Ruger 480/454 Testing video

[Ickisrulz]

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/on-american-rifleman-tv-ruger-manufacturing-and-their-big-bore-revolvers/35803/

A neat video showing testing of the new Lipsey offerings.

[MtGun44]

Nice video. I can imagine shooting thousands of rounds of .454 in testing..... OWWWW! .480 is stout but much
less.

Bill

[44man]

I still don't want the Bisley, I want a Hunter, 5 shot .480 with a hog leg.
But it is a good video so thanks. Nothing will beat a Ruger except the BFR but parts are Ruger. The joining of Magnum Research with Ruger is the best thing that ever happened. Yes the big BFR frames and internal parts are cast by Ruger. There might be an agreement so Ruger can't make the big frames under the Ruger name.

[RobS]

I would go with a 480 if I was looking. The SRH 454 is an accurate revolver however not a comfortable one when the hammer falls on upper end load. I also own a Bisley 45 Colt and have run the same weight and same velocity Ruger only 45 Colt loads through both the Bisley and a SRH and I simply prefer the Bisley grip. Some like the grip angle of the Bisley and others not, it's all matter of preference like many things.

[Cornbread]

I shoot a lot of 454 but I cannot even imagine shooting proof loads that are 40% above 65,000psi. Oh my WOW would that hurt your hands!

[44man]

Only one gun i refused to shoot. .50 Alaskan with a smooth Micarta Bisley. No way for control. Seen my friend find it out.148638

[white eagle]

nice revo's for sure
I would also get a 480 "IF", I was looking
Jim why did you smack your friend with your gun :drinks:

[Blackwater]

Good video. Thanks. Always interesting subjects!

[44man]

nice revo's for sure
I would also get a 480 "IF", I was looking
Jim why did you smack your friend with your gun :drinks:
Not mine, his gun. he is also a Bisley fan. He actually shot my guns better but there is a hard headed thing about the Bisley, short of a skull fracture.
I bought one and sold it to a friend in 2 weeks. a relief like no other, never again.

[Lloyd Smale]

I once shot a plow grip 4 inch 500 linebaugh. NEVER AGAIN!! make mine a bisley. Plow handles are fine for 44 mags and 44 mag level 45 colts but anything bigger and you can have them:-D

[Rifle 57]

I would try one in 480 Ruger

[Three44s]

I am good with my SRH in .480 but I am also glad Ruger is making more .480's .......... this will help keep a great cartridge alive!

Three 44s

[44man]

I once shot a plow grip 4 inch 500 linebaugh. NEVER AGAIN!! make mine a bisley. Plow handles are fine for 44 mags and 44 mag level 45 colts but anything bigger and you can have them:-D
It was the 4" that did you in. The Linebaugh does not belong in a 4". I shoot very big calibers with the plow handles. But they are guns. I can't imagine the barrel rise from a 4".
My problem with the Bisley is my huge knuckle from archery. Then the hold is never the same with them, too tricky for me.

[Lloyd Smale]

thing is my 4 inch 500 is more confortable to shoot with the same load then my 5.5 was or even the 7.5 inch one I had first. Same goes for the ruger Alaskan with its 2.5 inch barrel. Hands down more confortable then my 4 /58s or 7.5 freedom arms guns were and im one that doesn't like DA grip frames. I think the major reason is when shooting identical loads with the short barrel the bullet is in the barrel a shorter amount of time causing the recoil. I think maybe the barrel rise might be more abrupt because of the lack of weight out front but the overall recoil allways seemed less to me.

44man I know we don't agree on how guns handle recoil. You prefer a DA and I hate them for big recoil and to me NOTHING handles the really BIG guns like a bisley and even then just the difference in grip contouring like what dustin linebaugh does makes a HUGE difference when compared to a ruger bisley factory grip.

[44man]

Now i do NOT like the DA. I prefer the SA plow handle over all others. I can shift my grip and still hit POI.
Your short guns might have the boolit gone before velocity is reached so more powder is burned out front.

[flint45]

I want one! a.480 with cast boolits nice.

[dubber123]

The odd part is, my brothers 6.5" BFR in .475 is super comfortable to shoot compared to my 4-3/4" F/A in .475. The F/A has basically a Bisley grip, his BFR has a standard plow handle. Both have slippery hardwood grips. His is a little heavier, but the difference is way more drastic than a few ounces account for. Both shoot a 440 at close to 1,350. It takes a little more powder to get his to match the F/A, but it does. I guess shoot whatever feels the best to you is my point.

[jonp]

What I found odd was their testing proof + 40% loads by hand and that guy doing it without a glove for some reason

[dougader]

I'm waiting on a 480.

Lloyd, I experienced the same as you did. I've had 3 .454s, 2 SRH 7.5" guns (one with magna porting), and an Alaskan. The 2.5" Alaskan had less felt recoil than the 7.5" guns, and-for me-the magna ported gun was the worst because it torqued on my wrists real bad.

[Lloyd Smale]

velocity in them wasn't as far off of the long barrels as you would think. Keep in mind that in a 500 or 475 with its bigger hole theres more powder able to burn in a shorter length.
Now i do NOT like the DA. I prefer the SA plow handle over all others. I can shift my grip and still hit POI.
Your short guns might have the boolit gone before velocity is reached so more powder is burned out front.

[Lloyd Smale]

I think maybe with a 2.5 inch barreled 45 cal gun 44mans theory on it not burning all the powder could hold true. I do know that I could easily push 300s to 1350fps and 325s to 1300 in it which is still a stout hunting load and about all your going to get out of a 6 shot ruger 45colt with a 7.5 inch barrel. So I guess a good amount of that powder was burning. Bottom line pushing a cast bullet any faster then that is hurting you more then its helping anyway. Absolute most uncomfortable gun I have to shoot is a lightweight 45 colt that dave clements built me. It is a plow grip aluminum framed 4 inch 45 colt with an aluminum ejector rod housing, scalloped recoil shield and loading gate and some more weight taken off the cylinder and fit with a lighter contour barrel. ITS LIGHT and 300s with 24 grains of 110 will I guarantee you draw blood in the first 6 shots. I wish I could find an aluminum bisley grip frame for it. John linebaugh had some made years ago but I just couldn't find one when I built that gun. IT NEEDS ONE. I know I could use lighter loads but the idea for that gun was a gun to pack in bear country that you could put in a holster and forget it. Kind of like a 329 smith.
I'm waiting on a 480.

Lloyd, I experienced the same as you did. I've had 3 .454s, 2 SRH 7.5" guns (one with magna porting), and an Alaskan. The 2.5" Alaskan had less felt recoil than the 7.5" guns, and-for me-the magna ported gun was the worst because it torqued on my wrists real bad.

[ole 5 hole group]

I've got a FA 97 in 45 Colt with a 4.75 inch barrel and when using a very stout load of Vihtavuori N110 behind a 325 grain Beartooth bullet I can make it zip along at 1,486 fps. In that revolver using that particular load you better understand single-action big bores or you just might draw a little blood - the way it is, your trigger finger just might take a beating as well, I know mine does.:wink:

Lloyd, I take it your blood loss is from the trigger finger and a knuckle or two, if no glove is worn? I would think an ole timer like yourself wouldn't jam that hammer spur into your webbing with a high grip or allow the barrel to roll/whip back to your noggin.

Velocities like that with heavy bullets in light weight revolvers are no fun at all and I did it in my initial testing of that revolver just to see what the ole gal would take - well, she can take more than I can stand.

I held the group to 2.5" at 25 yards shooting over the Oehler 33 chronograph - after the 1st round, I was arguing with myself over whether or not to light off the remaining 4 rounds, so maybe someone else could have shot a smaller sized group at that yardage, but those were the 1st & last 5 shots fired for group over sandbags.

That 329PD Smith is no joy either.

[44man]

When you shoot a short barrel you have a huge flame out front that does not add to boolit speed or spin. A 50 fps loss can mean the difference for accuracy. True a short barrel can have less recoil because the boolit is gone. But do you shoot for less recoil or do you shoot to hit?

[Lloyd Smale]

It sure doesn't effect accuracy in my 4 inch guns. The stainless 4 inch 500 I have now is probably the most accurate revolver ive ever owned that the 4 inch 500 blued gun I sold is probably in the top 5. Cool thing is the bigger the bore the less important extra length is when it comes to burning powder. A 50 cal will burn more powder in short barrel then a 475 will and powder charges for both are pretty close as the 500 is a lower pressure round.

But bottom line is any gun that was put together with top shelf parts buy someone that knows what there doing is probably going to outshoot a out of the box ruger. I know either of those 500s would do inch at 50 yards all day when my eyes were better. The second and third most accurate handguns ive ever owned were a 3 inch 610 smith I foolishly let go and one of my 4 inch 629s.

Accuracy has nothing to do with barrel length unless your trying to get it with a bullet that is borderline to heavy for caliber and needs that little bit extra speed to stabilize. Drop 10 grains of bullet weight an the problem goes away. I never seen a use for the 500 grains stuff in the 500s anyway. Ive shot lengthwise through a 1000 lb buffalo with 450s that my gun shot just fine. Some goes for a 475. Unless in one of them you have a need for bullets over 420 grain the 4 inch guns do just as well for accuracy as the 7.5s and again ive never felt a need for a bullet over 420 grain so ive never experienced the weakness in short barrels you refer to.

My 500 would shoot 450s as slow as a 1000fps with excellent accuracy and my 475s did the same with 400s. I Personaly think that the biggest variable as far as accuracy goes is gun construction. that and proper twist for the caliber. Maybe a ruger or some other factory gun falls on its face with slower loads but a good gun will shoot about anything well. Even saying that I have 4 5/8s rugers that shoot lights out with light or heavy loads. Only real trouble I have with rugers and accuracy is in some of there 45 colts. They can be a finicky lot.

If you like long barrels that's great. yes you get a few more fps but I know that you understand that in the field a 100fps with a cast bullet buys you about nothing. Some cant shoot short barrels accurately and some like me shoot them better then a long barrel. But like in a rifle barrel length has very little to do with accuracy. These days my friend recoil is more important then it was when I was young. Years of heavy recoiling guns took the fun out of it for me and id rather anyday shoot my big bores at 1100fps and believe me when there shot they kill just fine.

Ive put many a deer bear and pig in the freezer with a 44 mag at a 1000fps using a 250 grain cast bullet. Those loads are plenty accurate and there isn't much difference in killing power between them and a full bore 475 load on thin skinned game like deer. Might make the difference in the deer making two leaps or three but that's about it. I just cant see the reasoning in hauling around a 7.5 inch gun as heavy as something like a bfr. Id bet my Kimber montana doesnt weight a hole lot less and a little 18 inch 94 marlin surely comes close. Like you ive killed my share of game with a handgun and don't feel like I need to prove I can do it. Anymore I carry a handgun when its convient too and I have no qualms about taking a rifle out when the need arises.
When you shoot a short barrel you have a huge flame out front that does not add to boolit speed or spin. A 50 fps loss can mean the difference for accuracy. True a short barrel can have less recoil because the boolit is gone. But do you shoot for less recoil or do you shoot to hit?

[44man]

Truth there but I made my own molds and they are all heavy. I still believe a shorter barrel should have a little faster twist.
Even my .475 does not recoil like my .45 vaquero with heavy boolits. It is all steel too. 6 shots was IT until I put Pachs on it.
I would dearly like to afford the BFR.44 with the 1 in 16" twist.
I agree barrel length has little to do with accuracy as long as the right boolit is used.
My best .44 boolit is 330 gr and even a reduction of 1/2 gr of powder will ruin groups so I NEED spin up, I would not try that boolit in a 4" gun.148869 These are average at 50 yards with a 4 minute Ultra Dot. This boolit does 1/2" from my friends Hunter 7-1/2". As I go up or down from this load things are not good and the velocity reduction or increase is nil. This is the boolit I got 1-5/16" with at 200 yards. With my Loopy scope I can punch one hole. It is also the boolit I shot a 3/4" group off hand at 100 with. Need spin!

[Lloyd Smale]

best load in my 44 accusport bisley is with the ballisitic cast 340 lfngc. It is a hot load though enough 110 that pushes that bullet 1200fps, primers are just starting to flatten but it ejects fine. That load took third place in the penetration testing at the linebaugh seminar a few years back. Not bad considering it went up against 475s 500s 45 colts and even some African big bore rifles. Don't have a clue what the twist is in that gun though but it seems to handle about any bullet weight. Surely not needed for deer, pigs or bear though. Anything I would ever use a 44 mag for would be easily taken with a 250-280 grain bullet. Like ive said before I killed a 1000lb buffalo with the lyman devastator hp and at least part of the bullet came out the other shoulder. I remember back in the day I started this cast bullet shooting and hunting thing with handguns. Heavies were all the rage and some would tell you if you didn't use them you weren't a real handgunner. Heck if you showed up to a linebaugh seminar with a gun shooting anything lighter then 300 grain they thought you brought it for your wife. Well I bought into it and used them for many years. I found out later though that for game under 500 lbs all they really added was recoil. Like ive preached for many years. A 250 at a 1000-1100 fps will do a lot of killing and is actually FUN to sit down and shoot a couple hundred practicing. I guess I quit drinking the koolaid just like I did with believing everyone trying to tell me that the 45 colt was hands down superior to the 44 mag. If it is it sure doesn't show it on the animals I kill.
Truth there but I made my own molds and they are all heavy. I still believe a shorter barrel should have a little faster twist.
Even my .475 does not recoil like my .45 vaquero with heavy boolits. It is all steel too. 6 shots was IT until I put Pachs on it.
I would dearly like to afford the BFR.44 with the 1 in 16" twist.
I agree barrel length has little to do with accuracy as long as the right boolit is used.
My best .44 boolit is 330 gr and even a reduction of 1/2 gr of powder will ruin groups so I NEED spin up, I would not try that boolit in a 4" gun.148869 These are average at 50 yards with a 4 minute Ultra Dot. This boolit does 1/2" from my friends Hunter 7-1/2". As I go up or down from this load things are not good and the velocity reduction or increase is nil. This is the boolit I got 1-5/16" with at 200 yards. With my Loopy scope I can punch one hole. It is also the boolit I shot a 3/4" group off hand at 100 with. Need spin!

[ole 5 hole group]

I guess I quit drinking the koolaid just like I did with believing everyone trying to tell me that the 45 colt was hands down superior to the 44 mag. If it is it sure doesn't show it on the animals I kill.

Lloyd - I'll bet when you go out fishing you use a little chum every now and again. You well know the 45 Colt is just a tad superior to that ole & proven 44 Magnum - and yes, nothing hit with it knows the difference and yes, the 44 Magnum, generally speaking, is easier to load for relative to finding an accurate load and yes, that 44 Magnum, generally speaking, shoots accurately with most anything you put in the charge chambers - BUT - that 45 Colt is a tiny bit superior when all is said and done.

I own a couple 44's and 45 Colts and when I just have to put 5 or more rounds into a small target at 50 yards - I will normally reach for one of my Baer 1911's but if for some reason they would not be allowed on the line - well, I guess I would have to reach for my Reeder 44 magnum because in a no alibi contest I just can't afford any "called fliers".;) That damn revolver just plain shoots and even when I think I just faded the front sight a little and expect the bullet to hit wide - seems to have its own eyes and somehow goes into the group - that damn characteristic just builds confidence but I still know the 45 Colt is a tad superior killing machine - so there.:grin:

[Lloyd Smale]

yup I guess if there was a mathematical way to measure how a deer reacts to a bullet the 45 might make a bit more. To me it would probably relate to a 450 hp car tuned by an expert that now puts out 455 hp. Fun to talk about but on the track it doesn't mean much.

My love for 44s comes from just what you said. In my years of buying both the 44s were a lot less work to get to shoot, my most accurate revolvers allways had a 4 as the second number be it 44mags or 44 specials. The 45 has its cool factor. I think the cult following came from guys like John linebaugh, taffin, pearce ect. They actually had 45s built that would shoot. It was kind of cool to the rest of us to see the 45 do what it was really capable of and that is running with the 44mag. Thing is you could already by an out of the box ruger 44 that shot as well as most custom 45s and by some ammo at wally world.

I think its greatest contribution was giving gun writers something to write about. They claimed the NEW 45 wasn't you fathers 45 (and it wasn't), but the storys of it hammering game like no 44 mag could were just that, STORYS. The gun manufactures loved it. I wonder how many 45 colts ruger would have sold if it wasn't for the gun magazines. I guess in a way im anti cult. I kind of got tired of the STORYs in the magazines and the posts from guys that drank the koolaid on these kinds of fourms. I took my 44s out and killed with them and low and behold found out not only do the bullets not bounce off but there isn't spit difference in killing power between a 44 and a 45 both loaded with 300 gain bullets at 1200 fps. Or between two 250s at 900 fps.

If you would have asked me my favorite handgun round 10 years ago I would have screamed 475. Now my only linebaughs are 500s other then a marlin 94 I have in 475. Why because the kill well and recoil less. Whats my favorite handgun round now. Hands down the 44 special. I have 6 of them and there all tack drivers, mild to shoot even if you want to pop off a few hundred rounds. Load them up with 17 grains of 2400 and a 250 and they kill thin skinned game as well as I need to kill it and they don't do it with massive muzzle blast or any recoil to speak of. I guess there kind of a retired guys dream gun. Kind of what in my opinion the 45 colt still should be and is for the most part at my house. A very cool gun shooting 250s at 900 fps.

[44man]

I have to go with Lloyd on the .45. as good as it is, deer do NOT show the same reaction as the .44. I have killed many with the .45 and I take the .44 first. There is an energy difference. That would be smaller if the .45 had the same velocity as the .44 with the same weight boolit.
My 330 gr in the .44 is a tad over 1300 fps while it is tough to get a .45 to over 1160 fps with a 335 gr. You might with a 240 to 250 gr. I just don't like light boolits.
Size of the hole is just a lot of ear wax.
The .45 is still great but it is always behind in energy. The book shows 21.5 gr of 296 in the .45 at 1219 fps with a 325 gr, sorry, it is a joke.

[dubber123]

I have to go with Lloyd on the .45. as good as it is, deer do NOT show the same reaction as the .44. I have killed many with the .45 and I take the .44 first. There is an energy difference. That would be smaller if the .45 had the same velocity as the .44 with the same weight boolit.
My 330 gr in the .44 is a tad over 1300 fps while it is tough to get a .45 to over 1160 fps with a 335 gr. You might with a 240 to 250 gr. I just don't like light boolits.
Size of the hole is just a lot of ear wax.
The .45 is still great but it is always behind in energy. The book shows 21.5 gr of 296 in the .45 at 1219 fps with a 325 gr, sorry, it is a joke.

Might try another gun Jim, that charge of H-110 with a 315 gr. cast went 1,325 fps from the last 7-1/2" BH in .45 Colt I had here for work. Across 2 different chronographs.

20.0 grains of H-110 and LEE's 320 gr. RF averages 1,062 fps. from my 4" S&W Mountain Gun in .45 Colt.

[Lloyd Smale]

it takes 24 grains of 110 in my 5.5 inch accusport 45 to reach 1300 with a 300. 25 with a 325. Those velocitys came over my pact and were verified on my buddys ohler. Both are pushing it for a 6 shot gun. They wont blow it up but one vaquero I had was subject to a couple thousand round of 325s with 25 grains and the gun about sounded like a babys rattle when you shook it. It had to have a total rebuild by clements. My accusport bisley has run that 1200fps load with a 340 for years with 110 and is as tight as new. It would easily push a 300 to probably 1400fps and those velocitys are childs play in something like a redhawk. The thicker cylinder gives a bit of a margin for safety and theres less back thrust with a smaller case and im sure that's why they tend to hold up a bit better. All that said were talking nit picking. For all practical purposes theres no difference in the field. Its about like comparing a 270 and a 280. Sure the 280 has a very slight edge (and I like it) but the 270 will do anything it will (but I don't like it) that brings up the real difference. Its personal preference. If you want to think you have some secret that the 44 guys don't understand and want to try to convince your friends you a bit smarter for using a 45 go for it. But you wont fool me. Ive killed enough with both to know better. It takes stepping up to the 480/475 to see any power increase over a 44mag. If you are looking for bragging rights tell your buddys that your smart enough not to buy into the magazine writers bs. Buy yourself a good out of the box 44 and with half the load development you can go out and kill anything. I don't in all my years of doing this ever remember getting a bad 44 mag and ive even had custom 45s that were far from tack drivers.

[44man]

I watched a video once, think it was Linebaugh with one of his big bores in a small gun. The gun wound up next to his left ear every shot. That takes control to keep head bashing away. Now that had to be rough on the hands too.

[ole 5 hole group]

When ever you see a revolver rear up and the barrel winds up next to their left ear - it's either for show as he didn't lock his elbow or else he doesn't realize just what he's got in his hand.

I think John & some of his friends just like to take it easy on their arms and allow those cannons to take flight past their head. For those with just a tad less experience with the hand cannon - they just might do some head damage to themselves.

Takes a little more ear wax to plug a 45 hole than it does for a 44 hole. Once you start messing with those numbers you can show some pretty impressive differences between calibers but in the field it all boils down to bullet construction, bullet shape, bullet velocity and bullet placement - damn be those nasty numbers!:wink:

[snowwolfe]

If you want a real eye opener have a buddy video you when you are shooting stiff big bore loads then play it back in slow motion. In full recoil the barrel comes closer to your head than you would ever guess.

[44man]

Closest I have come is a light tap on my cap brim. That was from the bench, off hand it is not close. But I have heavy guns too. Can't beat a big BFR for soaking up recoil.

[Markbo]

The more I read yalls experience the more I appreciate a .45 250-270gr around 950fps in an SAA type sixgun. Plenty of punch for anything I routinely hunt. If I ever need 350, 400 or 500gr bullets at 1300 or 1400fps I know who to ask.

In the meantime I have pipsqueak .32 & .41 mags to occupy the other end of the spectrum with even lighte bullets. :D

[Lloyd Smale]

I would agree unless it was a 475 or 500 max were talking about. With REAL FULL POWER LOADS those guns are in a different universe then the standard linebaugh chambering's. Ive put enough of them down range to know that I have no want or need for one. THEY KICK and I could see how someone could wear one in the head pretty easily. Buddy has one of each and his 500 shooting 500 grain bullets at full tilt even makes sounds that make me nervous. :Fire:
When ever you see a revolver rear up and the barrel winds up next to their left ear - it's either for show as he didn't lock his elbow or else he doesn't realize just what he's got in his hand.

I think John & some of his friends just like to take it easy on their arms and allow those cannons to take flight past their head. For those with just a tad less experience with the hand cannon - they just might do some head damage to themselves.

Takes a little more ear wax to plug a 45 hole than it does for a 44 hole. Once you start messing with those numbers you can show some pretty impressive differences between calibers but in the field it all boils down to bullet construction, bullet shape, bullet velocity and bullet placement - damn be those nasty numbers!:wink:

[44man]

I told the story about my friend with his Vaquero. He bought the 335 LBT's from Cast Performance and didn't know what to load. He called and they told him to work up until he had pressure signs. That he did! DANGER. He worked to 30 gr of 296. Cases fell out, no flat primers.
Now my story with the boolit is they shoot best at 21.5 gr of 296 and any other change will open groups. Yes I went higher but it was a waste of time. I surely want to hit the deer first of all. I want boolit placement first.
So you CAN reach velocity that will equal the .44 but what do you lose?
I can show what my load does. 149056 50 yards. It kills deer just fine so that is where I stay. It is NOT a .44 unless you give up accuracy. The twist is 1 in 16" and likes a little slower.

[JSH]

Interesting reading from two gents that call it as they see it.
44 mag vs 45 colt, colt is a lesser cartridge because it isn't a magnum. Or at least that is the consensus among the masses. Anything bit a magnum bounces off.
I will throw this in but a bit off topic. If I had shot a 41 mag 25-30 years ago I would never have looked at a 44 magnum. The two I have impressed me right out the gate, unmodified or tinkered with.
I just got on the 45 wagon a couple of years ago. Not a lot to say as I have not put a lot of time in on it. 45 colt/ 45 acp cylinders. The acp is my cull bullet pulling device. It shoots outstanding and shouldn't.
The colt cylinder as most input says needs a little massaging and I think it will come around.

I am am with a lot of others and patiently await the call that at least one of my 480 Blackhawks has arrived.
Jeff

[ole 5 hole group]

I have only two 475 Linebaughs, not the Maximum models, but I do have the 500 Linebaugh Maximum with a 8.5 inch barrel made from a 375 Tucson Seville put together by David Clements - kinda light weight for such a monster and I have "proof tested" that revolver during load development and it does raise hell with you off the bench.

A couple people (total strangers) have shot it with full on loads with 515 & 525 grain and 440 grain loads. The 440 grain loads ran at 1,554 fps while the 515 grain load zipped along at 1,190 fps and wasn't close to max yet but since I previously ran the 525 grain load up to 1,315 fps - I was satisfied I could protect the War Department's flower garden.

I never lock my elbows unless I expect to be surprised somewhat by the revolver and I DO lock my elbows with these loads with this particular revolver and off the bench these loads were no joy and really torqued my wrist. One guy shooting the 440 grain load off-hand almost smacked his head but his long brimmed cap saved him but the barrel did put a crease in the brim - one shot was enough and he handed back the revolver with a smile that indicated he was happy to have shot the revolver but didn't need to do it again. Another youngster (probably mid-20's) shooting off-hand with the 525 grain either sprained his wrist or broke it - his comment was he didn't expect that kind of recoil, as he had previously shot a 45/70 revolver but handed the revolver back after firing only one round. He handed the revolver back using his left hand shot and cleared his bench using only his left hand and left without saying anything else - his dad helped him clear the bench and gave me a dirty look a couple times but never said anything, so I'm just guessing the kid hurt himself, and I've never let another stranger shoot that 500 Maximum again.

I don't shoot these types of loads on a regular basis, not even or an occasional basis, as when I come across a friend of a friend (all my friends who wanted to shoot the 500 Max with max loads have and don't want seconds) who thinks the revolver is a pussycat - well, we go to the range, I load 5 rounds and fire one at the 25-yard target and that round will tear through either the X or 10 ring - I hand the revolver over with a smile on my face but pain in my hand - they fire one shot and the kibitzing begins. The last time I did this - I loaded a "soft" load for the 1st round and hot rounds in the other 4-cylinders - much more enjoyable on my end and that's what I'll do from now on as well.;-) All of these friends of friends are good sized lads and they do clamp down on the revolver and none have ever sprained their wrist but most do bitch about the torque, palm/webbing sting and the trigger finger fingernail taking a hit. The macho types fire all 4-rounds, smile at ya and say - that wasn't bad at all. We never call them a lair but we do tell them what they are full of and only one has ever asked to shoot another cylinder full to see if he could shoot better - nice guy, macho and one crazy dude.

And for those thinking the 45 Colt is no magnum - well, just because the name doesn't possess Magnum in it, doesn't mean that it doesn't possess magnum performance - just takes a reloader - or something like that. A 325 grain bullet out of a 4.75" barrel on a 45 Colt zipping along at 1,486 fps is no sloth in my book - maybe a little crazy but certainly just a tad more generating “the numbers” over the 44 Magnum for those of us that like “numbers”.:-D Never confuse commercial velocity numbers with numbers that can be generated by reloaders. As you might tell - I like the 45 Colt and consider it the "King" but also realize the 44 Magnum is the "Queen" that hauls the water.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup 5 hole I agree totally on the maximums. To much for me and ill stand up here and admit it. There guns for guys who shoot big stuff 2 or 3 times a week to keep it tuned up. Definitely not for the uninitiated!! I also have to wonder if in the real world there any advantage on game. The real deal breaker for me is you can buy 2 or 3 regular linebaughs for the price of one max. That is if you can even talk John into building another one. I think that's part of the deal with the price. It keeps people from asking for one. I also agree that the 45 colt loaded up to ruger level is as much of a mag as the 44 mag. My love of the 44 just comes from it being a lot less finiky to load for. Ive yet to own a 44 mag that wouldn't shoot 2 inch at 50 yards and I sure cant say that about the 45s I have and that includes some of my custom linebored guns. As a matter of fact ive got out of the box rugers that will cut that in half. Id bet I spend half as much time and half as much money in components finding good loads for 44s compared to 45s. All this said if we ever get a chance to meet PLEASE leave those maximums at home. I hate to look like a little girl hiding from one. Back when I was a bit younger maybe, but not any more. Cool thing is that if a guy goes out and shoots 20 or so heavy loads from even a normal linebaugh and then switches to a 44 mag even with 300s, its like shooting a 38 special. I used to do that before I benched my 44s and 45s and found I could really concentrate[smilie=1: on those LITTLE guns

[Lloyd Smale]

Never said anything of the kind. Ive shot PLENTY of game with the 45 and never seen it bounce off of anything. Mostly loaded to where I think the 45 should be. 250-280s at 900-1000 fps. It kills just fine at that level as does the 44 special, 44 mag, and yes even the 41 mag. If you put a good cast bullet into a deer, bear or pig at that level and you don't eat backstraps tomorrow its your fault not the gun or the load. To be truthfull more of my hunting has been with loads like that then any hairy chested stuff. Its kind of why my 44 specials are probably my favorite woods carry guns. That or a 44 mag loaded the same. Kind of like comparing an old chev Biscayne with a 300 hp 327 to an impala ss 409. Sure the ss is cool and the 409 is much stouter but for living with it day to day that 327 stripper got the job done with no muss or fuss.
Interesting reading from two gents that call it as they see it.
44 mag vs 45 colt, colt is a lesser cartridge because it isn't a magnum. Or at least that is the consensus among the masses. Anything bit a magnum bounces off.
I will throw this in but a bit off topic. If I had shot a 41 mag 25-30 years ago I would never have looked at a 44 magnum. The two I have impressed me right out the gate, unmodified or tinkered with.
I just got on the 45 wagon a couple of years ago. Not a lot to say as I have not put a lot of time in on it. 45 colt/ 45 acp cylinders. The acp is my cull bullet pulling device. It shoots outstanding and shouldn't.
The colt cylinder as most input says needs a little massaging and I think it will come around.

I am am with a lot of others and patiently await the call that at least one of my 480 Blackhawks has arrived.
Jeff

[JSH]

Llyod sorry if you thought that was directed at you, nor was it meant to be at anyone else.
I read your input and knowledge with high regards. You and a few others are ones I don't have to roll up my pants to read.
The magnum comment was directed at the masses. This country has magnumitis, yet there are cartridges that have come out in the last 10-15 years that have done nothing but put old ballistics into a new modern case with a new label.
There are folks that honestly believe that if a critter is shot with a "magnum" it will just give up.
You and 44 man have a lot of input that more folks should listen too and glean what they can from it.
Once again no offense meant.

[Lloyd Smale]

no offence taken. I do think your opinion of me is a bit overinflated though. Im just a shooter. I don't have the theory and the mathematics down like some do. I also tend to blow off a lot of the gun writer bunk and old wives tales around guns, loading and casting. Im a bit bullheaded and have kind of been there and done that and post only what ive seen with my own two eyes. But keep in mind that they are only two eyes and theres lots here that do things a bit differently then me and make it work for them just as well as it does for me. Theres a good group of very knowlegble guys here like 44man and old 5 hole group. . Ill argue a few minor things with them but I like you allways keep my ears and eyes open here. 10 years ago I would have said to listen to everyone here because the group was that good. Its a bit different today. But theres still a group of really sharp guys here.

[JSH]

11602 post? That many post I can usually draw a conclusion pretty quick as to how that happens. Yours is on a positive note as are others here. ;-)
I always liked the quote from I believe Jeff Cooper, "it ain't bragging if you can do it".