1911 Gurus. I have a problem

[williamwaco]

1911 gurus:

Last week, I field stripped my 1911 9mm target pistol.
Guess what I lost? The recoil spring plug. ( Surprise )

I went on line at Midway, and Brownells and the Kimber web site to look for replacements. None of
these sources make any distinction between caliber. They offer only two options. Blue or Stainless
steel.

I thought if they are the same, I can take one out of a spare .45 and use it. I did.
Note I took ONLY THE PLUG - not the spring.

I reassembled the 9mm and it appeared to work perfectly.
I took it to the range and with the same ammo from the same box that was working perfectly the day
before, 25 yard groups opened up from 3" to over 24" and the empty cartridge cases would barely eject.

It was like someone had removed half the powder charge. The slide would not cycle far enough to pick
up the next round off the magazine. I thought "Did I put the .45 recoil spring in there"? Nope It was
still in the partially stripped .45 and the wire measured .043. The wire in the 9mm measured .037.

I decided I must have assembled it wrong so I stripped it and gave it a good cleaning and very
carefully reassembled it.

Took it back to the range this morning with the same reloads and a box of Winchester "White Box" 115
grain factory loads. The reloads were 4.5 gr AA No 2 with the Lee 124 Gr TC bullet. ( Accurate data
lists 4.6 as Max.)

Neither of these would operate the slide more than 50% of the time.

The good news is that the groups were back to 3"

Remember. The ONLY thing that changed was the recoil spring plug.

What did I do wrong? Any Ideas?

[Mk42gunner]

Are both guns the same length, i.e. both 5" Gov't or both 4¼" Commander? Does the barrel bushing rotate into place properly?

Robert

[williamwaco]

Are both guns the same length, i.e. both 5" Gov't or both 4¼" Commander? Does the barrel bushing rotate into place properly?

Robert

Yes and yes full length. Assembly seems completely normal.

The springs are identical. Same length, same number of turns, only difference is the diameter of the wire. .043 on the .45 spring and .037 on the 9mm spring.

[jcren]

Dumb question, but is the spring in the right direction? Backwards install can cause coil bind and ftf. Don't ask how long it took me to figure that out.

[ole 5 hole group]

Dumb question, but is the spring in the right direction? Backwards install can cause coil bind and ftf. Don't ask how long it took me to figure that out.

What he's saying here is the closed end of the spring goes onto the guide - the open end of the recoil spring goes into the plug - sometimes that can make a difference.

Two foot groups aren't bad if you're shooting at 200 yard targets - I've missed coyotes at 200 yards by 10 feet - it was a holdover thing.;)

[williamwaco]

Dumb question, but is the spring in the right direction? Backwards install can cause coil bind and ftf. Don't ask how long it took me to figure that out.


OK! I didn't know there was a difference. It was reversed. I have changed that and will try it out tomorrow.

Thanks.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Did you acquire the pistol new or used? About how many rounds through it (if used, that you know of)?

It is not logical that changing the recoil spring plug would have any effect at all. It is not logical that installing the recoil spring backward would cause your slide not to open fully, although I do understand what our friends are talking about. As they come from the factory, the spring has one tight end that will barely slide over the recoil spring guide, and that's the proper way to install it.

The power of your reloads, from the same batch, and the white box factory ammo did not change.

My first speculation would be that your barrel link needs to be replaced. But without examining the pistol or having the total rounds fired information it is just that--speculation.

[bangerjim]

I have been down that lost plug road! And the reversed spring this is a big deal.

After tearing the place apart looking for it, I simply cranked out another one on the lathe. 20 min & done.

And I made a couple spares! Good to have spares for that kind of spring loaded projectile that can catch you off guard.

banger

[williamwaco]

I have been down that lost plug road! And the reversed spring this is a big deal.

After tearing the place apart looking for it, I simply cranked out another one on the lathe. 20 min & done.

And I made a couple spares! Good to have spares for that kind of spring loaded projectile that can catch you off guard.

banger


I have three in my shopping cart but I don't want to pull the trigger until I am confident I can fix it.

[williamwaco]

Did you acquire the pistol new or used? About how many rounds through it (if used, that you know of)?

It is not logical that changing the recoil spring plug would have any effect at all. It is not logical that installing the recoil spring backward would cause your slide not to open fully, although I do understand what our friends are talking about. As they come from the factory, the spring has one tight end that will barely slide over the recoil spring guide, and that's the proper way to install it.

The power of your reloads, from the same batch, and the white box factory ammo did not change.

My first speculation would be that your barrel link needs to be replaced. But without examining the pistol or having the total rounds fired information it is just that--speculation.


New, Kimber 9mm Stainless Steel Target model total around 500 rounds.
I don't think it is the link since it worked fine one one magazine and not at all on the next magazine. ( Same Magazine.)

[jakharath]

Don't forget the firing pin spring is also directional.

[williamwaco]

Dumb question, but is the spring in the right direction? Backwards install can cause coil bind and ftf. Don't ask how long it took me to figure that out.

Good question. The spring was reversed.

I corrected that and re-cleaned everything with extra attention to the recoil spring. Gave it a light coat of Frog Lube.

No Joy.

2 of 5 failed to even extract and even when they did extract and eject, they did not operate the slide far enough for the magazine catch to hold it open after the last round.

The good news is that 50 rounds of three different types of ammo ( two factory and one reload ) all grouped in 3" at 25 yards.
What ever was causing the terrible inaccuracy is fixed.

I am going to order a new plug from Kimber today and hope for the best.

[DougGuy]

The lower barrel feet can hit the back of the recoil spring plug when the gun goes into battery IF something isn't right there. Make sure this isn't what's going on. Use some sharpie marker and color the top of the recoil plug, and also the front of the lower feet on the barrel, then rack the slide and see if any of it is rubbed off.

Edit: I learned the hard way about frog lube. DO NOT let it anywhere near a live primer. That stuff creeps and crawls and if you got any at all in the firing pin bore, it can creep down the bore and inert the primer, as the gun is carried in the vertical position. ASK me how I know this! :shock:

[Moonie]

I started having issues with my compact 1911 after applying frog lube, once I removed it the ftf issues ended.

[williamwaco]

OK, I am in over my Head. It isn't the plug. It is the disconnector.

Compared it to two other 1911s. The disconnector depresses easily with the slide removed.

On this one It is very difficult to depress with the flat of a screwdriver blade and with the barrel and recoil spring removed it is VERY difficult to move the slide back and forth.

My other 1911s slide easily with the barrel and spring removed.

Anyone know a 1911 smith around Dallas?

[ole 5 hole group]

I doubt the disconnector is your problem here. You just might have some gunk in your sear/hammer area, see if you can spray some good solvent in that area. You can completely strip your 1911 - it's not difficult and there will be some u-tube stuff etc if you need a reference.

You might think stripping the 1911 down is only for gunsmiths, but I assure you - it is easy once you get over your mental block. Now messing with certain parts using a file or polishing wheel - well, that will take a little more hands-on experience and several spare replacements parts to get comfortable with everything.

[jcren]

5 hole is correct, nothing to a 1911 after you do one. The mechanism is very simple and it shouldn't be hard to spot the problem.

[williamwaco]

I doubt the disconnector is your problem here. You just might have some gunk in your sear/hammer area, see if you can spray some good solvent in that area. You can completely strip your 1911 - it's not difficult and there will be some u-tube stuff etc if you need a reference.

You might think stripping the 1911 down is only for gunsmiths, but I assure you - it is easy once you get over your mental block. Now messing with certain parts using a file or polishing wheel - well, that will take a little more hands-on experience and several spare replacements parts to get comfortable with everything.


OK. I tried the spray. It helped a little.
Iguess I am on the way to You tube.

[gray wolf]

OK, I am in over my Head. It isn't the plug. It is the disconnector.

Compared it to two other 1911s. The disconnector depresses easily with the slide removed.

On this one It is very difficult to depress with the flat of a screwdriver blade and with the barrel and recoil spring removed it is VERY difficult to move the slide back and forth.

My other 1911s slide easily with the barrel and spring removed.

Anyone know a 1911 smith around Dallas?

Can we clear up exactly what you lost and what you swapped out.

If you have not done a total strip down of the pistol how did the disconnect get involved in this dilemma ?
Can't get it out without tearing the gun down, and it's near impossible to put one in backwards.

Also the recoil spring plug should not cause this kind of a problem.

I would like to know ( after you look at an illustrated parts breakdown ) what parts are involved.

A 1911 does not need any fancy dancy lube, A little ATF gets the job done just fine, with maybe a smidgen of grease on the rails.

[Tackleberry41]

Being a Kimber, they don't have some proprietary plug thats required for their pistols?

Only place you see a part designation is extractors, ejectors, firing pin, slide lock to fit a smaller case than a 45. I put a 1911 together in 7.62x25 using random parts from the bin in the garage, so can't see where a recoil spring plug would make any difference, unless as I asked its just a Kimber thing to make stuff different for the sake of charging you extra when you need the part.

[williamwaco]

Sorry this is so late.

I tried to post it earlier but the site has been down for "Upgrades"


Solution.

I guess it was just dirty.

I have never stripped it that far.

I striped everything out of the grip.
I couldn't see anything wrong but there was some carbon, dust, and accumulated lube.

I sprayed everything, inside and out, aggressively with brake cleaner, then brushed it aggressively with a nylon brush, then sprayed it again then blew everything dry with my air compressor.

Reassembled and it works perfectly.
I striped everything out of the back strap.
I couldn't see anything wrong but there was some carbon, dust, and accumulated lube.

I sprayed everything, inside and out, aggressively with brake cleaner, then brushed it aggressively with a nylon brush, they sprayed it again then blew everything dry with my air compressor.

Reassembled and it works perfectly.

[30calflash]

FWIW you can take a piece of 45acp brass, trim half the rim down to the correct amount and it can be used as a plug. Seen it in the American Rifleman years back.

[DougGuy]

Don't laugh but I took an old RO's edc Commander in for checkering, and there was SO much lint inside it, that the hammer would not fall. It did a slow roll and took 3-4 seconds to fall from full cock and pull the trigger to resting on the firing pin. Should have seen the look on his face when I told him what he had been carrying the last 40yrs..

[ole 5 hole group]

OK williamwaco - you saved yourself a little money and gained self-confidence in field stripping that 1911 down further than you're ever done previously. Good for you. Piece of cake once you make up your mind to do it.

As for lubing that 1911 - there's a ton of good lubes out there and pretty much all of them do a good job. As for a spray I don't think you'll find better than Hornady One Shot - HD Extreme relative to corrosion prevention and a lubricant for a single product - some are as good, but none are better. If you're going to shoot 200/300 rounds in an afternoon, I would grease the slide rails also - myself, I like Mobile 1 synthetic red bearing grease in that location.

[MtGun44]

Glad you sorted it out.

Disconnector being stiff is sign of serious, hard crud.

I used to put one drop of Break Free on the barrel hood, one on each slide rail
behind the frame with the slide locked back and one on the barrel exterior
where the bushing hits it when closed. This was the drill before every match
and I could go at least 5000 rds between detail stripping.

It was gunky and filthy but the Break Free kept it all loose and non-binding.
I would "every once and a while" put a drop on the disconnector top to run
down the hole and on the front of the cocked hammer, bottom, to get into
the sear area, too. A few drops of a good, THIN lube oil every range trip
will keep it running fine. It needs this more to keep the gunk from packing up as
hard dry mess than for actual lubrication, IMO. The gun will run well dry and
clean but if dirty, it needs lube to keep it all "slushy".

Bill

[Mk42gunner]

The only time I ever saw anything like that with the disconnector was when the leaf spring was installed wrong. the cnter leaf should ride against the rear angled face of the disconnector, not under it.

Robert

[TXGunNut]

First rule of dealing with function issues is to give it a good cleaning. My carry guns are seldom perfectly clean but they never get very dirty either. Too much oil attracts powder residue, dirt, lint and other bad stuff on a carry gun.
I went hunting with a deputy sheriff quite a few years back, DougGuy. His nickel 19's cylinder would not open, ejector rod had backed out. When I resolved that I had to push a few gunked-up green rounds out of the cylinder with a dowel. Some 38's, some .357. Gave it a good scrubbing and a little oil. While I had my cleaning kit out I discovered a new set of S&W target grips in the bottom. When I got done with that old revolver I had a friend for life.
Oh yeah, he went home with fresh ammo, too. :bigsmyl2:

[pretzelxx]

I was told to disassemble spring loaded objects with a 2 gallon zip lock..

[edp2k]

John Browning designed the 1911 so efficiently
that a spent 45 ACP cartridge case can be used as a recoil spring plug.

A wise thing when field stripping a 1911 when you really are out in the field
and the recoil spring plug goes zing! out of your trench and into no-mans-land :-)

[Leadmelter]

Check out Wolfe Springs
Leadmelter
MI

[bruce drake]

Have you found the original recoil spring plug yet?

[ole 5 hole group]

I've had a few springs grow wings over the years but never with a 1911 or semi-auto pistol.

I know what is taught today on how to field strip a 1911 but back in the 1950's - ya, way back then!!! - as a youngster, I was taught a much different and to me a simpler way to quickly disassemble and re-assemble a 1911.

When I thought I was good enough to benefit from a custom 1911, this was about the only way to disassemble those 1911's back in the day, as that barrel bushing seemed to be part of the barrel !!

Here is a video posted by Alchemy Custom Weaponry, which by the way is a very good 1911 gunsmith shop and one I highly recommend, showing the method I was taught. Try it, you might like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJhPari7dpc

[Bazoo]

The disconnector problem sounded like the leaf spring was installed improperly to me. Glad you got it fixed.

Personally, i dont like froglube. I like a heavier oil for lubing a 1911. Something like 3 in 1.

Whenever i lube my 1911, i depress the disconnector, and then pull the trigger. This causes the disconnector to stay down, and i put a drop of oil on it.

I carry a 1911 daily, a springfield armory milspec, stainless. I am a carpenter, and i get all sorts of accumulated debris and dust around the hammer and innards. I normally take the gun out and shoot it to see that it will still function in this condition, it always does.