OK OK I'll Cave

[Just Duke]

I just found out from my Cowboy Action contact here in Vegas that SASS events include "BLACK POWDER LONG RANGE" Events.
Looks like I am going to load black powder for these events. How much black powder is safe to store?
Should I use real black powder or the substitutes out there?
Is real black powder cheaper than smokeless?
Are you guys really going to devide up all my guns and stuff if I blow myself to smytherynes?
Lloyd Smale has dibs on the 9,000,000 gas checks I accidently ordered.

[Boz330]

AH!!! another one drawn over to the dark side.
Depends on what BP you use. Swiss is expensive but to me worth the extra money. Regular Goex is pretty cheap compared to the premium powders and there are some even cheaper BPs but it is only fit for fireworks. Any of the substitutes are going to be as expensive or more so than Swiss.
On the other hand you can shoot something like Unique if it is allowed and get lots of shots per lb.
I'm not familiar with the SASS rules or what gun you have, so that is about the best I can help you.
I keep about 25lbs of black around since I buy in 25lb cases, I think over 50 you need a magazine. If you are concerned about it you could keep everthing that you aren't using in an out building. An old refridgerator makes a nice storage cabinet. As long as it is not contained BP isn't any worse than gasoline. Most powder anymore is in plastic bottles.

Bob

[Old Ironsights]

AH!!! another one drawn over to the dark side.
Depends on what BP you use. Swiss is expensive but to me worth the extra money. Regular Goex is pretty cheap compared to the premium powders and there are some even cheaper BPs but it is only fit for fireworks. ...

Not quite true.

I bought 25lbs of CHEAP Bulk Chinese (Lidu) 3f. People said what you do - no good, dirty, use it only for fireworks.

I took it and screened out all the fines. Ended up with about 19lbs of 3F, 5lbs of 4F and one lb of 7F.

It now shoots cleaner than Swiss, if with just a tad less velocity... and I have a bunch of Priming powder too... for waaay less money. :mrgreen:

[Ricochet]

Who makes Graf's store brand BP?

[Old Ironsights]

Wano. It's almost identical to Schutzen.

[Ricochet]

Thanks!

[Ricochet]

Are you guys really going to devide up all my guns and stuff if I blow myself to smtherynes?Arrange to have it all shipped to me and I'll see that it gets properly taken care of.

[Boz330]

Not quite true.

I bought 25lbs of CHEAP Bulk Chinese (Lidu) 3f. People said what you do - no good, dirty, use it only for fireworks.

I took it and screened out all the fines. Ended up with about 19lbs of 3F, 5lbs of 4F and one lb of 7F.

It now shoots cleaner than Swiss, if with just a tad less velocity... and I have a bunch of Priming powder too... for waaay less money. :mrgreen:

Never thought of that. I bought some 1F for a Martini and 2 rounds and you couldn't drive a patch through it. I think I payed $7 or $8 for 1 can. Got the discount because I bought 25lbs. It was half the price of Swiss. I gave it to my buddy for his cannon. Might have to get it back and give that a try.
Where did you get your screens.

Thanks
Bob

[Just Duke]

Arrange to have it all shipped to me and I'll see that it gets properly taken care of.

You paying shipping? lol ;)

[Jon K]

Duke,

1. Just send me the combinationto the safe, I'll take good care of everything.
2. Don't admit to anymore than your home state allows you to keep.

OI,

But what are you going to do with the 4F & 7F??????

Whatever granulation I buy, that's what I need & want, not something I have no use for. So where's the savings?

Just y $.02,
Jon

[Don McDowell]

Get some good bp lubed 405 gr bullets sized at .002 over groove. Load those in Winchester cases with ww primers, 70 grs of goex cartridge, a .030 fiber wad and seat the bullet to 2.6 oal, with just enough crimp to take the bell out of the case mouth. That 86 of yours will treat you right, loaded like it was intended to be.

[xtimberman]

Duke,

Does the Las Vegas SASS club allow you to shoot Black Powder Duplex loads?

If they will, you might want to try them in your '86s. Here is a recent thread discussing duplex loads:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=28402

I've never shot in BP competition where 100% BP or replica was required, but I had a 1895 Win. in .40-72 that I shot with a duplex load - best load I ever developed for that lever rifle.

You won't be able to safely load BP using your 650s unless you can rig up a metal hopper for the Dillon powder measure. More equipment to buy..... :-D

xtm

[Just Duke]

I'll let you know when I cross that bridge XT. I am checking these guys out on Sunday

[Old Ironsights]

I got my 7F screens from McMaster Carr.

Follow these links to my (almost) exhaustive research on the subject...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=72641&postcount=8

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7451&highlight=screen

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=124905&postcount=29

As for what I will do with the 4F & 7F... I shoot a Flintlock. And 4F also works mighty fine in small caliber MODERN GUN pistol cartridges like my .357.

[xtimberman]

Ordinary loading procedures using black powder don't bother me a bit, but the thought of screening and sifting black powder in a dry climate charged with static electricity scares the sheepdip outta me. Am I the only one who worries about such things?

I've read through several posts on this 'site mentioning sifting BP, and I was just wondering. Just a pound of black powder going off in your face would smart something terrible. Am I foolishly worrying about something that'll never happen?

xtm

[garandsrus]

XTM,

If it went off, I don't think you would feel a thing... :)

John

[Boz330]

Ordinary loading procedures using black powder don't bother me a bit, but the thought of screening and sifting black powder in a dry climate charged with static electricity scares the sheepdip outta me. Am I the only one who worries about such things?

I've read through several posts on this 'site mentioning sifting BP, and I was just wondering. Just a pound of black powder going off in your face would smart something terrible. Am I foolishly worrying about something that'll never happen?

xtm

Awhile back someone posted a link to a web site where they tried to set off BP with static electricity and couldn't do it. There was a video where there was a constant arc into a pile of PB and nothing happened. I'm not saying to take chances but reasonable caution should take care of the dangers. I would also work with small quantities and where safety glasses and maybe gloves. BP burns fast but in an open enviroment it doesn't explode.

Bob

Ps Ironsights Thanks.

[xtimberman]

Awhile back someone posted a link to a web site where they tried to set off BP with static electricity and couldn't do it. There was a video where there was a constant arc into a pile of PB and nothing happened. I'm not saying to take chances but reasonable caution should take care of the dangers. I would also work with small quantities and where safety glasses and maybe gloves. BP burns fast but in an open enviroment it doesn't explode.

Bob


I saw that interesting link, Bob, and still wasn't comforted to a degree where I would do it myself. :) Too many visions of chain fires in C&B revolvers - and the like - floating around in my head. :???: .... and how many times has the Pyrodex (safe alternative to BP) factory blown up?

~30 years ago, one of my friends bought a large bulk supply of a Scotch brand of BP and asked me to come over and help him pour it into 1# duPont containers. By the time the job was finished, we were both nervous wrecks - maybe for no good reason. We thought we were in territory where angels fear to tread. :) Guess I'm a wimp.

xtm

[13Echo]

The most dangerous thing in the loading room isn't black powder it is Primers. They are the most sensitive and liable to detonate item you have. Black powder in bulk won't be ignited by a static spark. It will be ignited by sparks such as from flint and steel where there is generated a shower of very hot shavings of iron and flakes of flint. Totally different from static sparks. Blow ups in powder manufacturing are almost all traced to sparks generated by foreign objects on the mill race during incorporation or in the corning process or contact with an open flame. Not static sparks, even in the very dusty operations of corning and sifting. If you'll notice Swiss powder is shipped in HDPE containers that are not conducting plastic and they don't ignite. I have no problems using a measure with plastic hoppers, or even plastic metering parts for black powder

The rules are: 1. No open flames or hot wires (electric heaters)
2. No activities that might generate hot particles (sparks)- Hammering
on an anvil for instance, smoking, etc.
3. Cleanliness - clean up spills and loose grains, wipe up any powder dust
with a damp rag
4. Allow no distractions
5. And in the immortal words of 1SG William E Summers, "Don't do
anything stupid."

Jerry Liles

[Old Ironsights]

Sifting BP on s Brass Screen generates ZERO static... (don't sift on nylon screen...)

If you are really worried about it you could always wear a grounding strap, but it's really not anything to worry about... especially using the CalGraf sifter.

[Boz330]

I saw that interesting link, Bob, and still wasn't comforted to a degree where I would do it myself. :) Too many visions of chain fires in C&B revolvers - and the like - floating around in my head. :???: .... and how many times has the Pyrodex (safe alternative to BP) factory blown up?

~30 years ago, one of my friends bought a large bulk supply of a Scotch brand of BP and asked me to come over and help him pour it into 1# duPont containers. By the time the job was finished, we were both nervous wrecks - maybe for no good reason. We thought we were in territory where angels fear to tread. :) Guess I'm a wimp.

xtm

Without a doubt I have done some stupid things in my life and been lucky enough to survive them. I now take calculated risks and try to stack the deck in my favor. If you are not comfortable, do not go past your comfort level. BP has been around for a long time and certain safety precautions do apply but it is not the devil incarnate. As Jerry's 1st Sgt said, don't do anything stupid, matter of fact my First Shirt told me the same thing. Fear is a good thing, it keeps you from doing stupid stuff. Didn't work for me many times but then I was lucky.:roll:
I'm not being a wise a$$, it is the truth.

Bob

[wills]

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

[xtimberman]

:) HeHe!

You read it here first. I concede that everyone here thinks I'm wrong to be concerned about static electricity and black powder. [smilie=1:

xtm :)