Basement relic, what is it?

[AndreaK]

We are cleaning out my Dad's estate and after all the nice stuff was handled, we found this relic in the basement ceiling cubby. It was separated into two pieces, we think intentionally disabled.
Belgium is on the top of the barrel, the number 24 is on the side. The close-up is of the only other markings we could see, rubbed with light chalk. (R with crown FL 22L fish?)
The barrel measures 23" long, octagon.

149031 149032149033149034149035

Any idea what this is?
What should we do to preserve it's current condition?

Thanks,
AndreaK

[Rustyleee]

It looks interesting.

[dragonrider]

slug the barrel and cerrosafe the chamber, should tell you something.

[rking22]

Google "Flobert" , think thats the spelling. Parlor rifles from 100 years ago. Had one arround when I was growing up ,always fasinicated me but is not even up to modern 22LR pressures.

[curator]

Flobert was a popular inexpensive rim fire rifle around the turn of the century, 1899-1900. They were made in Belgium and France in many (mostly) rim fire cartridges from .22CB to 9mm shotgun. They are still much used in rural France and Eastern European countries for varmint control and "dinky" bird hunting. Thousands of these were imported into the US in the early 1900s. Flobert actually invented the .22 rim fire cartridge in 1845, with his "Bulleted Breech Cap" which was similar to the .22 short but firing a round ball. Your gun marked .22 L probably pre-dated the introduction of the .22 Long Rifle Cartridge in 1887.

[Mk42gunner]

I agree with the Flobert, not so sure about .22 Long chambering. I would be more inclined to bet it was chambered for either .22 BB or CB originally.

Regardless, I would not attempt to fire it with modern high speed loads. When that was built .22's were still at black powder ballistics, i.e. no high velocity loads (read that as high pressure, gun breakers). No real fault of the designers, even the Marlin lever action and the Colt Woodsman (and it was designed by John Browning) had to be strengthened to use .22LR HV.

I would clean it up, put some cheap sights on it and use it for a wall hanger only.

Robert

[bubba.50]

as stated, it is a flobert. and yer description of it as a "relic" is very apt. clean it up & hang it on the wall in memory of dad.

[claude]

[smilie=1:Just for what it's worth, I don't think you're going to get that NIB look to fly.:kidding:

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, it's a Flobert, and you have been given some entirely accurate safety warnings. It isn't just a matter of strength. There was no very urgent reason for it to be give the rim and firing-pin indentation the sort of support that is needed nowadays, and very likely it doesn't. It is a pity, for a lot of them were quite well made, as this one appears to be. I'd fire it with CB caps if I could find them (I wear glasses anyway), but emphatically not even the modern .22 Short.

Those are Belgian Liége proofmarks, and the fish (although a charming description) is an oval with ELG for épreuve Liége, the proofmark. The crown on that oval means it is post-1893. There are some indications that it could be post-1899, and therefore not an antique in US law, although none of them are conclusive, and I doubt if anybody is looking for trouble over one of these.

I think the Æ with star, identical to one I have on a Martini, is the inspector's mark, which could be any letter of the alphabet. (Æ is reckoned as a single letter.) The importance of this is that the crowned R therefore isn't the inspector's mark, and means it is rifled. Some weren't. What some are taking for an L in .22 Long look more like a C. I'm nearly sure that means "Court" for short, or it might be the cursive year letter for 1924. The crowned R was supposed to begin being applied to rifled long guns under 8mm. in that year, but that doesn't sound terribly conclusive to me. I wouildn't be surprised if Flobers were among the firearms that didn't make it back into production after German occupation in the First World War.

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

Here is an excellent site on Belgian firearms, although if you speak French it is worth finding that version, as it is sometimes easier than their English. I expect you can find some Flobert rifles by hunting through the known and unknown manufacturers. But you won't find Flobert as one of them, as that was only a design.

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a%20a%20site%20belge%20gb.htm

Here are some marks very much like yours, on an optimistic-looking repeating Martini, which offers useful support for your letter C meaning short, and your rifle very likely pre-1899.

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20non%20identifies/a%20artisans%20inconnus%20carabine%20martiny%20rep etition%20gb.htm

Who actually made your gun has probably been lost forever. That many of these guns were sold to the USA, with a flourishing trade in domestic .22s, shows that they were cheap, and hand work, like that rather good checkering, doesn't prove otherwise. You have to remember that Belgium had no West and no gold rushes, and Leopold's Congo richly earned the reputation of being the worst governed country in the world. Hand workers on firearms tended to stay in the same field all their working lives, and not just the key workers you'd find in the high-end London or Birmingham trade, but men doing basic work quickly and doing it well, where the Americans would find machines preferable. A lot of the work was subcontracted out to smaller firms or individuals in their homes, or complete guns could be bought in and marked not just with a gunshop's name, but the name of a "manufacturer" who in fact didn't.

[rondog]

Wallhanger.

[AndreaK]

Ballistics: Thanks for your detailed response. I need to dig in more after the family is settled for the evening.

I do appreciate everyone's safety concerns. It's a wallhanger not a shooter!

Thanks,
Andrea