Mooses

[BrentD]

After several attempts over the last decade, I finally proved to myself that paper patched bullets will kill a moose. And my first moose it was...

these are from the Yukon last week. The bullet was a design of my own. the mould made by Steve Brooks. I'm not particularly happy with the design as it failed to expand as i would have liked. However, had it expanded the penetration might have been compromised. Penetration was just enough to make it to the skin on the offside. One bullet was a pure pass through. The well mushroomed bullet was a shot to the neck from 5 ft just to be sure. It centered the spine and expanded. The others hit ribs and the fourth hit the humorous. Two of the bullets passed through the aortic arch and pulmonary veins and arteries severing them completely. These were 40:1.

The load was 68 grs of Swiss 1.5 f and my own lube. The rifle is a Ballard Pacific (#5) original, circa 1880.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Moose/Moose%20and%20Ballard%20A%20small.jpg



http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Moose/Moose%20Killer%20Bullets%20small.jpg[/QUOTE]

[M-Tecs]

Nice moose nice rifle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lead pot]

Brent.

Sure looked like a great hunt. I looked at your photo's on your site. Great pictures BUT Couldn't you at least rub some moose fat on the rifle to keep the brown off?????????
Why is it when ever you shoot a moose you always work in the water or knee deep in mud????????

Kurt

[BrentD]

Ah yea, but patina is patina and it comes at a price. Besides, those pictures came before we had a moose on the ground. Most of the moisture, in that case, was the result of being transported in a pickup for 30 minutes to the river for the float plane pick up. She had freckles from the buffalo killing fields so a little more from the moose killing fields aren't a big deal and really only proper when you think about it. She is a working rifle, not a collector's girl.

'Tis the only big game I've ever killed in waders or knee boots. But totally a necessity here. I was lucky that bull didn't go a whole lot deeper before I got him on the ground. He was headed that way when he went down in the marsh. Another 5 ft would have been a really big problem.

[Lead pot]

I feel the same for my hunting rifles. They are working rifles. I mostly hunt the UP Michigan and up there you either hunt in the rain, mist or a snow fall. A little brown always shows up at one point during the hunt and sleeping out in a damp tent for a week or two.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

brent,
good to see an actual hunt, as opposed to shooting farm animals or baited animals and calling it a hunt.
keep safe,
bruce.

[randyrat]

Nice! What a nice pic

[BrentD]

More pictures and story here
http://bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=32649#p32649

[Lead pot]

Brent.

I keep going over and over your pictures of the hunt. I have to talk to you to get some particulars the next time we shoot like the outfitter and procedures. My time is getting short and that has been on my list for many years. I have been to Alaska many times and spent many weeks at a time in the bush 150 miles from town but not for hunting game.


Your bullet is of interest to me because I use one just about identical to it in my .44 hunting rifle. Can you give me the dimensions of that bullet like the length and unpatched diameter? I cant tell if it has a little taper or if it is a camera angle. It looks like it has a slight taper and what the final patched diameter in relation to the bore.
Regardless to your concerns of the bullet, it got the job done. Not many would go back in the bush after a moose with a single shot and a black powder load. Good Job! Are you going to do it again?

Kurt

[swheeler]

Brent nice moose and nice rifle! Hellys are required outerwear in Alaska :-)

[madsenshooter]

Mooses? Shouldn't that be meese? Goose-geese, moose-meese? Sorta like mouse-mice, grouse-grice. This language is so confusing to me!

[merlin101]

Congratulations! Unfortunately that's nothing but a dream for me.

[BrentD]

merlin, dreams can come true. Mine did. It took 50 years of dreaming but there it is.

Kurt, the bullet is not tapered. It's probably .444" but I'll have to measure again because I can't remember.

Would I do it again? I've been thinking about that and I believe the answer is yes. But probably in a different area so I an see some different landscapes. I don't have a lot of time left, so I'll have to make up my mind soon and go in the next 4-5 yrs I think. It is not a minor undertaking.

Brent

[BrentD]

Kurt,
Here is a drawing of the bullet that I sent to Brooks for carving. I forgot to actually measure it to see how it turned out. Overall, I think the meplate it too small. I'm going back to a .25" meplat.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Moose/483%20gr%20Hunting%20bullet.jpg

[Lead pot]

Thank you Brent.

That bullet is almost a dead ringer from what I use in my two .44 hunting rifles. .44-77 and the .44-90bn except mine is a .432" diameter and at 486 gr it is 1.310" long with a .175" meplat. I had Steve make the mould adjustable.
The bullet on the bottom is what I turned down on the lathe and sent him to duplicate and he hit it on the nose except for the meplat. I wanted a .200", but with it being a nose pour mould it would be easy to take a little off under the sprue plate. But sofar it has been a good performer and I don't think I will change it. I can make this bullet up to 537 gr with a cup base and 544 gr with a flat base. But that makes that bullet 1.460" long and it is marginal in the .44-90bn with it's 1/19 ROT and it's useless past 100 yards in the 1/19 .44-77 so I set the mould at 1.310.
So far I have taken two Bison's with this bullet. The first with the .44-90 and it put him down with one shot and the second I had to take two shots because I made a shot to high took the top of both lungs and cut ribs about 4" below the spine but it knocked him down on the first shot but he got back up and I had to shot him again. but all shots passed straight through and kicked up a lot of sand when they grounded.
Brent I don't so much look for expansion, I look for a complete pass through to ventilate that boiler room that collapses the lungs.
Next Wed. morning I will pull out to get another Buff and I will use the .44-77 again with that bullet and I will take the .44-75 Ballard with me and it will have the same bullet in it's load. I'm sort of teetering back and forth deciding on which one I want to use.
But I really like this bullet. It has not failed me in accuracy and the harvest.
And it looks like it got the job done for you.

Kurt

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/44-90BNjpg-1.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/44-90BNjpg-1.jpg.html)

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/IMG_0354.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_0354.jpg.html)

[BrentD]

Yes, that does look nearly identical to my bullet. It will penetrate well, but I thought I would get more expansion for a 40:1 alloy. What alloy are you using for bison?

[Lead pot]

1/40 Brent.

I'm pushing it a little harder with 73.5 gr of 3F OE powder.

[BrentD]

I'd be interested to see any bullets you might recover. What's the skin on a bison like for thickness.
Brent

[Lead pot]

Brent I never recovered one. I seen them hit the ground after passing through but I never tried to find it.
If I think of it and I have time I will drop a hanky and scratch a line in the direction I shot and see if I find some blood and hair if he dosent drop on the spot. Might find it buried in a sand hill after it's all done.
I just looked at the hide with hair I have and the hide is about 1/8" thick.
I took my final last shots this morning @200 to check the load and sights. I'm ready!!

[JDL]

Brent, A most excellent hunt and thank you for sharing!
Here is what I used for a couple of elk. The pure lead 510 grain bullet stopped under the hide on both and expanded 15/16" while penetrating both lungs. Both elk were not over 50 yards and only went 25-30 yards before going down. Blood trail was profuse though short even from only one hole. The muzzle velocity is 1650 out of my B-78 and I would have bet good money I'd get complete penetration with slugs that heavy. What an eye opener! A little harder or a little slower and I may not have recovered them.:-)

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k380/Joe1899/Jan1009006.jpg (http://s325.photobucket.com/user/Joe1899/media/Jan1009006.jpg.html)

[BrentD]

Ah, that's what I like to see. Nice! I have used pure lead and shall again, but I have never stopped a bullet in an elk.

At 1650 fps, you must be shooting bore diameter, and smokeless I imagine.

Very nice.

[JDL]

Correct. The bullet diameter is .450" before patching and IMR-3031 is the propellant. Because of your post, I got my B-78 out today and ran some RCBS 45-300FP to make sure it was sighted in. It's been over 2 years since I shot her.....thanks for your post.

[BrentD]

What is the twist on that barrel? I don't know much about b78s.

[Lead pot]

JDL.

That is a fine looking hunting bullet. 1650 fps might be a little to fast for that soft bullet to get complete pass through.
I did not recover a bullet. I think if one would have stood behind the yearling I took (367# dressed hanging weight) it would have passed through the second one also.
He filled the freezer.
Kurt

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/IMG_2484%202_zps96ue7gox.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_2484%202_zps96ue7gox.jpg.html)

[Edward]

Good eating but that is outstanding wood on your rifle !

[JDL]

Brent, the advertised twist is 1 in 20" but, I've never measured it.

Lead Pot, I agree. If the velocity had been 1400-1500 FPS, I believe it would have been a complete pass through.... or maybe, a little tin to harden. I've since reduced my bullet weight to 420 grs. with a BHN of 10 and velocity to not over 1500 FPS because a 510 gr. @ 1650 FPS is too much of a good thing out of a 9.5 lb. rifle.
P.S. Your Sharps is really bringing out the lust factor in me.:-)

[BrentD]

FWIW, my bullets were moving at 1215 fps, cast of 40:1 and weighed 483 grs. I was surprised that only one passed through.

[Lead pot]

I like that .44-77 74 Sharps Hartford. I put some oil on the wood because of the misty rains and it brought out the grain in the wood. It looks nice but more important it shoots well.
We are heading back up to Alaska next year and I think I will be packing the Sharps along with the shot gun I use to keep the critters away if need be. The area we set stakes at is just below the artic circle and Moose are thick in that location and no guides needed in that sector so we may stay longer and take one before heading back down.
Brent kinda put the spark back in me for one.

[JDL]

He put the spark in me also but, I'm afraid Father Time will have the last word! Never been moose hunting but, killed a few elk and will try to make at least one more hunt. You fellers have flung a craving on me for a .44 something fierce!;-)

[Lead pot]

Nah JDL, age is just a state of mind and a few more pains getting up when sitting on the ground. Besides moving slow and stopping often is good for stalking :) I turned 75 a couple days after that picture was taken. Sure it's easy to call a truck out with a winch to load the buff up and haul it to the butcher shop something I could not do deep in the bush but I can still carry smaller loads.
when you say I'm getting to old, then you are old.

[JDL]

Hold on a minute Kurt, I didn't say I was too old but, I'm not as strong as I usetobe.:-) Dropped my motorcycle off the kickstand in a parking lot and a lady had to help me get it back up on it's wheels.:oops:
Anyway, to get back on topic, I'm thinking seriously about an elk hunt next year and will take my tried and true B-78 .45-70........unless I find an affordable .44 something or other. BTW, I'm a young squirt at only 68.:-)

[Lead pot]

Arch your just a young pup. :) But just wait when you drop wapiti at about 10,000 ft in heavy dead fall you will think your getting old LOL.

[Just Duke]

Nice Moose and thanks for sharing.