Midway Owner Ad and the American Rifleman

[PatMarlin]

Anyone notice the latest Midway Ads where the owner is behind a reloading counter performing various tasks?

Well the latest shows him holding a full case tray of brass with one hand, under an RCBS powder measure and charging with his other hand.

Do any of you guys do this? ...:shock:

I always thought one of the reasons you use reloading trays is so you can take one (1) case from a tray, charge it or perform whatever step you are doing, and set it over in the next tray. Preferably on the oposit side of your measure, press, or whatever. That way you can safely keep track of what you are doing. At least separate small amounts of loads from one end of a single tray to the other end.

He's waving the whole darn thing under the measure like a cocktail waitress for cryin out loud.. :mrgreen: . . . ...:roll:... . . .

[sundog]

Well, maybe he's got only one tray...

Actually, dumping powder like that (a whole tray at a time) is a GOOD way to make a really bad mistake. Pat, you are right as far as I'm concerned. Take one prepped case, charge it and visually inspect the charge, seat the boolit, place in the 'finished' tray or storage box.

I know someone who loads like that and he had at least three rounds with no powder at the match last month. And that's not the first time. I don't shoot near him for fear of a double charge. I, and several others, have counseled him on the error of his ways. After this last episode, I think he was listening. Driving stuck bullets from a barrel don't have to happen, especially when it's self induced!

[Uncle R.]

Yep - I do it - sometimes.
It depends on what I'm loading and for what purpose. Straight-sided pistol cases often get this treatment - especially if the powder charge fills a substantial portion of the case. (Makes it easier to spot a double charge.) The NEXT step is to set the loaded tray on the bench, and (using a flashlight) give a careful visual inspection to every case to verify the charge level.
As long as you charge and inspect in an orderly and disciplined fashion there's no more chance for error than with any other method. I've been doing it this way for many years and many thousands of rounds without mishap.
Uncle R.

[BABore]

I do load pistol cases like this when I'm dropping a single charge weight for the entire tray. It allows for a consistent dump when you can go at a steady pace. When the tray is full, it gets set under a strong light source and each case is inspected looking for double or no-charge conditions. This gets done twice over. As I seldom if ever use really fast pistol powders, any variance is large and very evident. Been doing this for 25 years and have never mucked things up. I've never had a double charge and only a couple times failed to charge cases. When I don't charge a case, it's a whole row that will get missed. A third inspection gets done as the bullet is set in the case mouth.

[500bfrman]

That's how I do all my handgun rounds. 44,454,460,500 etc. I made a mistake one time about 7 years ago. Needless to say I visually inspect the whole tray under good light now. One time I got 454 speed out of a 44. Not enjoyable at all.

[Blammer]

I do that quite a bit.

Of course I use powder charges that if I double charge the powder is overflowing the case....

[GSM]

Hell no.

Empties in a bowl (makes it obvious that they don't have powder in them), charged cases in a tray - the path of motion does not cross.

[cobbmtmac]

Well, I don't and I won't. :coffee:

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I've done it with my RCBS Little Dandy Pistol Measure for light loads when my bench measures held a different powder, and I needed more than a few rounds.

Of course, this type of measure can be held in the left hand, and moved from one case to the next, the right hand turning the knob, and the loading block lying on the bench. It's much faster than bringing the cases under a measure, and I ALWAYS check after with a flashlight.

Morgan

[Cherokee]

I drop powder in all the cases in the tray in one operation. Then I inspect the charged cases before finishing the loading. I feel I get a more consistant drop of the powder in the cases if I do them all as part of one operation. In over 50 years, I have had no double charges. To each his own, just be safe.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Primed cases are either MOUTH DOWN in a block or higgledy piggledy in a bin. Cases go one at a time to the measure, then to the block. When all cases are charged they are flashlight checked for level before seating. Also, I once double charged a case, and caught it in the flashlight check. Since then ALL scale check charges are dropped on the scale pan and returned to the measure without exception. That way there is no deviation from the rhythm of charging.

I imagine Potterfield is "loading" with simulated powder, a very effective way to avoid spills and double charges.

[SCOTT ARTHUR]

I saw the ad also. Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up!!! My 23 yr. old son was watching the same ad & said " That damn fool is gonna screw up a good gun one of these days" I guess he HAS been paying attention all these years!

[Gussy]

Yes, almost always. I don't with black powder as that is drop tubed and the cases are really full and will have to be compressed. When I load white, I load a whole tray at a time. THEN, I look down in each case to check powder level. I should also note that I look down in each case to make sure it's primed too. I only put the right amount of primers in the tubes and they better match count when I'm done priming.

NOTE: EVERYTHING I LOAD CANNOT BE DOUBLE CHARGED. All are full and near max loads. I mainly look to make sure their was not a powder hang up and one is higher or lower. I load very little white powder. Mostly in varmint cals.

[Junior1942]

What's the problem? That's the way I've done it for years. Charge all the cases in the tray, then look down in them under a light. It's easy to see a double charge or a no charge.

My and the owner's way is better than your way, and redheads are better, too. So there.

[PatMarlin]

I saw the ad also. Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up!!! My 23 yr. old son was watching the same ad & said " That damn fool is gonna screw up a good gun one of these days" I guess he HAS been paying attention all these years!

That was my reaction and point also.

I don't think it's good basic operating procedure for reloaders. Now you other guys, who have been reloading for ions and are fully versed in the possible dangers, choosing your method of double checking is fine, since it seems to have worked for you so far.

BUT- I think Midway is negligent and irresponsible for publishing that. Could also very well set themselves up for a lawsuit.

[carpetman]

I take the primed brass from the container--bowl cup or whatever---charge it and place it on the reloading tray. In Potterfields case,maybe he is keeping one hand free to pick your pocket with?

[mtgrs737]

I did that way once. But upon inspection I noticed that one case in the middle of the tray had no powder and another right next to it had more than the rest. Nuff said, that was the last time I used that techique.

[xr650]

Take one prepped case, charge it and visually inspect the charge, seat the boolit, place in the 'finished' tray or storage box.


I have been thinkin' I was the only one who did this.
Seems the way to go to me.

[PatMarlin]

I take the primed brass from the container--bowl cup or whatever---charge it and place it on the reloading tray. In Potterfields case,maybe he is keeping one hand free to pick your pocket with?

Ya- RayCarpetmen,

I am getting a little annoyed with Potter's pocket picking and shipping charges. In fact, I have ceased all business dealings... :mrgreen:

[AllanD]

I "rough charge" all my cases by that exact method.

HOWEVER, all those charges will be dumped into a scale pan and trickled
to the EXACT desired weight before I sit a bullet (inverted) in the case mouth.

the bullet is set "upright" only before the case goes into the seating die.

The more times you can do a simple movement rather than a series of
sequential movements the more efficiently you can load.

So you divide the job into portions.

Mind you this is only done for rifle ammo.
Pistol ammo is churned out at several hundred
rounds per hour on my progressive.

AD

[Ricochet]

I have been thinkin' I was the only one who did this.
Seems the way to go to me.
That's how I do it, too.

[richbug]

Ya- RayCarpetmen,

I am getting a little annoyed with Potter's pocket picking and shipping charges. In fact, I have ceased all business dealings... :mrgreen:

SO you just started a thread simply to bash MIDWAY, even though you don't do business with them?

Isn't the pot calling the kettle black here? Pocket picking????????? Selling boxes of sawdust isn't pocket picking?

If anyone wants sawdust and planer chips, they are welcome to come and get it for free. My 2 and 4 year old boys have a a blast playing in it, but won't miss some. Current flavors are Walnut, Butternut, and Sassafras.

[45nut]

C'mon folks, there are literally millions of suitable issues worthy of bashing, we don't need to bash each other here.

[Lloyd Smale]

all the time.

[Orygun]

What's the problem? That's the way I've done it for years. Charge all the cases in the tray, then look down in them under a light. It's easy to see a double charge or a no charge.

My and the owner's way is better than your way, and redheads are better, too. So there.

There's the key...(well dunno about the redheads) ;), but a visual check under good light is pretty easy to see if any are over/under charged. I always charge a tray of 50 (handgun cases) under the measure, but my rifle cases are thrown into the powder scale tray and then trickled up to weight. YMMY

But anymore, my shootin' bud's Dillon 1050 wiith ALL the bells and whistles, make things pretty fast and easy. :)

[mtgrs737]

I too have been sending my business elsewhere since Midways January price increase came out. Natchez and Midsouth have both been more resonable by quite a bit. I know it must be tough to know where to set prices when you only publish a catalog once a year and suppliers raise prices two or more times a year. I have noticed that Midway seems to be running a lot more e-mail sales than normal, maybe that is how they are making the adjustments to lower sales volume.

[Ed Barrett]

I have loaded using a full case holder of pistol cases that way, mostly 45 auto. Never had a light load or a or a heavy load, I have known some top competition shooters who have loaded that way. I don't at the present time since the stand my measure is on doesn't allow me to get the center cases, and I load mostly rifle cases now. I was thought that you should NEVER NEVER use duplex loads for 30 years. Now I have even used some triplex loads. It all depends on the individual. Everybody has his own way of doing things which makes us a little or a lot different, if it wasn't that way we would be a commodity like #2 yellow corn.

[mold maker]

A difference in powder level is much easier to spot in a tray of 50 (straight walled) than hand held one at a time, so it stands to reason that that is the safest, regardless of how the brass made it to the charger. A rhythm of charging, (hand gun brass) in the tray, is easier than handling the brass one at a time, and less chance of spilled powder.
Tomorrow might be the first, but I've never had a missed charge or double charge. I have found questionable powder levels while looking at the whole tray one at a time. These are poured out and recharged before a second inspection.
All rifle brass is handled one at a time to the charger or individually weighed and poured into the blocked case.
If we all did everything the same, what a dull world this would be.. Besides, what would we discuss here.
As long as safety is the key, everyone can develop the method that serves him best.

[AZ-Stew]

I use the Sundog method (or maybe he uses mine). Sized and primed cases are charged with powder, inspected and have the bullet seated one at a time. Charge, look, seat bullet, place in box. Repeat. This is the method I've used for 35+ years for rifle, and the one I used for many years for handgun on a single-stage press (yeah, that's how we OFs used to load for handguns in the years BD (Before Dillon)). I never have more than one powder-charged case on the bench that doesn't have the bullet fully seated. It's never on the bench, anyway. It remains in my hand until the bullet is seated.

I do all my handgun loading on a Dillon 550 now. I need to rig up a mirror so I can see into the case under the powder measure. I forgot to replace the powder measure return rod once after changing calibers and loaded about half a box of .32 H&Rs with no powder. I realized my problem before I finished loading that box. It sits on my bench waiting for a collet bullet puller (on order). The little .32 bullets aren't heavy enough to pull with an inertia puller. Too much work.

Regards,

Stew

[Bret4207]

I often hold the measure and charge the cases as they sit in a tray. Lots faster. As long as you can spot the powder you can tell is it's double charged, half charged, etc. A guy I used to know told me I was sure to kill myself doing this as I would get a double for sure. Even when I purposely double charged a case and it over flowed with powder he still didn't like it. To each their own.

[mtnman31]

I too use the tray-at-a-time method. It has always worked for me. Once all the cases are filled it is easier to spot any differences in powder level when you have fifty cases lined up vice a single case in hand. That is all moot anyway since my powder loads, if double charged, use enough volume to either overflow the case or are very apparent if something is amiss.

I played with the one-at-a-time method off and on but it just never took with me. All my loading is done on a single stage press and the tray-at-a-time method helps, albeit in just a small way, to make the process a bit faster.

As for the notion that Midway is opening themselves up to a lawsuit, that is just ridiculous. Unfortunately, in our litigous society as ridiculous as that may sound it is always a possibility. Maybe I am old fashioned (at my youthful age), but whatever happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?

Bottom line is that everyone just needs to use the method "what works for me". I use what works and take the necessary precautions to eliminate or minimize risk. I am open to suggestions and change, but I typically research things fairly thoroughly and use a method or make choices based off an informed decision and not just because it is what has always been done.

USE WHATEVER WORKS FOR YOU!

[bobk]

Since I am the above-mentioned fowl, I avoid very fast burning powders, and only use powders slow enough that a double charge will overflow the case, and get my attention.
Bob K

[454PB]

I don't do it that way, and I don't see how it can be done with fine ball powders without spilling some of the charge. I hold each case tightly against the concave bottom of the powder measure, if I happen to have it slightly crooked, powder will spill out.

[tom barthel]

Could it have just been a staged photograph for advertising? I see a lot of pictures I look at and say, "NO WAY". I didn't see the picture being discussed or just cussed. I'm guessing it was just an add not a training or how to book. Hopefully a reloader will be smart enough to read the instructions. I don't do my reloading as described here. I go slow and easy with a single stage type press. I check my loads one at a time.

[mike in co]

heck i do it all the time. i have tons of trays, will do multiple trays at a time.
the caviat(sp) to this process is (with the excepting of my cast boolit rifle loads) all of my loads fill the case greater than 50 percent full...most are 60 percent or more. you cannot double charge a case!

like some of you, hopefully most of you, when i do a sub charge for a cast boolit load, i DO ONE CASE AT A TIME, AND THEN SEAT THE BOOLIT. again no part of the process allows me to double charge. as a final step in cast boolit sub loads i weigh the completed rounds...one final check for a hiccup in the process.

can you imagine how long it would have taken me to load my 40 s&w ammo the last time i loaded ?...it was 7000 rounds........( ok i cheated..i used a dillon 550)..........

bottom line is there is a safe way to what is shown in the ad.

mike in co

[DLCTEX]

I load pistol cartridges a block at a time when the powder charge is large enough to make a noticeable difference in height when viewed with a light afterward. If one doesn't look right, weigh it . Never had a problem this way. Had lots of problems with double charge, no charge, low charge, when I started using progressives. I never fired a double charge, but pulled many bullets when a problem was found. I have solved the problems as they came up and found methods for inspection so that I am comfortable with how I load what I load. Rifle charges are thrown into the pan just shy of the desired charge and dribbled to the mark, then a bullet is seated right then. Just my way, DALE

[S.R.Custom]

What's the problem? That's the way I've done it for years. Charge all the cases in the tray, then look down in them under a light. It's easy to see a double charge or a no charge.

My and the owner's way is better than your way, and redheads are better, too. So there.

Yep, me too. Until the redhead walks into the room, then all eyes are on her...:mrgreen:

[Ben]

My way may not be the best way, but to prevent a double charge, I take all empty primed cases and place them into " Tray A " and place them mouth down ( that way I know they are empty ),

From " Tray A ", I pick them up....charge them with my powder measure and then place the charged case mouth up into " Tray B."

Then I'm ready to seat the bullets.

Works for me.

Ben

[PatMarlin]

SO you just started a thread simply to bash MIDWAY, even though you don't do business with them?

Isn't the pot calling the kettle black here? Pocket picking????????? Selling boxes of sawdust isn't pocket picking?

If anyone wants sawdust and planer chips, they are welcome to come and get it for free. My 2 and 4 year old boys have a a blast playing in it, but won't miss some. Current flavors are Walnut, Butternut, and Sassafras.


Sorry Rich Bug but I have spent thousands of dollars with Midway. And yes if I want to criticize an ad I think is questionable I will.

As for my flux, I don't think anyone who's decided to buy it feels I've picked their pocket. Guys around here don't fall for such nonsense.

Your idiotic post falls into that category... :roll:

[jim4065]

Started "volume" reloading for 357 mag with a Quinetics hand-held powder measure. The first manual I bought said to use Unique instead of 231 or Bullseye for light loads so that a double charge would be readily apparent. Using a "slow" powder worked then and still works.

Can't seem to stop looking in the cases though ....................

[Yukoner]

What's the problem? That's the way I've done it for years. Charge all the cases in the tray, then look down in them under a light. It's easy to see a double charge or a no charge.


That is exactly the way I do it!

Easy to see the powder level. Hard to miss a case that doesn't have the powder at the same level as the rest in the tray.

Ted

[Three44s]

I am a confirmed "block charger" as well!

I double check all my empties by upending them ...... then place in the block to be charged.

Check for "empty" with a good light.

Charge the whole block.

Recheck for charge with the good light once more.

Seat bullets.

Block charging is certainly refered to in manuals.

I feel that handling individual cases is no safer and may be LESS safe.

When I do individual case charging ....... I still check with the light!

Three 44s

[richbug]

Sorry Rich Bug but I have spent thousands of dollars with Midway. And yes if I want to criticize an ad I think is questionable I will.

As for my flux, I don't think anyone who's decided to buy it feels I've picked their pocket. Guys around here don't fall for such nonsense.

Your idiotic post falls into that category... :roll:


My comment regarding your flux was uncalled for, my deepest apologies. I applaud you on your entrepreneurial skills in creating a and marketing a waste product. Recycling in its finest sense.


I just get so tired of everyone bashing Midway, no one has been happy ever since they quit including the cost of shipping in their prices. Diesel is $4 plus a gallon and UPS just signed a new contract making huge money.

[10-x]

Each to his own. Started out with 2 blocks for the simple reason IMHO that it's safer. Pistol brass from the tumbler is inspected under a magnifing glass lamp, placed base up in one block. They get primed and stood up, then one at a time they are charged and placed in the other block on the other side of the powder measure. I check every 10th or so charge by scale. Never had a problem since the early 70's:-D

[jonk]

I do this quite a bit if I'm not weighing individual charges- which I only do for matches anyhow. It depends on the caliber and powder charge though. If the powder charge would overflow the case if doubled, or at least be blatantly obvious if you look down at the tray of charged cases, then I do it. OTOH, for things like light .38 loads with bullseye I don't do it (though I do those on a progressive press anyhow).

Nothing wrong with the technique if you check before moving those charged cases on for loading.

[NSP64]

Well, maybe he's got only one tray...

If by going to midways website is an indication, he may only have 1 tray. they are out of everything

[NSP64]

As with all things individual, do what is comfortable for you, I load both ways. Pistol cases I load in block form, Rifle one at a time. I have found the most IMPORTANT thing in reloading is no distactions. If I cannot do it without distractions, I won't do it.:drinks:

[500bfrman]

Your idiotic post falls into that category... :roll:


I love it how gun lovers really stick together. Umm fellas it's an advertisement. chill out.

[PatMarlin]

It was not my intention to bash Midway or other reloaders by starting this thread. I just questioned the method of "full block" charging as I would have not through it to be a safe process in my experience, and I think it surprised me as I've never seen that done before.

By the posts here in this thread, I see that it's obviously done and performed safely if done correctly. Personally, I will stick to my method of charging, as I know you folks will stick to yours. I think it's a good thing for new reloaders to read about this and be aware of the potential problems etc., etc.

My lawsuit comment was a brief over the top statement but in this day and age we know it happens... :mrgreen:




My comment regarding your flux was uncalled for, my deepest apologies. I applaud you on your entrepreneurial skills in creating a and marketing a waste product. Recycling in its finest sense.

I just get so tired of everyone bashing Midway, no one has been happy ever since they quit including the cost of shipping in their prices. Diesel is $4 plus a gallon and UPS just signed a new contract making huge money.

I accept your apology RB. It's not sawdust, and I don't make much on this as it probably is taking more of my time than it is worth. The post office takes home the profit. At least it will help support the Forum here and supply members who need it. I don't see it as a waste product. It gets used here one way or another. Trees rotting in the forest is a waste product, cept' for the bugs it feeds, and the earth it replenishes. God's way nothing goes to waste.

Funny thing about this... if I was selling a species of wood chips for a smoker, it would be applauded by everyone that liked it, but since it is sold as flux some think that it's some how a rip-off? ..:confused:




I love it how gun lovers really stick together. Umm fellas it's an advertisement. chill out.

Think we don't stick together at Cast Boolits? Let someone come here to cause trouble and watch what happens.. :mrgreen:


...

[Wayne Smith]

As I read this I have one consideration. All of the various suggestions are safe processes because each and every experienced reloader has developed safe processes that fit his or her situation. It's when only a part of one process is shown, without the safety checks, that we have a problem and have to think of how the inexperienced reloader will take it.

In this case loading straight sided pistol cases in a block and then checking them is perfectly safe and potentially safer if you have a pistol powder that bridges in your measure. A partial load from bridging won't be easily noticed if they are loaded one at a time. There is no visual comparison of how full the case is. If one case is a little short and the next is a little full it is unlikely to be noticed one case at a time. It will be noticed under a bright light.

I don't have any pistol powders that bridge in my measures, but do have rifle powders that do. That's why they are always brought up to weight by dribbling into the scale pan.

[carpetman]

Richbug---Thanks for your most manly publicly apologising---takes a big man to do that--something I lack. I almost jumped on your post and now glad I didnt as I'd be having to apologise. You are correct, Midway has been bashed ever since they quit including postage in their price--atleast I have bashed them and I'll tell you why. When Pooterfield (Midway CEO) made this change it was very short notice-all but unannounced. There was a roar. Pooterfield made an arrogant statement that it was his business and his right to make that decision. I have no problem with that--it is true and correct. Folks that had already sent him their money and the item was backordered were now charged postage. It was NOT the customers fault that Midway could not deliver what they had already agreed to do---but the customer was penalized. I don't know if that is legal or not,I'm no lawyer and don't play one on tv. I would guess it's switch and bait or something and he would have lost a class action suit????? Doesn't matter--it shows that he will prostitute his integrity over pennies. The postage never was free--it was included in the price. If they could sell at a profit before the change,I'm sure there was a profit already on the backordered items. Doesnt matter--Pooterfield should have eaten the loss if there was one. He will screw over you for pennies wonder what he would be like if dollars involved? Then to make matters worse,shortly after this he is posting pictures of himself going on safari. Sorta of arrogant like--I'll show you. Truth is those customers he screwed did pay for part of his trip---he had THEIR money and he should have paid for his not being able to deliver. That's the way I see it--if I'm wrong and he did have that right, atleast I have the right to buy someplace else which I have done ever since the change----use to buy a bunch from them. Hmmm dollars involved in their roundup for NRA.

[richbug]

Richbug---Thanks for your most manly publicly apologising---takes a big man to do that--something I lack. I almost jumped on your post and now glad I didnt as I'd be having to apologise. You are correct, Midway has been bashed ever since they quit including postage in their price--atleast I have bashed them and I'll tell you why. When Pooterfield (Midway CEO) made this change it was very short notice-all but unannounced. There was a roar. Pooterfield made an arrogant statement that it was his business and his right to make that decision. I have no problem with that--it is true and correct. Folks that had already sent him their money and the item was backordered were now charged postage. It was NOT the customers fault that Midway could not deliver what they had already agreed to do---but the customer was penalized. I don't know if that is legal or not,I'm no lawyer and don't play one on tv. I would guess it's switch and bait or something and he would have lost a class action suit????? Doesn't matter--it shows that he will prostitute his integrity over pennies. The postage never was free--it was included in the price. If they could sell at a profit before the change,I'm sure there was a profit already on the backordered items. Doesnt matter--Pooterfield should have eaten the loss if there was one. He will screw over you for pennies wonder what he would be like if dollars involved? Then to make matters worse,shortly after this he is posting pictures of himself going on safari. Sorta of arrogant like--I'll show you. Truth is those customers he screwed did pay for part of his trip---he had THEIR money and he should have paid for his not being able to deliver. That's the way I see it--if I'm wrong and he did have that right, atleast I have the right to buy someplace else which I have done ever since the change----use to buy a bunch from them. Hmmm dollars involved in their roundup for NRA.

I am not a lawyer, but did have a few years of business law in college, and worked in retail management for a number of years. It wasn't bait and switch, but breech of contract. Once they take your money they have accepted your offer to purchase them and all the terms in place at that time.

I too was screwed by them once via their BO program, and refuse to use it again. At the time you could order all the parts to build Ruger magazines for 1/3 the cost of a complete mag. I ordered the parts to build 25 or so assorted Ruger mags. 2 or 3 weeks later all the parts showed up except for the bodies. There was a note that the part number for the bodies had been discontinued.

So here I am with parts for a load of mags, and no bodies to put them in. A week or so later I realize that the bodies have a new part number, and cost 3-4 times as much now. You do the math...:(

[James C. Snodgrass]

Well to tell you the truth he does own it. And I would guess He has the right and the responsibility to make decisions regarding his business. It is definitely every individuals choice to do business with whom ever they choose. And as to integrity I have done business with them since 1984 and have not once felt they have gotten to me in any transaction. So like all the guys on the East side of the river say " Show Me". Where is it poor business or dishonest to keep a business afloat. James

[NSP64]

I used to order from them(midway) but since they are out of everything I don't anymore. This may be some new way to do business (Don't stock anything,just order what's on backorder when you get enough orders) but I don't do backorder. I will find some other place to go.

[376Steyr]

Back to sort of on-topic, what annoys me are ads showing people merrily loading away with no eye protection on. Worst offender I've seen so far was the cover of a powder manufacturer's give-away manual; Pa, Ma and Junior all mugging for the camera in front of a loading bench with not a pair of safety glasses in sight. I was surprised Pa wasn't smoking a pipe.

[leftiye]

Never had a double charge. Never had an empty loaded case (have had dud primers though). I throw 10 at a time, and then check the weight of the next one to be sure the powder measure hasn't changed (setting involves throwing at least 10 charges into the dish and weighing the 11th). When I'm through with the block, I shine a flashlight into the cases and check that all of the charge heights are the same. I'd be very nervous about throwing a full block. Weights in my RCBS measure (modified with baffle, etc) do change during throwing (even when throwing only 10), and I'd bet on the last charge being probly at least .2 grains heavier (probly more) than the first if you throw 50 charges without checking. Double tap at top of throw and double tap at end of throw - every tme.

That back order thang isn't pennies, it's TEN DOLLARS a throw for their shipping!

[DonH]

Never had a double charge. Never had an empty loaded case (have had dud primers though). I throw 10 at a time, and then check the weight of the next one to be sure the powder measure hasn't changed (setting involves throwing at least 10 charges into the dish and weighing the 11th). When I'm through with the block, I shine a flashlight into the cases and check that all of the charge heights are the same. I'd be very nervous about throwing a full block. Weights in my RCBS measure (modified with baffle, etc) do change during throwing (even when throwing only 10), and I'd bet on the last charge being probly at least .2 grains heavier (probly more) than the first if you throw 50 charges without checking. Double tap at top of throw and double tap at end of throw - every tme.

That back order thang isn't pennies, it's TEN DOLLARS a throw for their shipping!

I learned the method of charging a 50 round block at one from long time competition pistol shooters. It has always worked for me with the caveat that if I get distracted or something doesn't seem right I will dump all the charges back in the measure and start over. Then of course, I check them under a light. There has never been a safety issue because I don't think or assume - I make it a point to know for sure. That is all there is to it.

Regarding the RCBS powder measure, if the setting actually changes in that few rounds I would throw it away and get a different measure. I used a Uniflow for years and once sat and threw a min. of 100 charges each with several pistol ppowders checking consistency. Powders vary a lot in terms of how consistently they meter through the measure with Unique being the worst I worked with in my Uniflow (with pistol powders). There is always variation in charge weights but with the RCBS unit the variance was due to powder characteristics rather than a change in measure setting. Fred Sinclair once said the Uniflow rated with expensive benchrest measures in terms of consistently metering powder.

The method I learned for setting the measure for reduced charge pistol loads is to throw a few charges then throw 10 into the scale pan, weigh and take the average charge weight. The measure is adjusted until the avg weight = the desired charge wt. Note that I said reduced loads with fast powder. Due to the natural variation in weights from charge-to-charge I never throw full house charges in the manner described.

Regarding Midway, I have never felt ripped off by then so have no axe to grind. I have, however, dealt with shooters. Typically shooters want everything priced somewhere between free and the bargain-bin. I do understand this as most of us don't have unlimited budgets but to start a shooting related business and try to operate on a shooting-buddy basis is a quick route to insolvency!

[leftiye]

Don, I wasn't meaning to imply that the measure setting had slipped or changed. The issue here is the way the powder changed in metering and packing in the measure. It always got heavier as I went on. And shipping still costs about ten dollars per package. I can't afford that per item as they come in is all I was saying.

[PatMarlin]

One thing I've found with powder measures is when they start throwing inconsistent loads I clean.

I pull it apart, and clean it with alcohol. If it's real bad, like the last Redding I bought used, I polished the surfaces with 0000 steel wool also.

It was so bad it bridged powders like crazy when I bought it. The past owner probably never cleaned it, and thought it was time to pass it on.

After cleaning and polishing it threw beautifully.

[softpoint]

I've charged cases in a block for many years. Never a problem. I look in the block to see that all the cases are charged. I generally use a powder that cannot be double charged. I have caught 2 double charges over the years, both caused by 700X powder bridging in the measure: throwing no charge in one case and doubling the next. Now, you can double a charge like that even if you throw 'em one at a time, if you don't visually inspect. I used to have a public shooting range on my property and have seen a few overloads. The two guns I saw destroyed were by loading with a Dillon 550 and forgetting to index. I stand over my dillons and have a desk lamp positioned over them so I can look down in the cases as they come around. Get a safe routine, stick to it, and there will never be a problem:)

[MtGun44]

When I load 50 rds that are not on the 550Bs, I fill the whole block
from the measure, then inspect them with a good light. It is easy to
see missing or double charged cases. Very safe.

I'm kinda confused that some think this is a problem. Can't see why,
you can easily scan the whole bunch in a few seconds. Seems
like a really great way to ensure no empties and no doubles.

Ya'll be careful out there - whatever way you have decided is
best for you. And let's play nice, we are all friends and are on
the same team here. :drinks:

Bill

[chevyiron420]

i think distraction is the biggest problem however you choose to load. i have caught a few mistakes that i made, and every time there was a distraction of some kind. i have been doing alot of loading lately with my son, and he has questions now and then, and thats good, but i find i have to be real carefull and double check everything.-phil:castmine:

[The Double D]

One case at a time or a tray full at time neither way is bad.

The error-danger comes from not checking for double charge and no charge after filling cases no matter which way you do it. More often or not I have found cases not consistantly filled to the same level than double or no charge

[xtimberman]

Lots of good posts for both sides of the issue!

I've done it just like MtGun recently posted for decades and believe that it is the safest way for my own personal methodology.

Chevyiron's point about distraction is spot-on, too. IMO, there should be no radio and certainly no TV entertainment in the reloading area. Focus, focus, focus! My wife even knows not to disturb my count when I'm charging cases in the loading block.

If I have a ball game on the radio, my attention will always shift mostly to the game and I'll suddenly realize that I have performed several dozen loading tasks with the majority of my attention on something totally different. :???: :( I'll have to retrace every one of them or make the decision to pull a batch. :neutral:

xtm

[Three44s]

I still do business with Midway ........ buy mostly "on sale" items ........ hardly ever fall for the back order trap (because this incurrs another shipping charge).

Instead, I just do without or order another time when I can get that item(s) in with other stuff or from another vendor.

But back to the original post about Potterfield being on camera "block charging":

I agree whole heartedly that getting your mug on a camera for an ad while charging cases is bad business.

I understand that it was likely staged ........ but to any novice ....... it sends the wrong message ....... If good 'ole Larry can do it "this a way" ........... why I can stand on my head ...... it's easier than eating buttered pop corn.

He should have picked some other less onerous activity for the backdrop for his ad.

The fact of the matter ..... whether I am block charging straight wall handgun rounds or one at a time charging rifle rounds ........

..... UNDIVIDED ATTENTION ......... is the RULE!

Regards to all

Three 44s

[mainiac]

Dont see an issue here, been charging cases this way for years. tens of thousands, and never had a problem. When done, I inspect under a light, and ive never had a double charged one,nor an empty one. When one is using a powder measure,aint he supposed to be paying attention?