348 Winchester Model 71

[marshhawk]

I inherited my father's model 71 348, I remember it being pretty intense recoil wise, I would like to find some data to load this rifle with cast bullets, I see that RCBS makes a 200 gr. FNGC mold that looks interesting, I am having trouble finding load data for this bullet, I have checked Paco Kelly's lever guns and the web, can anyone offer any sources for data, I would like to find a load that would make this fun to shoot, so I can enjoy my dad's rifle, I won't be hunting with it, just punching paper at the range!
Thanks, Marshhawk

[Chill Wills]

I used to shoot that bullet - start with 22 grs and work up to max 25 grs of SR-4759
or
- start with 24 grs 5744 and a max of 28 grs.

Very low recoil and there should be an accurate load in there

[marshhawk]

Thank You!
Marsh!

[yooper]

Congratulations on owning a fine old rifle. Your dad had good taste! Yes, the hunting loads were pretty stout but they were made for stopping some pretty stout critters. If and when you run across components, BUY THEM! Brass and bullets are pretty hard to come by. I sent you a PM about some bullets but I see now you're going with cast. Brass is really hard to find and there's nothing you can convert without a GREAT amount of trouble. Good luck.
John
yooper

[Ballistics in Scotland]

This is an excellent rifle and cartridge, and the Winchester brass is extremely durable if you can get it. I used it to make the Portuguese 8x60R case. In an emergency you could use some of the limited-production Bertram brass. .450 Express (not .500/.450 Express) is usually advised, but you would have to size it to headspace on the shoulder due to the thin rim of the .450. So Bertram's 8x56R Hungarian (.554 head and 0.06in. under length) or 10.25 Jarman (.548 head) with their thicker rims might be better.

This is a cartridge with which you can get excellent performance with cast bullets, and yet it is a good idea to use gas checks. It would benefit from a harder alloy than some, and the harder the alloy, the closer it ought to fit the groove diameter. It would be a good idea to slug the bore to check the groove diameter (though in this rifle it is very unlikely to be out of the ordinary) and buy a lubesizer die to match.

[missionary5155]

Howdy Marshhawk
Now that is a real good one to have and enjoy.
I am a small frame feller. Learned a long time ago that if I was going to sit and fire a rifle from a bench to rig the rest tall so I could sit up straight and roll with the recoil. Even better to me is cross sticks. I sit near straight up and fire all types of fun recoiling beasts. 375 H&H with 300 grainers still rattle my few teeth but do not bust my bony shoulder. Have a 33 Winchester in a 86 Takedown that hurts awful laying down behind it on a bench but off cross sticks it is fun ! Shoot my 12 gauge Mossy's off cross sticks also playing with round ball.
Keep watch for brass as it does show up. Bought a bag off Leverguns 6 months back.
But do shoot it. Get your body upright and the pain goes down range where it belongs.
Mike in Peru

[rintinglen]

A fun load that gets much use by me is a Lyman 358-429 sized to .350 and loaded over 13 grains of Red Dot. Very Light recoil, but hits very far from POA, if the rifle is sighted in with factory equivalent loads--a foot plus low. Still, it is very accurate, at least out to a hundred yards.
148992

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have loaded 348's for my model 71 for many years using Lyman #350482, a 250 grain RN GC and 3031 powder. It can be loaded to moderate velocity or higher depending on your needs. Brass is not easy to come by and is usually spendy, but worth it. It is a respected cartridge, rifle combination that is highly regarded especially in the hunting community. LLS

[marshhawk]

Hi Rintinglen, re: the Lyman 358-429, do you run those thru an intermediate sizer then to .350, it seems like there would be quite a bit of material, .008 or so to run straight thru the .350 sizer? This sounds like something I would like to try!
Thanks, Marshhawk

[OD Cleaver]

I just acquired a M71 also, have some 200 and 250 gr jacketed bullets but can't find load data in any of my 6 manuals dating to 1976, if anyone can help with published data I'd certainly appreciate it. Not looking for hot loads, just want to start off duplicating factory for the jacketed, will experiment with cast later, need a place to start. This will mostly be a whitetail rifle but could see some black bear/elk use. I'd really like to hear from anyone who has used the 200 gr Hornady or 250 gr DKT on whitetail or similar game. Thanks!

[Skipper]

Cleaver, here's Hodgdon's data for the 250 gn:
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle?&CartridgeName=348+Winchester&OrderBW%5B%5D=250&Manufacturer%5B%5D=All&Powder%5B%5D=All

[OD Cleaver]

EXACTLY what I was looking for - thanks Skipper!

[too many things]

the lyman 350447 and 5744 is very good
look up the accurate web and it will give you load data

[45-70 Chevroner]

Marshhawk I have some Lyman info for the 348. Sent you a PM.

[Abert Rim]

Have a Browning 71 on the way. Who else makes a decent 200-250-grain .349-.350 FN mold these days besides RCBS?

[relic]

Geeze, you guys did it to me again. Ive owned a mod 71 348 since 1957, only hunted with it cause it wasn't all that much fun to target shoot and then one of you brings up cast boolits for it and now I have another mold more gas checks and more boolits to cast. I already had all the dies and everything to reload for it so a mold and a couple other necessities wasn't that much to pick up. Midway.com is my best friend. So I bought a RCBS 200 Gr rnfp mold and checks and .349 sizer and went to work.Light target loads were my goal and I have lots of Trail Boss powder so I decided to go strictly with it. I have to many powders and it can drive you nuts trying to decide what to use. So its trail boss. I Deep cleaned the barrel with sweets and kroil, lots of old copper fouling afterall those years. OK, my alloy is about 12-15 bhn. sized boolits to .349 and lubed with LBT Blue soft and gas checked. The noses are a little bit fat, they engrave the rifling but not so much that they chamber hard. I use win large mag primers because that's what I have lots of and they work just fine, also a tuft of Dacron over the powder, it works for me and I do the same for my 25-20 and 30-30. Below is a list of the loads I tested today. All done with Trail Boss powder and 200 gr RCBS rnfp.
5.0 grs T boss
887 fps
875fps

6.0 grs T boss
961 fps
967 fps

7.0 grs T boss
785
800

8.0 T boss
887
875

9.0 grs T boss
961
967

10 grs T boss
1025
1027
10.5 grs T boss
1081
1068
1058

I tried 11& 12 grs but for some reason accuracy went away. I started at 25 yds and over 20 rds cut almost one ragged hole. I went to 50 yds and got 2 inch groups. At 50 yds I used the 10.5 grain load. I am really really pleased. So for those of you that have 348s hiding in a gun safe, bring em out. they are fun to shoot with cast.

[marshhawk]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated!
Marshhawk

[marshhawk]

I am very excited about the info Relic posted using Trail Boss in reduced 348 WCF loads, but I live in So Cal and I have checked every powder and loading supply place I can think of and I may as well be asking for Unicorn Tears, if there is anyone in my area that has some to part with for either cash or trade, please let me know! I live in the Inland Empire area Riverside Ca. I have lots of powder on hand for trade! Please PM me!
Marshhawk

[Skipper]

Bass Pro Shops has it. They will ship to your store

http://t.basspro.com/IMR-Trail-Boss-Smokeless-Handgun-Powder/product/1305101727/

[beagle]

Look on castpics. I wrote an article several years ago on the .348 Win. Lot of cast data in it./beagle

[marshhawk]

I did load up some .348s at 10.0 trail boss, and they are a joy to shoot, I will be able to enjoy this rifle as a fun plinker, not just a bone crusher, I seated to 2.720 so as to not engage the rifling, I looks like the gas checks are at the base of the neck, I am also trying the load, 13.0 Red Dot.
I appreciate everyones input, is there a problem if the GC is below the neck? I am new to GC bullets.
Marshhawk

[Duckiller]

Philips Wholesale in Covina generally has Trail Boss. Philips Wholesale.com for a list of powders he has on hand. Open Thur, Fri, Sat. He got me some 250 gr original Barnes bullets. Winchester still makes 200 gr ammo. Understand why you aren't going hunting with it locally but one should always have some heavy hunting loads on hand . Just in case you get a chance to go some place that has BIG game and sensible rules.

[smokeywolf]

Always good to have older casting and reloading books around.

Just ran across your thread and cracked open my copy of "Ken Waters' Pet Loads". There are a dozen different loads for cast in 348 and twice that for J-words. My third edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook also has a half dozen or so loads.

When you shoot hunting loads in the 348, although not as punishing as potent loads of 45-70 in a model '86 SRC, you do know that you've been behind a rifle that can bring down anything that roams the North American Continent.

Have fun with your model 71.

[marshhawk]

Well I got some Trail Boss, so I loaded 20 rds @ 10.0 (20@ 10.0) Gr. and another 30 of 13 Gr. Red Dot, I test fired 2 of each and they are both mild, I'm off to the range Friday to see how they group! Marshhawk

[porthos]

I was given 2 and 1/2 boxes of buffalo bore 250 gr ammo. don't want to shoot it until I really need the brass. my shoulder twitches when I look at the ammo it the cabinet. the fellow that gave me the ammo was sending his model 71 to doug turnbull to have it converted to something bigger ( don't remember what ) but he wanted to kill a bison with it.

porthos

[marshhawk]

Hi Everyone, Well I ran 50 rds. through my 348 with reduced loads last Friday, 20 rds.- 10 gr. of Trail Boss and 30 rds. of the Ed Harris Load 13.0 Red Dot, both with the 200 gr. RCBS GC Bullet, the Red Dot loads are a little stouter, on the ballistic computer it shows 1500- 1600 FPS, they are very easy to shoot, I think a 8 yr. old girl could handle it no problem, I am going back to the Trail Boss and using there reduced formula, fill to bullet base/no compression for Max and reduce to 70% of that figure for starting, I'm having fun with this, I did shoot a couple of factory 200 gr. Winchesters for comparison. Regards Marshhawk, PS It grouped about 1 1/2" @ 50yds, mostly because of my old eyes and iron sights!

[ammohead]

I have a .375 round ball mould. I run these first through a .358 size die, then a .349 size die. I seat them over 5 gr of bullseye for a gallery load that is surprizingly accurate and a hoot to shoot. I dropped a jack rabbit in the garden at 30 yards with one.

[Frank V]

marshhawk

Wow your Fathers Win 71, that's a great rifle & under appreciated ctg. I had one once & traded it off drat, whatever you do keep your Fathers nice 71. That cartridge shines with a 250gr bullet, but probably none are available now unless you cast your own.

[35 shooter]

I've always felt the 71 was one of best looking lever guns out there.

I saw where someone has brought it out in 45/70 now, but didn't pay attention to what company.
Think i'll be looking that article up again after reading through this thread.

[Nueces]

That would be the Pedersoli Model 86/71.

[Rick B]

Hope you get a lot of years of good shooting out of your Dad's 71. When Winchester designed the pistol grip butt stock they got it right. When you mount one to your shoulder they feel good
Rick

[smkummer]

I believe Barnes makes a 220 and 250 grain for the .348. Hornandy 200 are enough on the shoulder. You can keep your eyes open on ebay or here for a .348 mold, but when they do come up, they do get attention, so you may have to bite the bullet and buy the RCBS and go have fun. I do have a lyman mold that comes close to 200 grains with my WW alloy and a gas check. And reduced is so much nicer for range time. Lyman manuals offer data for the .348, at least the older manuals do.

[marshhawk]

Thanks Guys, For all the kind words about my fathers rifle, I bought a used RCBS 200 Gr. mold from Rick B in Juneau AK, he's a great guy to work with, I have been casting and shooting those boolits and there working great, I have run them GC with the 13.0 Red Dot load and plain base with 10.5 Trail Boss, been running 50 rd. range sessions no problem, I'm having a lot of fun with the Model 71! No Pain, it's a Hoot!
Marshhawk

[Frank V]

Marshhawk
It's great to hear you are having a good time with your Fathers 71.
They are very good rifles, enjoy!

[bigbear]

Thanks Guys, For all the kind words about my fathers rifle, I bought a used RCBS 200 Gr. mold from Rick B in Juneau AK, he's a great guy to work with, I have been casting and shooting those boolits and there working great, I have run them GC with the 13.0 Red Dot load and plain base with 10.5 Trail Boss, been running 50 rd. range sessions no problem, I'm having a lot of fun with the Model 71! No Pain, it's a Hoot!
Marshhawk

Do you need any filler with these loads?

[bigbear]

Took 3 black bears, full penetration shoulder shots at 30yds, 70yds and 120yds , 250to 275 lb size with Hornady 200gr H4831sc 66gr, load is safe in my rifle, cannot guarantee safe in yours!
Still trying to get a cast load that works, I don't mind full loads for 200gr projectiles, factory 250 hurt at both ends:bigsmyl2:

Atip for the old coots amongst us, I got a Turnbull Burris fast fire mount (no alteration of rifle required) and put it on my Browning 71 carbine and with above load I get consistent 1.5" or less groups at 100yds, and I don't even like dot sights. It explains my iron sight grouping issues , I would frequently get 2 hole real close ( I call them snake eyes) then the next shot would be 2" out. Think it was my old eyes , not the rifle or the loads.
Guess you can tell, I'm nutso about the 71/ 348Win, the best 200yds or less hunting rifle in North America.When you are packing one of these you can walk through the bush and fear no evil. A real comfort in the night when sleeping out, in bear country.

[marshhawk]

Hi Big Bear, No the 13.0 Red Dot load does not require a filler, I did load some light Trail Boss Loads where filler was required, but after a couple of range trips I have settled on the Red Dot load for my plinking load! I removed the Buckhorn sight and I am currently using a Marble Peep sight on my Mod 71!
Marshhawk

[Frank V]

Great that would be a fantastic rifle enjoy!