Win Mod 94 - Old or new what would be your accuracy expectation?

[pertnear]

It would almost be a shame to put a scope on one of these, but what is the best accuracy you have ever got out of a Win 94/30-30 classic in any sight configuration? What is a good accuracy expectation for a '94? (i.e. off a bench any sight, jacket or cast)

TIA

[Hickok]

A 3 inch group at 100 yards with iron sights off a good bench rest. They can do much better, but that is a good starting point.

I find with lever actions, I get better groups if I rest the forearm in my hand and rest my hand on the front bag. If I rest the forearm itself on the bags, the lever rifles seem to want to jump and open up groups.

The drop of the rear buttstock tends to make these lever actions want to climb a bit under recoil off a bench.

[pietro]

.


Minute-of-deer-ear, as far away as I can shoot in my normal hunting area (buck-bedroom/swamp) - no more than 50-65yds - which my .30-30 M94 16" Trapper can do, easily.

(I only shoot at paper targets when I'm checking zero)


.

[outdoorfan]

A 3 inch group at 100 yards with iron sights off a good bench rest. They can do much better, but that is a good starting point.

I find with lever actions, I get better groups if I rest the forearm in my hand and rest my hand on the front bag. If I rest the forearm itself on the bags, the lever rifles seem to want to jump and open up groups.

The drop of the rear buttstock tends to make these lever actions want to climb a bit under recoil off a bench.

+1

And in my experience you will have to go through the rifle and look for bedding issues (to be fixed), as well as binding in the bands, etc. That can make a world of a difference. With the bedding and binding issues taken cared of, there's no reason the rifle can't do around MOA at 100 yards for 3-5 shots with a scope or good receiver sight.

[GabbyM]

Hickok pretty well nailed in I think.
My 94 AE just wears the original buckhorn sights. With the favorite all around bullet I have. The Saeco 150 FN. Over 26.0 grains of RL7. it will easily stay under three inches at 100 even with my sixty year old eyes. Past that range accuracy quickly degrades due to my inability to see what I'm shooting at. If I had my young eyes back I could shoot it farther. However since I have a rack of bolt guns with scopes mounted I just don't get myself concerned with weighing down the Win 94. The niche my 94 fills is that of a lightweight compact handy rifle. I have pondered mounting aperture sights. In the end I like the classic look and feel so don't really want to change that. But that's all a personal decision which will be based upon several factors. Not the least of which is simply the acuity of the shooters eyes. If one shoots much in the dusk or dark mounting some type of illuminated sight like a red dot or reflex may work out better.

[OnHoPr]

Under an inch with scope, all touching. Three shot group from a cold pre fouling shot/s barrel. Five shots around an inch. Barrel would heat up. I don't put more than four in while hunting and only three in an high powered rifle.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've owned a few Model 94s and 64s over the years, and like any rifle model, they've all shot a bit differently as far as accuracy goes. Never really bad, but certainly not to match rifle standards.

Sights, shooting technique as well as loads will all make a difference. I prefer Lyman or Redfield aperture sights for their repeatability and flexibility. With a good blade front sight with a square top I get a military sight picture that gives me the best chance of shooting small groups. With these two Pre 64 Winchesters using good quality jacketed bullets or well cast lead boolits they are generally 2 MOA rifles and sometimes turn in a 1 1/2 MOA group of a bench. They will both ring 10" gongs at 200 yards off hand with boring regularity. Of course sometimes they turn in a 3 MOA group too :roll:

[TXGunNut]

I'm pretty happy with 1.5" @ 50 yards with most leverguns. I have a few that will do a bit better but I'm the weak link in that chain. I don't do well with the semi-buckhorn sights found on most 94's so any 94 that shows promise gets fitted with tang or receiver sights and the rear sights go into a carefully marked bag in my parts box.
I've learned a few tricks to shooting leverguns; Hickok touched on one of them. The front rest is very important. Unlike Hickok I rest the front bag as close to the receiver as I can. If the bag moves, so does my point of impact. YMMV, use what works for you and your rifle.
Another thing I've noticed is the magazine tube. A bent mag tube that makes contact with the barrel at any point is a proven recipe for a wandering POI. First time I noticed this it was a very slight (I thought) contact near the muzzle. I missed it for several months while I was also dealing with scope issues and it was very frustrating. Straightening a tube is a delicate operation but it can pay dividends. I have an older 94 that is an exceptional shooter but only for one or two shots. It's headed for Goodsteel's shop soon and I'll ask him to replace the old battered mag tube as it has had a rough life, it's practically pressed against the barrel in more than a few places.
Another tip: rifles generally shoot better than carbines. Barrel bands seem to be a detriment to good accuracy in a levergun.

[lobogunleather]

My Winchesters have included a couple of 1894 rifles, half-a-dozen 94 carbines, and a Model 55 takedown. Most have had the original elevator rear sight, but a couple have receiver sights (which I prefer for hunting). I don't recall purchasing factory ammo in the past 30 years or so. Have used the Lee C309-170F exclusively.

From the bench I would expect any of these to shoot 3" to 4" groups at 100 yards as long as I do my part. Plenty accurate for the purpose.

[Char-Gar]

When you are talking about the potential or average accuracy of a Winchester 94, you need to differentiate between carbines and rifles. The carbines have the bands which will have an effect on accuracy as the barrel heats. In either form, these are hunting rifles and not bench rest rifles.

There are a couple of things to consider with these leverguns when we start to talk about accuracy. The first how how much and what kind of metal in attached under the barrel. The second is how many rounds are in the magazine and third is how it is held on the bench. All of these will have an effect on accuracy.

I measure accuracy at what the rifle will produce on demand with 5 shot groups on any given day. The occasional "fluke" groups or "bragging" groups indicate nothing.

You can expect the average Winchester 94 Carbine to deliver 3 to 4 MOA groups on a regular basis.

You can expect the average Winchester 94 Rifle to deliver groups about 1 MOA less than the carbine.

[Outpost75]

This is reality. Factory rifle. Improvised sandbag rest across the hood of the pickup at hunting camp. Sighters, and then a full tube after sight adjustment. No called fliers or other BS. Dad's pre-war 94 with peep.

148972148973

[OnHoPr]

148978

This pic is from when I was in the CBA. I was testing for barrel heat conditions as all target disciplines have a time frame. This is 33 gr of 4007ssc with WQ scrap Lee 180 gr boolits. These 40 shots were at 100 yds shot single feed and eckstration as fast as I could load and get the rifle on the bench rest with a quick on bull and pull the trigger. It may have been shot in less than 10 min. That's a shot every 15 seconds or less with the quick swab after 20 and no fouling shots from a cleaned cold bore from the start. The forearm wood got about as hot as a wood handled skillet after cooking a 10" high stack of flapjacks. This load shoots right about an inch or just below with my hunting alloy and from a cold fouled barrel taking my sweet time about it. AC 4064 shoots better and so does 4350 a little bit, but this powder was on sale for about $14 a lb. I am new to the cell phone and camera as well as the computer and just don't have the picture taking conditioning in me yet.

[KLR]

Mine shoots a little under 4 MOA. It's the same even if I remove everything in front of the receiver and shoot it single shot. I'm considering installing a heavier barrel just to see what will happen.

Remember: Shot placement is the most important aspect of hunting, yet "minute-of-deer" is good enough...

[Blackwater]

It's been a good while now, but I once had a '39 issue M-64 (same as the M-94 but with longer, more tapered barrel, half mag and a pistol grip stock accredited to Townsend Whelen) and with a Lyman peep and 1/32" white bead front, once knelt and at 60 yds., put 5 shots into a group of 13/16th inches at 60 yds. with std. red box Federal 150's. Those chrono'd at 2485 fps. out of that 24" barrel, too. The pre-war guns, from what I understand at least, all had hand-lapped barrels, and are the best shooters of the lot. Those after WWII and up to 1964 were very good, on average, but varied more. The post 64's can vary a lot too, from nothing I'd want to carry to very good. The current FN owned and produced M-94's that I've heard of have been pretty uniformly good, at least from the reports I've had, but I think they discontinued the M-94, didn't they? Can't recall if they've resumed it, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't.

I like the Marlins, and they ARE great guns, but the little M-94's are more slender, lighter, and just handle better/quicker than the Marlins for me. YMMV of course, and both are excellent and very good guns. Some like one and some the other, and often for very small reasons of difference. Accuracy will ALWAYS be an individual gun's trait ... or not. It all depends on which gun you're shooting and what ammo it likes best, which IS a factor that many don't know about or much want to take into consideration these days, especially when it's hard to go to the store and FIND the same make and model of ammo every time you go. Different ammo shoots to sometimes widely divergent POI's, and thus, necessitates re-sighting in the rifle.

This is one reason I'm glad to be a realoader, and can always make up the exact load my rifles are sighted for. A little testing and "the load" is usually easily found. And there is NO substitute when a deer or other critter shows up for being able to KNOW you CAN shoot 'em in the eye if you really want to. Sure steadies the hand, keeps the mind focused on the trigger squeeze, and helps a LOT in putting them down quick and in their tracks. And that ain't no small thing, either!

[bob208]

as said the rifles do better then the carbines. a rifle with a button mag will do belter than a rifle with a full mag. I have a 55 that will put the first 3 shots into almost the same hole. that fourth shot goes out the fifth goes way out. the pencil barrel gets too hot to hold a group after 3 shots.

[blixen]

With a good blade front sight with a square top I get a military sight picture that gives me the best chance of shooting small groups. With these two Pre 64 Winchesters using good quality jacketed bullets or well cast lead boolits they are generally 2 MOA rifles and sometimes turn in a 1 1/2 MOA group of a bench. They will both ring 10" gongs at 200 yards off hand with boring regularity. Of course sometimes they turn in a 3 MOA group too :roll:
I've got a 1908 mod. 94 that's seen hard use, but it'll give me 2 1/2"- 3"groups at 100, with cast. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't shot shot them.

[smkummer]

What every one else said. I know if I changed my sights to a blade front sight instead of a bead and installed a rear aperture sight, I would get more out of my 1962 94 30-30 and it would be a better paper puncher but I choose to keep the hunting type sights on it and put the very large front bead on the target like a post in the 6 oclock position. This combined with the fact that I am using unique, Lymans 311291 (feeds better than 311041 FP) sized to .311 and a 1500 FPS velocity means I have the rear sight elevator on the factory buckhorn second to the top when I am shooting steel at 200 yards. Very mild recoil (about the specs. of the old 32-40 cartridge), cheap and pure fun to shoot. I didn't want to take away from the handiness of the deer hunting type sight.