Garage contruction has started

[MaryB]

After to many years without a garage and space for my wood shop I am finally having one built. 24x30 foot pole garage that will be fully insulated and have the interior steel liner. First picture is the start where they had pushed back the black dirt and put down a couple inches of gravel and packed it. Second pic is the finished pad ready for the contractor to start setting poles! Note the bobcat with tracks it is n both picture in about the same location and shows how much fill I had to have hauled in and packed after each layer.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20150916_1754088421_zpsdqlayocb.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20150917_1242520381_zpsr8bqcvlz.jpg

[crowbuster]

Very nice. Ready for more pics.

[Artful]

Congratulations - may it go smoothly and on schedule

[fryboy]

that's not big enough :P ( yeah i know but ..... it's never big enough )

[jsizemore]

Where is the water going to runoff between the garage pad and the house since the grading?

[smoked turkey]

Very nice Mary. You will appreciate it when you can have your cars inside out of the weather. Ofcourse it is also good place to cast boolits and store needed stuff. At any rate may the process go quickly and may you come in under budget.

[MaryB]

Garage roof will slope towards the camera in the last pic so not a lot of water into that 10 foot wide space between garage and house. Also leaves me a south facing roof for solar panels and I had them spec the roof for an extra 1,000 pound load on it! The space between house and garage will have a low spot in the center also to direct water front and rear more than it already does(high spot halfway in, it also slopes to the front and back).

[jmort]

Good for you. I have a 160 square foot shop coming in the form of a 20' cargo container. I think I would rather have your garage.

[DeputyDog25]

Looking forward to seeing more pics and the final pic of the completion

[lightman]

Congrats! I hope the construction goes smoothly and that you enjoy it as much as I do mine. I can see a side shed added on in a few years! Ha Ha! Ask me how I know?

[Garyshome]

Not large enough.

[Artful]

Good for you. I have a 160 square foot shop coming in the form of a 20' cargo container. I think I would rather have your garage.

Didn't you realize your 20' cargo container is just the first lego block?
http://www.isbu-news.org/GC_shipping-container-workshop.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyxk8yeI-ig
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvJJfmyV_ms

And another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkdfTAuyqEM
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIx44IEEbuY

And another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tedB6BixKH4

[jsizemore]

Garage roof will slope towards the camera in the last pic so not a lot of water into that 10 foot wide space between garage and house. Also leaves me a south facing roof for solar panels and I had them spec the roof for an extra 1,000 pound load on it! The space between house and garage will have a low spot in the center also to direct water front and rear more than it already does(high spot halfway in, it also slopes to the front and back).

Since your in Minnesota you probably have a basement and saturated ground near the foundation isn't an issue. That compacted pad (clay? and gravel) is gonna run water till you get some new ground cover built up. Looks like a great start.

[merlin101]

Garages, I love em! My wife thinks I'm nuts, we stop at a garage sale and I look at the garage itself and all the 'good stuff' that's not for sale. I love to see how other people have their stuff stored and what projects are in process. I guess I'm nosy
Oh yeah, 24x30 is a great start :) I've got a 20x30 with a full attic and thats just for car stuff.

[John Allen]

There is nothing like having a big clean garage to work in that is until you start filling it and run out of room!!!!

[bdicki]

that's not big enough :P ( yeah i know but ..... it's never big enough )

Always 10 feet too short.

[jsizemore]

I've got a friend that did the container thing. 2 containers long and 2 high on each side (8 total) with a 16' aisle in between. Trusses over the whole thing with angle brackets welded to the tops of the containers to secure the trusses. Concrete aisle with a pit at 1 end for working on big trucks. Holes cut in the containers from the aisle to access machine shop in the lower containers and storage in uppers. He paid $50-100 for each container and borrowed a rollback from work to transport. Had a small fee to transport from DOT. Trusses were bought surplus from a truss company as engineering mistakes for a particular project. One of the best private garages I've run across.

[MaryB]

Unfortunately the town has an ordinance against containers plus I cannot do the work myself. Thought about it though! I am maxed out for space where I am at. Right is at property line limits, front at setback from street limit(and they wanted it to match the house setback...), left is 5 feet from a gas line so can't go closer to the house, and going to the rear I would lose my only tree that I have spent years trimming into an arched canopy over my picnic table. With 10'4" inside height I do have room for racks up by the ceiling for lumber storage and enough height to jack my truck up 3 feet for working on it. Attic access will be limited and with R50 insulation up there I can't add to much weight to the ceiling, especially with the south facing side of the roof getting 1,000 pounds of solar panels on it. Really looking forward to it. I needed to cut some plywood today to make a radio mount for the truck. I had to carry the table saw out on the deck, move stuff off the radial arm saw, move stuff to reach my toolbox... that little 12x16 shed is stuffed to the max.

[TXGunNut]

Looking good! Seems you have put a lot of thought into it. Please keep us posted.

[jsizemore]

The more space you make, the more stuff you get. As you get older, it's like Christmas every time you go looking for something.

[woodbutcher]

:-D Hi Mary.Your space problem reminds me of a friend in Fl.His Dad gave him a 50x100 building for his hobby after he built a new 100x100 for his new maintainance shop for his grove eqp.His Son started to complain that at times he did`nt have enough room.HOWEVER,he believes that bigger is better.His last frame off resto project was a 1940`s fuel delivery truck.His new project was delivered last month.A 1944 built HALF TRACK.
No wonder he is short of space.Hehehe.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[MaryB]

I need space for my woodworking stuff and to park in winter. Table saw, router table, radial arm saw, and I want to make a bench that will hold my miter/chop saw at the right height for 8 foot pieces. I will likely build the router and radial arm saw into the same bench so I have everything in a line and can use whatever I need. Radial arm saw and miter saw right next to each other for example and put the router at one end so I can feed stock in. Table saw is getting upgraded to a better floor model(primary use is cutting 4x4 sheets of ply down to laser blank size of 12x20). The wood stuff is all used along with the laser engraver. I want to expand into making custom wood pistol display boxes etc... right now I just don't have the room to do it efficiently enough for it to make money. Plus I like to build small furniture items as gifts for Christmas.... Current shed is 12x16 and will hold my BBQ stuff(it is right off my deck) and I am adding a powder coat booth in the back of it with an exhaust fan for the powder coated stuff I run in the laser. Rest of the space can hold my gardening tools, my folding chairs for BBQs(I have 20 of them...) my folding tables... and it will have space for pallets of pellets if need be!

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuKIBWqg5yI
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nGqsc0JF3I

some real cleaver people outthere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0xW0IdnlUY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmPRbLtOJYY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6RYYDvnTYA

Want to have a tool docking station ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVjkwH3GugI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-Aem0OV9M

[shooter93]

I have nearly 5 acres and I think what I need is some really big trusses and just roof the entire area.....smiles.

[TXGunNut]

I have nearly 5 acres and I think what I need is some really big trusses and just roof the entire area.....smiles.


That would cut down on the time wasted mowing the grass. ;-)

[mgread]

Looking good. Hope it can be all done before the snow

[SeabeeMan]

24x30 is a great size, but of course bigger is better. Our attached garage is 24x24 and I've somehow managed to fit both chest freezers, a 60gal compressor, drill press, corner bench 20ton hydraulic press, welder, and plenty of shelving. Both strollers somehow even seem to fit. Build shelves high and work down from there. I ended up installing 1x8 "trim" against the ceiling and use that as a place to put in screws, nails and hooks to hang all manner of junk up near the ceiling and out of the way.

PVC is great to build racks out of on the ceiling. My fishing poles, snowboards, my wife's skis, and all the lights for the seed starting rack all hide out above the garage door when they aren't in use.

[deep creek]

be carefull when buying shipping containers. if they have shipped over seas they have been sprayed real heavy with bug and rodent killer.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Mary, Looks good so far.

[MaryB]

On the waiting list. Trusses are ordered and that is the holdup right now. Soon as they come in they will start setting poles.

[jsizemore]

Wise decision. I don't start till the trusses are on the ground or I build them.

[MaryB]

Trusses were special order and not off the shelf. Have to hold 1,000 pounds of solar panels on half the roof + snow load...

[MaryB]

10AM this morning I had this(we worked all day Wed getting holes lined up and dug, ran into some fun rocks...Thursday 35mph gusts made setting poles accurately impossible!)

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151016_1120042301_zpspjoyqgdi.jpg

As of 3PM this afternoon:

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151016_1437414761_zpsm1mvefqw.jpg

By 5:30 all the purlins were on and walls braced. Ready to start setting steel on Monday! Ran out of light so no last picture.

[Bad Water Bill]

Looking good young lady.

Now when do they pour the floor and be sure they understand just which way YOU want the water to drain.
























l

[Petrol & Powder]

I have nearly 5 acres and I think what I need is some really big trusses and just roof the entire area.....smiles.

Anyone with a basic understanding of chemistry knows that a gas will expand to fill whatever container you put it in. Reloaders are controlled by the same principle, our gear will expand to fill whatever container you put us in! :bigsmyl2:.

[William Yanda]

"ran into some fun rocks"
Well, I suppose REALLY fun rocks might be an option. I have heard of rocks that would fill a backhoe bucket, or bigger, up in the Adirondack Mtns. Sometimes drilled holes and used a chemical to split them so they could be moved.

[MaryB]

Nothing that big, one piece was about 150 pounds though! And we ran into an old burn pile. All kinds of late 1800's broken glass and pottery... kept an eye out for any coins but no luck!

[woodbutcher]

:drinks: Hi MaryB.Looking good.Running into rocks ain`t fun.BTDT.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[bedbugbilly]

Looks like you are making progress! Digging MANY post holes on the farm when a kid, I know well the frustration of "rocks"! :-) I'm looking forward to seeing more photos . . .and I'm sure you are excited bout it too! Won't be long and you'll have a nice place to work! Good luck to you!

[Artful]

Nice Progress - how the weather cooperates for you.

[MaryB]

Weather the next few days looks good except for wind... tomorrow might be iffy for putting steel sheets on the roof.

[MaryB]

Little progress, they didn't start until 2pm... yes I need to redo the driveway entrance... it originally went to shed in the back of the property

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151019_1850420271_zpsrfbmfnod.jpg

[Mumblypeg]

I think it's looking very good !

[jmort]

With that kind of work schedule, it seems like it may be a race with the weather. Looks real nice.

[Bad Water Bill]

Next is a picture of the covered walkway to the nice and cumfey heated garage.

[TXGunNut]

"ran into some fun rocks"
Well, I suppose REALLY fun rocks might be an option. I have heard of rocks that would fill a backhoe bucket, or bigger, up in the Adirondack Mtns. Sometimes drilled holes and used a chemical to split them so they could be moved.

There are very few problems that cannot be solved with the proper application of high explosives.

[TXGunNut]

Nicely done, BTW.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hey, lookin good !

[MaryB]

They started in at 9 today, I grabbed the first picture at 11AM

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151020_1321003491_zpsxpinide2.jpg

And at 2PM

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151020_160936288_HDR1_zpsllozqhqd.jpg

By 4PM we had the ceiling up, by we I mean I carried sheets of steel lol they put them up!

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151020_170027350_HDR1_zpsrmzh8nn9.jpg

And at 5:30 before they packed up the lift.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151020_172137136_HDR1_zpsgqsaz8r0.jpg

Hopefully beginning of next week they pour the slab. Then they come back and put in the 2 windows that were on order, blown insulation in the ceiling(R50!) and 8 inch thick bats in the walls before the wall liner steel goes on. And install the garage door and the commercial grade opener. Garage door is R16 so everything is going to be well insulated. Before they pour the slab they will dig down 2 feet and put in foam sheet insulation to keep the slab warmer. Then I can start wiring! It isn't going to take much to keep it warm in there.

I haven't decided if I want a natural gas furnace, a small wood stove, or just use a kerosene heater...

[Gofaaast]

Make sure the floor is reinforced well with rebar not wire. If your floor will be 5" thick or greater I would run 1/2 rebar on 42" centers if it's a 4" floor I would use 3/8 rebar on 3' centers. Make sure they set the rebar up on chairs so it is properly placed in the concrete. This small investment now will pay huge dividends for years to come.

[DougGuy]

Next is a picture of the covered walkway to the nice and cumfey heated garage.

^^ Exactly what I was thinking!!

Looking GOOD!

Natural gas = set it and forget it!

[MaryB]

6" slab and rebar 2' on center :bigsmyl2: I was thinking ahead to lifting my truck with a jack or maybe even getting a hoist in there.


Make sure the floor is reinforced well with rebar not wire. If your floor will be 5" thick or greater I would run 1/2 rebar on 42" centers if it's a 4" floor I would use 3/8 rebar on 3' centers. Make sure they set the rebar up on chairs so it is properly placed in the concrete. This small investment now will pay huge dividends for years to come.

[MaryB]

No covered walkway! It would drive my insurance way up making it a connected garage! I am putting in a wood boardwalk to my front door and a ramp to a small deck. Thinking ahead to when I may be in a wheelchair!

[Gofaaast]

I Love your thinking on reinforcing concrete. To many people fall for the wire so I always suggest what I feel is the minimum for rebar. I was in the business for to many years and my slogan for reinforcing got to be, wire is for chickens, fiberglass is for boats, rebar is for concrete.
It's gonna get hard and crack that's the guarantee. You gonna have it stress cut at least every 10-12' so it cracks where you want it to?

[MaryB]

yup! That is included in the bid.

[OBIII]

Looking good Mary, and I hope everything works out. Not knowing what's available to you, I would recommend a pellet stove. Obviously you now have a place to store a few tons of pellets. :) Needless to say, I am very envious.
OB

[pretzelxx]

Seems smaller once it's all done huh? lol I remember helping my dad build a garage and he got all his wood working stuff piled in a corner and said dang, I need a second garage now.

[Artful]

Yes looking very good

[Petrol & Powder]

Looking good indeed.

A gas furnace hanging from the ceiling wouldn't take up floor space, could hold the temp above freezing most of the time and quickly bump up the temp when you need to work in the garage. It also doesn't require as much attention from you, set and forget.

A wood stove may be cheaper to operate if you have access to firewood but that requires floor space, wood storage, chimney maintenance and attention. If you're concerned about mobility as you age, a wood stove may not be the way to go.

A kerosene heater may not be a bad compromise if you don't need to keep the building above freezing all of the time. Even a well insulated building will drop to the ambient temperature eventually (particularly in MN !!) The kerosene heater will take up floor space but not a lot, it's easy to fire up quickly and not dependent on an off-site fuel supply. (Although natural gas supply is very dependable).

My vote of those three options would be a small gas furnace suspended from the ceiling.

[Three44s]

It's been great following this! Good to see it's beating the weather also!

I was about to yell at the 'puter .......... "Better insulate" ......... and I scroll down and see you are going first class!!

Got to have it for these northern climes!

It's always fun to see a skelton turn into a building before your eyes .......... My wife and I had a 40x60 all steel built with 12 foot lean to's on each side about 10 years ago and our builder was diagnosed with a late cancer.

It was a real race. A company he used to erect for came in and put the main roof on ........ we have the insulation that's trapped between the girts and purlins and the outside metal ......... the insulation was on .......... and we got no wind and no rain ...... and the roof went on the next day ............. November mind you.

When he was diagnosed, we tried to get him to drop us and take a trip with his significant other. He insisted on staying and BUILDING!

......... and he did what he wanted to do ....... he built!

As a younger man, he was a boxer ......... so he continued to build for us as he could and "boxed" his illness when he couldn't! ........ until two years later when the community lost him.

Best regards and good to see Mary's project closing in on completion!

Three 44s

[bedbugbilly]

I've enjoyed following this as well. Looks like they are doing a fine job Mary and I'm sure you are excited about it as well! Will be fun to keep following the progress!

[Bad Water Bill]

When you are wiring the garage make sure they are all handicap accessible since you mentioned there MIGHT be a wheelchair in your future.

Also remember you can not ever have to many receptacles available.

Use thinwall tubing out there so the critters can not eat the insulation off of the wiring.

They WILL eat anything in the Minehaha winters.

Much easier to do before the insulation is installed.

[Petrol & Powder]

Hopefully they can get it all buttoned up and the slab poured before the weather sets in. That will take a lot of the pressure off completing the interior.
Keep us informed !

[garym1a2]

Compress air and multiple outlets also.

When you are wiring the garage make sure they are all handicap accessible since you mentioned there MIGHT be a wheelchair in your future.

Also remember you can not ever have to many receptacles available.

Use thinwall tubing out there so the critters can not eat the insulation off of the wiring.

They WILL eat anything in the Minehaha winters.

Much easier to do before the insulation is installed.

[Plate plinker]

6" slab !! Your other car must be a Army tank?!
Looks like a good build I must say.

[MaryB]

Using surface mounted conduit and boxes, easy to make changes that way! 4 3,000 lumen LED shop lights on 2 separate switch ceiling outlets.

Concrete mid to late next week! I went 6 inch for 2 reasons. If I ever install a hoist it will support it, and it is a heat sink that will moderate the indoor temps! Contractor said his never gets below 32 degrees in winter even without heat.


When you are wiring the garage make sure they are all handicap accessible since you mentioned there MIGHT be a wheelchair in your future.

Also remember you can not ever have to many receptacles available.

Use thinwall tubing out there so the critters can not eat the insulation off of the wiring.

They WILL eat anything in the Minehaha winters.

Much easier to do before the insulation is installed.

[Petrol & Powder]

If you're thinking about installing a lift later on, consider placing the lights a little closer to the walls so that you don't end up lighting the top of the car with a big shadow under the car. In one garage application I put 8' fluorescent fixtures on the walls about 1' down from the ceiling to provide better lighting for work on vehicles. Depending on your intended use that may not be the solution for you, just throwing it out there. Those LED fixtures are nice, lots of light, without a lot of current needed.

[Three44s]

LED's the way to go now that prices of the fixtures have been coming down.

They light up in cooler weather also much better than fl. as well.

Best regards

Three 44s

[Petrol & Powder]

There's no doubt that LEDs are great units.

[Bad Water Bill]

When I decided to install LEDs I found that "CREE" was the only one approved for an enclosed fixture and is covered with some plastic type material that contains ALL of the broken glass if you drop the bulb.

Yes I did and yes it did keep ALL of the glass inside.

[MaryB]

I didn't buy the replacement style bulbs. I bought fixture made for LED's from the start! No tubes at all, the LED's are mounted on a metal plate that runs the length of the fixture.

I don't do much car repair, an oil change once a year now is about it! Main use is going to be my wood shop so LED's overhead will be perfect. I might change brakes or other minor repairs but I can always have an extra LED shop light to lay under a car.

[Three44s]

The LED units we have been switching to look a lot like the florescent banks we are taking out .......... until you turn them on!

Light city!

Three 44s

[Petrol & Powder]

Caught it.
As a wood shop the lights would be better mounted on the ceiling equal distance from the walls.

[rbertalotto]

Nice! Radiant, gas fired, heater......no exposed flame...no induced moisture...no wind blowing dust all over the place...But the most important aspect, it heats objects, not air......you don't lose all the heat when you open the big door. ...That concrete floor will act as a tromb and store amazing amount of heat if it is radiant.

In this picture you can see the radiant heater that heats my 26 X 26' garage no problem. And at 15 degrees it only turns on ever so often.

http://images43.fotki.com/v310/photos/3/36012/5571637/P1010490-vi.jpg

http://images35.fotki.com/v1154/photos/3/36012/5991434/P1010001-vi.jpg

[rbertalotto]

Bee extremely careful heating with Kerosene. I nearly destroyed a woodworking shop I had with rust. K1 puts out huge amounts of moisture. And since it heats air, the tools remain cold and moisture condenses on them. I had a horror show after leaving the building un attended during a cold snap for only a couple of days.

I'm not a big fan of any exposed flame in a workshop. Some types of dust and sawdust can become extremely expolsive when blown into the air simply from the garage door opening on a windy day. Not to mention working on gasoline power vehicles and such....

[bdicki]

I would put coils in the concrete for radiant floor heating. Even if you don't connect them now, it's much harder if you change your mind in the future. Concrete floors are cold and stay cold in the winter.

[Petrol & Powder]

I would put coils in the concrete for radiant floor heating. Even if you don't connect them now, it's much harder if you change your mind in the future. Concrete floors are cold and stay cold in the winter.

True but you don't need to heat that massive amount of concrete (and air above it) 24 hours a day / 7 days a week in a garage. Those applications are more about rapid heating for work and little or no heating when unoccupied. If on the other hand, you want to heat the space to 68-70 degrees and keep it there, hot water in flowing through that massive slab would work but it is expensive and ill suited to rapidly bringing that large space up to temperature. Radiant floor heat is very efficient for maintaining heat but very poor for rapid temperature changes.

As for un-vented kerosene adding water vapor to the space, that is true but there's little humidity in Minnesota air mid January anyway, so some humidity might be a good thing; particularly in a wood shop. However a portable kerosene heater is a poor choice for long term / constant heating.

As for radiant heat warming things and not air, also true but those warm things then heat the air around them and the opposite is true with warm air - it in turn heats the things exposed to that warm air. It's all relative as to what gets heated first.

A vented; forced air, gas furnace hanging from the ceiling takes up no floor space, heats the air rapidly, doesn't have an exposed flame and requires little attention from the user. If the space doesn't need to be 70 degrees all the time, a forced air furnace is the quickest and easiest way to heat it as needed.

[Petrol & Powder]

http://www.ultimategarageheater.com/images/content/gas-propane-garage-heaters-info2.jpgThere's a reason garages across America have some type of old Modine vented gas heater hanging from the ceiling and it's not because they are nostalgic. They work !
They aren't terribly efficient nor are they cutting edge technology but they excel at heating large spaces quickly, they are easy to put into operation and they are durable. There's newer technology that is more efficient but if I had a shop/garage in Minnesota that I needed to warm up occasionally in mid winter, the forced air gas fired heater would be my choice.
From an economic point of view they suck for long term temperature control but for short term (a few hours a day and not every day) nothing can beat them. There are other systems out there that are more efficient for long term temperature control (radiant hot water in the slab, hot water radiators, solid fuel stoves, etc.) and cheaper short term heaters (infrared heaters, space heaters, etc.) but nothing that can change a cold but well insulated garage into a comfortable working environment as quickly as a vented forced air heater. They burn a fair amount of fuel but for relatively short durations.

[MaryB]

I had that quoted, extra $2,000... nope not in the budget!


I would put coils in the concrete for radiant floor heating. Even if you don't connect them now, it's much harder if you change your mind in the future. Concrete floors are cold and stay cold in the winter.

[MaryB]

I want to hold the garage around 40 all winter and only bring it up when I am working on something. The gas heater is about $500 and the most affordable option. Plus the gas meter has a capped tap that is 10 feet from the garage wall!

[Petrol & Powder]

Problem solved !

[Petrol & Powder]

Roy B , is that an R-series BMW I see in your garage? I'm envious!

[Artful]

My gunsmith friend put the Compressed PVC Air lines embedded in concrete of his shop and acted as storage vessel/Tank so that you can use it quite awhile before the compressor has to top it up.

[Petrol & Powder]

My gunsmith friend put the Compressed PVC Air lines embedded in concrete of his shop and acted as storage vessel/Tank so that you can use it quite awhile before the compressor has to top it up.
That's a clever use of space.

[bdicki]

6" slab and rebar 2' on center :bigsmyl2: I was thinking ahead to lifting my truck with a jack or maybe even getting a hoist in there.
The shop I worked at we built paper machine sections up to 400 inch drum face weighting many 10,000's of pounds aligned to thousands of an inch, all built year after year for more than 40 years with many holes drilled through for anchors to hold the base plates, the anchors were then pounded through to make room for the next one. All this was done on 4 inch concrete.

[Handloader109]

My gunsmith friend put the Compressed PVC Air lines embedded in concrete of his shop and acted as storage vessel/Tank so that you can use it quite awhile before the compressor has to top it up.
Please don't use pvc for compressed air! Over time it deteriorates and a slight tap on a full air system makes for shrapnel. Very very dangerous. Now in slab it wouldn't hurt you, but above ground it is a bad bad very bad idea.

[MaryB]

The cost to go 6" was only another $500... why not go for it plus it is a heat sink that will keep the garage warmer in winter. And I would rather have solid than cracked...

[lead-1]

MaryB, in case I missed it, how big is your garage door?

[rbertalotto]

BMW is an R1150R Rockster
http://images20.fotki.com/v681/photos/3/36012/5094124/bmwr1150r_ext-vi.jpg

One last thing on the heat issue. If you have a hot water boiler to heat the house, or might install a backyard, wood fired boiler, I'd put heating pipes in the slab and run hot water through them. This is easily the most efficient way to heat a large room like a garage. Radiant heat and that huge slab will be a fantastic tromb to hold heat.

My next shop will be heated by in slab hot water with an outside gas/wood boiler.................Nice!

[LaPoint]

Is the $2000 quote for in-floor heating for electric coils or for PEX tubing in the floor? You should be able to purchase the PEX tubing from Menard's for about $600-$700. There are several good reasons to heat the slab with hot water.

It's more efficient, no need for a ceiling fan to push the heated air back down to your level. It's more comfortable, the slab is always warm so your feet are warm. Even with the insulation underneath it you slab will be quite cool (cold) with forced air heat, your feet will be cold when standing on it for long periods this winter.

You can heat the water with the cheapest method available (natural gas).

I have several friends with large aircraft hangars that keep them heated to 50 degrees for very little $$. I'm in the Willmar MN area.

Regardless of the method you choose to heat your shop you'll be very happy!! Good luck.

[MaryB]

16x9, high enough I won't scrape the ham radio antennas to badly and wide enough to get the snowblower or mower out without moving the truck.


MaryB, in case I missed it, how big is your garage door?

[MaryB]

$2k to put the pex in, labor you know...


Is the $2000 quote for in-floor heating for electric coils or for PEX tubing in the floor? You should be able to purchase the PEX tubing from Menard's for about $600-$700. There are several good reasons to heat the slab with hot water.

It's more efficient, no need for a ceiling fan to push the heated air back down to your level. It's more comfortable, the slab is always warm so your feet are warm. Even with the insulation underneath it you slab will be quite cool (cold) with forced air heat, your feet will be cold when standing on it for long periods this winter.

You can heat the water with the cheapest method available (natural gas).

I have several friends with large aircraft hangars that keep them heated to 50 degrees for very little $$. I'm in the Willmar MN area.

Regardless of the method you choose to heat your shop you'll be very happy!! Good luck.

[rondog]

A big garage/shop building with radiant heat in the floor - my fondest pipe dream! Unfortunately not a possibility where we live now, absolutely no space. Gotta move first. A big warm shop, I could LIVE in that! Wife would never see me.

I know a guy that built a garage with a heated floor, and you can walk around barefoot in there in the dead of winter. And it's not just warm air, everything in there is warm. The radiant heat just rises up like a cloud of warmth, enveloping everything in there. Awesomeness.

[Petrol & Powder]

Radiant floor heating installed in a concrete slab is awesome but it may not be the best in a shop that is only used occasionally.

The installation cost is fairly high, you need the tubing in the slab plus a boiler to heat the water and some way to circulate that hot water. That big heated mass is extremely efficient but slow to heat up. If you spend a lot of time in the shop it would be an outstanding way to hold the temperature at the desired level but it is a poor choice if you are only occasionally in the shop and desire to raise the temperature quickly for relatively short periods of time. I think the intended use of the building must be taken into account when selecting the heating method.

If you had a cheap supply of firewood, you could use an outdoor boiler coupled to a solar powered circulator pump but the wood fueled firebox requires daily attention. Not to mention the initial cost of a wood fired boiler plus the piping in the slab is fairly high. The operating costs would be low but you'd be better off maintaining a constant temp with that setup.

A gas fired boiler would take care of itself most of the time but still has high initial installation costs.

An any event, attempting to rapidly heat that massive slab is not productive.

[bdicki]

I agree that the cost is more, but if the tubing is installed then the rest of it can be completed in the future. You never know what your wants or needs will be over the next 20-30 years. Once poured without the coils that option is pretty much forever removed.
I speak from a small amount of experience as I wish I would have done it when I removed the wooden floor and poured a floor in my 1917 barn, still, even though I now spend the winter in Florida and will most likely end up there permanently at some time in the future.
A friend has a garage that is used for motor cycle repair and not a day goes by in the fall and winter when this does not come up. He has a gas overhead heater that warms the building good enough, but no matter how warm, your feet are still cold after a few hours unless wearing snowmobile boots even with rubber mats on the floor in the work areas.
I would delay pouring the floor until I had the funds to put the tubing in, but that's just me.
One of my projects in Florida this winter is to build a garage/barn on the property, I don't think I will need to heat the floor but I will seek the advice of the local talent there.
I'm not planning to put facility's in the barn but I will put the stub ups in it just in case, just because it is so difficult after the fact.
One thing to keep in mind that the requirement of the northeast and north west and north central area of this country have weather that is colder than most other parts of the lower 48, it gets cold. I was working in International Falls, MN on Memorial day a couple years ago and the town across the river still had 12 homes with frozen pipes. That's the beginning of June.

[lead-1]

16x9, high enough I won't scrape the ham radio antennas to badly and wide enough to get the snowblower or mower out without moving the truck.

Good idea, mine was standing when we bought this place and the doors are so narrow you can just get a bicycle past the truck.
Oh, "when" there is room for a truck, lol.

[TXGunNut]

Looks quite sturdy, would be considered overbuilt around here but I like it. Some upgrades just don't cost much. My workshop has been stalled for months, thanks for the motivation. I prefer my conduit in the walls but I'll (actually my electrician friend will) put in plenty of lights & receptacles, doubt I'll be wanting to change things.
An above-ground hoist is nice and surprisingly affordable, only problem I can see is one post will possibly be a bit of an obstacle when handling bigger pieces of wood. 6" is indeed more than a lift needs but I would make the slab a little thicker under the posts. OTOH $500 to go from 4" to 6" sounds pretty reasonable.
Looking good, I can only imagine how excited you must be.

[MaryB]

Adding tubing to the floor is not in the budget this year and I am not stalling construction for a year to save up the extra $2k. I have a budget to stick to! I do not spend hours in the shop. It is usually run out there, cut a blank for the laser, maybe route the edges if it is a plaque, then back in the house to engrave it. I will do my spray finishing out there in winter but I only need 50 degree temps for that! I am not a big furniture builder, maybe the occasional piece for myself or family.

Right now if I need to cut a 4x4 sheet of 1/4 inch oak ply or maple ply down into sign size I have to dig the table saw out of the shed. Setup on my deck, make the cuts, put everything away... meanwhile if it is -10 I am freezing my fingers, fighting equipment that doesn't like that low of a temp... Having a permanent shop setup that is kept reasonable warm where my hand arthritis won't be hating me is going to make things so much easier and quicker. Not having to setup and tear down is going to be a huge difference! And instead of cutting a bunch of blanks and stockpiling them I can cut as needed and have bigger sheets for other projects if needed.

I do need to come up with ideas for plywood racks and for board racks that won't take up a bunch of space...

They got the foundation insulated today with 4" of R board and they installed the overhead door. Need a load of gravel to bring the floor up another inch before they pour the slab. Concrete will be in the next day or two I hope!

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151026_1817288431_zps0ypazhv4.jpg

[jmort]

Getting near the goal line. Good for you. I think you really thought this project through and made great choices. There is always some compromise and trade-off, but your insulation will pay off big time. I epoxied the luan plywood floor of my cargo container and ran electrical out to it. Had a piece of carpet cut to fit. 8' x 20' beats nothing. 1600 square foot basement as well but the shipping container is really for reloading. Working on the benches right now. Will have 24 linear feet, basically 8x8x8 back/side/side and balance for storage, 12 feet on each side. Leaving 4 1/2 to 5 feet open in the middle. Would rather have a real garage/shop but, again, an 8'x20 reloading room beats nothing.

[MaryB]

I am thinking some of that rubber fatigue mat stuff for the workbench areas. Will add a layer of insulation off the concrete. Plus I can always wear my deer hunting boot covers that keep my feet toasty at 20 degrees sitting at a stand. I also have a heated electric mat under my desk, that thing is toasty on cold days!

Yes any space helps! My little shop off the deck is so over stuffed that I can't move in there. Especially in winter with the lawnmower in the corner and snowblower in the middle.

[Petrol & Powder]

Looking Good !!
I agree with TxGunNut, that would be considered overbuilt in some parts of the country but I bet the wind blows and the snow piles up in MN!!
You have a fine building and a lot of quality to the square foot, I think you did an outstanding job with your planning and execution.

[Love Life]

I am thinking some of that rubber fatigue mat stuff for the workbench areas. Will add a layer of insulation off the concrete. Plus I can always wear my deer hunting boot covers that keep my feet toasty at 20 degrees sitting at a stand. I also have a heated electric mat under my desk, that thing is toasty on cold days!

Yes any space helps! My little shop off the deck is so over stuffed that I can't move in there. Especially in winter with the lawnmower in the corner and snowblower in the middle.

I wore VB (Mickey Mouse) boots in my unheated, non-insulated, concrete floored garage in Nevada. Kept my feet nice and warm. However, having lived in Minnesota for a couple years, I understand your winters a bit more...vigorous.

[LaPoint]

Mary,
Your shop is looking great!! Will you be giving shop tours once its finished??

Tony

[MaryB]

Do you ever "finish" a building? It will likely be next spring before I get everything in there where I want it and workbenches built. Need to get a bigger air compressor so I am not waiting for it to come up to pressure all the time. Plan is to run a line to the mud room/pantry in the house too for air nailer use etc inside. Still putting up knotty pine plank upstairs and the little compressor just can't keep up. Easy enough to run 100 feet of air hose around the house to use stuff.

That over built look is to handle 1,000 pounds of solar panels on the south roof, up to 2 feet of heavy wet snow, and winds that top 100mph once a year on average. And winter storms with gusts topping 60mph that can last for 3-4 days... I laugh at the Alaska TV shows about how hard it is to live there considering the climate in MN is just as nasty!

[blackthorn]

I am curious as to why you will pour the slab last? Seems backwards to me. My shop sits on 30" foundation with a 6" floor, but all that went in first and then the building went on top. Mine is 30' by 40' with 12 foot ceiling. It is 2x6 framed, fully insulated and sheet rocked inside. It has 2 roll-up doors and one man door. I heat it with a wood stove when I want to work out there in winter, but I have one of those small oil filled electric heaters that I turn on in October and leave on. It will keep the shop from freezing anything. My shop is too small!

[TXGunNut]

Are you going to seal the slab? Sometimes they add the sealer to the concrete but I can't get my head around that. A smooth finish and a coat of sealer makes clean-up easier and reduces dust.

Looking good!

[MaryB]

This isn't a stick built garage, it is a pole barn and the slab goes in next to last. They got it in today, fought the weather all day and ended with a ripple I am not liking... will see how it look in daylight tomorrow when I can walk on it.

You can see it in the back right corner...

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151028_1710289911_zpswlkis03o.jpg

[jsizemore]

Is it where the power float couldn't get in the corner? If it's not too big a hand held power grinder can take care of it.

[Petrol & Powder]

I could live with that.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm sorry but every time I see a power trowel I can't help but to think about this video.
The audio is better than the video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyXZbGy6qvw

[MaryB]

It is out far enough they could reach it, think it was the new guy who stood in one spot to long. He wasn't the brightest... I was framing up a form for a tower base(ham radio) they were going to pour at the same time and he asked why I needed it... 5 minutes after I said I was going back to frame up a form for the tower base... you can see the tower base and bolts on the form so it could be dropped into the hole

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151028_1440147561_zpsyvhryeq3.jpg

[Plate plinker]

looks pretty good to me. power trowel man knows how to run the pattern so i like that.

Did you mean a low spot or high spot? not sure what ripple means?

[MaryB]

Low and high, 3 stripes like waves in the right rear corner. Not as noticeable now that the top has dried but definitely not level.

[Petrol & Powder]

I hope you put an "L" on the bottom of those anchors before you poured that antenna base.

[kudoo]

Mary your not to far from me, hope your new pole barn gets done before it gets to cold.

[Plate plinker]

well if the spots are a real issue like mentioned above you can grind them out or fill with a product call Ardex. Arden is probably the best repair stuff I ever used. If the floor is clean it really holds even a thin skim layer hold well. Ardex smells a bit and generally will ruin the trowels if not cleaned off frequently (tough stuff to remove once dried). I strongly recommend this product for filling low spots or pitted out spots too.

[MaryB]

Anchors came with a large hex shape welded on the bottoms. 2 inches in diameter, pull that out and the house is going to be gone too! Those bolts are 1" diameter!


I hope you put an "L" on the bottom of those anchors before you poured that antenna base.

[MaryB]

If it is to bad I call the concrete guys and ask them to come fix it! :bigsmyl2: under warranty after all! 5 years no defects or they come fix it!


well if the spots are a real issue like mentioned above you can grind them out or fill with a product call Ardex. Arden is probably the best repair stuff I ever used. If the floor is clean it really holds even a thin skim layer hold well. Ardex smells a bit and generally will ruin the trowels if not cleaned off frequently (tough stuff to remove once dried). I strongly recommend this product for filling low spots or pitted out spots too.

[Bad Water Bill]

When I had the garage floor pored I said that it was to drain out the back door.

Well for some reason the water insisted on draining out of the FRONT door.

Now the contractor had a problem,jack up a 2 1/2 car garage and bust up the 6" of concrete or find some way to make me happy so he could get paid.

He decided to pour a large apron at the front AND concrete drive to the street 100' away.

If you are not happy (YOU have to live with it forever) get him to make YOU smile before you sign the final check.

[Superfly]

Where is the water drains ????

[MaryB]

No longer allowed in MN, idiots were pouring oil into them...

[Petrol & Powder]

Anchors came with a large hex shape welded on the bottoms. 2 inches in diameter, pull that out and the house is going to be gone too! Those bolts are 1" diameter!
Caught it !!

I couldn't see the bottom of those anchors in the grass. You're right, if that gets pulled up you have bigger problems.

[MaryB]

Yeah I should have mowed once more but longer the grass is going into deep freeze the better it winters over. My lawn is always one of the first to green up. Just hope the manufacturer gets that tower here before snow!

[MaryB]

I got the garage door programmed for the stops on Tuesday. Started on the ceiling conduit after the garage door and ran out of light on Tuesday too! Was to cold and wet yesterday and with 2 windows still missing I couldn't put any heat in there that helped with a 40mph wind.

They came today and put in the last 2 windows(had to work around stuff I had to start moving in) and got the wall insulation in along with the inside purlins for the liner steel. Next time they come back they put on the liner steel and blow insulation in the ceiling then things are done for this year.

The long aluminum things are four antennas for 144mhz and 1 for 432mhz(ham radio!) and the aluminum tubes are for the H frame to hold the four 144mhz antennas. Also can see my corn auger on the floor(I took it off its rolling frame for storage, it will get a heavy duty set of wall hangers to go on) and my new cherry picker that I use for heavy lifting like the above auger. I held off moving stuff in but they were forecasting ice/rain and I did not need the antennas sitting in slush. Can see the start of the wiring conduit on the ceiling, will pick away at that more this weekend. I need to get a new fish tape for pulling wire too. Friend borrowed my old one and he brought it back all snarled and bent up...

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151112_1459145941_zpsqwalbzks.jpg

[TXGunNut]

Looking good!

[Bad Water Bill]

Watch that thermos bottle as the company told me they no longer honor the lifetime guarantee.

Yes I have at least 4 I should have sent back but now will go to the scrap yard instead.

Now tell us how the heating project is progressing?

[MaryB]

Haven't decided on a heater yet... I have a backup propane heater I use for the house that is 40,000 BTU and as heavily insulated as that garage is going to be it will be enough to make it comfortable on the days I need to work out there. Really cold weather I may fire it up and let it run for 4-5 hours then shut it down just to keep things above freezing. Soon as the door was closed today heat from the slab still curing raised the temp in there 10 degrees! The guy working today said he doesn't heat his garage at all and it stayed above freezing last winter and it was about the same size as mine. I am going to put a recording thermometer out there and track temps this winter and see how it goes. Windows are all double pane too!

[Plate plinker]

I insulated my garage,but have yet to purchase a heater and can tell you that unless the temps remain in the mid teens or less for more that a couple of days it stays above freezing in there. You will not need much to heat your new garages long as the doors and windows are fairly tight.

[MaryB]

Windows are all double pane, door is R16. After 2 inches of rain the guys didn't have any other jobs they could work on so I won the lets go finish lottery. All that is left is blow insulation into the attic space. All the wall steel is up, window and door trim in, everything caulked... View from the open garage door. I would have taken the picture from further back but it was pouring rain! All the material was soaking wet as it was brought in so I am going to heat it tomorrow to dry it out inside.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/IMG_20151117_1539397531_zpsgkuoqhr8.jpg

[Just Duke]

This has been a great build Mary.
What all will go in there?

[Wayne Smith]

Sure looks smaller when you close it in, doesn't it!

[rondog]

Sure looks smaller when you close it in, doesn't it!
Sure does.....

[waynem34]

how many outlets did u install and other data outlets if any?

[MaryB]

Just starting on the wiring, going to all be surface mounted in conduit for easy changes. No need for data out there, my cell phone has unlimited data for the little I may need it out there plus my wireless network can be picked up in there.

Truck is going in there along with the lawn equipment(mower and snowblower), and my wood shop. I often need wood pieces for the laser and now I will have space to work on stuff without needing to drag a table saw out on the deck if I need to cut a sheet of plywood. Current shop is the 12x16 shed off my deck that also holds all the lawn chairs, tables, smoker, Weber grills... No room to even turn around in there!

[Petrol & Powder]

That's a nice set up! I like the metal interior. Bright, fire resistant, will not rot and easier to install than sheet rock. With that light colored finish and those windows you will not need as much lighting.

Any thoughts of sealing that concrete floor after it cures completely?

[MaryB]

I am thinking one of the epoxy floor coatings so I can get oil off easy. Now that I have a garage I know a friend will be over to do his oil changes in it. His garage is to low to jack up a truck or van in.

[Petrol & Powder]

Those epoxy finishes are nice. Easy to clean up and tough. You can add sand to the epoxy to make it non-slip but then you can't use a squeegee to push water out the door as well and it's harder to sweep up dust. I'd go with the epoxy without the grit.

I do think the concrete must be completely cured before you apply them. If you plan on using epoxy try to keep oil off the floor until you can get it down.

That's a nice building you have ! Good job !

[Bad Water Bill]

Might want to put down a large plastic tarp till the concrete warms up enough for the epoxy to properly cure as well.

Check on the cure conditions on your selected epoxy and in the meantime decide if you want a clear coat or possibly if available white for cleaning up .

[Greg S]

Generally it is 30 - 90 days cure for concrete to coat. Read the application instructions, they should have all the details in there..

[Skunk1]

I did a 26x40. Not big enough!!! 2 old 60's fords and 2 jeeps + all my hoarding stuff=full. Hopefully adding on in a few years.

[xs11jack]

Oh, boy, I got a bad case of shed envy.
Ole Jack

[MaryB]

It will be next spring before I can coat the floor, heading into winter i need to be able to park in there!