How hard is too hard for 45 acp?

[will52100]

I've got a bunch of pure lead and some tin. For my normal 45 colt and black powder rifle rounds I mix 20-1 lead tin. For the front stuffers I use the pure lead. I also have about 400 pounds of WW and scrap lead that is pretty hard.

I'd like to use up some of the scrap lead, some of the straight scrap comes out at about 18 brinell. My 20-1 comes out at 10 brinell. I know my SAA's and leaver guns love the 20-1, and I'd imagine the 1911's would as well. My basic load is a 230 grain bullet, 5.6 grains Unique with about 850 fps. Just a hair faster than my smokless load for 45 colt, but about the same for the black powder load.

Also these are lubed with a star sizer, though I've tumble lubed in the past.

Suggestions?

Thanks.

[RobS]

As long as the boolit starts it's why in the barrel larger than the groove diameter (.001-.00@) you should be just fine. I've actually had better accuracy with some boolit designs that are 18-20 BHN especially if there is shallow rifling.

[Ausglock]

I run 230gn RN in hardball alloy (16BHN) coated with Hitech coating in Para GI Expert 1911.
No issues.

[dubber123]

I've run everything from 8 Bhn, (50/50 WW-Pb), to heat treated 22+ Bhn boolits in .45 ACP. All shot well, and without leading. My loads, like yours run right at 850 fps. Fitment and decent lube are more important in this caliber than alloy in my experience. I'd use whatever alloy stretched my lead supply the farthest.

[opos]

I've loaded 45 Colt and 44 Special (along with lots of other stuff) for a long time with BHn 12 projectiles...have not loaded any semi automatic but am just starting after all these years...going to load 45acp with the same lrnfp "cowboy" bullet I've used for years in the Colt loads..did a bit of research and am told that the bullet should work just fine in my CZ 97 if I don't push it too hard...I'd thought a harder lead would have been a bit better but am told by several folks I've come to trust that the 12Bhn works just fine for them in similar barrel dimension pistols....I'm looking at about 800 fps target depending on how things work out...planning to use Unique or Universal or maybe even some Trail Boss...the diameter of the projectiles is .452 so we'll see how she goes...these have "blue crayola" lube but when they are used up I'm going to a coated one of the same dimension that Missouri sells..I can't cast due to lung issues but still love to shoot cast.

[Love Life]

I've loaded from pure lead to quenched lino. I get a little leading in the throat with pure if I run them to hard with a hard lube. I carry 230 gr ball cast of 40:1 and lubed with speed green for my personal defense loads.

[Bigslug]

I ran my LBT 230LFN experiment with water-dropped wheelweight at about 23 BHN. The guns loved 'em. The Veral Smith school of thought is that at all but the slowest speeds, so long as the bullet fits correctly harder is better from an accuracy standpoint, as bases stay square and noses don't slump.

But unless you're trying for some specific effect (i.e. expansion, super-repeatable match-level accuracy, etc...), you can pretty much use the .45ACP as your oddball alloy "garbage dispoal". If the bullet fits decently, a low pressure system like the 1911 will not care much. Save the "pure" alloys for the applications that do.

[sparky45]

I'm presently running PC'd 230gr TC with a BHN of 8-10. I also cast 230gr ball that I run with BLL in the same BHN. No Leading to date but I don't push them very hard with my Alliant Pwds. I really like using Red, Green Dot pwds. I've also noticed that the barrel(s) look almost clean after using these combinations. Usually only a bit of burnt pwd and a run through with a bore snake and they're clean.

[cheese1566]

I run straight basic air cooled clip on wheel weights with nothing added (soft stick on weights sorted out). I run that lead for everything I load.

I run them through a Lee 230tc or MP 200 hp molds, then through my star sizer at .452 with magma hard lube. I use a mild plinker load of WW231 in a Norinco 1911 and brother in law's Glock with no issues.

[Ed_Shot]

I use soft lead (won't say pure) w/2% tin for my NOE 453-210-HP from one Lee pot and air-cooled hard-ball for my Lyman 452374 and 452630 from another pot that I use for everything. Both alloys perform perfectly in my 45's.

[John Boy]

Bullet BHN / "Minimum" Chamber Pressure For Lead Alloys (PSI)

The formula (from the pages of HandLoader Magazine) to determine at what pressure an alloy of given BHN will obturate the base of the bullet and seal the bore. If the bullet is too hard to obturate, gas cutting usually occurs on the base band on the non-driving side of the rifling and barrel leading is likely. Simply multiply the alloy BHN by 1,422.


Example: Alloy BHN of 12 multiplied by 1422 = 17,064. An alloy of 12 BHN should be used with a load that develops a "minimum" of 17,000 psi. Need more info on minimum / maximum alloy BHN? These Glen E. Fryxell articles explain alloy BHN in easy to understand language.
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

45 ACP has a maximum pressure of 21,000 psi. So determine your load psi from vendor loading tables and do the calculation for harness

[will52100]

Thanks, that sets my mind at ease somewhat. For defense/cary I use factory ammo. For practice and killing armadillo's and tin cans I use cast.

[bangerjim]

Same here. Comm ammo for SD.....if ever needed!

I shoot ~10-12Bhn + PC in everything subsonic, including all my 45ACP and 45LC loads. Using PC allows you to shoot much softer lead. Switch to PC and forget about worrying about hardness in most cases.

You are not gaining hardly any hardness from that Sn. Add Sb if you want to crank up the hardness and save the expensive Sn and limit to no more than 2% for mold fill-out.

[runfiverun]

while your at the lAHSC site I'd recommend reading 'is your bullet soft enough'
it contradicts Richard lee's retarded theory err regurgitation of flow characteristics of lead under pressure but not contained.

Richard Lee's thingy says the 22lr needs an 18 bhn boolit to shoot properly.

[williamwaco]

I like 8 to 12 BNH for revolvers AND pistols.

Most of my .45 ACP bullets are straight clip on wheel weights.about 12 BNH. ( Because it is less work. The .45 doesn't care.)

[Char-Gar]

I have a fair amount of experience with the 45 ACP round in the 1911 pistol that goes back to 1961. The common thinking in that day, even espoused by no less than Elmer Keith was that bullets for said pistol need to be hard to take and hold the shallow rifling in the barrel. This was accepted as holy writ.

Somewhere around 1964 or 65 Speer came out with their soft swaged bullets that had the general shape and weight of the famous Hensley and Gibbs No. 68. They were sold for a very low price. I picked up a box and loaded them up for my Colt Gold Cup, expecting bad accuracy and a lead filled barrel due to the butter softness of the bullet. What I got was excellent accuracy and no leading to speak of.

That caused me to scratch my head, and ponder whether the common mantra that such pistols needed hard bullets was indeed holy writ. I bought a thousand of the swaged Speer, and then a thousand more and so on. At the price, it was not worth my time to cast my own being a full time student in Law School.

As the years rolled by, I have learned that the 1911 barrel is very tolerant of a wide variety of bullet tempers from soft swaged to cast Linotype with equal results. Revolvers are a different breed of cats, with their cylinder throats, barrel/cylinder gap and forcing cones. Sixguns are far less tolerant of bullet temper than autopistols.

[Love Life]

I find great accuracy with the Hornady swaged SWC.

[will52100]

Thanks, I've settled on using 14 bnh, that lets me use a good bit of my scrap lead without getting into my store bought stuff.

[twc1964]

I use 10.5bhn range scrap for all my pistol loads. Heck, i even shoot the lee 358-158rf sized to .359 and pc'd in 357 mag at 1344fps and no probs at all.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup me too. My competition bullets for my 45acps are usualy cast out of lineotype. Its too expensive for practice but my 1911s allways preferred as hard of a bullet as I could afford to cast.
As long as the boolit starts it's why in the barrel larger than the groove diameter (.001-.00@) you should be just fine. I've actually had better accuracy with some boolit designs that are 18-20 BHN especially if there is shallow rifling.