may not be the same as the last time , so ... if you do manage to make the best lube ever it's very possible that you'll never be able to duplicate it once that supply is gone , most suggest to consider it as a slightly stiffer form of vaseline , i use them in my version of pearl lube ( i call it pearl lube plus ;) ) works ok up to mid-range for me but is/was primarily designed as a black powder lube , beeswax perhaps would be a bit better than paraffin but eh if it's what you got ... your weather is a wee bit cooler than mine so you may have to add something to it for flex/tack and you'll prolly have to play with the ratio for your weather

[Beagle333]

Yep, that's what I meant. 2013 isn't even old and surely doesn't qualify for really old.

Order some of the real stuff from RandyRat. He's cheap and his wax is nice and clean and you'll get repeatable results from your lube recipe every time you make it. 8-)

[DeputyDog25]

I have used the really old ones which were found in my grandpa's basement, probably about 20 years old or more and they worked like a charm.

[toallmy]

I tried the newer ones. Thay did not work very well as lube but I use as a flux when melting down a batch of scrap lead . More like petroleum oil flamed up and smokes but coats the melt well .

[Reg]

I made up a batch a few years back using a toilet bowel ring just to see if it would work as I had been told it wouldn't. Worked like a champ. Try it. So far you are out little.

[Teddy (punchie)]

The old, used rings make crappy boolit lube!

LOL, LOL just funny at 6:30

[Geezer in NH]

The old, used rings make crappy boolit lube!:killingpc:groner::kidding:

[Hardcast416taylor]

I used them for their designed purpose, and bought beeswax to use for its intended lube purpose.Robert

[azrednek]

This subject came up years ago. A poster replied that he was involved with the manufacture of toilet bowl rings. He claimed the modern wax rings use powdered Styrofoam in the mix and discouraged their use.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Hmm, I had seem somewhere that they were mostly Alox. Wouldn't surprise me if the oldies were beeswax.

[Dusty Bannister]

One description of the infamous toilet bowl wax ring.

http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/archives_turning.pl/bid/2107/md/read/id/168172/sbj/beeswax-toilet-ring/

[fiberoptik]

The old, used rings make crappy boolit lube!

That's cuz ya spozed ta remove brown chunks in the middle....

[Pumpkinheaver]

The new ones don't make very good lube, at least when I tried it. I use them to coat a rifles action when bedding so the action will not stick to the bedding compound. Works great for that.

[GaryN]

The old, used rings make crappy boolit lube!

Yes, urine trouble if you try this.

[rbuck351]

I have used it and it works fine for low speed pistol boolits like 45acp, 38spl and such but almost anything works for those.

[Elkins45]

I'm testing a lube right now that is bowl ring wax, Ivory soap and castor oil. Toilet bowl rings are made of slack wax these days and it can stand the heat required to fully melt Ivory soap into a gel. I can tell you it flows thru a sizer great and it isn't very tacky at room temperature but I won't know how it shoots until my next range trip.

[David Caldwell]

I have great success with that very product. I usually add 20 to 25 per cent beeswax from Randyrat, but it works well by itself if you wipe the bullet base, seat lube grooves in neck, and don't leave cartridges in a hot car. Pistols or rifles. Try it; I'll bet you're pleased.

[pls1911]

I have a good supply of old lube bout on the cheap from retiring shooters. It's various colors usually hard, and I must have a shoebox full at least.
I cut it about 30% with wax bowl material to softebn it a little and it flows though a heated luber quite nicely.
I don't know about mega magnums, but it works fine on pistols and 30-30 rounds up to 2000 fps.
I have no idea what the final composition is.
I call it "whatchagot" lube, because what I got gets loaded... when at the parting line between sticks, my lube grooves appear to be Tuti-fruiti...
However, I've found it makes no difference to pigs.

[cajun shooter]

A lube made to work and a lube to wring out the smallest group possible are many shots apart. The rings made today are made in China and if that does not put up any red flags for you, then you are just looking for a lube that makes the bullet exit the barrel.
If you are a serious shooter and want to have the best you can work with, then take the time to use good products. Randy Rat sells some very good bees wax from American Bees and it will serve you well. Later David

[Wolfer]

Before I started keeping bees I used one Johnny bowl ring to one cake of parrifin. Worked great in my 45 colt and 44 spl.

Virtually anything will work in these and similar calibers.

[Taylor]

I 2nd Randy,good wax,good price.You can't beat it.

[6bg6ga]

They seem to work with soy wax to make a usable product.

[jbltwin1]

I used a dab not too long ago to flux my lead melt. Thought that stuff would NEVER stop smoking. Mike.

[mold maker]

Of course the wax rings made in China, are likely to contain most anything they want to get rid of, for what ever reason. The rings made here, many years ago, said " Bees Wax" on the label. The latest MSDS I read said "Slack wax", which is a cheap byproduct of refining crude.
I know plumbers that now wear rubber gloves to handle them, and I doubt its just to keep clean hands.
As cheap and easy as it is to get quality Randy's Bees Wax, the question is, WHY?

[okshooter]

I looked into this recently after reading about making felt wads and a poster stated he had used one pound Crisco and one bee's wax ring to soak his felt prior to punching out the wads. I could not find any made of bee's wax and if I drilled down far enough on sites like Home Depot and the descriptions of the Oatley brand, I found them to be petroleum wax.

[badge176]

Pun intended?!

[Wayne Smith]

A lube made to work and a lube to wring out the smallest group possible are many shots apart. The rings made today are made in China and if that does not put up any red flags for you, then you are just looking for a lube that makes the bullet exit the barrel.
If you are a serious shooter and want to have the best you can work with, then take the time to use good products. Randy Rat sells some very good bees wax from American Bees and it will serve you well. Later David

True nuff, David, but I think Randy's wax is from Canadian bees?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

hey ok shooter,i am from sand springs.... could be neighbors,, but to get to the point ,if I used 1.5 toilet ring wax, a third of that wt. in paraffin, 2tbsmineral oil, 2tbs carnuba,2tbs ivory soap, theres no chance of damage to my bore? or just my accuracy?

[runfiverun]

it won't hurt your barrel.
the carnuba is gonna make things umm brittle keep it closer to 3-4%.
now to get the ivory in solution you have to have the oils heated up to over 450-f then add it in and stir until the fizzing goes away.
you then have a grease matrix.
after that turn down the heat and melt the waxes in and pour everything out to cool down.

watch and see if the ivory stays in the solution or whether everything tries to separate into layers.
I would add a little bit of another oil like a regular ol 2-stroke because otherwise your just relying on the waxes to do the job.

[Elkins45]

If you are cooking up an Ivory grease then might I suggest castor oil as the lubricant additive? I'm on my second batch of a multi wax lube and cooking it starts by tossing the shaved a Ivory in the pot with the paraffin and castor. The heating and stirring needed to gel the Ivory will help polymerize the castor, as is done when making Felix lube.

I am having some very promising result with this:

1 oz Gulf Wax
2 oz powdered dried Ivory
1 tbl castor oil

Once liquid, add

2 oz Everbilt toilet ring
1 oz Palm wax
1 oz Soy wax

So far I like everything about this mix. It doesn't need heat to flow, stays in the grooves without sticking to the neighbors and so far it is at least as accurate as the other lubes I have shot it against.

[runfiverun]

that looks like a nice smooth recipe, should have good flow characteristics and feather out nicely.

[Elkins45]

I really like the handling characteristics. I lubed some bullets from the same batch with Felix and some with the multi wax Ivory and the difference between the two was noticeable. The beeswax based Felix lubed ones were much more likely to be gooey and to have a chunk of lube missing if they touched another bullet.

I have thought about adding a little beeswax to this mix on the hypothesis that the greater variety of waxes give a greater range of performance, but I'm afraid it will scorch from the residual heat needed to melt the soap. I know about the SL68B method of crash cooling but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort in this case.

[runfiverun]

to add the bees-wax just pull it off the heat and add the wax.
melting the B-wax will cool down the mix and melt the wax at the same time.
I break the wax into chunks to make it melt easier.

another thing that works is to melt the b-wax separate.
then pull the hot mix off the heat and pour the B-wax in.
stir the whole thing together until it starts to congeal slightly then pour it out on a baking sheet to cool.

be careful adding the wax in either way you do it and wear some gloves, I have a couple of nasty scars from small splashes of hot soap type lube.

[Elkins45]

I was able to get the current formula spooned into lube stick molds before it solidified. Adding chunks by hand is easier if you are loading a Lyman rather than RCBS sizer because the screw stays in the reservoir. I like being able to just load up sticks in the LAM2.

Wonder if a beeswax mix would "cook" if it was poured into stick molds because of the slower cooling speeds?

[runfiverun]

it melts at 150 but doesn't really start to scorch until 180, you should be able to get everything mixed easily enough then on the heat and off again to keep it liquid enough to pour into the molds.
I have made Ben's red from scratch materials and it takes over 350-f to melt the Li stearate to combine it with the oils to make a grease.
adding in the B-wax at the end using either method works and i have done the heat cool cycle with it to make sure I got the B-wax melted in properly before.
I have also re-melted it and added more wax.
so I think you can find a workable solution to get it into the molds without any ill affects to the lube.
the quick cooling is more suited to high soap lubes to help keep them from separating, but even they can be re-melted and re-cooled if necessary.

[geargnasher]

Depending on how much soap is in there, you might be able to get the lube RE-melted to a gravy stage and pour in into moulds or the sizer without hurting the beeswax or the soap matrix. As long as you never heat a metal soap grease to the "drop point" where the soap matrix melts, you haven't hurt it. Soda soap grease is good to at least 420°F before the matrix starts breaking down. Beeswax incorporated in a bullet lube can tolerate over 300 degrees for a few minutes without "scorching". If you use 25-30% soap by weight in the recipe, it won't pour at all and will be difficult to even spoon into moulds or a sizer without scorching the beeswax. 15-20% or less and it should be like thick gravy by 250°F and easily in the "safe" zone for beeswax. Beeswax by itself cannot withstand nearly as high a temperature, like Run said above.

Gear