My attempt at making real NRA lube

[bigjake]

I cooked off most of the solvent in a quart of Alox the same kind Lee sells. Then I let it finish drying and hardening. Its consistantcy is that of soft wax. I plan on melting down equal portions of bees wax and hardened alox.
What will this turn out like? does it need something else to make it softer/stickier?

thanks

[Outpost75]

It will work fine. The Alox 606 used in the Lee lube is a bit different than the old 2138F, but gives very similar results.
A 50-50 ratio by melted volume is what I use and it works fine.

Another lube I use with fine results is 1 part Castrol synthetic ATF to FOUR parts of beexwax. Similar to the old M&N lube.

[Yodogsandman]

I think I've read that there was also paraffin wax, too. I wonder how Lee, Lyman or White Label makes theirs?

[Outpost75]

I think I've read that there was also paraffin wax, too. I wonder how Lee, Lyman or White Label makes theirs?

Paraffin wax MUST be used with a plasticizer. It works well in a 50-50 ratio by melted liquid volume with anhydrous lanolin to be used as a beeswax substitute in other lubes. I have successfully used the 50-50 paraffin-lanolin mixture with a bit of ATF to make a nice soft lube which works well for pan lubing and will perform in high velocity loads to 2000 fps.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

My attempt at making real NRA lube
Did you use Alox 350 ? or Lee's Liquid Alox?

Cooked down Lee's Liquid Alox and beeswax, will probably make a OK boolit lube, but I do believe the different aloxes are different enough to be different.

Also, There are two REAL NRA lubes.

NRA 50/50
50 % Beeswax
50 % Alox 350 (Originally Alox 2138F, now discontinued)


Old NRA lube formula:
1 part Beeswax
1 part Paraffin
1 part Vaseline


FYI, The old one, with an addition of ivory soap is quite an excellent lube, so I'm told by a former member who I respect ...but I have not tried it. Search 666+1 or Satan's lube for 357Maximum's recipe.

[Larry Gibson]

bigjake

A year + ago I made a batch of 50/50 lube using alox 606 and beeswax. It's been a very good lube for handguns and rifles up to 2400 fps. So far I've not tested it at higher velocity. It works fine in a Lyman 450 Lubrasizer.

Larry Gibson

[castalott]

I've made and used the old NRA formula.... I remember it being very soft on a cold day and downright liquid on a warm day. I don't remember any leading problems but this was the early 80's and I'm trying to forget some of it....

[bigjake]

I'm not sure if its alox 350 or 606 I didn't look at the can. It came in a 5 gal. can from Lubrizol and we use it like you would cosmoline in the old days to prevent rust. it dries and smells just like lee's LL.
When I cook it off with a double boiler for about 1 hr. or more, when it cools it gets more solid quicker because a lot of the solvent has cooked away.
I'm looking for a lube that is pretty hard that will work in a lube/sizer or pan lubing with a kake kuter.

[Larry Gibson]

bigjake

Here is the formula I used;

50% beeswax
46.5% Alox 606
3.5% Micro Wax

The original Alox 2138F had micro-wax in it, the 606 and 350 alox's do not. That's why the formula I use adds the micro-wax. I use a double boiler (sauce pan with water with a 1 qt Pyrex measuring cup in it) on an electric stove. I first melt the beeswax and then add the alox and micro-wax stirring until it is all melted. I then pour it into and old cookie sheet which gives a large sheet of lube about 3/8" thick. I let it cool thoroughly and then cut it into strips just shorter than the well on the 450 lubrasizer and just wide enough to wrap around the pressure spindle in the well. It's easy to refill the lubrasizer that way w/o having to remelt the lube to pour into it or to make "hollow sticks" out of it.

This lube has the consistence of BAC and is a little harder and less tacky that most commercial "NRA 50/50" lubes. It works very well in the Lyman 450 and should also work quite well pan lubing.

Larry Gibson

[bigjake]

Larry, what is micro wax? I have the 606 and bees wax ready to melt

Here is the formula I used;

50% beeswax
46.5% Alox 606
3.5% Micro Wax

The original Alox 2138F had micro-wax in it, the 606 and 350 alox's do not. That's why the formula I use adds the micro-wax. I use a double boiler (sauce pan with water with a 1 qt Pyrex measuring cup in it) on an electric stove. I first melt the beeswax and then add the alox and micro-wax stirring until it is all melted. I then pour it into and old cookie sheet which gives a large sheet of lube about 3/8" thick. I let it cool thoroughly and then cut it into strips just shorter than the well on the 450 lubrasizer and just wide enough to wrap around the pressure spindle in the well. It's easy to refill the lubrasizer that way w/o having to remelt the lube to pour into it or to make "hollow sticks" out of it.

This lube has the consistence of BAC and is a little harder and less tacky that most commercial "NRA 50/50" lubes. It works very well in the Lyman 450 and should also work quite well pan lubing.

Larry Gibson

[/QUOTE]

[Larry Gibson]

It's a hardner/binder. I had a hard time finding it out here. Candle makers and larger hobby shops may have it. A member here sent me some as minimum ordering via internet gets you way more than needed. Run the formula and let me know how much you need. I may be able to send it to you.

Larry Gibson

[bigjake]

Larry, I don't know how much harder this needs to be. I cooked out the solvent that's in the 606. when the cooked 606 gets cold its pretty hard like sticky wax. then add the bees wax, then its even harder. so, if I add micro wax, it will be concrete :). no really, does the 606-beeswax need to be stiffer?

[runfiverun]

adding in micro-wax or paraffin is optional.
if you however add in some canning paraffin you will change the flow property's of the lube.
paraffin has the ability to go from a solid to full flow in about a nano second when it's exposed to heat and pressure.
if your lube is too hard I would just add in some Vaseline, it will improve the softness and lower the flow/melt point of the lube a little.

[Larry Gibson]

Might just try it with out the micro wax then. I only used it because it was in the formula and several said the micro wax was mostly a "binder". It sure worked well for me. I've been using NRA formula lube (Javelina & Tamarac mostly) with great success for cast bullets from 300 to 2500 fps. I've also had very good performance from LLA when it is applied correctly. Never found getting too complicated with lubes to be of any benefit. Done a lot of testing and except for my HV cast bullets I've always found 50/50 to fit the bill. I use Lar's 2500+ in my HV (2500+ fps) loads. I'm also finding a fondness for BAC for handgun loads down here in the desert. The tad bit harder BAC (uses the 50/50 lube as a base with a bit of Carnauba Red added) isn't quite as gooey when loading in 90 - 110 degree weather. The NRA 50/50 I made using the micro wax has about the same "hardness" as BAC as I mentioned before and I'm finding it to be a good lube also.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

in my moly complex lube I use about 10% micro-wax for the reason that it flows under pressure.
it makes it across the gap in a rifles throat and then starts to flow which is exactly what you want a lube to do.

one of the issues I have been trying to chase down is controlling the thixotropicness of a lube.
I really have a feeling [I know] that a lube going from soft to a full flow and staying that way is a huge benefit.
being able to control or manipulate when [and for how long] that happens, is the real key to tuning a lube that can be used in everything under all temp conditions.

[alamogunr]

Several years ago, Ken Mollohan PM'd me with instructions on making NRA lube with Alox 350. His instructions listed the ingredients by weight and I forget the amount of micro wax to use. It wasn't much.

I have all the ingredients but since I had a pretty good supply of 2138F, I haven't actually made a batch using the Alox 350. The little 2-3 lb bucket of micro-wax beads should last a long time when I do run out of Alox 2138F. NRA formula lube is about all I've ever needed since I don't push things to the limit and don't encounter temperature extremes.

I hope when I need to start using the Alox 350 that I can find Molly's instructions. They were so simple that even I could follow them.

[fryboy]

Several years ago, Ken Mollohan PM'd me with instructions on making NRA lube with Alox 350. His instructions listed the ingredients by weight and I forget the amount of micro wax to use. It wasn't much.

I have all the ingredients but since I had a pretty good supply of 2138F, I haven't actually made a batch using the Alox 350. The little 2-3 lb bucket of micro-wax beads should last a long time when I do run out of Alox 2138F. NRA formula lube is about all I've ever needed since I don't push things to the limit and don't encounter temperature extremes.

I hope when I need to start using the Alox 350 that I can find Molly's instructions. They were so simple that even I could follow them.

7% , it's in several threads , the search pulls up alot of them here's the first one i grabbed ( albeit wilgen posted it on this one )
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?93080-What-role-does-ALOX-do-in-a-bullet-lube

[alamogunr]

Thanks! I bookmarked the thread but I still want to find Molly's instructions. I know I have a file somewhere with many of his posts, articles, etc. He was a fount of information.