Hardline Industries??

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Ok I have to admit I have not been keeping up 100% with the goings on here but I can not get hold of any one at Hardline, and saw there was some issue going on in the recent past but the phone is Non-op and emails go with out answer??
Did they already have to close down??

This is not intended to stir up any bad blood, or get any one upset, I just need to conclude some business with them and hoping to hear back from them a while back.

Their banner is gone, the web site is still up but that's about it.

Any one with more info please contact me, as to where or what might be going on. Since I can't get the items I needed from my local Az bullet machine co. then I was hoping to give these guys some money and get what I needed, and ""yes"" I could not get Ballista to get it it done either .

[Littleton Shot Maker]

so along these lines: Ballistacast is gone!
Hardline is Non-op.
Magma is not an option!
I found N V Ballistics , found out they where making some of Bill's stuff at Ballista...not anymore, ties cut last year!

Is there any other Co. out there that make sizer lubers- and casters, that have been around and know what they are doing??

Man I go off line and get out of making bullets for a couple years and now all this....crazy

[lobowolf761]

If you are looking for custom lube sizer dies try S&S firearms. They will make the size you want and are compatible with Lyman and RCBS lube sizer presses.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

I have a ton of dies, thanks.
It has more to do with stuff I sent them and now I can't find them to get my stuff back.....along with some small stuff like a 150 -220# pound pot I've been trying to get made BY them also to feed our BIG shot maker...
Found a Co. called Wagge that can do that , but would like my stuff back.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

not that most folks here will care,
spent a couple hours sending out PM's, emails, and looking at face book and public records

Seems that I have a short list of folks to call in the morning that look to be his family members, maybe I can get him to contact me after I call them up asking about how he is doing now and if he might be able to have a visit with me when I come up the N.D. very soon.

'they seem to have run a couple out fits from the same address, so maybe this will have to be 1st call, then see what happens?
One place is a hunting lodge, I can roll up there looking to shoot ducks and have a short talk with them or maybe even Derek will be there ??

why do folks get into the business when they have no back ground in the industry?? even if you "are" an engineer, that's not all it takes to run a company and keep doors open, Tried to warn then he was in the deep end now and he was way over his head.

DID any one get one of the famous bullets casters from them ever?? Feel like I am ******* in the wind and I don;t like it one bit.

time to take my blood pressure meds and chill out for a bit- NOW where 'is' that bottle of Beam I had for those special days????

[chloe123]

I can empathize with the frustration(see my prev posts), but take a second and think about the big picture. It's not the end of the world and you don't want to spend more time being aggravated. I probably have some phone numbers from several team members archived in my phone. But, when it comes down to it, they're not interested in chatting/accounting for past orders. I bet you can think of better things worth thinking about.




not that most folks here will care,
spent a couple hours sending out PM's, emails, and looking at face book and public records

Seems that I have a short list of folks to call in the morning that look to be his family members, maybe I can get him to contact me after I call them up asking about how he is doing now and if he might be able to have a visit with me when I come up the N.D. very soon.

'they seem to have run a couple out fits from the same address, so maybe this will have to be 1st call, then see what happens?
One place is a hunting lodge, I can roll up there looking to shoot ducks and have a short talk with them or maybe even Derek will be there ??

why do folks get into the business when they have no back ground in the industry?? even if you "are" an engineer, that's not all it takes to run a company and keep doors open, Tried to warn then he was in the deep end now and he was way over his head.

DID any one get one of the famous bullets casters from them ever?? Feel like I am ******* in the wind and I don;t like it one bit.

time to take my blood pressure meds and chill out for a bit- NOW where 'is' that bottle of Beam I had for those special days????

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Yes you are right-
I'd don't like the way it gone so far. And would just rather not be out the amount of money that the items Derek has will cost me-
If it where the cost of a mold or two okay...but not the 1k I am out if he does not get back to me with my product...
not just frustrated but feel like I've been lied to and stolen from- I am good now-
still want my machines back but life goes on...
Plus it goes a bit deeper, there was talk they wanted to 'Buy' me out - take over production, build under license, sell retail and wholesale, let me retire--That part is a joke of course etc...

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Who is Mike Sand??
is/ was this Derek's partner??

never mind answered my own question - For while I thought Derek was Bill's son- I had it wrong
will try to contact Mike Sands Via Bill , i think his phone still works, maybe find my equipment - get it back home - No drama I hope.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Issue is being dealt with - expect all to work out , glad I did my detective work. It pays to NEVER give up!!

[Jack Stanley]

If it's any help to you , sending a history you've had with them to the attorney general of your state and theirs may likely help .

Jack

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Jack
thanks, and truth be told that might be one way to get things done , but I have no confidence in those agencies, sorry.
It might even be the adult approach too BUT that is not me.

No I just placed a few calls, made contact and worked it out like grown men do, maybe not face to face but the message was clear and with out being overly rude with the wrong individuals, and no bad blood, as I was just making sure Derek had not forgotten to ship those back , I only did this is such an open format because I needed some help getting cell number or address.

I'm just in the last 24 hrs Finding out things went south for them, and for B.C. it was just not known to me as I don't frequent the forums ( just the cast for shotguns) nor had I any prior knowledge of their problems that forced shut the doors...

It's a big task for any one to get into building machines to cast bullets like these out fits where doing. Though I would have made many changes to the BC machine, some folks like them and now support for those machine and the others will be that more stressful on those owners if the need for UNIQUE parts come up.

I hope NV Ballistic will be able make spare for those folks, I did not go into details with the owner there but he suggested I call back and speak to Keith, the head guy in the works dept. Yeah. good deal.

bottom line the shot makers are coming back, and that is all I needed from them.

I did not have any molds or machines on order so my position in the sequences of events and what has and I guess still taking place is much different than folks here on the forum. I am truly sorry Good shooters, hard working Patriots and fellow bullet casters got the shank by the action or failure of action that took place.
Maybe NV Bal. will be the answer for future casters.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Up until late May/early June Derek and I would exchange newsy E-Mails about work and his new born besides the world in general. Then the E-Mails stopped, I started hearing `things` about their works. In late June when I couldn`t get ahold of Derek by phone or shop E-Mail about the status of my simple 2 cavity mold that I had ordered the previous November - I cancelled my order both by phone message and business E-Mail. I think waiting 9 months for a simple design mold is a bit long, irregardless of machinery calibrations they claimed and another time the new CNC wouldn`t make straight lines - I sat by with understanding. It was the sudden halt of communication about anything happening that prompted my cancellation.Robert

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Robert- pm inbound please respond- at your leisure ,

I have been pmed by folks that I'd like to say thanks to , your help & insight are very much appreciated .

For any one that does have their molds? ARE they any good??
I suppose I could go back and try to find good posts to see HOW many where sold and folks happy vs. folks not happy with what they got and the WHY NOT?

I want their cherries and tooling, left over parts if any.

I wanted one of the Hand casters, since I have *(other brand goes here)* I was looking to replace with new gear, these items had, have appeal to me.

IF you have the hand caster do you like it??
If you have their molds are you happy?
Did they work ??
I want to know about the sizers? Who has one? DO you like those??

Thanks for the input and or 1st hand knowledge of the Hardline product line.

[castalott]

The mold I have from them is first class. Quality up there with Mihec. I wanted 3 more but have no idea what happened. I really wanted them to succeed.....

Dale

[Hardcast416taylor]

They did a mold replacement run of the ill fated 7mm Thor mold by a previous owner of before Hardline. I believe the total number of those molds was between 25 and 30. I have one of those molds although I have not used it, ill health, to say how it functions. Then again just about anything would be better than the `paper weights` original Thor molds. This replacement of this mold run took longer to complete due to various reason they kept coming up with. I`ve also heard that they never completed making replacement molds for all the group buy people that bought into the original.Robert

[Littleton Shot Maker]

I would have liked getting the 'table top caster' , did those get out? Looked cool from what I saw online but not seeing it person just makes it hard to be certain.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Robert- pm inbound please respond- at your leisure ,

I have been pmed by folks that I'd like to say thanks to , your help & insight are very much appreciated .

For any one that does have their molds? ARE they any good??
I suppose I could go back and try to find good posts to see HOW many where sold and folks happy vs. folks not happy with what they got and the WHY NOT?

I want their cherries and tooling, left over parts if any.

I wanted one of the Hand casters, since I have *(other brand goes here)* I was looking to replace with new gear, these items had, have appeal to me.

IF you have the hand caster do you like it??
If you have their molds are you happy?
Did they work ??
I want to know about the sizers? Who has one? DO you like those??

Thanks for the input and or 1st hand knowledge of the Hardline product line.
Are you asking about Hardline specifically?
Or Derek's and Mike's manufacturing skills ?

I can't speak to Hardline, but I got in on a Ballisti-Cast group buy (Derek and Mike runnin' the place) in the Spring of 2012. For all the details, read this thread, it has all the customer feedback you could ever want to read ...and more. The synopsis is, most of the buyers were happy with the mold quality, a few were not...But we all waited quite a long time.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?145899-Ballisti-Cast-Buyer-s-Choice-Group-Buy

I got my mold on Christmas Eve, here are some photos. I will say, it's an awesome looking mold with excellent machining. It did take some "breakin" time, before I got use to casting with it, but after 3 sessions, I can say it is one of my favorite molds. I don't know what kind of steel they used, but even with nearly airtight storage containers for all my Iron molds, this one will develop a surface rust fairly quickly if I don't coat it with oil. My Lyman's and Seaco's and RCBS's and H&G's don't do that.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176234-Christmas-Eve-was-feelin-a-sad-and-alone-til-the-UPS-man-delivered&highlight=

[Hardcast416taylor]

Just for laughs and giggles I checked on the Thor mold they made and sent to me. I store my unused molds in zip-lock bags with a film of light oil. Having never used this mold I was surprised to find a film of rust on the sprue plate and body halves. The inside was still fine, but I rubbed the mold down and re-oiled the whole thing. Yes, none of my other molds from different makers showed any signs of any type of rust.Robert

[Love Life]

I have a couple Hardline Industries moulds. They are darn near perfect and worth every penny paid for them. I really hate to hear of their troubles as their iron moulds are/were really good.

[mozeppa]

i have 8 molds which took almost 9 months to get.

i really wanted them to succeed as well, because the molds i got are really well made.
sprue plate is thicker than anybodys ...1/4" thick

once up to temp hardly ever a cull.

[youngmman]

I ordered an H&G #34 style mold from Ballisti-Cast, their #634. The mold halves didn't mate so I had a really bad looking bullet so I sent it back (Sorry I don't have photos now but did post some earlier). They said they fixed it and sent it back to me.......I found no change so I sent it back again and called Mike Sand who actually owns the place but doesn't make the molds. He told me "In business the customer is always right even when he is wrong". He sent it back, I tried it then threw it away. Am I suprised they are out of business...Not even a little bit surprised.

I bought an H&G #34 clone from Hardline too. The bullets looked like ****, same problem with alignment, so I sent it back was told it was my fault so they sent it back. I haven't thrown it away yet but don't use it either.

Just for reference I have over 10 LBT molds/6 original H&G molds/several Lyman molds and Two Accurate steel molds and have no problems with any of them having cast hundreds of bullets with the same alloy I tried to use with the Ballisti-Cast and Hardline molds. I am more than willing to take responsibility for mistakes if they are truly mine. In these two cases I think not.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

years ago, many, I was driving in Oregon and drove past NEI and did a U turn right there. Stopped off to see Walt- we'd talked a couple time over the phone, sweet guy, He had me come see the shop watch him make some molds talked to me for a couple hours , great guy. Very smart, good humor loved that guy....he was OLD School and there just are NOT many left out like him.

Any way he let me pour a few bullets on some molds and showed me his secret lead flux, but the moral was he used to send bullets out with the molds so you could see what HE got and what YOU should be getting...NOT sure if he did that all the time but for that set of rifle molds we did that day sample went with molds. WOuld of loved to have been able to work for him and learn the trade.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Middle of the week, no answer to my problem , no calls back, spoke with Derek 2-3-4 times spoke with DAD Mike Roppel, not sure what it takes to get folks to HEAR what I am saying...

called a writter for a mag, HE OWES me a article for 3 years now. some thing or another comes up ,sick wife, broken down hunting dog, the editor etc....ok send back MY MACHINE!! About to drop a name here and that won;t look good for ""ME"" OR HIM>>>Them- Magazine Owners


I DON'T trust any one saying they write for SO AND SO or have BLOG and or RADIO show...don't care NO MORE!!! why do they want stuff to write about but won;t cough up one cent to pay for the items?
in 15 years you'd think I learned- this is 3-4 times now some Author has been sent bullets or shot machine - for .00 in return...I am getting old and tired of the BS in the ammo/bullets industry!!

Is this the NEW NORM?
Did any one need to talk to Derek, his old number is no good- I do have the "new" one-

May need to list that too, let folks start calling him 24-7-360.5 days- (I don't work for others on Christmas), July 4th or Nov 10th , or April fools day this should be the day we vote for those fools....

[Hardcast416taylor]

Remember the full page add they ran in Handloader magazine this last Winter? They were giving an additional 10% off your new 1st time order.Robert

[Littleton Shot Maker]

I found out the day after they did it, too late to get back their cash- told them to go out take the cash and set on fire, would do more good. I have had adds in a few mags over the 20+ years of doing bullets, ammo stuff- what a waste, GOOD for the rags , bad for my pockets...

Never again- same with Magazine writters- they have a name for what they do and I don;t want to say it here- "turn on your red light to see better when writing"?? all about the money they get from folks to write UNBIASSED article and then what they get paid from Mag to write the article...

HOW DO I KNOW? 'been told by a couple guys face to face, those guys never got FREE bullets to "try out" Ever. their name goes on the black list if any thing...

still waiting for a call from N.D.....still waiting...still...

[6bg6ga]

Sorry but I cannot say anything negative about the guys. I purchased a bullet sizer lubricator on a group buy and the quality was excellent. I purchased a Mark IV bullet caster from them and I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Personal opinion here.... I see no need to have even started this thread. It is my belief that if you have a beef you contact the party personally. If you cannot contact them you have your lawyer do it for you.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

No one asked to say bad, just tell truth-

Contact them?? that's funny , sorry - did that- tried for about a week- thank for your in put-

Had left calls and emails for over a month before I found out they shut door and shanked more than a couple guys....that's why I asked for help from other shooters, NOT lawyers-

Also glad to see you like their machine SO DID I, wish I could get one of those hand casters, still wish I had one, don;t like what I have-

I TOO am sorry to make thread AND if I am ""wrong"" please report me to mods, NOT my 1st infraction ( or 2nd or even 3rd) of rules! SOME folks had DEREK's number NOT THE listed one- that is now NON-Op.

It seems like more than a few folks want to to keep to PM - they don;t want to bag on these guys in public too...I do not think they will be coming back - if so the hill they have to climb will be tall

and I owe no one any thing, I live by my word not promises unkept.

Lawyer?? Man not another one of you guys really?? Yeah let me drop 200-300$ for him to speak softly to DEREK and Co. yeah right....better off going to their house, next to High way (***) and talking to Mike R. in person , they seem like good people- for real-

I offered to buy out the Line (right now). last week!! still waiting to see what they have , if any thing and if it is worth what they 'want' for it...really wanted the hand caster...still want one- the cutting tools-
The gear Might be good but the way they dropped the ball hurt every one .

[youngmman]

It's fine to keep issues private if there is some reasonable possibility of a resolution. However, with Hardline and Ballisti-Cast there isn't any reasonable probability of an amicable resolution so it is the duty of those who have losses and bad experiences to voice them so others can steer clear.

To say we should involve lawyers for the relatively modest amounts involved is nonsense since the lawyer will generally cost more than the loss. Yea, Yea, Yea, of course there are exceptions but not in my case.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

machines are now home. ONE looks like ***** and returned taken apart? scratched and dinged.....I have more to say, but won't- DONE!

[Hardline]

Alan,

Both of the machines were shipped out in the condition which they were sent. The one did acquire a small scratch (no dings) between having it at our facility in Grand Forks and moving it to Alsen. I took the dripper pan off of one of them in order to fit in the box. I apologize if you find the two screws and brackets a hassle to put back in. Creating a headache was not my intention. I am trying to solve them. The shot makers were well packaged with plenty of Styrofoam to separate and protect them . Was the box damaged?

As far as a product list, we just wrapped up with harvest. I have some other fires to put out first, but will get you a list in the immediate future.

Thank you,

Derek Roppel
Hardline Industries, Inc.

Alan you know my number, but for any of our other customers it is 701-256-4488 (Call from 7-9 am or after 7 pm CST).