44mag Blackhawk or Redhawk

[218bee]

Been wanting a new to me 44 mag and was looking at some Smith 29's (want blue not stainless) and they are getting waaaay pricey. So as I'm looking for something to carry and shoot, I was thinking of the old standby Super Blackhawk. But was wondering if anyone had any experience with the Redhawk. Not "Super" Redhawk just Redhawk. Once again I want a blued gun not stainless. The one advantage I see to the Redhawk for my tastes is a 5" barrel. Although I regularly shoot a regular Blackhawk 45 Colt with a 7 1/2 and its not too bad. But I don't hear much about the straight blued Redhawk. What say ye?

[AlaskaMike]

It probably boils down to whether you want single or double action. They're both great guns.

Mike

[jhrosier]

I have the 5-1/2" Redhawk and a 4-5/8" Super Blackhawk, both stainless.
I find the Super Blackhawk to be easier to shoot accurately and the recoil is more easily controlled.
With little practice, I can shoot as fast and accurately with the Super Blackhawk.
The Redhawk just stays in the safe, slowly turning into trading material.

Jack

[218bee]

Probably won't shoot double action much if at all, just wondering how they compare shootin and carryin wise. Didn't realize the Super Blackhawk came with a shorter barrel than 7 1/2 as thats all I see.

[garandsrus]

I have a stainless Redhawk in .44 Mag. I bought it when I was going to Alaska for an extended fishing trip. It was going to be my "fishing gun". If a bear wanted my fish, they could have them, but I planned on fishing tomorrow also :) As a result I bought the Redhawk because it was double action!

I did go fishing in Alaska, but didn't take the pistol. We went in the fall and did some bird hunting also so we had a shotgun with us.

John

[klausg]

218 bee-
I'm somewhat in the same boat as "jh" above, except my SBH is blued. I wasn't too happy with the factory grips on the RH so I put on a Pachmayr 'Presentation' grip. Both of mine are as accurate as I am, with a slight nod to the SBH. As far as recoil goes, the nod goes to the RH, particularily with my bear loads. The SBH is significantly lighter; I never weighed either revolver, just a subjective feel. The 5 1/2" RH with a full load of 320 grainers is right about at the maximum amount of weight I'm willing to have strapped to my chest all day. Hope this helps.

-Klaus

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont think your going to save a pile of money picking a redhawk over a smith. You would save some with a super blackhawk. There all good guns and each has its advantages and disadvantages over the other. thats why i have at least two of each!!!

[454PB]

Both the SBH and RH are excellent guns, but the RH is built like a tank and a lot faster to reload. The extra weight makes it easier to control, but harder to carry.

I'd suggest you get one of each as Lloyd says.

[MT Gianni]

I have a 44 Redhawk in 5.5" and love it. It replaced a Super Blackhawk and I sold a 624 44 spl as the Redhawk was much more accurate with special loads. The throats are right, the double-action pull is OK and it has a front sight that is easily swapped for a colored inset blade. Gianni

[targetshootr]

The trigger on my blue 5 1/2" 44 RH is not as crisp as my single actions so I don't shoot it as well. Or maybe the hammer drop time is longer but anyhow it's going to become a 4" 45 colt someday.

[buckshot&brass]

I have a RH in 41 mag. so all i can really comment on is the fact that the trigger can be slicked up mine is sweet in single and double.I really didn't care for the factory grips either,can't remember what I replaced them with but I love it now.One of the few pistols I can actually shoot well.

[lathesmith]

I love my Smith N-frame, but after working with it I was kinda shocked at how fragile it is--compared to my SBH hunter, or a Redhawk. I love my SBH Hunter, it is very accurate and scope-friendly, if you like that sort of thing on a revolver(I do occasionally). The Redhawk is a great gun too, I have owned them in the past and would love to have another. If you are looking to shoot honest-to-gosh 44mag loads, you can't go wrong with either one, really. But I think you are doing yourself a favor by avoiding the Smith IF you shoot lots of high-power loads. I'll probably get flamed for stating this, but it's true. The Smith is a great gun, but it just ain't as beefy, and you will be much happier with it if you shoot creampuff loads most of the time and flame-belchers only every once in a while. Come to think of it that is mostly what I do anyhow.
lathesmith

[MtGun44]

Newer 629 and 29 have significant improvements in durability, Brian
Pearce has an article on some of the many small improvements in
the design and execution in the last decade or so.

Of course, the SBH and RH are STILL much beefier, but also bigger,
heavier and less suitable for everyday holster wear, like in bear
country.

But - you may be just fine with the size and wt, so go for it. I like
the 329 for backpacking carry in griz country, but I'm a little guy and
backpacking is already a heavily loaded game, no need for extra
weight.

Bill

[EDK]

If you shoot a lot of low end loads, get a S&W.

If you like something a bit hotter, get a SUPER BLACK HAWK. I prefer the 5.5 inch guns, with either a HUNTER/DRAGOON grip frame, or even better altered to a 5.5 inch BISLEY or cut a 7.5 inch BISLEY back to 5.5. I got them all and I've had the 4 5/8, 7 1/2 and 10 1/2 inch guns also. The 5.5 is optimum for my purposes.

I just never could warm up to the REDHAWK/SUPER REDHAWK. Too d--- big for me to carry comfortably in the woods or on a horse. I'm real into what John Taffin called "Perfect Packin' Pistols" and the 5.5 inch Rugers work for me; a 5 inch S&W is awful good too, but it isn't near as tough as the SUPERS/Original Size VAQUEROS I like.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[Bret4207]

Rugers are stout, but jeeze they're heavy. If you have to carry it that makes a difference. The BH is lighter then the RH. I'd take a Smiff over either, but for carrying much I'd take the lighter of the Rugers. If it's going to be a range type gun then I'd get the one that appeals the most to you.

[EDK]

+! on Bret's comments on weight. Good leather will let you carry a lot more comfortably.

One of my pet peeves has always been using a *** holster on an expensive handgun...and an even flimsier belt! I used lined MILT SPARKS "Hackathorn Special models" for autos and revolvers on some of his lined and contoured belts for comfortable carry while doing any number of chores on the farm. 30 years later, the holsters are still good; the belts eventually wear out...and there's about 30 pounds "more of me to love" since 1980! Since I'm into Cowboy Action Shooting currently, I'm using MERNICKLE belts and holsters....but models designed to use all day long comfortably.

Take a hint on carry leather from what law enforcement uses. Heavy duty belt; heavy duty holster. You'll be carrying about half the weight, but what works for an 8 hour+ day for them is a good place to start.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[44man]

NOBODY shoots a big bore double action unless for fun or with a bear sitting on your chest. In that case you will only get one shot anyway. Double action shooting only works with super light loads. There is not a single advantage with a double action big bore over a single action due to the recoil.
The RH has a horrible spring system where the mainspring is also the trigger spring. The SRH is MUCH better as is the S&W.
If you can't remember to pull back the hammer on a SBH, you should not have a gun! :Fire:Poke the bear in the eye with your fishing rod! :mrgreen:

[45 2.1]

NOBODY shoots a big bore double action unless for fun or with a bear sitting on your chest. I've got a big, tall, large handed friend that shoots a 500 S&W with medium hot loads that way. Never say never. In that case you will only get one shot anyway. Double action shooting only works with super light loads. There is not a single advantage with a double action big bore over a single action due to the recoil. Were going to have to disagree on the preceding.
The RH has a horrible spring system where the mainspring is also the trigger spring. Tuned up they do really well. The SRH is MUCH better as is the S&W.

[44man]

I have worked on RH's and made decent triggers but if you say it is easy and the trigger is better then a S&W or a SRH or even my SBH with a 1-1/2# pull, you would be wrong.
I, too have shot heavy revolvers double action but who do you know that hunts double action??????????? When you want accuracy and only have one good shot, who will shoot double action??????
Does your friend HUNT double action or does he just shoot for fun that way?????
I don't know a single ethical hunter that will shoot at game double action.
For protection it is OK but there is no other use for double action except for games.
The average shooter will SUCK double action! [smilie=1:

[218bee]

:coffee:

[45 2.1]

I have worked on RH's and made decent triggers but if you say it is easy and the trigger is better then a S&W or a SRH or even my SBH with a 1-1/2# pull, you would be wrong. You haven't shot all the triggers out there, have you? Might be someone knows more than you do about it. Some really fabulous triggers on the old Colts too.
I, too have shot heavy revolvers double action but who do you know that hunts double action??????????? When you want accuracy and only have one good shot, who will shoot double action?????? All depends on the time frame you have to shoot in.
Does your friend HUNT double action or does he just shoot for fun that way????? He hunts like that, his life depended on that skill as a Chicago cop back in the mid 60s.
I don't know a single ethical hunter that will shoot at game double action.
For protection it is OK but there is no other use for double action except for games.
The average shooter will SUCK double action! Again, we're going to have to disagree on the above. I think Bill Jordan would disagree with you also.

[MT Gianni]

44 Man, unless you practice double action and weak hand you will suck whether shooting 38 PPC loads or 44 screamers. I don't intentionally hunt double action but practice with all my double actions enough that I don't have to think when usung them. Gianni

[Bret4207]

I have worked on RH's and made decent triggers but if you say it is easy and the trigger is better then a S&W or a SRH or even my SBH with a 1-1/2# pull, you would be wrong.
I, too have shot heavy revolvers double action but who do you know that hunts double action??????????? When you want accuracy and only have one good shot, who will shoot double action??????
Does your friend HUNT double action or does he just shoot for fun that way?????
I don't know a single ethical hunter that will shoot at game double action.
For protection it is OK but there is no other use for double action except for games.
The average shooter will SUCK double action! [smilie=1:



If I could spell Au contraire Mon Amiee I would say it now! Never, ever discount double action shooting to someone who has spent hours and hours learning how to handle a DA revolver.

[44man]

Seems as if a lot of you have "Jerry M." stamped on your foreheads! :mrgreen: I can only say "Show me." Bring your .480 or .500 out and show me how you shoot deer to 100 yd's double action!
MT says it best in that he does not intentionally hunt double action but I still wonder what unintentionally means?
I have spent years shooting .44's double action and I can hit good at close range but when it comes to game, the hammer comes back first and also if I need a quick second shot.
Unless you are blasting at a charging bear at close range, there is absolutely no reason to shoot at game double action. Next some of you will tell me you hunt shooting double action from the hip after a quick draw.
I still say only one out of a thousand shooters can handle double action and if you are buying a double action for hunting, you are just fooling yourself.
I invite any of you to come over and demonstrate. I will set out a liter bottle at 100 yd's so you can shoot it off double action. When you get low on ammo, then I will let you shoot single action at it.
I wonder how many of you can hit the bottle off hand at 50 yd's?
Stunts do not belong in the game fields.
We spent years shooting double action, heavy .44 loads, at tires rolled down hills, with a sheet of cardboard in the center of the tire. We got darn good but if I told you I hunt deer that way, I would be lying to you.

[waksupi]

I've had training from several instructors from various branches of law enforcement, in shooting double action over the years. I can do it pretty well, but wouldn't use it on anything but a very close bad guy, or gophers.

[garandsrus]

Unless you are blasting at a charging bear at close range, there is absolutely no reason to shoot at game double action.

44Man,

Your comment is exactly why I got the Redhawk instead of Balckhawk... Would I choose to hunt double action if I could use single action? No...

Have I taken a deer double action? Yes, at about 30 yards... I used my PPC gun (S&W 686 .357) that has a bobbed hammer and trigger stop. It is set up so that it doesn't shoot single action any more. The trigger has been tuned, and you can hold it just shy of breaking for as long as you want to, so it is a very different double action than most guns, but it is still double action.

I shoot a fair amount of PPC and most of the positions require double action shooting. Some of the targets you will see at a match are amazing.

John

[Bass Ackward]

When I was a kid I met a gentleman by the last name of Johnson. Both him and his wife held numerous shooting titles and was even national champs supposedly in different categories from small bore to shotguns. I think I was told that he even shot in the Olympics too.

Well I met Mr Johnson my first year deer hunting. And since he was staying with us, he was obliged to do some shooting. The most amazing thing that he did that impressed me was to take an old J-frame 38 special and double action shoot cans off the 100 yard back stop using one hand. I didn't think that thing would hold paper at 50 for any of us.

Back in those days, deer were fairly scarce around here. I didn't get one that year and as a 12 year old was feeling pretty low. Mr Johnson told me that he had hunted deer all his life and never shot a single one. He said that he had had various opportunities, but never connected. Now I suppose that he was in his mid-50s by then. (When you are a kid, everyone looks old) The others started razzing him about a 30 yard shot he didn't make and he turned all red, so I guess it was true.

That never left me. A man that is a remarkable shot with ever category of firearms that just got rattled enough to never connect.

I was aiming at deer in by back yard the other day and was realizing (all over again) how maximum distance moved in because of low light conditions. Man has to know his limitations and then live with himself later, no matter what or how he shoots.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on the argument. I shoot both ways. Ive shot alot of ppc and actually do better double action with my ppc gun then i can do single action. What it takes though is a good smooth DA pull and NO out of the box da gun has a good enough one to use in the hunting field. Now after saying that ive shot deer and pigs with my 629 using full power loads in da. Now granted that isnt a 500 but a 4 inch smith shooting 240s at 1400 fps has some recoil. Again at 25 yards i can shoot it as well or better DA as i can SA but the trigger on that one has been massaged too. to say it isnt ethical to do it is hogwash (sorry 44man). Whats ethical for one man might not be for another but you cant make judgements on your own ability for everyone. How many times have you heard inexperienced hunters claim a handgun or bow wasnt an ethical hunting weapon. All it takes is practice. When i took up ppc i shot DA guns just about everyday for two years and believe me a guy can get good at it. Rolling around coffee cans at a 100 yards was gravy. As to dangerous game back up thats a differnt story. I dont buy into the whole argument anyway as out of a 1000 guys discussing it MAYBE one will actually get into that circumstance and most of the time its someone who doesnt have enough experience with his gun to have it make a differnce. I will say though that it means more to be familar with your gun then the style of gun you shoot. If youve shot 10000 rounds out of your gun in single action and practice drawing and presenting your single action its going to be automatic to cock the hammer as you present it and to cock it again for the follow up. Same thing if you practice in DA the same way. But if you dont practice it doesnt mean a pinch what kind of gun you have or how big or small the caliber of the gun is, your probably going to get hurt. You guys know i shoot as much big bore handgun as anyone here. My thoughts are this. I would no doubt hunt with a handgun (its about the only way i hunt) if i was hunting dangerous game. But my idea of carrying a gun for protection or for chasing after wounded game is certainly differnt. If im in a cituation that makes me nervous enough to feel i need a gun to protect myself against something truely dangerous im packing a big bore rifle. Not because i feel a handgun isnt powerful enough its just that even for a very experienced handgunner its tough to make a shot under the pressure of a cituation like that and a rifle is much more user friendly. Now not talking walking in the woods where black bear pigs wolves or moose are. Im talking truely dangerous game and the only one i consider in that catagory on this side of the ocean is the brown and grizzly bear and ill never encounter one of them in my lifetime. Now if i did how would i shoot it? probably single action because i shoot so many different types of handguns that when i practice for hunting situations i practice in single action because you can use those skills with any gun. I dont want to pull one of my linebaughs and have my brain try to get me to shoot it DA because I practiced drawing and shooting quickly DA

[44man]

That's funny but true Bass. Back when I shot competition archery with recurves and the start of compounds, I knew some great shots. Shooting would be neck and neck with me winning sometimes and one of them other times. I shot 3 deer my first year hunting but all of the others never shot a deer. I read where the average time an archer hunted for a deer before killing one was 15 years. It was true if you watched all of the expert archers come home empty handed.
I have a friend that comes to hunt with his revolver every year. I put up cardboard deer for him to shoot at from the stand and he plunks shots in the heart every shot but he can't hit a deer. I found his boolit in a tree 10 feet from where a deer was standing! :roll: It's going on 10 years now without him even knocking a hair from a deer. He also misses all of them with a bow.
My neighbor down the road needs to shoot at about 5 deer with his rifles before he hits one.
When someone says he shoots deer double action it means only one of two things---He is dead calm and a great shot or he is average and trying stunts he shouldn't. I have nothing against the expert doing it but the average revolver shot should never attempt it.
Since we have so many new guys here, I don't want to tell them they can hunt double action. It is hard enough for them single action.
Yes, I had a S&W that would stop just before the trigger broke, double action and it was just like a single action pull from that point but I still hunted by cocking the hammer. How many guys can control that when a deer is in front of them or they have gloves on? I have been blessed with any buck fever going away when it came time to shoot and have killed so many deer that I no longer get it. Now how many here can hold up their hand and say they never get excited?
If it was so easy shooting game double action, nobody would use rifles. That neighbor I talked about has spent about one hour in his stand with a revolver before going up to the house for his rifle. :mrgreen:

[EDK]

In one of his books, Elmer Keith discussed slip shooting....and commented that it efffected his shooting conventional single or double action guns so much that he had to stop doing it....or do nothing else!

The way you shoot is how you'll react under stress. I was talking to the cop neighbor on the farm and had cleared the S&W 645 I was shooting and re-holstered when HIS dog bit me from behind. The CLICK of an empty chamber was deafening....and I was doing a malfunction drill on auto-pilot before I realized. I stopped before I shot the dog and strained the relationship any further. The dog eventually disappeared....I had nothing to do with that, but didn't cry about it either.

To paraphrase Lloyd, "A Ruger VAQUERO has a crummy double action pull." You do what you train to do.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[wonderwolf]

Going back to the original Q...I think it boils down more to grip selection. And how comfortable you are while shooting the gun. N frames work very well for me, even with factory stocks though I prefer hogues.

Don't get me started on triggers...its a relative subject

As far as double vs singles I prefer doubles. I like to start the hammer back using double then catch it and take it back to the single action sear. This is just what I prefer for fast follow up shots. DA will never need to be used unless you shoot PPC or are fighting for a spot on the food chain with a bear.

Some people can shoot double action well.....I have forced myself to learn how to on the revolvers I compete with. its a hurry up and take your time kind of thing.

:coffee:

[targetshootr]

Here's a bear charge someone posted on Ruger which can make you pee just watching it. I'd guess he used a DA of some kind.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw&feature=related

[badgeredd]

Been wanting a new to me 44 mag and was looking at some Smith 29's (want blue not stainless) and they are getting waaaay pricey. So as I'm looking for something to carry and shoot, I was thinking of the old standby Super Blackhawk. But was wondering if anyone had any experience with the Redhawk. Not "Super" Redhawk just Redhawk. Once again I want a blued gun not stainless. The one advantage I see to the Redhawk for my tastes is a 5" barrel. Although I regularly shoot a regular Blackhawk 45 Colt with a 7 1/2 and its not too bad. But I don't hear much about the straight blued Redhawk. What say ye?

Just to add my $.02 to the fray. Attached are my 41 Mag Redhawk (5.5") with my 5" barrel 45 LC Bisley grip Blackhawk and my S&W Model 29 Classic Magnum II in 44 Mag (7.5"is 3 lbs). I personally don't care for the "feel" of the Redhawk, The Blackhawk was a 7 1/2" barrel but I shortened to 5" even and I love its feel. The 44 Mag has a Pro-point and is carried every year in a holster I made for it to fit with the Pro-point. Three years ago I shot 4 deer at less than 25 yards in about 4 seconds, first shot single action and the remaining in slow double action. All dropped with-in 50 yds. The Blackhawk has been carried with a 7 1/2" barrel and the 5" it now sports. Last winter I shot 2 deer in about 3 seconds within 30 yds, obviously both were single action. Both fell in less than 50 yds. I tried the Redhawk maybe 10 years ago and didn't like the fell of it while carrying it, so I never tried it again. The Blackhawk as is weighs 2 lbs. 9 ozs., the Redhawk is 2 lbs. 14 ozs. while the Model 29 is 3 lbs. 14 ozs.
It is apparent that weight alone isn't the reason I like the pieces that I do. The balance on the Smith and the Blackhawk (with the shorter barrel) are much more comfortable for me. I guess I am saying that if one is comfortable with his sidearm, he'll shoot it well and practice with it more to insure he is accurate and proficient with it. I am much happier with the 5" barrel on the Blackhawk. I hope I haven't offended anyone but these are my feelings on the subject.

[Lloyd Smale]

I watched that video closely and it allmost looks like to me he cocked that gun. He sure did react fast though! I doubt many people woud have done much more then drop there jaw!
Here's a bear charge someone posted on Ruger which can make you pee just watching it. I'd guess he used a DA of some kind.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw&feature=related

[wonderwolf]

Wow, thats an impressive video I know my heart skipped a beat when I saw that.....but then again I just woke up lol . :Fire:

[44man]

At that close of a range and the impending danger, I see he shot into the water! [smilie=1: In other words, he MISSED the bear. What if the blast did not turn the bear and change her mind?
I consider him one lucky SOB, NOT a good shot. Maybe blanks are better for protection! If the bear had not changed her mind, there would be no second shot and they would be pulling parts of him from the bear.
Just what I have been saying, the expert can do it, the average shot can't, it can get you killed! When you NEED protection, you had better be prepared. To believe because your gun is double action, you can handle the situations, better think again.
What does it take? Hundreds of rounds every day, NOT weekly or monthly shooting. Most hunters never shoot until a few days before the season opens and some don't even do that. I know of guys that had the scope on a rifle calibrated in the store and went hunting without ever shooting the gun.
All of you "sperts" always challenge what I say but never explain to me why you think everyone does what you do.
I used to be able to pick up a beer bottle, throw it with my right arm as far as I could, with my Ruger Mark I in my left hand, grab the gun and shoot the bottle out of the air. Guess what? If I didn't do it for a few weeks, I had to start all over again tossing it up right in front of me with my left hand.
Don't EVER tell me you can shoot and hit everything you point at unless you shoot every day. Don't EVER tell me everyone can do it.
Some of you are good but you did not get that way by shooting a few times a year.

[targetshootr]

This is how it should be done.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=dopLg4SqzpA&feature=related

[EDK]

When someone talks about practice, they need to hear the Victor Borge comment. Victor was a concert pianist....and then became a comedian. He was asked how often he practiced on the piano and said "I practice every day. If I miss a day, I can tell the difference. If I miss two days, YOU can tell the difference!"

The holes in the paper tell the story, not the BS on the computer or in a bar...and that's not in a stress situation where you're about to get "bio degraded" permanently!

I shoot a pair of Original Size VAQUEROS in 357 or 44 daily, but I don't consider that a lot of help in a defensive situation. Maybe I need to get the 5 inch 629 or 625s out and do some serious double action shooting for awhile...or crank up the 645s. I was pretty fair with them when they got shot 40 or 50 rounds a day....but that was then and this is now!

If you practice enough, you can have "the cold confidence of a christian with four aces.;" if you don't "practice, practice, practice," reality can be harsh...or fatal!

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[shooting on a shoestring]

Well put EDK and 44. I think I'll shut off the computer and head for the range.

By the way I wonder why only 1 guy in the raft fired a shot?

I think the take home lesson is keep your raft out of bear county.

[waksupi]

I kind of suspect, and would EXPECT, that a heavy DGR would shoot completely through the bear at any angle, accounting for the water splash behind. Opps! Wrong attack. I was thinking of the one from Cabela's.

[lathesmith]

I think the guy in that video did exactly what he intended to do--and had room and time to pop that bear if he felt it necessary. With the camera angle, and his ready posture, they were obviously looking for that bear, and it showed up right where they anticipated it. You would expect a mama to be around with those three cubs, and you would also know that such a situation could be extremely dangerous. What a great video! I hope I never see that in person!

Some good points made in the posts here, especially the ones about excellent shots never being able to bring down actual game. That's amazing! It confirms what I have suspected all along--it takes more than a good(or great) shot to bring home game. I also like the observation about practice--what you practice is what you will do under stress. You can never get enough practice; even with the right temperment you are that much better with more practice. As I have observed many times, the more I practice, the luckier I get at things. And some people never make the connection. Oh well...
lathesmith

[Three44s]

Been wanting a new to me 44 mag and was looking at some Smith 29's (want blue not stainless) and they are getting waaaay pricey. So as I'm looking for something to carry and shoot, I was thinking of the old standby Super Blackhawk. But was wondering if anyone had any experience with the Redhawk. Not "Super" Redhawk just Redhawk. Once again I want a blued gun not stainless. The one advantage I see to the Redhawk for my tastes is a 5" barrel. Although I regularly shoot a regular Blackhawk 45 Colt with a 7 1/2 and its not too bad. But I don't hear much about the straight blued Redhawk. What say ye?

Whew ... the original question sure got buried!

218Bee,

Have you considered getting a shorter barreled Blackhawk in .45 LC to go with your current one?

The .45 LC is a darned good round when loaded appropriately in a Ruger Blackhawk.

As for Smiths, RH's and SRH's in .44 mag ........ I own one of each.

My Smith is a 629 MG ......... four inch tappered barrel ........ 39 oz of fury.

I like it. They pack very nicely ...... but it sure is not the tank that the Ruger DA's are and equally important the Ruger DA's come with a longer than SAMMI cylinder ..... very useful! The Smith's and Ruger SA's use regular length cylinders and are thus limited to SAMMI spec ammo.

My RH is a stainless 7.5" with the integral scope notches.

My SRH is a 9.5" ...........

I like both Rugers. Both have had trigger work and trust me ........ the Rugers properly tuned get real sweet ...... SA and DA alike. Just beware of this: If you use too light of hammer springs ..... any revolver can develop FTF's ...... Failure To Fire ........... Thats why spring kits come with a selection of weights .......

The Smith MG got REAL SWEET with just plenty of usage .... both live rounds and dry fire. It's trigger needs nothing! ......... picture breaking glass ......

The Rugers also benefitted from similar usage.

No Ruger can compare to a good Smith trigger ....... the transfer bar system precludes it.

Can they be good enough? ....... you bet!

The jazz about SA vs. DA guns:

I defer to Elmer Keith ...... read his timeless work: "Sixguns"

Here is how I broke into revolver shooting.

I bought a K22 Smith and placed grips identical to my Smith MG. I shoot it DA AND SA till it literaly is too hot to hold tightly. Then I switch to my bigger guns but using lighter loads ........ work up progressively to hotter .......... finnish with my bear loads.

What would I do differently today?

Eleven years to this month I began on my .44 odessy ........ 4-97. The first was the RH ........ too heavy .... I thought ......... Second was the Smith .......... not strong enough ..... or so I thought ......

Lastly I bought the SRH in 2000 figuring on a chop job .......... it still wears the humungous 9.5" barrel ........ I can't bring my self to chop it!

If I had it all to do over again ....... and bear in mind my original intent was DEFENSE .............. I would merely buy a 5.5" RH ....... the new 4 inch Redhawk was not available in '97 but today they are available in .44 and .45 LC ........

So I would today go with the 4" RH ............... For defense!

But I would have missed something! ................ For defense ....... the .44 and the .45 LC are grand ....... but there is MORE! ....... they are unabbashed hunting rounds too! ....... that's why my "too heavy" for easy packin' Rugers are still in my clutches ......:drinks:

So my taste in .44's has come full circle ........ for DEFENSE ...... the Smith MG is powerful enough and strong enough but PACKS and sports a trigger like SIN!

FOR HUNTING .......... the DA Rugers have virtually no peer!

.......... "It's my crazy life .... but it works for me"!

Three 44s

[218bee]

Three44's well put. I realize I need to see how each revolver I am looking at feels in MY hand. But I wanted some real world opinions of some guys thoughts that have used one or all. I know when you think of Ruger the first thought that comes to my mind is STRENGTH, and when I think of a Smith the fisrt thing I think of is a beautiful finish, trigger and quality. So I know the Redhawk weighs more but as I'm not a Cowboy or backpacker that may be ok. But I am still cruising gun shows/ shops to see what comes my way. I don't think I can go wrong with any of the three really. And I will practice, practice, practice...

[Whitworth]

Wow, folks sure do get emotional over their opinions. I watched the video and that is one scary charge and I do give the man kudos for his fast reaction with the handgun, but it sure does look to me like he missed in the heat of the moment -- JMHO.

All of my big-bores are double actions and that includes two M29 Smith .44 mags, a .480 Ruger SRH, a .454 Casull SRH, and a custom .475 Linebaugh SRH. I hunt with most of them and despite the fact that they are DA revolvers, I never shoot them DA and certainly don't when hunting. Now, I have shot the X-frame Smiths and to me they don't kick like my SRHs -- particularly my .475 loaded with 420 grain bullets at 1,350 fps. The weight and compensator seem to tame them down considerably, so I don't know if shooting them DA is feasible. I just don't see an advantage to shooting DA unless you are underneath a bear and the DA is the logical choice. That said, I just prefer the feel of a DA revolver over SA.

So, back to the original question at hand, you should go with whatever feels good to you and will inspire your confidence -- nothing else is important.

[jwp475]

44Man, is correct when states that that the trigger system on the Redhawks is inferior in design when copared to the SRH & S&W..

Anyone shooting full power loads with heavy wieght bullets will not be able to shoot a Double Action revolver accurately any faster in a hunting situation or on the range than one can shoot a single action big bore revolver. The hamer is recocked before you fully recover from recoil and regain your sight picture. The only advantage the DA has over the SA is the ability to load it quicker which is moot point on a big bore in the hunting fields..

[waksupi]

Another bear attack you may have missed.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc&feature=related

[Lloyd Smale]

ill argure that point. Id bet my house i can put 5 hits on a basketball sized target at 10 yards faster with a DA 454 then with a single action
44Man, is correct when states that that the trigger system on the Redhawks is inferior in design when copared to the SRH & S&W..

Anyone shooting full power loads with heavy wieght bullets will not be able to shoot a Double Action revolver accurately any faster in a hunting situation or on the range than one can shoot a single action big bore revolver. The hamer is recocked before you fully recover from recoil and regain your sight picture. The only advantage the DA has over the SA is the ability to load it quicker which is moot point on a big bore in the hunting fields..

[jwp475]

What wieght bullet, at what speed? We can bet back and forth all day.. How long do you think it takes to cock a SA? They can be recocked before fully rcovering from recoil IME

[Whitworth]

I can see arguing about this with lighter calibers like the .357 or .38 special, but I don't shoot light loads in my Casull, and I don't think many here could rip 5-shots off quickly of my 400 grain at 1,400 fps loads in DA and faster than an SA revolver. Not trying to be contrary, but my Casull with my heavy loads kicks nearly as hard as my .475 loaded to the maximum.

[jwp475]

ill argure that point. Id bet my house i can put 5 hits on a basketball sized target at 10 yards faster with a DA 454 then with a single action



I bet that Bob Munden can put six shots in that basketball sized target with a single action 45 Colt quicker than you can with any double action cal revolver of your choosing. I'd be willing to wager twice as fast...

[45 2.1]

I bet that Bob Munden can put six shots in that basketball sized target with a single action 45 Colt quicker than you can with any double action cal revolver of your choosing. I'd be willing to wager twice as fast...

Lets try Ed McGivern (if he was still alive that is) or Jerry M. against him.

[jwp475]

Lets try Ed McGivern (if he was still alive that is) or Jerry M. against him.



Let's do now that would be a contest worth watching.....http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/thumb.gif Lloyd wouldn't have a chance against Bob...

[waksupi]

I don't believe most understand double action shooting. You don't cycle the hammer back, and then aim. It is to be done in one smooth squeeze.

[jwp475]

I had assumed that as a given..

[44man]

Which means you have to come all the way down out of recoil before starting the trigger squeeze again while my single action is cocked and ready to go with a touch on the trigger. Seems to me my single action is faster by far!
Or do all of you double action shooters with heavy boolits, heavy loads start to pull the trigger as the gun is coming back down? I have to see that! :-D
Seems to me that all of the great, fast shooters use VERY light loads with no barrel rise to speak of.
Watch Mikelik, old movies of McGivern and Bob Munden, barrels do no go up to their heads but are pointing at the targets the whole time.
I want to see the experts shoot all shots in a basketball with full house .475 loads faster then a single action!
Watch the best CA shooters that cock the gun with their left thumb, super fast but they use loads that just barely get out of the barrel.
All I read about on these sites is how big tough guys get the skin ripped off of their hands from the big bores. Others get torn up from the hammers. Now everyone can rip off 5 or 6 shots double action and hit the target with all shots--- Give me a break!
Add to that the super light, 2" barrel carry gun in .480 or .500 that takes two arms and a leg to hold down and even one shot means wearing a helmet. Yeah, sure, I could plant potato's in the mess you make in the ground.
My standard answer is "Come show me." Leave the .38 at home, we have a gun for you! :mrgreen:
My guess is that even with a single action, 90% of you will flinch so bad with the .475 that I have to let you shoot over my garden so I don't have to till.

[Whitworth]

Can I get an AMEN!

+1

[jwp475]

+1.......http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/Beers.gif AMEN


44Man your post is spot on and it has me ROTF LMAO http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/ROFLMAO-smiley.gif

[Lloyd Smale]

no doubt but put michleck agains him with one of his smiths and see who wins.
I bet that Bob Munden can put six shots in that basketball sized target with a single action 45 Colt quicker than you can with any double action cal revolver of your choosing. I'd be willing to wager twice as fast...

[Lloyd Smale]

I realize this argument can go on forever. I know that i can put 5 shots on to a target faster with a 454 da then a can with a 454 single action ive timed it with my pact timer. Now thats me and maybe a guy that is better then me with a single action could beat my time but like was said with the recoil involved it isnt going to be by alot. As to cocking a single action on the way down why is that any easier then starting to stage a da trigger on the way down. When you shoot competion with a DA your doing that or your loosing. Its a natural way of shooting a da and i cant see why recoil changes that. What i dont have to do with a da i change my grip to cock the gun like i do with a da is regrip my gun everytime because recoil changed its position in my hand or move my thumb to cock the hammer. Also when shooting something like a 454 or bigger its not like the gun just recoils perfectly to the point that you smoothly just move your thumb over to the hammer and casually cock it like you do with a 45 colt shooting cowboy loads. Not have to cock a hammer is just one less thing you have to think about and I dont know about you but shooting a big bore fast takes all the consentration i can muster im God didnt bless me with perfect reflexs and a perfect brain. I played with shooting big bores alot. I had a ruger alaskan that i had moon clipped and as usual im posting my real life experineces here not guesses or someone elses opinion or about someone elses shooting skills. If you doubt i can put 5 shots on a basketball sized target quickly at 10 yards id suggest you fly on up here and ill gladly put you up for the weekend and you can come and watch yourself. Bottom line is i have no predudice in this. I probably shoot more single actions then i do double actions, just look at my signature line. I know i shoot as much big bore handgun as anyone here too so its not like i dont know what im talking about. Ill stand behind my statement. With a DA that has a tuned trigger and a man that has put in his time shooting it he will be faster then a SA.

[Bass Ackward]

Everything has advantages and with the good comes some bad. Seems when I force myself to look at my preferences over the years, DA got short barrels and SA had mostly longer. Long or short being defined by 6". Evidently, I saw DAs for shooting pleasure and SA for hunting. I've had extremes both ways, but not for very long. So if we haven't lost the fella with the original question, I wouldn't carry any more weight, have any bigger caliber than needed or have a longer barrel than I need to shoot the gun accurately and kill the can, paper, game at the range of interest.

Now if you can make heads or tails of that, you deserve a medal.

[Whitworth]

But Llloyd, what is the load you are using? Not all Casull loads are created equal...... Like I said above, my 400 grain loads recoil a lot harder than any 300 grain or lighter factory loads that I have shot. Just curious.

[BABore]

Ruger SRH 9 1/2", 480 Ruger, 1.75x scope. 400 gr LBT style over 24 grs WW 296 doing 1,250 fps. 6 DA rnds on a 20 lb propane cylinder at 50 yards in 3 seconds, witnessed. Ran through about 30 rnds before I started running 6 for 6. did it several times in a row. The trigger was breaking on the next round as soon as the gun bottomed out from the recoil. Great fun and very doable with a little practice.

Side note: I was standing on my heels after the last round.:-D

[Three44s]

Quote (44man)

"My standard answer is "Come show me." Leave the .38 at home, we have a gun for you!
My guess is that even with a single action, 90% of you will flinch so bad with the .475 that I have to let you shoot over my garden so I don't have to till."

Double action is no more limited to mere "38's" than it is guarenteed to work for all individuals under all conditions in the .475.

If bigger and one shot is the answer:

No offense, BUT I have the answer!

I'll tote my 105 howitzer over my shoulder and when something seems amiss ............

........... BOOOM ......... and miss or hit ...... I'll be in the next county ........ far ...... FAR away!

218 Bee asked about .44 mags and RH's vs. SBH's ....... not .38's nor .475's.

I have no knowledge about bore sizes larger than .44's ......... But do have a fair share of time behind .44s AND there is no doubt that IF you take the time and seriously work with a double action that fits you ............... .44 mag in double action is very do able.

Someone mentioned that the RH's trigger is inferior to the SRH and the Smith's.

On paper the SRH has an advantage in it's spring set up as trigger return and hammer fall are controlled by separate springs ....... and that "paper" advantage is why I bought a SRH ...... to replace my RH. (The RH uses but one spring for both jobs)

With my guns ....... both triggers done by the same gunsmith .......... I call these two specimens EQUAL! Try as I may, I can't decide which revolver to part with NOW!

My Smith's trigger is SUPERB ........... and untouched I might add.

I have no dog in the fight over SA guns vs. DA revolvers ...... BUT I do brisstle up at the notion advanced by many that the .44 is a SA cartridge only ......... it leads to myths and conjecture and ultimately to even more legions of shooters only working with the SA side of their DA big bore revolver.

Buy any gun you chose ....... it hardly affects me ......... but for those who do buy a DA ....... use it both ways ........ you can't condemn something you have not even given a fair try!

....... and buy and read Elmer Keith's "Sixguns" ........... it's timeless ....... and guns and people have changed LITTLE since it's debut in 1955!

Three 44s

[Whitworth]

BABore -- there is quite a bit of recoil difference from 1250 to 1400 fps with a 400 grain bullet. I have both a .475 and a .480 and they aren't in the same league recoil wise -- hence 44man's commentary.

Three44s -- I too have a couple of model 29s that I shoot DA as well. It is very much doable. My Lew Horton (3-inch barrel) when loaded hot jumps around a bit, but again, with practice it can be controlled well. That said, there is a HUGE difference in recoil between the heaviest possible loads in .44 magnum versus a .475 Linebaugh. But to suggest that shooting a .44 DA isn't feasible, is wrong as it most certainly is. My carry gun is my Lew Horton, and I in no way feel like I cannot control it or I wouldn't carry it.

[BABore]

BABore -- there is quite a bit of recoil difference from 1250 to 1400 fps with a 400 grain bullet. I have both a .475 and a .480 and they aren't in the same league recoil wise -- hence 44man's commentary.

Three44s -- I too have a couple of model 29s that I shoot DA as well. It is very much doable. My Lew Horton (3-inch barrel) when loaded hot jumps around a bit, but again, with practice it can be controlled well. That said, there is a HUGE difference in recoil between the heaviest possible loads in .44 magnum versus a .475 Linebaugh. But to suggest that shooting a .44 DA isn't feasible, is wrong as it most certainly is. My carry gun is my Lew Horton, and I in no way feel like I cannot control it or I wouldn't carry it.

I whole heartedly agree. Since I don't have a 475, I can only tell you what I have accomplished. Point is, it is a far cry above a 44 mag which is the topic of this debate. With a 44 Mag I can still keep my toes touching earth.

[jwp475]

For you guys that have to reposition your hand on a SA ( apparently not a problem With a DA according to Lloyd) and can't cock the hammer during reciol with your off hand and not need to repostion your grip then you should stay with the DA revolvers.. For those that have the dextierity to cock a SA with their off hand there will be little decernable difference in time. I own both and do not find that a double action is and advantage to accurate fast shooting.. I do know for a fact that felt recoil is definately worse with a DA

[218bee]

I do know for a fact that felt recoil is definately worse with a DA

I didn't realize the intense ferver I would create with my original question as I never mentioned anything larger than a 44 mag, or hunting "double action", or how fast I could shoot a revolver.
As to the above quote, I thought the grip and weight of MOST double action revolvers would make felt recoil less. I have a Blackhawk 41mag and a Smith 41mag with equivalent barrel lengths and the Smith recoils less (felt recoil and less "jump") than the Blackhawk with factory grips on each.
If we can get Munden and Mickulek here I'll roast the hog and supply the timing equipment........:Fire:

[jwp475]

If you don't find that a heavy loaded 41 or 44 in a S&W or Redhawk hits significant harder in the web of your hand than does a SA Bisley grip. Then your experience is certainly different than mine

[44man]

Shoot heavy .475 loads and the .44 is a PUSSYCAT. Yes DA with the .44 is even pleasant and fun. That was not the point. The point was that a new shooter to the big bores will think the .44 is HORRIBLE and DA is not going to be his cup of tea.
My suggestion is like everyone elses, buy the gun that feels good whether DA or SA but do not expect to shoot animals DA without tons of practice.
I don't understand the resistance I get when I say that????
I have seen too many .44's for sale with less then a box of ammo through them because the recoil scared the hell out of the guy.
My friend has the Freedon .475 and he REFUSES to bring it out to shoot because of the recoil. I let him shoot my BFR and he flinches so bad it is unreal.
All of you say DA is doable, yes it is but not for everyone and not for most of you with the REAL big bores.
Don't you understand that the .44 is not that bad? I shoot mine and wonder where the recoil is, it is TAME! BUT NOT TO THE BEGINNER!
I am not going to tell a new shooter to buy a DA because he can hunt that way, I will tell him to buy it because it fits him and feels good and to hunt SA with it until he shoots hundreds of rounds a day and has the experience. Even then it is never necessary to shoot DA.
But I get rediculous arguments from those that shoot a lot and are used to it. You inject ideas that because you and other shooters like Bob Munden and Jerry M. can do it, so can a new shooter!
The man asked a good question and some answers were to the effect that he can shoot at animals double action. I question that in a BIG way. When are some of you going to get off the soapbox and HELP the new guy?
I shoot ONE deer at a time. What the HELL would I do with 4 on the ground at one time????? Those that have too much money can haul them to a butcher or they just leave them rot in place. I am not impressed with those that blast a whole herd.

[BABore]

I don't understand the resistance I get when I say that????


Cause we all know your an opinionated ole goat and we like gettin you all rilled up. :bigsmyl2:

[Whitworth]

Yes he is!! But he's also right!:drinks:

[Lloyd Smale]

tell ya what. ive got 500s 475s 454s 45 colt and 44 mag Sa guns and Id about bet that NONE of them can be shot without having to regrip. Its the normal way a single action works. They roll in your hand. If you think you can hold on to a big bore and not have that grip rotate then let me intoduce you to one of my 4 inch bisley 500s. Id kind to like to know what the biggest round your shootin in a single action that your not having to reposistion the grip every shot as i normaly even let 32 mags roll in my hand. Witworth my go to load in the 454 is a ballistic cast 350 lfngc at 1500 out of a 4 5/8s barrel. Not top end but certainly stout.
For you guys that have to reposition your hand on a SA ( apparently not a problem With a DA according to Lloyd) and can't cock the hammer during reciol with your off hand and not need to repostion your grip then you should stay with the DA revolvers.. For those that have the dextierity to cock a SA with their off hand there will be little decernable difference in time. I own both and do not find that a double action is and advantage to accurate fast shooting.. I do know for a fact that felt recoil is definately worse with a DA

[Lloyd Smale]

yup and Jeff Gordon can drive a stock corvette faster then i could drive his stock car too. So whats that proving.
I bet that Bob Munden can put six shots in that basketball sized target with a single action 45 Colt quicker than you can with any double action cal revolver of your choosing. I'd be willing to wager twice as fast...

[jwp475]

Well, Lloyd I have 5 Freedom revolvers chambered in 454, I have 2 Ruger Bisleys converted to 475 and I have one Freedom Arms in 475, I have 1 Ruger Bisley in 500 Linebaugh, and 1 Freedom Arms in 500 JRH.

I grip the revolver and don not allow it to roll that's the purpose of the Bisley grip as oppossed to the plow handle shaped SBH grip.I allow my elbows to be the shock absorber

[jwp475]

yup and Jeff Gordon can drive a stock corvette faster then i could drive his stock car too. So whats that proving.

Exactly, and that's is what I thought when you made the claim that you could shoot a DA big bore faster accurately than I could shoot a SA..

Not sure that you can, but if you can what does that prove in reguards to the inherant speed that each are capaqble of?....

[Lloyd Smale]

I said that i could shoot a DA big bore faster then I COULD SHOOT A SA. Didnt see anywhere on the post where i said i could do anything faster then you. Again not saying this is you but even a bisley or a FA rolls some in MY hand with full power loads. I suppose in all the many rounds youve shot out of your linebaughs that youve never had the hammer come back and bite the web of your hand. If you havent your the first one ive heard that hasnt.

[jwp475]

I recieved my first 475 in 1988 and yes I have had that happen, because when firing these heavy recoiling revolvers there is a learning curve involved. I learned to grip them in such a manner as to eleminate the bite. If one is being physicaly injured while shooting it tends to make for in-accurate shots and no hand or shoulder fired weapon is powerful enough to take an animal with out proper shot placement..

[jwp475]

Lloyd, what DA 454 do you have????

[Lloyd Smale]

tell ya what im out of this argument you obviously know more then me. Ill just close with saying this. We were hunting buffalo two weeks ago with 500s. It was me and my best freind Al who is a shootist and one of John Linebaughs best friend. I dont care who your are or what you say this man has shot more 475s and 500s then anyone else in the country and NOBODY shoots them better in the field. If you doubt this give John a call. We both laughed at the end of the day becuase we had a little bloody spot on the web of our hands. If you think your gun isnt rollling in your had your either shooting loads that are light or have the hands of a gorilla! Im out of here!
I recieved my first 475 in 1988 and yes I have had that happen, because when firing these heavy recoiling revolvers there is a learning curve involved. I learned to grip them in such a manner as to eleminate the bite. If one is being physicaly injured while shooting it tends to make for in-accurate shots and no hand or shoulder fired weapon is powerful enough to take an animal with out proper shot placement..

[jwp475]

tell ya what im out of this argument you obviously know more then me. Ill just close with saying this. We were hunting buffalo two weeks ago with 500s. It was me and my best freind Al who is a shootist and one of John Linebaughs best friend. I dont care who your are or what you say this man has shot more 475s and 500s then anyone else in the country and NOBODY shoots them better in the field. If you doubt this give John a call. We both laughed at the end of the day becuase we had a little bloody spot on the web of our hands. If you think your gun isnt rollling in your had your either shooting loads that are light or have the hands of a gorilla! Im out of here!



How do you come away with this statement?


"tell ya what im out of this argument you obviously know more then me".

What does knowledge have to do with holding a six gun? Apparently if you can't or don't do it is impossable, right?



I took this Buffalo with my 500 Linebaugh with one shot and complete penetration (bullet exited) with a max loaded 525 grain WLFN that pentrated 50" at the Linebaugh Seminar at Jackson, Miss. last May, light loaded I don't think so, nice try Lloyd


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/parker_buffalo-1.jpg

[44man]

I have yet to have any load bother me or hurt me as long as the back of the trigger guard does not hit my knuckle. That still does not cause me to miss, it is just not pleasant. Pachmeyer grips does away with the problem. None of my revolvers will "roll" in my hand. Only a whimp hold will allow that. I find the Bisley the worst for heavy recoil.
My whole arm comes up in recoil, not just the gun and yes, I have large hands. I am 70 and can shoot anything.
I don't understand what a gun "rolling" means! My grip on the gun is the same at full recoil as it is before I pull the trigger.
I watch Whitworth shoot and he is the exact same way. I would not challange him, he is a great shot.
I never see a revolver pivot in the hand of a good shot. Why anyone thinks the hogleg pivots is beyond me. Girly men I suppose.
But some like form over function and like pretty grips instead of grips that work. My guns work and I don't care if they have ugly rubber grips or fancy, shiny wood panels. A wall hanger and bragging gun or one that works in the field. Take your pick!
None of you have answered how a beginner can go out and shoot 4 deer in 4 seconds, DA! [smilie=1:All I hear is bragging, no help to the original question.

[Whitworth]

Lloyd, can I ask what kind of .454 you have? Is it a Taurus by chance, or a Ruger SRH?

[jwp475]

I am interested to know how many rounds Lloyd and his pal fired at the Buffalo to cause bloody hands?

[Lloyd Smale]

44 man you obviously havent shot a 4 inch 500 bisley with 450s at 1300. theres a tad bit of muzzle flip with them. Youd can only grip a gun so tight before it induces tremors and in the field and under pressure you dont allways have the presents of mind to make sure of your grip. You may laugh at me but when i shoot them on the bench i do a mental check list before i squeeze the trigger and part of it is to make sure my hand placement is correct and my grip is firm enough. Ive shot 10s of thousands of rounds through my 500s but still do this when benching them. It beats cutting the web of your hand or bashing your knuckle or wearing a sight blade in the forehead. All of which ive done at one time or the other. Whitworth the DA 454 that i shoot now is a ruger alaskan that is moon clipped. Ive had a srh also and also do have a 4 5/8s FA. Guys weve argued enough jpw i had to chuckle at your statement (QUOTE) "What does knowledge have to do with holding a six gun? Apparently if you can't or don't do it is impossable, right?" thats exactly my point. I can shoot a DA 454 faster then i can a single action. If you do the same the other way does it make me wrong? We all have one thing in common we love big bores. We get enough flak from the guys that dont and think that what we do is nothing but a stunt so why should we feed the fire by saying that someone who is capable of shooting one DA is pulling a stunt. 44mag you get called out regularly by the doubters. I dont think anyone is shooting 4 deer in 4 seconds but if a guy can shoot a gun better DA then why say hes wrong for doing it. I know that i definately shoot better scores shoot ppc DA then i can SA. Everyone has a differnt prefernce in guns and a little differnt shooting style. Buy bottom line is very few people actually WILL PUT IN THE TIME TO REALLY MASTER a big bore handgun or even master DA shooting. There no such thing as a natural. It takes dedication and we have that in common.

[Lloyd Smale]

actually more then what we wanted. Started out with a miss (did i say i was honest) on a cow on the run. Then there was the fact we were testing soft pointed and hollow pointed bullets to see how they did on game the size of bufflalo and they failed miserably. We had bullets giving us about 4 inches of penetration. These bullets failed even on two different 4 horned sheep that day that were no bigger then a good sized whitetail. We also shot pigs that day so id guess between the two of us there was 8-10 shots fired each. A little more then the aveage hunt and some fired very quickly at wounded animals on the run threw the swamp. Learned one good lesson that day. Those hollow points and soft points may be good for deer in a 44 but there not the ticket for putting down big animals in the 500s. An expanded 500 is a pretty big parachute.
I am interested to know how many rounds Lloyd and his pal fired at the Buffalo to cause bloody hands?

[44man]

Lloyd, you wrapped it up nicely by saying the proper words.
Put in the time to master the gun!
I never doubted what you can do, only the fact that a guy buying a big bore for the first time just is not going to shoot good DA unless he shoots thousands of rounds, using good form for every shot.
I always said the gun pick should be what a fella likes and feels good in his hand but if the time is not put in, he should only shoot at game in a way that he is sure of a good hit. Even that takes practice but nowhere near what it takes to hit DA.
We all know the handgun is hard to master.
If you watch every one of Bob Mundens videos, pay attention to his hands. They are FILTHY from shooting. He must shoot several thousand rounds before the camera is turned on.
My gripe is when someone tells the new guy to buy DA because he can hunt that way. He should ONLY choose a DA because he likes the gun.
Let's leave out the protection part where any way the gun can be fired is better then no shot at all.
How many of you would sit for days in a deer stand and deliberately shoot at a big buck DA? Ha-Ha, I thought so! :drinks:

[jwp475]

actually more then what we wanted. Started out with a miss (did i say i was honest) on a cow on the run. Then there was the fact we were testing soft pointed and hollow pointed bullets to see how they did on game the size of bufflalo and they failed miserably. We had bullets giving us about 4 inches of penetration. These bullets failed even on two different 4 horned sheep that day that were no bigger then a good sized whitetail. We also shot pigs that day so id guess between the two of us there was 8-10 shots fired each. A little more then the aveage hunt and some fired very quickly at wounded animals on the run threw the swamp. Learned one good lesson that day. Those hollow points and soft points may be good for deer in a 44 but there not the ticket for putting down big animals in the 500s. An expanded 500 is a pretty big parachute.

I had the same problem with some bullets several years ago on 2 to 3 years old Buffalo (not over 1,000 lbs). No bullet got over 6" of penetration. The smack from impct was extremely loud, but ineffective without proper penetration. This faliure to penetrate is what led to the 525 grain load in the 500 Linebaugh. Our first thoughts and conclusion was that the bullets were too light (435 grains), but our assumption was proven wrong on farther testing. The bullets were turning early and as many allready know when a bullet turns, penetration suffers.
I have never found a jacketed bullet suitable for LARGE game, unlees you consider the Punch Bullet as a Jacketed...

[Lloyd Smale]

what bullet was that and why was it turning. Ive had some pretty good luck with penetration on game and in testing with the 440 lfnbp and 450 lfngc ballisticast bullets and a custom 450 swc that ballistic cast made for me. I rarely go bigger then the 450s. I have a 480 lfngc and a 505 wfngc but have never seen the other bullets to be lacking when cast out of an appropriate alloy. i have seen 400s fail to penetrate well though in the .500s.
I had the same problem with some bullets several years ago on 2 to 3 years old Buffalo (not over 1,000 lbs). No bullet got over 6" of penetration. The smack from impct was extremely loud, but ineffective without proper penetration. This faliure to penetrate is what led to the 525 grain load in the 500 Linebaugh. Our first thoughts and conclusion was that the bullets were too light (435 grains), but our assumption was proven wrong on farther testing. The bullets were turning early and as many allready know when a bullet turns, penetration suffers.
I have never found a jacketed bullet suitable for LARGE game, unlees you consider the Punch Bullet as a Jacketed...

[S.B.]

I own a Redhawk and a S&W Mountain Gun plus a 629-4 Classic all stainless for the weather endurance and have a Lee 430-310-RF mold coming to work up a heavy load for them. Prefer the Mountain Gun?

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/redhawk.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/18410Herrett_s_4.jpg



http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/1841044.jpg