38 Special 125gr LRN Reversed?

[davidheart]

Howdy, I have a quick question for y'all. A friend of mine gave me a bunch of plinker loads he made for 38 special so I could do some practicing. Thing is, he loaded 4.2gr unique and reverse seated a 158gr Cast SWC all the way to the base so it appears as if the load has no head. He said he likes doing this because he gets a clean punch on paper and he could visually inspect (no head) to know if he's shooting a hunting load or a plinking load. I chronoed his load in my Taurus 605 and I'm getting ~630fps and no pressure signs.

I want to duplicate his method, but I don't have any unique. I have Ramshot Competition and I have Bullseye and I have a LOT of 125gr boolits. Any of you done this before? Have any load recommendations? I want to be safe about it. Thank you!

[HATCH]

I guess it would be like a wad cutter.
flat point boolits make perfect circles.
round nose tear the paper

[bedbugbilly]

Hmmmm . . . certainly different!

I use BE for my 38s. I have several Ideal/Lyman WC molds but personally, I don't like them. Don't ask me why . . I just don't? I do use the Lee SWC that is tumble lubed and it works very well - cuts a nice clean round hole - but I load 'em normal end out. But that doesn't answer your question.

If I was going to try it like you are talking about (and this is just my idea) - I'd measure the overall length of your 125 gr. boolits - I'm assuming they are SWC? Then I'd try and find the overall length of a 125 gr. wadcutter. I'm guessing that due to the nose shape of the 125 SWC, it might be a tad longer than the 125 gr WC - but probably not by much? Then I'd look for data for using BE (as an example) for a 125 gr WC that's seated flush and start with the minimum charge and work up from there until you found a "reasonable" (i.e. not excessive) charge that gave your good accuracy.

From your description, it sounds like your friend loads his SWC backwards so he can tell if it's a plinker or a hunter. Personally, I'd load them all the way they were designed to be loaded and just mark the base of the casings with a felt pen to denote plinker or hunters. When I use paper targets, I use a cardboard backer cut from a box. If it's been shot all to heck after a number of range visits, I change it - it helps to have a good backer to give you a good hole regardless of what the bullet design is. I also load a lot of RN in different gr. weights - 120 to 160 and in between. They seem to punch good round holes when the target backer is good . . . when all shot up, they will tear more than the SWC that I use.

I really hope you'll post what you come up with and how it works out for you as I'd think it would be interesting! I'd love to see some photos of the cartridges as well. Good luck and have fun!

[HATCH]

I got a 105 grain mini wadcutter I use. Does about 675 fps. My 9yo daughter shoots them all day long.

[williamwaco]

Howdy, I have a quick question for y'all. A friend of mine gave me a bunch of plinker loads he made for 38 special so I could do some practicing. Thing is, he loaded 4.2gr unique and reverse seated a 158gr Cast SWC all the way to the base so it appears as if the load has no head. He said he likes doing this because he gets a clean punch on paper and he could visually inspect (no head) to know if he's shooting a hunting load or a plinking load. I chronoed his load in my Taurus 605 and I'm getting ~630fps and no pressure signs.

I want to duplicate his method, but I don't have any unique. I have Ramshot Competition and I have Bullseye and I have a LOT of 125gr boolits. Any of you done this before? Have any load recommendations? I want to be safe about it. Thank you!

That bullet should cut a perfect hole either way.

With BE start with 3.0 and work up to 3.5 one tenth at a time until you get the recoil level you like.

I use 3.2 grains myself but I do not load the bullet backwards.

2.7 is minimum. At that level you rarely get a clean hole. It is going so slow it just tears the paper.

[lancem]

Be careful with pressures, it would seem to me you have a lot more lead in the case than you would if it was loaded correctly, less case space, more pressure.

[SOFMatchstaff]

I used to load a 185gr #452389 in a 45 LC seated up side down for PPC matches, shot very accurate. Called it my boat tail wadcutter. left a real big hole in the X and Ten ring. If I remember right I used red dot. just under 800fps and NO doubt about whether it cut a line or not.

[Petrol & Powder]

Reverse loading a 158gr SWC would not be my method to get a WC profile. That SWC will cut decent holes in paper when loaded normally and if you need sharper holes in paper that is what they make wadcutters for.
I'd be a little concerned with reducing the available case volume with a reverse loaded bullet but the conservative powder charge and your observed low velocities seem to indicate it's ok within those limits. This falls squarely into the "why" category. What are you gaining?
Using a 125 gr bullet really puts me in the "what are you gaining" view point. I just don't see an advantage.

[davidheart]

Well, he was loading 158gr SWC. I'm loading 124 LRN, so mine don't cut a clean hole. I'd start low and work up, but I'm concerned about *sudden* pressure spike instead of gradual pressure signs. Is this a concern I should even have with these powders?

[Petrol & Powder]

So your goal is to cut a clean hole in a target?

[davidheart]

So your goal is to cut a clean hole in a target?

To cut a clean hole and visually inspect a round to know if it's a plinker or hunting/SD round.

[Petrol & Powder]

To cut a clean hole and visually inspect a round to know if it's a plinker or hunting/SD round.

124gr LRN isn't a hunting/SD round, so that leaves plinker which is currently self evident as a 124gr LRN. If you want to cut clean holes in targets and be able to instantly identify that bullet, buy a WC mold.

[FullTang]

It does seem that the best solution would be to just buy some 148 grain wadcutters, since there are tons of loads for those. However, since you asked about how to wildcat this load with a backwards 125 gr LRN bullet, here's one way to go about it: get load data for 148 gr LWCs, and use your bullets backwards instead. Seat them to the specified depth (ie wadcutter depth---nearly flush with the case mouth), and you will still have more internal case volume than you would with the 148s (since 125 gr of lead must take up less volume than 148 gr.) Now, I have seen studies of backward loaded rifle bullets showing that pressures increase quite a bit if you are using a spitzer bullet (pressure may be generated differently), but since you're starting out with a lighter bullet, which takes up less space in the case, you should be just fine.

[Petrol & Powder]

Maybe I have the wrong attitude but this entire exercise feels like a solution in search of a problem.

Just because someone loads a 158gr SWC backwards doesn't mean that is a good idea or you should try to copy it with a 124gr LRN. If your goal is to cut clean holes in targets and be able to quickly identify cartridges, solutions for those issues already exist.

I fail to see the advantage.

[MT Gianni]

I really try to get a perfect base on the bullets I keep as I believe that a full base contacting the bore lets the bullet exit without deformation and provides a perfect exit at the throat. I also am aware that Lee sells a wadcutter mold for around $25.
I think this practice is secondary to accuracy especially regarding the cost of primers and powders. Saving $$ but not using the proper tool [wadcutter] is not helping the overall picture, IMO.

[Petrol & Powder]

I really try to get a perfect base on the bullets I keep as I believe that a full base contacting the bore lets the bullet exit without deformation and provides a perfect exit at the throat. I also am aware that Lee sells a wadcutter mold for around $25.
I think this practice is secondary to accuracy especially regarding the cost of primers and powders. Saving $$ but not using the proper tool [wadcutter] is not helping the overall picture, IMO.

I have to agree with this. In terms of accuracy the base of the bullet is more important than the nose. You have to look at the big picture and the small amount of money you would save in the short term would disappear when your supply of LRN bullets was exhausted.

[gray wolf]

Tell you friend thank you for the advise and move on to proper loading techniques.

If you scoring a target is so important get the proper bullet for the task at hand.

[Gus Youmans]

davidheart,

Although I suspect you are going to have less than satisfactory results with your experiment I am curious about the results. I would use williamwaco's load info and see what you get. Recommend that you load some of the bullets conventionally and some reversed using the same data and see which achieves more satisfactory results.

Please post your findings.

Gus Youmans

[Low Budget Shooter]

I agree with the advice that if you want wadcutter profile, you should just use wadcutter bullets. BUT, I have tried what you are describing. I don't know how accuracy would be at long range, but for 10-yard paper punchers, round-nosed bullets seated upside down worked well in my .38 Special revolvers. I don't load them like that now, but it was an interesting experiment that worked fine.