what the????????? HELP

[sergeant69]

son has a brand new M&P 40 cal. needs to be shot so i cranked up the 1050 and spit out 5 boxes of 165 gr. lead truncated cone over 5.7 gr. unique. feeds great and is a mild accurate load in my older M&P 40 cal. in HIS though, it MANGLES the new STARLINE brass and ejects over his left shoulder. never seen THAT before. will try to post pics. just installed Windows 10 and am learning it. any serious observations/advice appreciated.

[country gent]

May be a timing issue with the extractor.

[RED333]

Looks like the spent case is hitting the mag as it is pulled from the chamber, check the rim for marks on the back side of the rim.

[triggerhappy243]

it's a smith and wesson.

[Harter66]

I had this brand new AR........ apples/oranges.

The 1st 10 rounds looked like they had been rolling aron in a creek bottom for the whole spring. The rims were barked by the extractor, the mouths were dinged on 2 sides ,if it weren't weren't that it was factory ammo in an 6.8 SPCII chamber I'd have guessed it was hot loaded . Oh I almost forgot about the bead blasted look of the body of the case . Now nearing 100 rounds it is beginning to settle down .
I would venture that is what you have happening in your sons pistol . I had a new XD 40 thinking back it was a little wild for the 1st few rounds also but the 1st 200 were all 165 gr fmj factory ammo .

I think it is most likely a run in issue with a brand new gun . It may have some minor design change or fitting changes from the older gun that changes its ejection also . Think tolerance stacking and getting all small/tight parts vs getting the big loose end of the assembly. Like Lee moulds our new guns lack the final polish unless you pay for the extra lap and polish it's going to take a couple of hundred cycles to knock the fuzz off and make it slick.

[triggerhappy243]

those look like failure to eject. is he holding it limp wristed or hanging on to it for dear life?

[sergeant69]

Looks like the spent case is hitting the mag as it is pulled from the chamber, check the rim for marks on the back side of the rim.
no marks found

[sergeant69]

it's a smith and wesson.

i went to high school in albuq. so i understand sub par mentality you exhibit.

[sergeant69]

I had this brand new AR........ apples/oranges.

The 1st 10 rounds looked like they had been rolling aron in a creek bottom for the whole spring. The rims were barked by the extractor, the mouths were dinged on 2 sides ,if it weren't weren't that it was factory ammo in an 6.8 SPCII chamber I'd have guessed it was hot loaded . Oh I almost forgot about the bead blasted look of the body of the case . Now nearing 100 rounds it is beginning to settle down .
I would venture that is what you have happening in your sons pistol . I had a new XD 40 thinking back it was a little wild for the 1st few rounds also but the 1st 200 were all 165 gr fmj factory ammo .

I think it is most likely a run in issue with a brand new gun . It may have some minor design change or fitting changes from the older gun that changes its ejection also . Think tolerance stacking and getting all small/tight parts vs getting the big loose end of the assembly. Like Lee moulds our new guns lack the final polish unless you pay for the extra lap and polish it's going to take a couple of hundred cycles to knock the fuzz off and make it slick.

yep. my custom 1911 took about 400 rds to train but my kimber contra has had nothing but lead reloads fed to it and has yet to hiccup.

[sergeant69]

i went to high school in albuq. so i understand sub par mentality you exhibit.
that was uncalled for. i apologize. i know you can't help it. and before you ask, MENAUL. in the 60s.

[triggerhappy243]

LOL, I was in the first group of kids/teens in the APD police athletic league pistol team. only one dared possessing a S&W, his name was Bart. we used to razz him all the time about his Mod, 19 He was the only one in the group to have an accidental discharge at the indoor range.

[triggerhappy243]

and if I remember correctly.... it was a pimp polished nickle finish.

[sergeant69]

that was the first of many that i carried while w/the El Paso SO, a mod 19. but blued. wish i still had it.

[mdi]

Looks like the spent case is hitting the mag as it is pulled from the chamber, check the rim for marks on the back side of the rim.
How does the case mouth hit the magazine as it's extracted/ejected? I think I would run a few dummies through the action as it looks like the cases are "caught" of something as it feeds, or is banged by the bolt as it ejects. Light loads not moving bolt bask far enough to clear the empty and slamming the empty against the bbl. or frame. Is the brass being fully ejected? Hmmm ???

[Gohon]

What happens when the last round is ejected? In other words, if you load one round in the chamber with nothing in the magazine and fire the round is the ejected shell still mangled?

[SSGOldfart]

Yep my S &W 40 did the same thing, A little polishing on the ramp took care of the problem seems like it was cocking the rounds as they were picked up from the magazine then bouncing off the feed ramp causing them to dent both sides of the case ,I would also look at the lip on your magazine to see if it's been bent in? That would put more pressure on the rounds coming out
I did change magazines too

[Gohon]

I don't see how those dents can be caused before the round is chambered and fired. As serious as they are, those dents have to be caused after the round is fired and during ejection.....not before.

[tunnug]

Those shells are getting caught at the ejection port by the slide, I'll bet that if you hold one against the front part of the slide port the dents will match right up.
I had a Springfield .45 that did the same thing, I had downloaded some rounds and the spring would send the slide back faster than the rounds were ejected and would get damaged on the way out, I figured it out when one shell finally got stuck in place, I raised the powder load and it solve the problem.
Your gun being older probably has a weaker/weakened spring so the slide comes back slower, your sons new gun has a strong spring moving the slide faster.

[sergeant69]

i can't try the one rd. in the chamber w/an empty mag as the gun is 3 hours away. yes the rd. are being fully ejected but to the LEFT and back and not very far. testing was extremely limited as it during a family reunion and we barely had time to sneak away before the kids saw us to fire a few rds. off the dock into the river. we should of started earlier but they wanted jeep rides, wanted to swim in the river etc etc. i am leaning real hard towards a new rough action and light loads being the culprit.

[RED333]

How does the case mouth hit the magazine as it's extracted/ejected? I think I would run a few dummies through the action as it looks like the cases are "caught" of something as it feeds, or is banged by the bolt as it ejects. Light loads not moving bolt bask far enough to clear the empty and slamming the empty against the bbl. or frame. Is the brass being fully ejected? Hmmm ???
My thinking the case is hitting the mag lips, getting pushed up and slide is hitting the case mouth.

[leeggen]

My vote is to up the charge slightly. My 40 S&W did the same thing when I downloaded to low. I liked the low recoil but the gun did not like the load. I think Tunnug was correct.
CD

[bruce381]

""not very far"' as far as a 45ACP goes that is symptom of low charge low pressure not ejecting very far. Up the laod a bit.

[dudel]

Wow! I can't see that happening during feeding (since the boolit is in place), so I'm guessing it happens during extraction. It seems like a mild load. Does the slide lock back at the end of a mag? If not, I'm guessing that the slide is not going ALL the way back, and since it's taking a short trip on the rails, it's on the return and smacking the spent round as it's ejecting. The slide hitting the bottom of the brass, could get it to tumble over the shoulder.

I'd try bumping the charge. I can see a mild round and new springs (you did mention it was a new M&P) doing this.

Good luck. Difficult to diagnose from afar. Let us know what you find out.

[mdi]

Missed it if it was mentioned but, how does factory ammo preform?

[sergeant69]

Missed it if it was mentioned but, how does factory ammo preform?

this will be answered in the future when and if it happens. the truth? for years now i can't bring myself to buy/shoot factory ammo. it would be like voting democrat. unthinkable. HOWEVER...for purposes of solving this dilemma, its gonna have to be done. shooting factory for scientific purposes that is. son is a small contractor and lives in an area that has been hit hard w/recent flooding and is having to rent heavy duty earth moving equipment and having to use it 7 days a weeks 12 hours a day so his interest/time aren't there (shooting) right now. just called him....he has shot 2 mags of factory 180 gr gold dots w/no problems. i am sure i just didn't load the rds. hot enough for a new pistol. got in 2 16 lbs. jugs of unique recently and here i am being chinzy w/the stuff. this after loading him 1000 rds of 45acp for his commander last month w/no thought of the powder used. my mind set was that the 40 cal ammo was only going to be used as break in ammo so why use any more than i had to. the GOOD thing is that the 5 boxes i low loaded were using **** range brass. i told him to s*&t can it when he fired it. the ones in the pic were starline brass i was loading for me. sure wish he would of left the pistol w/me. but you know how it is w/a new toy! appreciate all the responses!!

[mdi]

Yep, been there. In the last 20 years I've purchased less than 6 boxes of ammo, to get some brass quickly, to try a brand new gun that I have no reloads for, and when troubleshooting a problem...

[Cherokee]

I've had that happen with 1911 45 ACP...case was being caught in the ejetion port by the slide. Higher powder chage made the difference. It's all about timing.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Those shells are getting caught at the ejection port by the slide, I'll bet that if you hold one against the front part of the slide port the dents will match right up.
I had a Springfield .45 that did the same thing, I had downloaded some rounds and the spring would send the slide back faster than the rounds were ejected and would get damaged on the way out, I figured it out when one shell finally got stuck in place, I raised the powder load and it solve the problem.
Your gun being older probably has a weaker/weakened spring so the slide comes back slower, your sons new gun has a strong spring moving the slide faster.

+1 to this. I had a Kimber 1911 that made some really ugly brass the first time I ever reloaded for it. Factory ammo was fine, so I knew it had to be my loads. My first test load was on the low end of the spectrum. 0.5gr more of my powder and the gun functioned flawlessly with no chewed up brass. If you have room in your load to up the powder a little safely I would try that.