93% lead 7% antimony?

[Just The Tip]

Looking for some input on this alloy, found a place that sells a hard alloy of 92 and 7 antimony. Considerably less expensive than hardball 92,6,2 , wondering if anyone has experience using something along these lines? Has a Brinell Hardness Level of 25, I'll be coating the projectiles using HiTek and using them for IPSC and USPSA both .40 and 9mm.

Thanks

[bangerjim]

Dilute it and use it! I have a 10% Sb alloy I cut by 65% and it works great. Too much Sb and you will get antimonial wash in your barrel. I would not use it straight. 25 is just too hard for most usages! I use 9-12 in all my semis + PC. Plenty hard for most usages in semis and revolvers.

banger

[popper]

Probably much harder than needed. I did cast some from that alloy, then beat it HARD with a hammer and it didn't fracture! Seems contrary to the normal thought here. I'd cut it ~60/40 with pure for 9 & 40 which works fine in mine, also PCd and pushed hard.

[Just The Tip]

Thanks for the info, I'm trying to start a small scale production company to feed the local guys and if all goes well try expanding. I'd like to be able to use it as is to save time and with using HiTek I'm not overly worried about barrel deposits. I've got a sample on the way to see how it works out, I'll update once I've gotten some cast and coated.

[LAGS]

You need the tin to make it more flowable to fill out the mold.
And BHN 25 is way to hard for anything except a magnum, or rifles shooting over 2500 FPS.
Alloy it down a bit, and save some money.
Besides with no tin, the surface feels a little grainy.

[Nose Dive]

Heck...add some plumbers lead...smelt it, melt it, pour it out....SHOOT IT!

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[Greg S]

Sounds like Remington shot. Alittle bit harder than the standard hard shot and an advantage in the wee gauges for pattern density.

[RogerDat]

Why waste? Cut to a known good alloy percentage. Use a little solder or pewter to get the tin where it flows well and fills a mold well. Something like 2/3/95 would be a good target. Can coat or not coat still works well for most uses. Or use fairly low tin Pb/Sn to get actual hardball, another known alloy to work from. Consider the coating not only makes leading and antimony wash a non-issue it also allows you to push softer lead at velocities that would require hard lead if not coated. Sort of the point for many that coat. Soft lead casts a heavier bullet since lead is denser than the alloy substances. Jacketed don't have hard lead cores as a rule and coating is in effect making a jacket for the bullet.

Bet you would have no problem working out a swap of plain lead or lead/tin for some of that hard antimonial lead. Just saying if the antimony is not needed for your use it would be a kindness to swap it to someone that needs that hardness. Little more work for you but if you can trade at a ratio that gives you more lead than you ship it might be worth it from your standpoint too.

[bigjake]

What is antimonial wash? How can lead be too hard? is it harder than copper?
thanks


Dilute it and use it! I have a 10% Sb alloy I cut by 65% and it works great. Too much Sb and you will get antimonial wash in your barrel. I would not use it straight. 25 is just too hard for most usages! I use 9-12 in all my semis + PC. Plenty hard for most usages in semis and revolvers.

banger

[RogerDat]

What is antimonial wash? How can lead be too hard? is it harder than copper?
thanks

I'm no expert but obturation is the first thing that comes to mind. Bullet swells from the pressure behind being resisted by inertia. Squishes sort of like a marshmallow getting pressed from both ends. This helps the bullet seal and grip the rifling. Too hard won't do that. Copper jacket doesn't depend on that to get a grip on rifling.

Way too hard bullet will shatter rather than stay together and carry the momentum forward. Little bits of bullet have little bits of momentum. If hitting a bone turns the bullet into fragments then those fragments won't continue penetration, certainly not ideal when hunting. It is also just a plain old fashioned waste of alloy which generally equates to a waste of money. If BHN of 9 - 12 will work well why use enough alloy to get BHN of 25?

[bigjake]

" Copper jacket doesn't depend on that to get a grip on rifling".

How does hard copper grip the rifling? I don't get it. if the bullet is the right dia. why wouldn't it grip? what is the BHN of copper jackets? brass jackets?

[Whiterabbit]

What is antimonial wash? How can lead be too hard? is it harder than copper?
thanks

It looks like (and kinda acts like) moly "contamination" in your barrel. FOR ME, I don't worry about it. But I shoot a BFR in 460 S&W at 100 yards, and also my safari rifle @ 850 grains at (so far) 1900 fps. Even ith a gas check, this alloy (hardball, frankly) is qualified.

So in your case, I'd be cutting with some eutectic solder (I have a few pounds) to get to 2% tin and rock on.

---------------------

HOWEVER, for some pistol competition with "low pressure" pistol rounds shot at short distances (<25 yards) I would be cutting that lead 4 to 1 with the cheapest stuff I could find. 4 parts range scrap to 1 part of 7% antimonial lead.

OR, just cast and shoot straight range lead, and save the antimonial lead (with eutectic solder sweetening) for all rifle casting.

It's YOUR lead, do what you want. but from my chair, sure seems like a waste of antimonial lead to shoot it in 40S&W and 9mm for competition.

[popper]

9 & 40 are med pressure 3% Sb is all you need. Jacketed slump inside the jacket to fill out the bore - army tests.

[srtolly]

I'm far from an expert but I only use a bhn of 16 in my full magnum loads and about bhn 10 for my .45 acp loads for uspsa.

[LAGS]

Any kind of Wash or fouling in a barrel is Perpetual.
Even copper fouling.
Once a dis-similar metal starts to coat a surface, that same metal woll stick to the fouling and start to build up.
Lead sticks to lead better than it sticks to steel.
But once you start getting a lead, or copper or Antimony build up, the same metal will start building rapidly.
It is like waxing snow skis or a surfboard.
The first coat of wax is hard to apply evenly and get it to stick.
But after that coat, you can rub a bar of wax across the waxed surface and it will start building layers very rapidly.

[sharpshooter3040]

Softer boolits shoot better and don't lead your bore. They have to seal the bore when the big light hits the base or they will gas cut and make a mess in your barrel. It true if you hot rod them they will do better, for obvious reasons. Cutting it down makes sense for many reasons economical and practical

[Whiterabbit]

Oh rats. I meant to take a picture of the wash in my BFR. Forgot, and now I won't get the chance for a week. Hopefully I can remember to do that come Friday. Really does look hazy grey though, like moly but lighter and without the shine.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

OP, Sir where are you getting that alloy? In Canada? Is it coming from MetalX in B.C. by any chance?
If price is right I would love to have some 93-7!
shipping would be a killer if out of the Great White , BUT I remember pulling lead from Canada for about 60% what we where quoted for SAME in the US- circa 2001
Now I can get 94-6 by the ton out of Casa Grande, Az (Seafab Metals). Always Loved the way the higher tin rate formed out the crisp line on the molds and good for med. to High velocity, if coated should make dam fine bullets....

[LAGS]

The Sea Fab 92-6-2 stuff is great. Basicly Hardball
I have another forum member pick me up 60 lb ingots from time to time since he lives down there.
I cant get there durring the week, so I pick it up from him on the weekend.
Saves me all the shipping charges even to Mesa.
I make it worth my friends while to fetch it for me.

[runfiverun]

after reading this thread it sounds to me like a few posters need to learn how different alloys react under pressure and duress.
what they think about antimony in a lead alloy is un-true, what they are thinking about antimony mixed with tin in a lead alloy is more correct.
antimony is not the bad guy, [when it comes to the alloys malleability] tin is more problematic and is even more problematic when antimony is present.

for what the op wants.
I think he would be better served cutting the alloy in half with pure lead and adding in about 1% tin.
this would be his better option as far as cost effectiveness and a quality consistent product, that will work for his production needs.

[scottfire1957]

See R5R's answer above. Money, if you are selling, is the answer. Turn 100# into 202#. Still great alloy, double the profit, or more.

Super hardisn't always super good. Do some reading and research.