22-250's

[Good Cheer]

Any yall make 22-250's from something else?
What's best to start from?
Good points and bad points?

[Bird]

I have made 22-250 from 308 brass, and a rimmed version from 307 Winchester brass.
The downside is the time involved to form them, the cost of forming dies, the cost of an outside neck turner and expand iron and a method of shortening the necks.
The upside is you will be able to fit the necks to the chamber with the tolerance that suits you or your rifle.
If you need only a hundred or two, then I would simply purchase the brand you prefer. If you have the time and need something to do as a side hobby, then make your own.
If you already have a favorite load, you will have to start over, and check your new case volume to work up your load.
Personally I would just buy new quality brass, lapua maybe, and stay away from Winchester brand, as it actually works out cheaper in the long run.

[country gent]

I havent formed 22-250 from other brass, seems like alot of work for what is ussually available. 308 would work but take several passes to do. Bump shoulder back to new location, size neck down in several steps and full length size then there may be need for a couple annealings in the process to remove work hardening. Then the trim to length. Neck turning or reaming also would be needed. I could see the brass going from .011-.012 thickness to .017-.020 thickness, not only from sizing down but part of the new neck will have been shoulder on the 308. Really 5-6 steps to convert brass and the time wear and stress on equipment for a cases that is available normally may not be worthwhile in the long run. I have a AR10 built up in 22-250 with krieger 1-7 twist barrel for shooting 80 grn vlds to long ranges ( 1000 yds) What I found to work out better was the cases I sleeved the primer pockets down to small rifle size.

[GRUMPA]

There's a lot of work involved like already stated. I convert a lot of cases into other things all the time and in a nutshell.....it takes time and the right equipment. The closest thing I do to the 22-250 is the 250Savage and it takes a lathe and a reamer plus other stuff to make those work.

Just buy new unless like already stated you have oodles of time on your hands.

And the parent case I use is 308LC brass, the cases are tough as nails when I get done but keep in mind the case is real thick....

[Good Cheer]

Thanks for the input fellas.
Hadn't thought about sleeving the primer holes.

[Good Cheer]

And thanks for the shoulder in the neck input. I've got some once fired 06's that would avoid that if it makes a difference in performance.
Got the tooling covered but need to double check on the .22 pilot for reaming the necks.
During the long winter, will probably go...
.308 trim die,
7-08,
25-08 trim die,
.243 (probably unnecessary),
.300 Savage (if bumping down the shoulder diameter helps),
.22-250 trim die.
Can do the initial pass with a 8x57 trim die as long as the 22-250 shoulder diameter isn't reduced.

But before going crazy on all that I need to check out the rifle for potential accuracy as well as chamber dimensions and see if I think it is worth the effort. It isn't bedded yet, a 788 wearing a 6x18 for right now. Might oughta stick the T-10 on it for tests. We'll see. Anyhow, thanks for the input.

[GRUMPA]

If it was me I would stay away from 06 unless I had no choice, there's a difference in extractor groove width which may create issues. All I do when I for the 250Sav after machining the base of the body is run them through a 308 sizer die to round them up, then a double sizing operation. Of course I use gauges so I know where the gauge dimension is. I also do that with the de-capping rod removed, I do that so any taper is in the inside of the neck, and when I ream them it takes the taper out.

After reaming I put the de-capping rod back in the sizer die, and run them through it yet again. Them it's trim, clean, and anneal.....I always anneal very last.

[floydboy]

Been thinking about making 22-250 brass for a long time. The labor and wear and tear on equipment just seemed too much to deal with. This thread doesn't change my opinion on those points. One thing I notice on my brass is I usually discard cases do to loose primer pockets more than anything else. Country Gent mentions sleeving primer pockets to except small rifle primers. I'm thinking that would save my cases for a few more firings after the pocket stretches. Does anyone know how to sleeve the pockets?

Thanks,,,,Floyd

[GRUMPA]

Does anyone know how to sleeve the pockets?

I've read where folks have done just that, but CRS kicks in.

[oneokie]

It isn't bedded yet, a 788 wearing a 6x18 for right now.

If it is like the majority of 788's, it should be pretty darn accurate.

[triggerhappy243]

Bird, What is the issues with Winchester brass?

[Bird]

Bird, What is the issues with Winchester brass?
There are two issues that I and others reportedly have. The first is case neck splitting, which can happen on the second firing, and most assuredly on the third firing. I get this using just below max charges of W760 powder under a 52grn bullet. My lower pressure and velocity loads of IMR4064 are not as problematic. Annealing the brass frequently, keeps this problem at bay, until the second issue arises. The second being loose primer pockets, usually withing 4 to 5 firings.
The above was from an older batch of brass, about 15 years ago. In other aspects, volume, weight and flash holes, the brass is very consistent.
I could not find 22-250 brass a few months ago, but have 300 or so made from 308LC brass loaded and ready to go. I am getting tired of load development, so I will try these first, then maybe switch to Lapua brass for their acclaimed quality, consistency and longevity, which is supposedly 10 reloadings.

[triggerhappy243]

do you use a neck sizer die?

[Bird]

And thanks for the shoulder in the neck input. I've got some once fired 06's that would avoid that if it makes a difference in performance.
Got the tooling covered but need to double check on the .22 pilot for reaming the necks.
During the long winter, will probably go...
.308 trim die,
7-08,
25-08 trim die,
.243 (probably unnecessary),
.300 Savage (if bumping down the shoulder diameter helps),
.22-250 trim die.
Can do the initial pass with a 8x57 trim die as long as the 22-250 shoulder diameter isn't reduced.

But before going crazy on all that I need to check out the rifle for potential accuracy as well as chamber dimensions and see if I think it is worth the effort. It isn't bedded yet, a 788 wearing a 6x18 for right now. Might oughta stick the T-10 on it for tests. We'll see. Anyhow, thanks for the input.
I noticed that you mention reaming the necks. I prefer to outside turn the necks with a K&M tool. This allows me to cut into the shoulder a little, and delay the onset of 'donut' formation. If you succeed in good case longevity after going through all this prep work, the last thing you want to deal with is 'donuts', and they will surely appear.

[Bird]

do you use a neck sizer die?
If the question is for me, the answer would be kinda sorta.
I have tried the lee collet neck dies, but lost 1/8" or more accuracy over partial neck sizing with a full length sizing die. I don't need to size the whole neck as I use 50 and 52 grain bullets only.
I find best accuracy with 4 to 5 thou bullet pull in the necks, not sure exactly without checking my notes,and I don't get that with the collet dies.
I get a little better accuracy from the 22-250 rimmed , different rifle, which is formed from 307 brass. The necks are turned for 1 thou chamber clearance, and neck sized in the same manner.

[triggerhappy243]

I do not use any lee stuff. rcbs makes a neck sizer, I use them for everything rifle i reload for. I am using brass i got when the first star wars movie came out. Not seeing what your technique is for start to finish reloading or what is going on in the chamber....hard to tell what is causing neck splitting in virgin brass. I have never split a case neck.

[Good Cheer]

I noticed that you mention reaming the necks. I prefer to outside turn the necks with a K&M tool. This allows me to cut into the shoulder a little, and delay the onset of 'donut' formation. If you succeed in good case longevity after going through all this prep work, the last thing you want to deal with is 'donuts', and they will surely appear.

Donuts... you're reminding me of the photon torpedo 26" barrel .240 Super Varminter that I had years ago. Reamed and turned from .270's. Taking a shallow cut in the shoulder was the way to go.
Boy was I goony to let that go! :oops:<--- goof ball

[phaessler]

I have done .30-06 to .22-250, to create some custom .22-250AI 40deg, after fireforming the .22-250's in my Ackley they were always 0.020" too short for the chamber cast, came acroos a set of RCBS form dies to make .22-250 from 30-06/.308, its quite a few step and after making over 500pcs, I am probably set for a while. Dies were an Ebay find a few years ago, and was surprised to see what they cost.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130351&d=1423660841&thumb=1 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130351&d=1423660841)
5 steps, reaming, trimming, neck turning, and sizing, then fireforming, resizing, and neck turning sometimes again.

Pete

[triggerhappy243]

that seems like a lot of work. and all the fireforming after.

[Bird]

I too use the RCBS die set. $400.00 plus per set now. Can that be correct?

[triggerhappy243]

$400.00? not sure what your set does. but I would expect a massage at the end of the day for that.

[Bird]

$400.00? not sure what your set does. but I would expect a massage at the end of the day for that.
Me too, and maybe more.
Huntingtons and Midway's both want over 400 for the set. Maybe they gold plate them these days.

[triggerhappy243]

I just fire form virgin brass with a medium load and a cheapo bullet. then trim if needed.

Not sure why someone would want to make their own 22-250 brass.... or consider using 250 savage brass. that stuff is harder to find.

[Motor]

I just fire form virgin brass with a medium load and a cheapo bullet. then trim if needed.

Not sure why someone would want to make their own 22-250 brass.... or consider using 250 savage brass. that stuff is harder to find.

Yeah I'm with you. I'm reading this thread thinking I have to be missing something. Why would anyone bother making brass that you can buy any day of the week somewhere. You have to be shooting some pretty hot loads to loosen primer pockets in only 5 to 6 loadings.

Motor

[triggerhappy243]

if you have not yet... read every post.

[bruce drake]

I had resorted to using commercial 308 Win brass reformed and trimmed to 22-250 because despite the call to just go out and buy it when the local and internet websites were sitting at zero balance a few years back. Now with 300 pieces of brass cut, converted and formed, I doubt I'll be buying new brass anytime soon either. I don't have a outside trimmer but a file placed against the neck of the brass and spinning it in drill using a Lee case trimmer base and then following up with 400gr sandpaper cleaned the neck thickness right up.

Time and willingness to do the labor is the only issue when it comes to reforming brass. Do you have the time and are you willing to expend it to keep a rifle shooting...

[triggerhappy243]

QUOTE: Time and willingness to do the labor is the only issue when it comes to reforming brass. Do you have the time and are you willing to expend it to keep a rifle shooting...

IF YOU HAVE THE TIME AND CONFIDENCE TO PRODUCE ACCURATE BRASS LIKE THAT, I'D SAY GO FOR IT. I, MYSELF PREFER FACTORY BRASS. I HAVE NO TROUBLE FINDING IT AROUND HERE.

[koehn,jim]

Making your own cases is a bother, now they are available but when I started with the rifle they were not so it was necessary. My loads are based on reformed .308 cases and I still make them. I have a set of dies that came with the barreled action and fit just right. if you anodize the cases first and take your time it makes a fun project. I save all my split neck 308 and use them for the project. It will not save you money if you value your time but it is fun.

[williamwaco]

Making your own cases is a bother, now they are available but when I started with the rifle they were not so it was necessary. My loads are based on reformed .308 cases and I still make them. I have a set of dies that came with the barreled action and fit just right. if you anodize the cases first and take your time it makes a fun project. I save all my split neck 308 and use them for the project. It will not save you money if you value your time but it is fun.


I used to make them that way. WAY too much work. I would buy (GASP!) factory ammo before i would make my own. Back then that was not an option.