LEE .401-175 mold mods

[dubber123]

After avoiding owning a .40 S&W handgun for years, I now have one.. :) I actually like the darn thing. The only boolits I could borrow came from the LEE .401-175 TC mold. They actually shoot very well. I do however have to have my own mold, and I do not like bevel based boolits. Does anyone have experience with this pariticular LEE design once the bevel has been removed? I only expect to gain a grain or two of weight, I am more curious as to what happened to your accuracy.
Thanks.

[tazman]

Just out of curiosity, why do you dislike bevel base boolits, particularly when they shoot well?

[dubber123]

Just out of curiosity, why do you dislike bevel base boolits, particularly when they shoot well?

Mostly due to the lube that accumulates there when using a lubrisizer. I also have had generally better accuracy from a plain based boolit Vs. a bevel base. I have a mold on the way, I'm sure it will shoot worse after I remove the bevel, that is just my luck. Good thing it's only $20 to find out. :)

[tazman]

I have been using that boolit with excellent results in my 40 S&W. I don't use a lubrisizer so I don't have the issue you describe.
I either tumble lube with White Label X-Lox or powder coat. Both work fine in my gun.
I understand that people don't like the mess from tumble lubing or the extra steps to powder coat. I also understand your problem with the lube buildup at the base of the boolit with the lubrisizer. I have had the same issue.
I have been told the Star lubrisizers can be adjusted to fill just the groove in that boolit. I have no experience with one yet.
I know of a couple of people who have removed the bevel base from a number of different Lee boolit molds with no ill effect on accuracy. In at least one case the man said it improved the accuracy significantly.
It sounds like a worthwhile experiment. Please keep us posted on your results.

[dubber123]

Will do, the mold should be in this week. I just ordered a 2 cavity, as thats the cheapest to experiment with, and I can still make more boolits than I need with one. I also want to see what the new style LEE 2 cavity molds look like. I've been getting about 3" 25 yard groups with the bevel based ones, so I have a vague base line.

[Catshooter]

dubber,

I too greatly dislike a bevel based boolit.

I have a six holer of the of the 401-175 that me and a new blade in my razor knife performed a bevel base-ecotmy toot sweet. I don't think the boolits gained any weight although I didn't cast with it prior to surgery (why would I?).

Mould works well.


Cat

[NavyVet1959]

Just curious, but are the bevel base bullets less likely to shave lead when you are seating them in the brass? I either tumble lube with alox + JPW or I powdercoat, so I've not experience the mess that supposedly happens with a lubrisizer. When I was just lubing with straight alox or alox + mineral spirits, I would often add a dusting of talc in the storage bag of bullets the next day.

[dubber123]

Just curious, but are the bevel base bullets less likely to shave lead when you are seating them in the brass? I either tumble lube with alox + JPW or I powdercoat, so I've not experience the mess that supposedly happens with a lubrisizer. When I was just lubing with straight alox or alox + mineral spirits, I would often add a dusting of talc in the storage bag of bullets the next day.


If the cases have a decent flare to them before seating neither should shave any lead at all, some people don't flare enough, and it's pretty easy to wreck a cast boolit while seating. If it's not flared enough, either would shave lead. The bevel base does make them a little easier to set in the cases for those of us with fat fingeritis.

Another reason I prefer a flat base is so I can "bump square" them in the lubrisizer. You basically give them a good "smoosh" on the bottom of your sizer stroke. The pin in the sizer die will square the base of the boolits perpendicular to the sides, and this can't be done to any effect on a bevel base design. It really makes a difference in accuracy if your mold is cut out of square. I started doing it when Veral Smith of LBT molds suggested it. You'd be surprised how often it's an issue. The ring the size die pin imprints on the perimeter of your boolits base won't be even all the way around the base if your mold is machined slightly off. I've seen it happen on a good many molds.

[NavyVet1959]

If the cases have a decent flare to them before seating neither should shave any lead at all, some people don't flare enough, and it's pretty easy to wreck a cast boolit while seating. If it's not flared enough, either would shave lead. The bevel base does make them a little easier to set in the cases for those of us with fat fingeritis.

Actually, I don't think I've ever paid enough attention to my molds to even notice if they had flared bases. :) Now I'm going to have to go check. I suspect that the tumble lube ones don't have flared bases, but I do have a couple of molds that are not tumble lube. I tried looking at the photos of the molds and bullets on the Midway site, but I couldn't tell which might be beveled or not. I guess I'll have to physically look at my actual molds with a magnifying glass just for curiosity's sake. I haven't noticed any of the bullets being more likely to shave lead or not.

[dubber123]

Actually, I don't think I've ever paid enough attention to my molds to even notice if they had flared bases. :) Now I'm going to have to go check. I suspect that the tumble lube ones don't have flared bases, but I do have a couple of molds that are not tumble lube. I tried looking at the photos of the molds and bullets on the Midway site, but I couldn't tell which might be beveled or not. I guess I'll have to physically look at my actual molds with a magnifying glass just for curiosity's sake. I haven't noticed any of the bullets being more likely to shave lead or not.

I was talking about flaring the brass casings, a necessary step for reloading lead boolits. If you are not flaring the cases, it is impossible to seat a boolit without shaving. Most pistol caliber reloading dies include one that performs this function, while most rifle caliber dies do not, necessitating a seperate flare die of some kind. I say all this assuming you aren't just pulling my leg.. :)

[NavyVet1959]

I was talking about flaring the brass casings, a necessary step for reloading lead boolits. If you are not flaring the cases, it is impossible to seat a boolit without shaving. Most pistol caliber reloading dies include one that performs this function, while most rifle caliber dies do not, necessitating a seperate flare die of some kind. I say all this assuming you aren't just pulling my leg.. :)

I use the Lee dies and the powder through expander die flares the cases when I'm using my turret or single stage press. When I'm using my Dillon, there is a Dillon expander in the powder measure that does the same thing. I expand as much as I can and still be able to get it in the next die without it starting to hang / close it back up immediately up contact with the die. When I was using the Lee taper crimp / seating die to do both operations, I would sometimes get a ring / sliver of lead afterwards, but when I switched to doing the seating and crimping in two separate stages, that did not happen. Of course, it seemed to happen more often when I was trying to lead one of the supposedly 0.358" as cast bullets in a 9mm casing. Resizing them to 0.356" makes a big difference though.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-358-105-swc-hf-flat-black-320w.jpg

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/2015-09-06--loaded-pc-bullet-lee-358-105-swc.jpg

[dubber123]

It sounds like you have it under control.. :) I too like seating and crimping in seperate steps. Is that a finished cartridge, or one to just show me the flare? I ask, because I don't see too much of a flare, and it looks seated out pretty far to chamber in most autos.

[NavyVet1959]

It sounds like you have it under control.. :) I too like seating and crimping in seperate steps. Is that a finished cartridge, or one to just show me the flare? I ask, because I don't see too much of a flare, and it looks seated out pretty far to chamber in most autos.

The bullets are cast using the Lee 358-105-SWC mold. The first photo is after 2 rounds of ASBB tumble powder coating with Harbor Freight flat black powder (probably the worst powder for the tumble ASBB method). The coated bullets are just dumped on a piece of stainless steel window screen mesh and baked for 20 minutes at 400F, so there is a chance for more bald spots on the sides than if I took a pair of forceps and placed each one on a tray base down. The second photo is a loaded round after the bullets have been resized to 0.356" (using cable lube as a lubricant and using the Lee sizing die). In this photo, the Lee Factory Crimp Die has already been used to knock the flare back down. This round is less than the SAAMI max OAL for 9x19, but it will not fully chamber in my CZ-75B Compact. To load in the CZ, I have to reduce the OAL to the point where only a slight about of the shoulder of the wadcutter is visible. On the other hand, this length loads without an issue in my Taurus PT92 (Beretta 92). The CZ seems to have better luck loading the Lee TL356-124-TC. I have 2 more 9x19 chambered handguns, but I have not tried this in them. I would not be surprised to find that trying to find one loading that will work for all 4 handguns with this bullet might be an exercise in futility and I might just end up with different ones for each handgun.

[depoloni]

It's funny... I got into powdercoating initially thanks to my distaste for cleaning the lube off of bevel-base boolits when using my Lyman 450 or LAM-2 lube-sizers. I know you can block off the lowest hole necessary with a bit of lead shot, etc. - like I believe they do with the star lubesizers... don't own one. Yet.

But I hate plugging holes in sizing dies that I have to un-plug soon after. Admittedly, its probably a flaw in my casting style but I like to jump around a bunch when I get the opportunity to cast, thus as soon as I plugged "that hole" in my Lyman lubesize die to avoid lubing onto the bevel base of a Lee 452-200-SWC I'd quickly find I needed to pull everything and UN-plug it the next day when I switched to a batch of 45-230-RNs [smilie=b:

If it weren't for the switch to PC for bevel-base pistol boolit designs I own, I'd be seriously considering milling out the bevel-bases myself :drinks:

[dubber123]

NavyVet1959, I know I couldn't get your loaded round into any of my 9mm's with that much boolit outside the case, the throats are all too short. In fact I have one getting sent off soon to DougGuy to be throated a bit. I do manage to shoot .358" to .359" boolits in mine, I just have to watch how much full diameter boolit is in front of the case mouth. The little .40 I just got has a similar issue, but not as bad.

[dubber123]

Finally got my mold, I sprung a whole $20.99 for a 2 cavity, as I intended on modifying it. This was the first "new" style LEE 2 cavity, and I am pretty darn impressed. I think I counted 20 individual parts, plus machining, all for less than $21, handles included. Thats the good part. The bad part was a little out of round. A quick lapping with 320 grit, and it is within .001", not bad at all. It did drop well before lapping. Now that I have it casting well, I get to screw it up removing the bevel base :)

[tazman]

Keep us posted on how it works out for you.

[gwpercle]

I'm not a fan of "bevel based" boolits either but the bevel Lee uses on it's 2 cavity moulds are very slight. They look more pronounced in the catalog. I'm sitting here looking at the catalog and the boolits that I cast with the mould and actually the bevel is hardly there, more like a rounded edge.
I've cast, sized with lube and loaded several hundred with no problem....in fact I like the small bevel it helps in loading and not really beveled that much at all. Get the 2 cavity mould and try it, you will more than likely find it to be just fine.
Bullet lube doesn't get into/onto the base wile lube-sizing, that's how small the bevel is.
Gary

[typz2slo]

I used a machinist deburing tool and gently removed the bevel from my mold cavities and it worked pretty good if you take your time and remove just a little at a time. I started powder coating so picked up a second mold and left the bevel base in that one.

[popper]

I used an xacto knife to remove the bevel on mine. My thinking it would become easier to cull bad bases. I didn't remove the BB from the TL mould, both are worn out now but I could never tell the difference in accuracy. Several years ago I did a 'bad' base test in 40. Eye opening to say the least. The Lee sprue plate wasn't the best for making square bases either - but my tests didn't indicate that to be as big a problem.

[dubber123]

Well, my mold is now bevel free. It still casts nicely, and makes nice sharp bases. I got in exactly 1 group after work today, and based on that single group, it shoots...Exactly the same as before. :) I am happier with the flat base, and after I try it again a few more times off a better rest, I will know more.

[tazman]

Please keep us posted.

[harley45]

Yes please keep us updated I have this mold also and would like to modiy it!

[taco650]

How did you modify your mold?

[dubber123]

How did you modify your mold?

Well, I intended to turn a tool out on the lathe that would center off the bottom of the lube grooves and would mill out the bevel. I got impatient, and ended up using a new razor blade and doing it by hand. They look really good, and drop well from the mold. It was a minor amount of metal to remove, but maybe I got lucky.

[rsrocket1]

Congratulations on your new mold. You're going to regret buying it.

By that I mean once you start shooting and having fun with 40 S&W your're going to want to cast more and more bullets and the 6 cavity mold with a bottom pour spout is the cat's meow. I now powder coat the 401-175-TC's then size them and have to do nothing more than run a single Hoppe's No9 dampened patch through to clean the soot out of the barrel after a 200-400 shot session (my weekly habit lately).

This is about 2 hour's casting including a break to refill the pot.

[Catshooter]

I did it the same way dubber did. A new blade in the razor knife.


Cat

[dubber123]

I did it the same way dubber did. A new blade in the razor knife.


Cat

And you are where I got the idea from ;) I wouldn't tear into a new LBT with a razor blade, but it did work well this time. Helps to be not so ham handed too.