45-70 trapdoor and swiss

[49FMarlin]

Im shooting 55g of 1fg swiss with a lyman #457193 and #457132 molds, no crimp, milk carton wad,

I'm looking to close up my groups, 100 and 200 yards,
I'm still working on my Grains in my loads, so the 55g is just an average,
pic is at 100yds and my grouping bites, i know, probably me not the gun?
shooting bench-rested at the front

would it be beneficial to move to 2FG swiss?

[Paul_R]

I don't think you can hurt anything and there's only one way to find out if it's beneficial for your particular rifle....

[Bent Ramrod]

You may need more powder. My standard loading for Swiss in the .45-70 is 63 gr of 1-1/2 Fg. I used both the Government 525 gr roundnose and the Paul Jones 548 gr Creedmoor.

[49FMarlin]

thanks guys gonna give it a try

[Nobade]

That is a very weak load. 70 gr. will fit, but you have to use a compression die. Makes a difference though, and shoots a lot better.

-Nobade

[curator]

Not wanting to slam Lyman molds but Trapdoor rifles have groove diameters of .460-.465" and neither of these molds will cast that size. You might try the Lee .459-405HB mold that casts around .462" without modifications. Lyman bullet #457132 has a relatively long "bore-ride" nose that has to be well supported to fly well and may lack stability with the trapdoor's 1 in 22" twist unless pushed to 1200fps or so. I struggled for years with Lyman's #457125 (similar design but less pointy-- casting measured .459 body/.450 nose) and only found success after lapping the mold to cast .462 (body) and 454 (nose). Eureka moment followed! The Lee boolit shot great from the get-go.

[kokomokid]

I shoot with several that use 57-58 grains of swiss 1 1/2 all the way to the ram line. Curator has it right , bullet fit and length for twist has to be correct.

[Don McDowell]

Jump the charge to at least 65 grs, 70 probably better. A .060 thick vegifiber wad under the bullet.
What are you using for lube? What are you doing for fouling control?

[Toymaker]

I use the Lyman 457193 bullet (Beagled) over Goex FFg so I use more powder and more compression. However, a friend has the same rifle as I do and shoots the same bullet over Swiss 1 1/2 - I don't remember his powder charge, but it's more than 55 grains. I do remember that he compresses 1/8 inch because Swiss does not like to be compressed as much as Goex.

[49FMarlin]

Lyman 457132
100 yrds
sized to 457, SPG lube, Swiss 55gr CCI-large pistol primer
first three shots grouped good, right two shot after, is more me than the rifle,i breathed-farted-flinched,or did a mid heartbeat-trigger pull
jumping up in 3 gr increments,tomorrow

the shots at 53gr were wide-spread,
going up to
60 slowly

I've also been told to try a DUPLEX LOAD, 4gr of smokeless -IMR 4227-or 4759and then 45gr GOEX 2F
have yet to try it,

[kokomokid]

My trapdoor will never see a duplex load as long as I shoot it.

[varsity07840]

Lyman 457132
100 yrds
sized to 457, SPG lube, Swiss 55gr CCI-large pistol primer
first three shots grouped good, right two shot after, is more me than the rifle,i breathed-farted-flinched,or did a mid heartbeat-trigger pull
jumping up in 3 gr increments,tomorrow

the shots at 53gr were wide-spread,
going up to
60 slowly

I've also been told to try a DUPLEX LOAD, 4gr of smokeless -IMR 4227-or 4759and then 45gr GOEX 2F
have yet to try it,

IMHO, .457 is way too small for a TD. My '88 TD has a.4638 groove size.

Duane

[tdoor4570]

The load that I used in my 1884 trapdoor was 70 grs. pyrodex RS using a Lee 457-405-F cast. could take out a pop can at 100 easy. using the same load in my 1884 dantish rolling block now milk jug at 100 is easy .

[ian45662]

If you have access to dead soft lead and want a highly accurate plinking load make ya some bullet with dead soft lead and sized to 458. 35 grains of 3F with a little cream of wheat as filler will yield great accuracy out to 100 yards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqK7A3E6a5I There is a video of me shooting this load. Also on my channel you will find more detail on how I make those loads