Pistol grip vs straight stock

[oldred]

I am nearing a decision point on my HighWall project I have been working on and I have been trying to decide on the stock design, for sure it will be a brass crescent butt because I just like that design but the grip style has me going back and forth. What would be the pros and cons of a pistol grip vs straight, is it more a matter of taste or is there some real functional concerns I should consider? Also it will likely be a double set trigger and I'm not sure how well that longer lever with it's larger finger opening would look/function with a pistol grip stock? Open to suggestions here.

[M-Tecs]

Target rifles pistol grip all the way. For hunting rifles straight carries nicer.

[Gunlaker]

I really like the looks of a straight grip stock. I have a few Sharps rifles and a few highwalls with straight stocks. I won't get another though unless something really interesting comes along. I can generally shoot a pistol gripped rifle better. For offhand I find the difference is less important but for prone I have a harder time with a straight gripped gun. This is mainly because of the angle of my wrist.

I think that for offhand shooting I really like a double set trigger. Part of this is because I have a love for the schuetzen styled guns -). For prone shooting my highwalls are almost all single set trigger guns. I have just one with a schuetzen DST and the larger plain lever. It feels just a little uncomfortable in my hand because the end of the lever is in contact with one of my knuckles.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

I am somewhat partial to straight gripped guns. But on a hi wall the trigger guard if properly built can handle the pistol grips duties.

[Paul_R]

Beings as how the balance point isn't at the grip, I don't think there's any functional difference between the two styles. A pistol grip looks a lot more classy and usually carries a price premium. What caliber are you going for? Most don't like a crescent butt in a heavy recoiler. I'm one of those anatomical freaks that does, just gotta put it in the right spot and roll with it.

[Lumpy grits]

The PG helps to control torque-twist during recoil.
LG

[Toymaker]

I'm with Lumpy grits. I've also found that a pistol grip helps prevent tightening of the other fingers during trigger pull which also torques the barrel.

[country gent]

I also perfer the pistol grip as it seems to make keeping the rifle square and or level easier for me than the straight grip does. The straight grip also puts my wrist at a different angle that is harder for me to control recoil as well.

[oldred]

Beings as how the balance point isn't at the grip, I don't think there's any functional difference between the two styles. A pistol grip looks a lot more classy and usually carries a price premium. What caliber are you going for? Most don't like a crescent butt in a heavy recoiler. I'm one of those anatomical freaks that does, just gotta put it in the right spot and roll with it.


This rifle will be another 45-90 and probably about a mid weight, I have yet to decide on how heavy to make the barrel. Since it will very likely see only BP loads I don't expect recoil to unmanageable, probably enough to get a shooter's attention but not uncomfortable (at least I hope not).


After considering everything at this point I am leaning heavily toward the pistol grip style, I have a piece of Walnut picked out that has a good grain pattern that should flow into the grip area properly. I have a much better figured piece of wood that I would have really liked to use but I can't work the pistol grip into it without laying out the grain in an odd configuration so I suppose I will save that for later, just one small bad spot located in exactly the wrong place in the wood ruins it for pistol grip use.

[Lumpy grits]

I have a 30" hvy bbl'd Shiloh #1 in .45-90 with PG.
It was the correct choice....
LG

[Lead pot]

I have High walls and sharps both straight and pistol grips. I like the looks of the straight grips especially on a rifle with the crescent butplates. High wall's mostly have the S lever and it is a plus for controlling the torque the .45-90 has even when it's cold and dry out and you might have a gloved hand making it easier for the torque to twist the rifle. Your finger is on the trigger the middle finger is on the lever and the two are behind the lever making it a good solid hold controlling the rifle from twisting probably better then you can control a pistol grip.
If it was a Sharps, I have them with straight and pistol grips. With the bare hand I see no problem controlling the rifle. But when it's cold out and I have a glove on the Sharps is hard to keep from twisting with the straight grip.
The S lever High walls just feel good with straight stocked rifle.

[johnson1942]

i only put shotgun type butt plates on. much better for recoil. pistol grip or straight? pistol grip wins.

[oldred]

I have a 30" hvy bbl'd Shiloh #1 in .45-90 with PG.
It was the correct choice....
LG

How much does that rifle weigh?

[Paul_R]

Sounds crazy but a crescent butt helps keep things square and control torquing as much as any grip. And with a tang sight I don't wrap my thumb around the stock anyway so grip torquing really isn't an issue regardless of type.

[Char-Gar]

It really doesn't matter as good work can be done with either style of grip. They require a different hold, but once you figure that out either will work fine.

The crescent butt plate are quite uncomfortable with any rifle that has some recoil to it. I would not put one on a rifle, just for looks.

[EDG]

There is no way I would ever pay money for a crescent butt plate.
I can shoot a straight grip ok but I much prefer a pistol grip.

For a rifle with a lot of recoil you can control it better with the pistol grip.

[marlinman93]

I prefer a pistol grip by far, as it seems a more natural position for my hand. I also like them from an aesthetic point of view, as they just look more deluxe!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/1lw-hw.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/1lw-hw.jpg.html)

[Lead pot]

The composition of a rifle is strictly a personal choice.
I have a rifle that a lot of people would not think of having build. It has a single trigger, Crescent butplate, a light weight 30" barrel chambered for the .44-77 cartridge. They say a bottle neck wont shoot. A light weight barrel is not as good as a heavy weight, the straight stock will toque in your hands and throw shots and the crescent butplate is a bear to shoot.
Well all of this fine if it's not your cup of tea. I have a very heavy 25# Sharps with a 1.3" by 35" straight round barrel with a double set trigger and shotgun butplate and it does not shoot any better then this rifle below.
I think a rifle shoots just as well as the person behind it controls it.
I just put a new front sight on this rifle and getting it ready for a hunt next week. I filed the sight down so using the Lawrence rear sight hits center at 128 yards and ladder up for a 150 yard center or close to it just so I know where to hold off.
The first target was the last three shots at 128 yards and the bottom target is the 150 yard the last 4 shots. With barrel sights I used on these targets I cant better using the scope I had on a week before.
Don't ever count the straight stocked crescent butplate short they will shoot even with a 3# trigger pull.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_2499_zpsclhimwnh.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/940Leadpot/media/IMG_2499_zpsclhimwnh.jpg.html)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/IMG_2500_zpse2nqb6wk.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/940Leadpot/media/IMG_2500_zpse2nqb6wk.jpg.html)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_2497_zpsyps1kesk.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/940Leadpot/media/IMG_2497_zpsyps1kesk.jpg.html)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_2496_zpsi6x1thau.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/940Leadpot/media/IMG_2496_zpsi6x1thau.jpg.html)

[oldred]

Thanks guys for the pics, always nice to look at different rifles!


Lead Pot you said light 30" barrel but how light is light? I ask because I am also toying with the idea of building a much lighter rifle this time as the first one has a heavy octagon barrel and the rifle weighs in at almost 15 LBs, not a real heavyweight but I don't shoot competition and rarely over 400 yards, most shooting is 100 to 200 yds. As I worked on this thing the plan has changed somewhat and I even considered removing some excess metal in the receiver to save a few ounces there, it would be easy to do at this point and the barrel is still just a 1 3/8" piece of 4140 bar stock 34" long with a rifled bore down the center so I can make it what ever weight I want. The more I think about it the more I would like a lighter rifle that I could comfortably carry around in the woods, presently I hunt with one of my Marlins but it would be nice to hunt with the single shot too, that almost 15 LBs gets kind of heavy when I have to tote it for long periods! What are the muzzle and breech measurements on that (really good looking!) rifle?

[Lead pot]

Oldred it measures 1-1/16" at the breach 7/8 at the muzzle and I cant say exactly what it weighs. I just put it on the bathroom scale and it flashes 9-10 pounds. It's a very nice rifle to carry.
I just had it tapped for a scope last summer because I am starting to have problems seeing the rear sight the way I should but the front is still sharp. I tried to take the blocks off but the screws are so tight that I could not get the rear sight block off even with a proper fitting screw driver. They must have used locktite. I been fighting using a scope but the 3/4 century mark is changing my eyes. Never had use for a scope.

I load this rifle with 74 gr of 3F OE powder with a 485 gr bullet. It shoots this load quite well even out to 1585 yards at a full sized Buffalo using the Lawrence and front blade sights and it is capable of cutting 3 or 5 shot holes @200 yards. The felt recoil I think is less then my .45-70 with the 12# rifle. The butstock falls right into the pocket for a good hold.
I'm going to pull the heavy 35" barrel of the sharps and cut it off and profile it to a smaller tapered round 32". All that weight is fine for dampening the recoil but I don't see any accuracy increase over the light barrel. It's just to heavy.

Kurt

[BrentD]

I'd go with the crescent butt, but I'd make it proper steel like an original highwall.

As for a grip, I would go with pistol grip every time, and I own and use both. However, your action will dictate the shape of the grip unless you have the ability to bend the trigger plate and the style of the trigger permits bending (you can't bend a wide double set, but a single set or close coupled can be bent).

There is a third option, not common in 'walls, and that is a bolt on pistol grip. it has some advantages over all other options but is not a simple deal.

[Lead pot]

Hey Brent!
When are you going to post your Alaskan adventure with pictures????

[BrentD]

I posted a brief note in the bp paper patch thread, but you can peruse some pictures at http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Moose/

[oldred]

I am starting to have problems seeing the rear sight the way I should but the front is still sharp.Kurt

Wow, can I ever relate to that! I can see the front sight clearly but can hardly see the rear sight at all or the other way around if I focus on the rear sight but never both at the same time! The eye doc made me a special pair of glasses that helps a lot and makes shooting possible but I can only wear these while shooting and have to switch to my regular glasses at all other times. Even with the glasses I need to use a square notch on the rear sight and even with that when sighting one side of the notch appears as a "V" notch, thus the left side of the notch appears vertical while the right side appears slanted with no flat at the bottom of the notch, sort of like a tilted "V". Eye doc says there's nothing that can be done to correct this so iron sights are a short range affair for me. Tang sights work better but again it's still a fuzzy affair at best, this is why competition shooting or anything really precise is out for me without using a scope.


Doesn't matter a whole lot however, if I had any more fun shooting than I do now I don't think I could stand it! :mrgreen:

[M-Tecs]

As long as you still can see the front sight clearly you can still shoot very well with aperture sights. When the front sight starts to get fuzzy switching to an aperture front sight really helps.

[oldred]

As long as you still can see the front sight clearly you can still shoot very well with aperture sights. When the front sight starts to get fuzzy switching to an aperture front sight really helps.

No doubt about that, the aperture sight makes a big difference but my vision is a problem and something I have dealt with my entire adult life, I was a heavy equipment repairman/welder by trade and had to use special reading glasses under my welding helmet. Funny thing is that although I have these vision problems my long range vision is still good and I had no problems passing the FAA physical for my pilots license with glasses but when I try to focus on a small object up close everything gets fuzzy, FAA docs say OK every time I go in for my physical but they have questioned me about it each time.

[Lead pot]

one side of the notch appears as a "V" notch, thus the left side of the notch appears vertical while the right side appears slanted with no flat at the bottom of the notch, sort of like a tilted "V".


:) well sounds like you have the best choice of two worlds that way :-D

[oldred]

I know it sounds silly but that's about the only way to describe it, whenever I try to focus on something small and closeup like that it becomes fuzzy and distorted.

[Lumpy grits]

I know it sounds silly but that's about the only way to describe it, whenever I try to focus on something small and closeup like that it becomes fuzzy and distorted.

PLEASE-Get your eyes ck'd ASAP.
FAA eye test is not very conclusive.
LG

[Lead pot]

The old lamps grow dim with age.

[Lumpy grits]

The old lamps grow dim with age.

"Fuzzy' and 'distorted' is is not dim........
LG

[rfd]

it's ALL subjective personal preference. pick whatever makes ya happiest or most consistently accurate.

my subjectiveness - i prefer pistol grips on my target bpcr's because they allow a consistent physical grip point instead of fingers curling around air. i like .40-65 to .45-90 rifles in the 11-12# total weight range, and 30" to 34" barrels. the target sight part is no contest - vernier soule and front spirit globe.

it's all good one way or another to somebody, take yer pick!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'd agree that good work can be done with both, but I find a pistol grip by far the most natural and comfortable. There is a belief that because straight grips are so often used for extremely quick shooting with shotguns, they must be better for similar work with rifles. But that is because a shotgun double trigger must be used with the hand sliding into a slightly difficult position. Even with a double set trigger rifle, the hand is always in the same position in the act of shooting.