Still copper plating.

[MGnoob]

I'm still copper plating. Here is a photo of 14 8.5lb bags of .223. Aprox. 13,800 projectiles. http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/MGnoob/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150905_012909_zpsjy8qnrgj.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

I have a pile of .45 and 9mm i'm going to plate over the weekend..
I'm trying to stock up and have some to send some to M-A systems so I can get a collator with the apropiate plates for each caliber.
I'm finally going to automate my casting machine and Finnish this pneumatic Sizer i've been stalling on.

[Ausglock]

Sweet.
What is your process and machinery??

[MGnoob]

This is my original thread, it's long but explains the process and has a lot of photos.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236015-Plating-better-easier-than-coating

[KenH]

MGnoob - you've done some GOOD work there. I read thru that long thread you linked to. LOTS of good info there. Tell me, would a DC welder work for the current source? Open circuit tends to run 40 to 50 VDC or so........ I don't do enough bullets to even think of copper plating other than to "play with". Much like I did with powder coating - that works like a champ!

Ken H>

[MGnoob]

It would depend on the amperage of the unit and the ability to limit your voltage to 8v or less. also depending on your amperage it could take a long time to plate or be limited to a single handful of projectiles.

It takes me 1 hour @80a (7v) followed by 2.5 hours @40 amps (2-3v) for each 8.5lb load.
You won't achieve a smooth shiny Finnish till 3v or below.
But if you only plate at 3v/low amps it takes a long time and may effect the durability of the plating

In 3 hours i'll post a photo of the first batch of .45

[KenH]

Thanks for the info - the welder has about 250 amps, but the voltage is waaay to high. I wasn't sure if the voltage could be increased to 14 vdc, or even to 40 volts. I guess now I'll hold off on copper plating for a while. Sure is fun to think about it.

Ken H>

[MGnoob]

I still haven't mastered the .45. These came out great but too thick for my sizer. http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/MGnoob/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150905_174434_zpsq6rmtcfj.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Plating came out .015" thick. (Dia.) Which is just to thick to fit in the throat of my sizing die
I did size a couple. Plus side is I have to either do more at once or plate for less time.

[Idz]

MGnoob
why don't you size down the bare lead before you plate them? then the final sizing only has to be .001 or so.

[MGnoob]

It would make more sense to just cast them undersized.. but sets of 4 Autocast molds aren't cheap and I wanted to use an already proven design. Also my current molds can be used traditional lube, PC, or copper plated. I Could also easily sell my molds if I had to, where as if they custom they'd be harder to sell.

I oviously could size them in two steps. But from scrap to finnish projectile and processing brass and loading.never mind roll sizing and anealing. I can't add 1 more step. When I Finnish the pneumatic sizer I may have increased sizing capacity.

[Idz]

its easy and cheap to bore out a piece of threaded rod to make a sizing die for sizing lead.

[MGnoob]

its easy and cheap to bore out a piece of threaded rod to make a sizing die for sizing lead.
Please elaborate.. all of my punches are basically a bolt with the head cut off and turned to size. And the dies are just standard sizing dies or shorty dies so the projectile goes through in one push no lube capacity..

How would a threaded sizing die be utilized? When I set up my air pneumatic sizer it's going to utilize standard dies and have a shuttle system similar to the star setup.

[MGnoob]

2nd batch is perfect. http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/MGnoob/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150905_200334_zpsmqj6dwpy.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

[KenH]

.015" thick copper plating? Using undersized cast bullets would almost give you jacketed bullets! Impressive.

Ken H>

[Idz]

For homemade sizing dies I purchased a length of 7/8-14 threaded rod from ENCO (www.useenco.com). Chuck it in the lathe and drill and/or bore it out to desired size, chamfer an entrance hole, and polish it with 600 grit sandpaper. For lead slugs it doesn't need to be hardened. Often a punch from a commercial sizing set is close enough in size to be used otherwise one can be made.

[MGnoob]

I'll have to give that a try when working on my sizer. I wouldn't mind sizing twice once I am automated.As it stands now sizing 10,000+ projectiles once by hand is quite the project.the thought of doing it twice makes my finger and arm hurt .

I'm thinking about putting the one batch of .45 that's too thick back into the plating tank and plating the the .005" extra back to the anode from the projectile. I'be never done this before.the cathodes have become so large in the plating drum i'll either have to cut them off or plate them back to the copper anodes. I'll post a picture so you guys can visualize what I am talking about.

Plating so thick is unessisarry especially on pistol projectiles.
I've got 7 more loads of .45 and 4 loads of 9mm. It will be nice to have my boolit stash filled back up.I load and shoot them quickly.


I'll post a photo of the reloading bench when I Finnish piling up the rest of my boolits.

Edit.
New cathodes
http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/MGnoob/media/GEDV0117_zpsb557f63f.jpg.html?sort=3&o=89

Used cathode
http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/MGnoob/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150908_004147_zps7lzdhrga.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

[MGnoob]

13 8.5lb bags of .45 aprox 3350 projectiles.
If you look close in the back left you can see a couple bags that are tarnished. It happens if they don'the dry quickly."The boss" would get mad if I used the good towels. I use the citric acid (lem-shine) quick Soak and tumble to shine them up like 1-3 min.

I wanted to make a pyrimid with the 9mm on top.. going to have to clear the bench off, the reloading room is a mess.
http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/MGnoob/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150907_224902_zps6dr5vzt3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

[MGnoob]

And finally 4 7.5lb bags of 9mm approx 1700 projectiles.

The .45 aren't tarnished it's just the photo
http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/MGnoob/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150908_213022_zpsssnhv26a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Melting jumper cable
http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/MGnoob/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150908_190053_zpsawnvqt94.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

[Tazza]

That is awesome, i have a mate that has been trying to do this for a while, without success. For pistol projectiles, the polymer coating i use works just fine, the copper jacket would be ideal for when they are pushed a little faster.

Our range is a bit strange with copper coatings, some say it's a jacket, even if it's only a few thou thick. The original reasoning was no FMJ to be shot at steel, which is fair enough as it holds it's mass, but the thin copper coating just falls apart when it strikes steel, or the ground.

[MGnoob]

I shoot the .223 2800 FPS at ar500.At 100 yards it does no damage, at 50 feet it just barely leaves a mark.the projectiIes just shatter.
No safety issue with ricochets or spatter
I've never heard of a handgun range that bans fmj.

I'm not sure there's an advantate to plating over coating..some people on here results with pc are really good,i just found the plating runs better in the bullet feeders and collators than my epoxy coated projectiles ever seem too..i'd bet pc with a gun would also work.

[Tazza]

Sadly over here in .au they are a bit fussy, at least we still have our guns, or at least some of them.

That is pretty good performance out of a cast projectile.

[MGnoob]

I had really worked hard to achieve accuracy with this load,i like to think it was 2" to 4" groups at 100 yards.by the time i got out to a range with 230 yards. I was getting lazy, using too soft of an alloy, exceeding max powercharge trying to get a perticular firearm to cycle.
It was a larger batch of like 5000 rds, accuracy was dissapointing to say the least.

Most of my shooting has been iron sights and full auto at close range..so accuracy isn't in high demand...
I do have a very good feeling about this new batch.

[Tazza]

That doesn't seem too bad out of an AR, if it was a bolt action rifle, then sure, i'd expect super tight groups, but then you don't need to make it cycle.

How much do you save by casing them over buying jacketed? over jacketed is so very expensive... Yet i hear they aren't too expensive in the USA

That's the thing, new projectiles generally need a load working up for them, a little more, a little less can get them into the zone. The other thing is, you are learning as you go, give it time and you will know exactly what alloy works best for each calibre.

For me, the polymer stuff i use works great for pistol loads, i don't get a speck of lead in my barrel, no do the people that use my projectiles. The lead i use isn't super hard either, they land where i point them, that is all we care about.

It still amazes me just how "simple" your method of plating is. I have a friend that has been toying with copper coating without success, his way was to wrap each projectile in wire and suspend them in a solution to coat. Your solution was a way i had never considered, yet logical.

[MGnoob]

Barrel or drum plating is the only way too go.
In my state in the US, it's pretty anti gun and do their best to prevent online ammo and component purchases.
So only needing to find powder and primer is priceless.also everything has been sold out for 3 years do to the president and the sandy hook massacre. Last time i check .223 pojectiles where $0.11 plus shipping and tax. And .22lr was $.10-$.12.
My entire loaded .223 catrage only cost $.10-$.11+ my time
It probibIy cost about $.01 for one of my .223 projectiles. It take alot more material for the .45 but i use sailboat keel and range scrap which i don't pay for.i'm almost out of lead though.

[Tazza]

It's getting harder to get components here too, powder is harder to get and primers can be difficult, especially for revolver shooters that have their guns tuned to run federal pistol primers as they are the softest around.

That is some cheap ammo, especially centre fire. .22 ammo is about $0.06 - $0.08 each here, odd that it's cheaper here....

I was lucky enough to get a fair bit of free lead too, i had about 800kg of cleaned range scrap, was a lot of work to clean, but it was free. Sadly it's all gone now too, so i'm into the lino that i had to buy plus old boat keel lead.

[Pablo 5959]

I guess I'm going to have to try this in a small scale.
This thread had started a little after I started PC ing.
the coffee maker and wire hangers in one video kind of turned me off to this.
After reading some 25 pages the palms of my hands are itching.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.crafts.metalworking/u2aUi-0MshQ

Here a discussion on DIY rectifier.
Now to find the chemicals.

[Tazza]

Depending on the voltage required, they are all making a big fuss about smooth DC, why not just hook up a car battery in parallel? I would have thought that would be more than enough to smooth out the power.

[MGnoob]

It would take more than just a car battery... parreleled it would still be 12v which is too high.

There are some battery chargers that would probibly work but for the price you would be better of buying a rectifier.

I would suggest you get at a minimium a 30a unit....50a would leave some room for larger (still small) loads... my 100a is perfect for my size setup approx 11 gallons, a 2:1 anode to cathode ratio. ( approx 2 sq feet anode to 1 sq feet of cathode(the boolits)..

[Pablo 5959]

MGnoob and 45reverse,
you guys have really perked my interest.
If nothing else, I learning a lot about electrical components and how they work, wandering if I can make a rectifier.
I picked up this free book along the way. http://cnqzu.com/library/Anarchy%20Folder/Workshop/Electroplating%20-%20Plating%20Metals.pdf
It sounds like a 12v battery charger may work. I'll at least have to try before moving on to a rectifier.

45reverse, I'll work on something like your setup.
At the vary least this is keeping my mind off this stupid CA 10 day waiting period before I can pick up my new 1911.

[nun2kute]

Come ON Guy's, you-all can't stop there !!! I'll explode !
Pablo, that free book linc died. can you fix it ?

[Gremlin460]

air sizer is the way to go if you are sizing more than a few hundred..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLIehTaANcg

[MGnoob]

air sizer is the way to go if you are sizing more than a few hundred..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLIehTaANcg

Ya having tha would be great. Im still manual sizing. I either have to hook up apiston to my magma or get the pneumatic press i have now running.. its a larger old unit..idk if its air demands will be practical for me.....
Then the other issue of needing a nose down collater setup.
Ive got 10k i need to size now....id shoot even more if i had your setup