Annealing Starline 44wcf?

[LIMPINGJ]

Those of you shooting Starline 44wcf in a rifle with BP, do you find you need to anneal your brass? I have heard anneal before first loading and others that anneal after different numbers of loadings. Any of you shooting this brass what has been your experience?

[ndnchf]

In general, if shooting real black powder and you are getting blowby on the case, it may be time to anneal. If the case mouth is sealing well, I don't see the need for it.

[Paul_R]

Starline is famously hard brass. Good stuff but hard. On cases like 45-70/90 I get mine annealed when it's brand new and never had to do it again (using Starline and BP). I send it out because a socket in a drill is a guaranteed way to screw it up IMHA. I can get it done professionally for $.06 (anneal only) per case here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=818501

[country gent]

Starline states that thier brass should be annealed when using it for BP loads. I anneal my 45-70, 45-90, and 40-65 every other loading. Annealing isnt hard to do but you need to pay attention to what you are doing. The socket and tourch does work but some get it on the hot side. Color change and its description along with what is seen is subjective. The machines are better as time along with temp is controlled better. some use a lead pot with lead to heat the neck, this gives good heat control and depth but occassionally will "tin" a case neck. I have considered a iduction heater ( like is used in industry for heating bushings and bearing for installation) controlled heat no dirty or oxidizing flames controlled heat. I have been using a set up with a mag dipper lyman lead pot set to 800* filled with very fine silica sand. I check heat with lead thermometer and there is a rack to control depth and spacing. time putting one case in and removing the next around the circle cotrolls time. Again no impure flames or subjective color changes. Experiment and see what works for you. Templaq sells diffrent "paints that burn of at set known temps to help out here

[rr2241tx]

Sand in a lead pot is easy. Cover your rack just deep enough to cover the necks. Templac 750 is much more reliable than watching for a color change, at least for me.

[Paul_R]

Wow it never occurred to me to use sand, that's genius! I think you guys just saved me $0.06/case woohoo!

[Nueces]

I have a lead pot I could devote to annealing. What's a good source for this fine sand?

[country gent]

I got mine from a friend that worked for years at libbey owens glass making glass dinner ware and bottles. LOL. Very fine blasting sand or even fine glass beads should work. The big thing is to get clean sand, play sand will work but you want to heat it up the first few times outside as things will burn off. You want a rack with 3 plates. a solid domed plate with 1 hole in center for threaded rod and nuts. A center plate with 4-5 holes in center and a solid ring around the outside. This is the stop plate for the cases 2 1/4 20 nuts sets its hieght as a stop. Top plate has a series of 9/16" holes evenly spaced around the outside to hold cases. mine has 12 holes around the outside I believe. These locate and help keep cases straight in the sand. In use preheat to temp and slowly insert cases around ring to 1 empty hole remove a case and insert in empty hole repeat with all cases until done. Its quick easy and controlled as to heat, time and depth. Due to clean heat source ( not an oxidizing or carburizing flame) there is very little color change. I talked to starline tech about this and its what he gave as an answer as to lack of color lines. He also liked the idea for the added control of the process.

[Love Life]

If annealing with flame, kick your cases into a citric acid/water bath. all scaling is removed and after tumbling you can't tell they were annealed.

[Nueces]

Thanks, Gent.

[LIMPINGJ]

This is new brass which will be loaded with real black powder and is going to be shot in a Marlin 94. If it was you would you anneal before the first loading?

[Paul_R]

This is new brass which will be loaded with real black powder and is going to be shot in a Marlin 94. If it was you would you anneal before the first loading?

There's really no down side to annealing that brass, unless of course you don't do it right. Short answer - yes.

[country gent]

Yes I would anneal that brass before loading. STarline recomends that thier new brass is annealed before loading with black powder, there is ussually a note stating this in the black powder calibers also. I would anneal first trim to square up chamfer and deburr the size expand and load. Make sure your expander is of the appropriate size for your bullets dia. 44-40 is thin brass so care is recomended.

[cajun shooter]

I've been shooting BP powder since 1970 and the 44wcf and 45-70 since about 1973-74. The 44 wcf case was designed to eliminate any blowback from the firing of a full case of BP, and it does that job quite well without annealing. I use Starline brass most of the time but also use some WW and RP brass. I have found that the Starline brass case mouths hold up better than the other brand cases.
I have never had any blow back in any 1873 or 92 rifle while firing this cartridge. When fired the case fills the chamber and stops this from happening. I shoot nothing but the 44 wcf cartridge these days with some 45-70 thrown in.
The 45-70 is another story in that it will greatly improve the performance and accuracy of this round if the case mouths are annealed. They have some competitors that anneal the 45-70 before each loading. For my needs, I find that once every 3or 4 firings is fine.
For those that say you need to anneal the 44wcf case mouths tells me that they are neither familiar with the case or it's chamber design nor do they shoot BP powder in their loadings. Later David

[John Boy]

Because of the thin case walls at the mouth and the slight taper - I don't anneal 40WCF's shooting either black or smokeless. Blowback is not an issue