school me on resizing for 30-06.

[LAKEMASTER]

i did a search on here and found info i must not understand about re-sizing my 30cal bullets.

my rifle produced a 304/308 pound slug.

so lets say, i dont want to paperpatch,or do a coating, what sizing dia should i start with?

i found from a couple results with the search feature, that a lot of 30-06 rounds like 311.

my NOE mold and WW alloy is producing 311/311.5 bullets i still need to GC them so im stuck buying a die/press anyways.

anyone up to post a link with reference or point me in the right direction?

[Gofaaast]

Size them to .310 would be my recommendation.

[LAKEMASTER]

im not appose to having more then one sizing die i just want to know what is one end to start on and go where?

from the start ive thought 310 would be good......thankyou gofaaast

[LAKEMASTER]

someone has told me the smaller dia the less likely the chance to get lead fouling.

[LAKEMASTER]

lee doesnt sell a 310 die? am i being swindled? lol

[Gofaaast]

If you are confident in your .308 slug .309 should work ok though, and you could hone it out a little if needed. I don't use lee equipment so I didn't realize they don't offer a .310.

[OnHoPr]

You could hone or lap it a .309 a bit to .310.

[MT Chambers]

Most make .308, .309, .310, etc. esp. RCBS and Lyman, Star, etc. If Lee doesn't, you can do the lapping thing or go the custom route. Note that the Lubrisizers size and lube at the same time as well as seat and crimp the gc.

[1johnlb]

Which NOE mold are you using?

Most molds that I'm aware of, cast 311 on the bands, which are contained by the neck of the /06 when seated to just touch the lands. The .311 is more desirable in this manner to help fill in the neck area of the chamber, which helps center the case for a true to bore start of the projectile. This is not always possible for a auto loader, nor is it completely necessary, but I show better groups at 311.

The 304/308 reading your getting on assuming is land/bore size,. 311 on the bullet will be contained in the case neck. Your chamber spec will decide what size to size for it.

If your using a boreriding design like the 311299 your accuracy will suffer because the nose that rides the lands typically comes out the mold at .300, which in your case would be .004 undersized and the 314299 sized to 311 may be more in line with what you need. If I'm not mistaken the 314299 drops with a nose of .303 and your alloy can be adjusted for maximum size.

[dudel]

lee doesnt sell a 310 die? am i being swindled? lol

I had one made by Buckshot. He's a member here, and will make you a Lee style custom sizer. He does great work at a very good price.

[Moonie]

I have one in .309 and .311. For my 30-06 I use the .311, I have a 300AAC with a tight chamber that I used the .309 with until I started neck turning all the brass.

[Char-Gar]

You didn't tell us what kind of rifle you have other than the caliber. There have been millions of military and commercial rifles made in 30-06 caliber and they are not the same. But here are your starters.

1. The important dimension in your rifle IS NOT the barrel, but the chamber throat. That will always be larger than the rifling groove diameter and is where the bullet gets started into the rifling straight. So this is the only dimension that is important.

2. On a commercial rifles that has not been shot thousands of times, .310 will be a good place to start for you.

3. On a military rifle with it's looser chamber, .311 will be a good place to start for you.

4. On any rifle that has been shot extensively and has a worn throat, .312 might be what you need for best accuracy.

Your various tumble lubes have great utility for handgun rounds, but limited utility for rifle loads. They do just fine for plain base soft ball loades, but with a gas check and higher velocities, they will roll snake eyes.

[Char-Gar]

someone has told me the smaller dia the less likely the chance to get lead fouling.

You were told incorrectly.

[leadman]

To go along with what Char-Gar wrote you need to make sure the chamber throat is large enough to allow the size boolit you are using to be released easily. If you have a case fired in your gun measure the inside diameter of the throat and record it. This is the largest boolit diameter you can use safely.
Some guns have a larger bore than what the chamber will allow. My 71 Mauser has a .457" to .458" bore with the chamber allowing only a .450" boolit.

[LAKEMASTER]

ok i gotcha, i have a few.

FWIW, the 311 rounds slip into some shot brass that have been through my gun.. with little effort if any...

[LAKEMASTER]

You didn't tell us what kind of rifle you have other than the caliber. There have been millions of military and commercial rifles made in 30-06 caliber and they are not the same. But here are your starters.

1. The important dimension in your rifle IS NOT the barrel, but the chamber throat. That will always be larger than the rifling groove diameter and is where the bullet gets started into the rifling straight. So this is the only dimension that is important.

2. On a commercial rifles that has not been shot thousands of times, .310 will be a good place to start for you.

3. On a military rifle with it's looser chamber, .311 will be a good place to start for you.

4. On any rifle that has been shot extensively and has a worn throat, .312 might be what you need for best accuracy.

Your various tumble lubes have great utility for handgun rounds, but limited utility for rifle loads. They do just fine for plain base soft ball loades, but with a gas check and higher velocities, they will roll snake eyes.

i have a 1952 760 gamemaster. pump-action 3006.

[Char-Gar]

i have a 1952 760 gamemaster. pump-action 3006.

.310 then it is.

[LAKEMASTER]

.310 then it is.

does the fact i can slip 311 dia bullets into my shot brass play any factor in this or ?

[1johnlb]

Here's a good read and a good link on post 11, that may shed some light.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?168496-Chamber-and-throat-relationship

[1johnlb]

does the fact i can slip 311 dia bullets into my shot brass play any factor in this or ?


It does in my opinion, but because your shooting a pump and looking to use a Lee push thru I would get the 309. If your to tight in the neck and chamber you may run into chambering issues.

[LAKEMASTER]

If I did a pound mold of the chamber wouldn't this solve my mystery and let me sound more intelligent when asking questions? Lol

[Yodogsandman]

If I did a pound mold of the chamber wouldn't this solve my mystery and let me sound more intelligent when asking questions? Lol

Yes, it would. It's not an infallible system, though. I did that pound cast of the chamber twice with my 7.62x51 and twice it showed a .310" chamber size. I shot thousands of rounds with it sized .310" with just so-so results.

Recently, I checked the size of the fired rounds cases and found that the inside of the case neck was expanded out to .314". Now, sizing boolits to .314" has given much better accuracy results.

The rear bands steer your boolit into the bore. The better you can fit that band size to your chamber (with just a little slop .0005" or so) allows it to enter straight into the throat and bore. In your case, an inside case neck diameter of .311" on a case fired in your rifle would tell me to start at .311".

You don't say which bullet mold you're using. A bore rider design should have a nose diameter, that when chambered, should show just a light scuffing on the nose, from the lands, for a good fit. The longer the scuff marks all around, the better accuracy can be expected. There's a limit, though. You don't want to force the nose so hard into the lands, that to extract the round, the boolit gets stuck in the bore.

Lots of guys are trying Ben's Liquid Lube at high velocities and liking it. I've tested it to about 2500 FPS in that 7.62x51 (.308) with great results. I used three light coats.

I would guess that your 304/308" dims were because of cleaning from the muzzle end.

[1johnlb]

Yodogs, I ran into the same issue with a 7.62x51 Issy Enfield. I had almost given up on it until I tried the same thing, 314 just slipped in, now instead of just being glad it stayed on the target, it's knocking out the bull.

[Char-Gar]

Guys, you are circling the issue, but have not quite hit the target. Let me add the following.

1. If you want to pound lead into your rifle chamber, you are not looking for the size of the chamber which would include the neck. You are looking for the diameter of the throat/leade/ball seat which is the breech end of the barrel just AHEAD of the chamber. This is the part that has no rifling and introduce the bullet into the chamber hopefully straight.

A cast bullets that is the same size as this throat/leade/ball seat/freebore has the best chance of flying straight. When cast bullets are smaller, the risk of the bullet hitting the rifling at an angle, even though slight, increases with a resulting downgrade in accuracy.

The closer a cast bullet is to the actual throat size, without being larger is the goal for best accuracy.

2. Measuring the inside of a fired case neck can provide some information, but that is limited. Case necks vary considerably in thickness from make to make, vintage to vintage and with use. A good tubing micrometer will educate a fellow pretty quick on this variation. This variation is enough (.001 to .0005) to really throw things off, especially when you consider this variation is all the around the case, reducing the ID several times over the initial variation measurement taken in one place.

Measuring the inside of a fired case neck does not tell you what bullets will best fit the throat/leade/ball seat/freebore. It will however tell you how big a bullet you can use in this make and vintage of case, in this rifle, without causing hard cambering of the round or higher pressure resulting from the cast not being able to expand and let go of the bullet.

Measuring the ID of the fired case, while it can be helpful will not tell you the diameter of the throat/leade/ball seat/free bore which is the critical dimension for best accuracy.

A case in point are Krag rifles. These have large throats and often will require a cast bullet of .313, .314 or even .315 for best accuracy. However the size of the chamber neck in any of my Krag rifles won't allow me to seat bullets larger than .313 without difficulties. The solution is to neck turn the cases to thin them, which allow a bullet which fits the throat to be used.

I am not trying to be arrogant, just helpful. I am reluctant to include this much detail in my posts, but as you guys were homing in on the target, I thought it might be helpful.

[Yodogsandman]

Char-Gar, You're right of course and did not come across as arrogant at all. My wording was a failed attempt to "keep it simple" and could have been interpreted wrong. The throat ahead of the chamber neck is the dimension that a boolit needs to be sized to, as close to as possible, minus about .0005". Depending on the brass used, neck turning might be required to thin the neck walls of thick brass to be safe for boolit release. Thanks for the correction.

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar, You're right of course and did not come across as arrogant at all. My wording was a failed attempt to "keep it simple" and could have been interpreted wrong. The throat ahead of the chamber neck is the dimension that a boolit needs to be sized to, as close to as possible, minus about .0005". Depending on the brass used, neck turning might be required to thin the neck walls of thick brass to be safe for boolit release. Thanks for the correction.

Not a correction my friend, just an amplification and expansion.

[LAKEMASTER]

i think where some of my concern comes from is simply being blown up from a wrong bullet diameter. so i ordered a lee 309 die, if i re-size these rounds and they chamber correctly, is there any possibility ill explode myself( because of bullet dia) due to using a 311 bullet?

if finding out this magic number is simply trial and error then ill do what the gun says... but all my questioning about resizing is basically about making sure i dont explode.

CHAR-GAR is unbelievably helpful and seems like hell forget more then ill ever know.

[Char-Gar]

i think where some of my concern comes from is simply being blown up from a wrong bullet diameter. so i ordered a lee 309 die, if i re-size these rounds and they chamber correctly, is there any possibility ill explode myself( because of bullet dia) due to using a 311 bullet?

if finding out this magic number is simply trial and error then ill do what the gun says... but all my questioning about resizing is basically about making sure i dont explode.

CHAR-GAR is unbelievably helpful and seems like hell forget more then ill ever know.

Nothing bad will happen to you or the rifle switching from .309 to .311.