Which mould is better?

[OneShotNeeded]

Quick question for everybody out there. I'm pretty new to the "casting" world however have been reloading for several years. I was wondering if anyone out there would be able to tell me or lead me in the right direction on a few questions.

1) What molds would be good dual purpose moulds for a 30-06 / 308 with a grain weight between 150gn - 170gr?

2) Anybody have a good accuracy loads for the above mentioned?

Thanks for any help in this.

[1Shirt]

For a newbe, I would suggest Lyman 311291 (about 170 gr.), and the 150 Lee Flat Nose. Both are Gas Checks, and both shoot well and accurate in my 308's, and 06.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[OneShotNeeded]

1 Shirt

What have you had the best success with in the 06 - 308 in the way of powders and primers. Right now I'm using 168gr Sierra Match King Hp's backed with varget and federal match primers. I've reloaded pistol for a while with cast bullets and am trying to figure out the rife side of this wonderful sport.

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with 1shirt, both moulds suggested are good ones to start with and will give satisfactory results. If both your rifles have 10" twists then use 4895 with a dacron filler (26-30 gr will find you happiness) with the 311291. With the 30-150-FN use either 2400 or 4227 (16-22 gr of either). The suggest loads are for the .308 and can be increased slightly for the '06. Keep velocities under 1900 fps for best accuracy in these 10" twist barrels.

If the .308 has a 12" twist then 4895 will do nicely for both bullets. Good accuracy can be had up through 2300 fps with harder alloyed bullets.

If you just want medium velocity loads 1500-1800 fps then 2400 or 4227 will work for both cartridges and both bullets when WW+ 2-3% tin alloy is used. Straight WW alloy can be used but the tin helps the bullets fill out better in the mould and hardens them a little.

Larry Gibson

Caveat; If you just want one mould and both rifles have the 10" twist then the 311299 is a good choice. This heavier bullet will work well with 4895 in both rifles. Might even work well with Varget.

[pdawg_shooter]

I like the Lyman 311446. A 152gr Lovern design.

[Maven]

OSN, There are several things you need to do before you select a particular mold and/or bullet design, the first is removing all of the Cu fouling from your bores and second, slugging them to determine what diameter bullets (actually 0.001" - 0.002" larger than the greater dimension on the slug) you'll need. You then have to see whether a two-diameter or bore riding bullet is a better choice for your bores than a single diameter Loverin (mostly body with a very short nose). The problem with the Lyman #311291 and the Lee previously mentioned is that the nose portion (They are bore riders) is often too small for the standard .30-06 & .308Win. bores, which means that accuracy may be less than stellar. Your guns, however, may be an exception, but you won't know until you purchase the mold and test it. Loverin designs, on the other hand, are not so fussy and generally shoot very well once you determine the right dimension to size them to. I have 3 suggestions for you: Lyman #311466 (162gr.), Ly. #311467 (177gr.) or Saeco #315 (175gr., Loverin body + truncated cone flat nose). Powder choices for these would be 21-22gr. AA 5744; 23-24gr. H/IMR 4198; 28-29gr. IMR 3031 in the .30-06 with LR standard primers. Reduce the charge by one or two grains for the .308Win.

[OneShotNeeded]

Thanks for all the info. Looks like I'm going to be having some alone time with my 06 this weekend.

One other thing, with a cast rifle bullet would it be better to have it a bit softer than lets say #2 casting alloy, or would the old tried and true melted wheel weights mixed with some soft lead suffice. The reason I'm asking is I've only been casting for pistols and to me the 3-6 inch trip doesn't matter to me weather they are straight wheel weights, or softer as long as they go boom and punch paper. Yes I do get some leading in my barrel but they seem to be right at or just over by a Grain. Does anyone have any other thoughts, or should I revise my thinking?

[Char-Gar]

For your needs and current production molds, I would stear you to Lyman 311291 or RCBS 165 SIL. I have not been happy with Lee molds.

[1Shirt]

For what ever it is worth, Larry Gibson and I think very much alike on recommendations. You also may want to consider slugging your bbls, and working with best dia blts for your rifles. Mine prefer .311, and Lars Red Lube.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[HORNET]

Either straight wheelweights or Lyman #2 equivalent will work fine. You usually need a little stiffer alloy for rifle boolits due to increased sectional density, higher velocities, and a longer pressure pulse. Lots of info on alloys around here.

[Newtire]

I had the same luck with the 311291 with the bore riding part being too small until I "Beagled" it. The boolit that outshoots all the moulds I have in my .30-06's is the RCBS 165 silhouette. Another surprise was the Saeco #316. Almost forgot the RCBS 130 gr. spire point gascheck design.

With the RCBS 165 sil., somewhere around 28-31 gr. RX-7

Saeco #316:
Load #1=11.5 gr. Unique (plinker)
Load #2=28.5 gr. RX-7 (1-1 1/2" @ 100 yds.)

RCBS 130 gr. Spire Point:
Load #1=9.0gr. Red Dot plinker yet 1-1/2 to 2" acc @ 100 yds.
Load #2=17.5 gr. SR 4759

If you are lucky enough to have a Group buy 311407:
23 gr. SR 4759.
25 gr. AA 1680

[OneShotNeeded]

Excellent info. I didn't think there were this many possibilities out there. Looks like I'll be getting a few different moulds and seeing which work better for my particular application. I do have a LYMAN 311314 I believe it's a pointed bullet roughly 169gn. With WW it's exactly 174gn. Only there is no loading data for that particular bullet from Lyman. In fact they don't even list an application for that round. Anybody have any experience with this particular mould?

On a slightly different note I keep reading about using old aluminum cans for gas checks and seeing "gas check makers" for sale. Is this something worth pursuing? If so can I make these at home with basic tools or is this some special order thing that might or might not work? It seems to me that a can is much thinner than a copper check although I haven't "miked" one yet.

[Newtire]

I have the 311313 boolit and it's a 169 gr. pointed design. Alot of guys on here have used that so do a search. I loaded that one years ago with 11 grains of Herco in .30-06. 13 grains started spreading groups and pressure goes up quickly with those shotgun/pistol powders.

A boolit with a pointy nose slumps with too much pressure so maybe a blunter ddesign would be better.

Regular gas checks were all I ever had luck with. I even tried the "Wilks check" method using a Roper metal hole puncher to punch out the centers of gas checks & cast them into the boolit. By the time you add up the price these days, you could buy jacketted. They weren't much improvement.

I'm sure you could pick up one of the more conventional designs for a little more versatility but that pointy one you have can be made to shoot within it's limits.

This is a fun, if not addicting, activity for me I know so hope you have fun with it.

[OneShotNeeded]

I do appreciate all the feedback I'm getting and definately have some legwork to do before I get my "final product." It just surprises me that there is no mention of this particular mould being used for a standard 30cal rifle. I've even gone back into Lyman manuals from the 70's to see what they have listed and nothing is listed for this but they sold the mould and still do.

[HORNET]

OneShot,
Do you mean perhaps the 311413? The semi-infamous Squib boolit? If so, there's a few people on here that play with it. It seems to work fairly good at low-moderate speeds but goes downhill fast at higher velocities. I don't think they've made it for quite a while.

[OneShotNeeded]

That might be the one. Unfortunately It's not in front of me at the moment I may have gotten the # wrong. Squib? Sorry not familliar with that term.

[jahela]

... If both your rifles have 10" twists then use 4895 with a dacron filler (26-30 gr will find you happiness) with the 311291. ...
Keep velocities under 1900 fps for best accuracy in these 10" twist barrels.

If the .308 has a 12" twist then 4895 will do nicely for both bullets. Good accuracy can be had up through 2300 fps with harder alloyed bullets.

Caveat; If you just want one mould and both rifles have the 10" twist then the 311299 is a good choice. This heavier bullet will work well with 4895 in both rifles.

Larry,

I'm also new in casting bullets for "grown up" rifle-loads. My .308-rifle has a 10" twist and I ordered the 311679.
I want to push them to about 2300 fps. Possible?

Available powders are VV N133 (burning rate alike 4895) or slower N140.
Which one would be better?

I once learned, that for faster twist heavier bullets give better accuracy. Is this also true for cast boolits?

Dirk

[OneShotNeeded]

Correction on the mould # it's a 311413 sorry for the confusion but still good info.

[floodgate]

OneShotNeeded:

It's "SQUIBB", with two B's - named after one Sam Squibb, a prominent target shooter from the '20's. Search "Squibb" and you should find a lot of discussion on him and his bullet design.

Floodgate

[cbrick]

OneShot, welcome to Castboolits.

I am going to complicate your quest a bit and add a few more moulds for you to consider. The RCBS 180 gr SPGC boolit cast of WW+ tin and air cooled @ 11 BHN. 1800 fps and about 2 inch groups at 150 meters with 19.0 gr SR4759 from my 10 inch twist 308.

RCBS 180 gr. Excellent shooter, fits my bore dia., notice the engraving marks on the ogive.

http://www.lasc.us/RCBS%2030%20Cal%20180%20gr-1.JPG

The previously mentioned SAECO #316 left and it's PB cousin #630 on the right.

http://www.lasc.us/SAECO31630cal150gr-99.jpg http://www.lasc.us/SAECO630-30Cal140gr-99.jpg


On the lighter side and also shoots well from my 308 is SAECO #311 @ 160 gr.

http://www.lasc.us/SAECO311-30Cal.jpg

And for a hunting bullet because of it's meplat and shorter nose and longer bearing surface is SAECO #307.

http://www.lasc.us/DSCN1521-2.JPG

The 5 lube groove SAECO #315 mentioned above.

http://www.lasc.us/SAECO315175grTCGC-99.JPG

Hope this helps you out some.

Rick

[OneShotNeeded]

Ok. So let me see if I get this straight. First I need to see what my barrel Dia. is by swagging it, find a mould manufacturer that has the weight range I'm looking for, while trying to find a bullet that has a larger bearing surface (which does make sense)in that range then basically like loading a jacketed bullet work up a manageable load keeping twist rate in mind. :confused:

And of course referring back here on a routine basis:mrgreen:

Now I'm guessing that the number of lube rings have something to do with this whole idea right?
Sorry if I seem a bit lost but this really is helping. Thanks everyone.