? using 20-1 for 9.3x62 and 45/70

[acsteve]

I would like to cast a few 20-1 220g gc 9.3 to be fired at 1700ft/s and 350 gr ranch dog at 1300 f/s

target is deer at much less than 100 yards

question is will they mushroom at all at that velocity
also have 250 gr LB for the 9.3 - sized down lee 375(379 as cast but sized to 368)

[Rufus Krile]

The ranch dog 350gr cup point at 1300 will do nicely... I'm leery of the full hollow point not holding together. Incidentally, I get to 1300fps w/ 16.0gr of Trail Boss and it cleans up like a dream.

[runfiverun]

would they from a revolver?

[Rufus Krile]

The velocity I'm showing is from a 30"bbl on a BPCR... so I doubt a BFR is going to generate those speeds. A friend has a 26" bbld Model '86 that delivers in the high 12's with that load and it is a fast burning powder, but I doubt a 10" bbl is going to get there.

[aspangler]

After getting a straight pass through with the Lee 405 at 1450 last fall and losing the deer, I went to almost pure. ( 62/1 ) after checking expansion again, I think I will deep cup them this year. BTW acurracy is less than 2 inches at 100. 25 Gr 2400 and a roll crimp.

[white eagle]

I used a alloy of 25-1 last season in my 45-70
loaded with 3031 and a 420 gr boolit
2 deer down one shot each

[longarm85]

I to want to hunt with my 45-70 with i believe a 340gr HP i have pure lead and clip on wheel weights what mix should i use of these 2 , i will be hunting white tail and wild pigs.....Thanks in advance for any advice...

[Outpost75]

For revolver expansion in .44-40 I use 40:1 tin/lead up to 1300 fps and 30:1 above that.

[runfiverun]

I generally cut my ww's 3 to1 with soft lead and don't add much tin if any back to the mix. [like .25%]
Tin adds brittleness when mixed with antimony.
antimony or tin alone act differently in a lead alloy then when mixed together.

antimony alone allows the lead to extrude and flow, adding tin strengthens the antimony and binds it together in a longer chain instead of floating antimony crystals which will break down under pressure and allow the lead to flow easier.

[44man]

What did I miss? I seen nothing about a revolver. The soft alloys would be fine with BP.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

if SB and SN add to brittleness together, why does lyman #@ have such a good track record for being malleable, hard and tough?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

lyman#2*

[Oklahoma Rebel]

not trying to contradict, I am really interested in knowing how the tin effects the Sb in lyman#2

[Larry Gibson]

would they from a revolver?

The Lyman "Devastator" 429640HP cast of COWW + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with lead, or 20-1 or 16-1 (my preference) expands and stays together just fine at 1350 - 1450 fps from revolvers and at 1500 - 1600 from Contenders and carbines.

The Lyman "Gould" 45-70 HP cast of 20-1 at 1250 1450 fps has been holding together for 100+ years.........

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

if SB and SN add to brittleness together, why does lyman #@ have such a good track record for being malleable, hard and tough?

Because it is hard, malleable and tough.......has to do with the correct balance of Sn and Sb in solution with the lead. However, it is not as malleable as a binary of lead and tin. It is the antimony not combined with sufficient tin to form the sub-metal SbSn that really causes the brittleness. The SbSn should be 3 - 5% each for the best alloy. At 90/5/5 Lyman #2 alloy makes the best ternary alloy that retains malleability and toughness w/o being too brittle.

The binary alloys of lead and tin provide a lessor degree of toughness with a greater degree of malleability. There isn't one alloy that will be the best at everything across the broad spectrum of cast bullet use. Choosing and using the correct alloy for best performance will provide the best results. Unfortunately many cast bullet shooters pick the wrong alloy because they don't know any different, don't want to use anything other than what they have or are too cheap to purchase/scrounge the correct metals for a correct alloy. They then reference the failure of HPs not expanding correctly or whatever, not their own failure to use a correct alloy and HP design.

It is not rocket science to come up with the correct alloy and the correct HP design for the bullet at hand and the job you want it to do. Yes it is easier to just default back to a WFN hard cast bullet (if your rifle will feed it reliably) but even though those bullets perform well with properly placed shots they will not terminally perform as well as cast bullet that expands properly.

Larry Gibson

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Well stated Larry !
About the only lead projectile I have fired through most my life hunting that has always been useful in all applications is a patched caliber 68 RB of pure lead fired from a smoothbore musket. No matter what it strikes it has expanded, passed through and left the nicest leaking hole if the critter was not knocked over to start with.
But then I never have tripped those hammers on a Ol' Shaggy and big bears. But I understand the patched .68 (or unpatched .69) did right fine.
Mike in Peru

[aspangler]

After getting a straight pass through with the Lee 405 at 1450 last fall and losing the deer, I went to almost pure. ( 62/1 ) after checking expansion again, I think I will deep cup them this year. BTW acurracy is less than 2 inches at 100. 25 Gr 2400 and a roll crimp.
I went to 62/1 and hollow pointed the 405 mold. BOY! That sure made a difference! Made a hole you could "throw a dog through" in wet newsprint pack. Same load and velocity and accuracy as the other load but BIG difference in the terminal performance. YMMV

[Oklahoma Rebel]

worried about meat loss?

[Larry Gibson]

worried about meat loss?

I quit worrying about meat loss after I lost a whole deer because I placed the shot to minimize meat loss.........

Now I aim to put the bullet through the heart regardless of angle. Better to have a little more hamburger in the freezer than no meat at all........not to mention being sick over killing a deer and not finding it before the coyotes did........

Larry Gibson

[white eagle]

I quit worrying about meat loss after I lost a whole deer because I placed the shot to minimize meat loss.........

Now I aim to put the bullet through the heart regardless of angle. Better to have a little more hamburger in the freezer than no meat at all........not to mention being sick over killing a deer and not finding it before the coyotes did........

Larry Gibson

Amen to that
keep your alloy good and velocity for that alloy good and you are golden
get either out of balance and your going to have trouble

[Grmps]

Larry, Is there a chart that shows the optimum alloy for each caliber / velocity / bullet weight

[ole_270]

Live and learn I guess, I always just assumed that softer alloys were better for expansion. How would 1.4%Sn, 2.9%Sb work for a flat nose 38 caliber 250 gr. @14-1500? Too much tin?
20 years ago I did all my deer hunting with the 311041 out of a 30-30 at about 1900-2000 fps. Alloy was mixed to a guestimated Lyman #2 with unknown scrap lead and babbit and water dropped. They got Hard! The only one I recovered looked like a 3/8" long wadcutter. That one was hit head on and the bullet recovered under the skin in the off ham. Penetrated full length of the deer. The buck dropped on the spot. Never had one run more than 30 yards even on broadside shots. My guess is the fragmenting front of the bullet acted similar to a partition with plenty of secondary wounding by the fragments. The lungs on some of those deer were in bad shape.

[kiwi]

199163
This a picture of a Mihic 432-640 281.0 grain FP after hitting a regulation HMS pig at 100 yards shot from a Freedom arms 7.5" .44 mag at 1400fps retained weigh
is 273.4 grs lead mix is 50/50 Wheel-Weights / Pure + 2% tin, A hog hunter I supply with the same boolit is getting pass throughs on real pigs at 100 yards
shoot them with subsonic loads, I was amazed how much weight was retained I expected to just recover the GC