What should you call REAL black powder?

[milrifle]

I stop in a lot of gun stores, especially when out of town and see one I've not visited before. Since I have recently gotten interested in black powder, I look in these stores for black powder. I never see any, so I ask if they have any. I am always directed to the Pyrodex or Triple Seven. So then I say "Do you have any REAL black powder? So the other day, I'm out of town. I go in this gun store. After seeing nothing but substitutes on the shelf, I ask "Do you have any real black powder?" The group of guys all point directly at the substitutes. I say "No, I mean REAL black powder", to which they finally tell me no. Then I hear them talking behind my back about saying "REAL". It kinda pissed me off, but I didn't say anything. Not worth it. First off, why do so many people not seem to draw any distinction between black powder and black powder substitutes? They know there is a difference, when pressed on the subject, but I always seem to have to make the distinction for them. And secondly, how do you ask so they know what you mean the first time without having to explain yourself?

[Gunlaker]

It's been my experience that most people working in gun stores only think they know a lot about guns. Several years ago I asked at a store reputed to carry real black powder and was told they only had Pyrodex. The fellow asked me what I wanted it for. I said for my .45-70. His reply was "black powder in a .45-70!?!, are you sure? Be careful man!"

I haven't been there since.

Chris.

[country gent]

I ask for black powder by name and granulation in shops. Goex, old enforde, swiss in granulation 1 1/2 3 or very occassionaly 3. Have had several slaesmen run over to the powder rack rumaging thru the pyrodex triple 7 and others. But but asking for exactly what you want cuts down alot on the confusion. Those salesman hear the subs refered to as black all the time buy customers too.

[rfd]

diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. i try to politely educate firearms vendors who don't have a clue about real black powder versus the subs and white powder. if they come off with an attitude, they don't get my business, their call.

[rr2241tx]

Around here getting Holy Black is strictly a mailorder proposition. It was fire code that nailed the coffin shut. LGS can store their subs along with their smokeless but Holy Black has to be stored in a manner that precludes really secure storage for most retailers. Couple that with limited demand and it's a non-starter.

[Ed in North Texas]

Around here getting Holy Black is strictly a mailorder proposition. It was fire code that nailed the coffin shut. LGS can store their subs along with their smokeless but Holy Black has to be stored in a manner that precludes really secure storage for most retailers. Couple that with limited demand and it's a non-starter.

True, but not only local (or state) fire codes, but BATFE requirements for storage and a license for a shop selling. The license isn't hard to get, but is a paperwork hassle.

[marlin39a]

I was set up at a gun show last weekend across from a Cowboy action group. All these folks were in costume, wearing sixguns. I asked if they knew any place in Arizona that stocked black powder. I got hit with the Pyrodex, Shockeys, and other substitute speech. I insisted I only use real black powder. They were all clueless.

[milrifle]

The only place I have found any black powder is Bass Pro in Savannah, which is about 75 miles away. Not a big deal, as we are in Savannah regularly, but all they have is Goex. There is a Cabella's in Augusta, which about 100 miles away. Next time I am there, I will check with them. Small locally owned gun stores? Haven't found one that carries it yet.

[rfd]

mail order works just fine. yes, there will be shipping and hazmat fees but will also typically be tax free. for me, it's totally worth it as no sub can compare to swiss 1-1/2f for my bpcr rifles and swiss 3f for my muzzleloaders. ymmv.

to beat the shipping and hazmat fees, most online bp sales offer a bulk 25# rate with no fees at all ... can you say "group buy"? :)

[Knarley]

I feel your pain, brother, I really do. BUT.................it usually ends up in a good conversation about cowboy action shooting, and they do get a good education about black & the subs.
I have even talked the place I buy my black powder to get the brand I prefer!
I use both, subs & black, and am willing to talk about either or both. I also have quite a bit of smokeless in my powder magazine, so what the heck.

Regards,
Knarley

[Avenger442]

I'm new with the black powder use. In fact, I haven't shot any yet. I have a question, does anyone just make their own? Found a site skylighter.com that has directions, equip and chemicals. Also you can buy the chemicals off of eBay. So is anyone here rolling their own?

[waksupi]

I'm new with the black powder use. In fact, I haven't shot any yet. I have a question, does anyone just make their own? Found a site skylighter.com that has directions, equip and chemicals. Also you can buy the chemicals off of eBay. So is anyone here rolling their own?

Do a search here, there are a couple LOOOOOONNNNNG threads on how to do it.

[zarrinvz24]

It's been my experience that most people working in gun stores only think they know a lot about guns. Several years ago I asked at a store reputed to carry real black powder and was told they only had Pyrodex. The fellow asked me what I wanted it for. I said for my .45-70. His reply was "black powder in a .45-70!?!, are you sure? Be careful man!"

I haven't been there since.

Chris.


Reminds me of a local gunshop here; around 2009 I was looking for one of the 460 S&W XVR revolvers. I asked the guy behind the counter if there anything in 460 was in stock. He looked very confused and told me that 460S&W is not a real cartridge, then asked me if I was just making up numbers. I kindly directed him to google the "460S&W" when he had a few moments and then left. While I have been back I make sure that I only talk to the owner and steer clear of the counter jockeys.

[Jeff Michel]

Try Track of the Wolf, get a couple of your friends involved and get a case. They use to permit mixing of granulations

[oldred]

When I first started shooting Black I drove about 55 miles to get it at $18/lb pus tax but some of the BP affectionados here kept harping on mail order and the fact that in even small quantities it's about as cheap per pound and a LOT less hassle to just order the stuff shipped to my door. Well I listened and I'm very happy that I did, I quickly figured out that a pound of BP won't last long at all if you intend to have any real fun and with the big rifle calibers even causal shooting eats it up really fast! The bottom line is that if you order just 5 lbs you will likely meet or beat the price of buying locally and when you figure in the gas if you have to make a special drive to get it then it's quite likely to be even cheaper that way. Now I know a lot of folks may not want to lay out that much for powder at one time but in the end it really is cheaper and if several can get together and order a bigger shipment then it becomes even cheaper still, 5 lbs of powder just don't cost all that much and 1 lb just doesn't last very long!

[Avenger442]

powdered Potassium Nitrate 75% + powdered Charcoal (hardwood or pine no briquett)15% + powdered Sulfur 10% hogeniously mixed with a little red gum (not the chewing kind) and you have black powder.

I started reloading to learn how to make my own custom rounds. I started casting because I started hand loading and wanted to make my own bullet. I started making gas checks because I started hand loading and casting and wanted to go fast. Now I'm looking at making my own charge for those rounds with black powder. Because it's hard to get or cost me hazmat fee (is that $25 or $30?) or both. Seems to be an endless learning curve. Where does it end? ����:bigsmyl2:

[bedbugbilly]

I haven't found a LGS that carries "real black powder" in quite a few years. And, like the OP . . . I often get pointed to the Pyrodex and other substitutes . . . sometimes with an "attitude" and other times, not. You have to remember that a lot of the younger "BP hunters" are using the inlines and substitutes so they can hunt another season besides the normal season. Plus, a lot o shops don't like the hassle of the rules/regulations for stocking real BP.

I usually used to stock up when I went to the N-SSA Nationals or the NMLRA Nationals. If you know someone who is going to either . . you can make arrangements for them to buy you some. Fortunately, I still have a small stock of it to meet my needs but when that gets low - I'm shooting more BP pistol cartridge which is eating it up . . . I'll have to do the same as far as finding it.

When I was a kid it was nice as there was a one man gunsmith shop that carried it a few miles away. The older gentleman was in his mid eighties . . he's the one who taught me a lot about shooting front stuffers. I can well remember buying a lb. of 3 or 4 F from him . . . at 75 cents a pound for DuPont. A tine of Remington caps was 25 cents. Obviously that was many years ago . . . . like 50 or so . . . but I sure miss those days when we didn't have all the "guvment regulations" that there is today . . . but then we drank from garden hoses, walked barefoot through the barnyard and had "wars" with road apples too . . . how did we ever survive? :-)

I hate going to LGS where the clerks are "experts" . . . and usually don't have the experience to know what they think they know. I normally go to a LGS that's been in business for many, many years. There are a number of fellows who work there who shoot, re-load and actually have "experience" . . . but it's always a two way street . . . we learn a lot from each other.

[rfd]

if you have access to the proper ingredients you sure can make real black powder it's relatively easy but dangerous if yer careless. how effectively consistent it will be is a whole 'nother thing, and if bpcr accuracy is yer game you will more than likely be at a competitive disadvantage.

yes, real bp has for the very most part been relegated to mail order and i can't see any major problem with that at all ... other than yep, gonna cost some more bucks *IF* you don't buy in quantity or can't find enuf folks to do a group buy. that's all there is to that and ymmv does not apply.

[Avenger442]

[QUOTE=rfd;3357744]if you have access to the proper ingredients you sure can make real black powder it's relatively easy but dangerous if yer careless. how effectively consistent it will be is a whole 'nother thing, and if bpcr accuracy is yer game you will more than likely be at a competitive disadvantage.

So sounds like I have to learn to do another thing well. Developing loads, casting.........all was something I had to learn how to do well. Should have said still learning.

Next making cases, primer and caps. Then I'm through.:kidding:

[MT Chambers]

I was set up at a gun show last weekend across from a Cowboy action group. All these folks were in costume, wearing sixguns. I asked if they knew any place in Arizona that stocked black powder. I got hit with the Pyrodex, Shockeys, and other substitute speech. I insisted I only use real black powder. They were all clueless.
In Arizona i get my BP from Thunderbird in Laverne( West Phoenix),. it's pyrodex....just kidding!!!!!! It's the real thing!!

[Lead pot]

For me to just get one can of black is just enough to load for one day at the range.
I have a hard time keeping my lead and tin supply up more then powder.

[rfd]

i don't get to shoot bpcr as much as i should and would like, so i'm only going through a tad over 25# of swiss 1-1/2f per year. the good part (for me) is that's what it takes (25#) to qualify for no shipping or hazmat fees when i order from mainepowderhouse ... so far, a $575/year habit that i'm hoping will get worse. :)

[oldred]

Where does it end? ����:bigsmyl2:


End??? END?????? :???:

[cajun shooter]

Keep your fingers crossed and ask the spirits in the sky to keep it going till the end of time. Life without BP would not be life at all!!!!

[montana_charlie]

The fellow asked me what I wanted it for. I said for my .45-70. His reply was "black powder in a .45-70!?!, are you sure? Be careful man!"
Should have asked him what the '70' means in 45/70.

[dtknowles]

mail order works just fine. yes, there will be shipping and hazmat fees but will also typically be tax free. for me, it's totally worth it as no sub can compare to swiss 1-1/2f for my bpcr rifles and swiss 3f for my muzzleloaders. ymmv.

to beat the shipping and hazmat fees, most online bp sales offer a bulk 25# rate with no fees at all ... can you say "group buy"? :)

Not tax free here in Louisiana, some sellers are in state and if out of state you pay the sales tax on your state income tax form.

Tim

[quickdraw66]

I buy my real stuff from Grafs, usually along with a few thousand primers. There's not a single place anywhere near here that carries real black powder.

[ShooterAZ]

I buy my real stuff from Grafs, usually along with a few thousand primers. There's not a single place anywhere near here that carries real black powder.

Same here, mail order only. I need to start thinking about putting together another order soon...getting low on the Holy Black.

[cajun shooter]

Jerry's Inc. in Arkansas is my first place to purchase from and he does not charge me any tax as I live in Louisiana. His service is first rate and he is a nice guy to buy from. Graf's in Missouri is another good BP dealer that carries a nice line of BP. Ordering from these dealers makes it a no hassle deal as you never leave your home. The prices shown are the TYD price. Later David

[Fly]

Do as I, make your own. Less than $3 lb & as fast as Swiss.

Fly

[dtknowles]

Jerry's Inc. in Arkansas is my first place to purchase from and he does not charge me any tax as I live in Louisiana. His service is first rate and he is a nice guy to buy from. Graf's in Missouri is another good BP dealer that carries a nice line of BP. Ordering from these dealers makes it a no hassle deal as you never leave your home. The prices shown are the TYD price. Later David

You know that you are supposed to pay the sales tax on your State Income tax form.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

You know that you are supposed to pay the sales tax on your State Income tax form.

Tim

Do you really do that? Just asking because PA has the same regulation. No one enters online purchases on their tax forms. Most businesses duck this as well. Only place I buy from online is Amazon and they charge the sales tax already.

[aarolar]

The only place I have found any black powder is Bass Pro in Savannah, which is about 75 miles away. Not a big deal, as we are in Savannah regularly, but all they have is Goex. There is a Cabella's in Augusta, which about 100 miles away. Next time I am there, I will check with them. Small locally owned gun stores? Haven't found one that carries it yet.
Dont waste your time they dont carry any.

[dtknowles]

Do you really do that? Just asking because PA has the same regulation. No one enters online purchases on their tax forms. Most businesses duck this as well. Only place I buy from online is Amazon and they charge the sales tax already.

Yes, I do. How do you know that nobody does this? Yeah, I know, my friends are tax cheats too and not just the sales tax. Many people have low moral standards. Why would I cheat on my taxes? How much would a person owe, maybe another $100. I mostly don't buy online and it is often Amazon so the taxes there are paid like you said but sometimes I might make a purchase elsewhere. A bigger item I have to include on my taxes, not in the last few years but farther back, was sales of found brass. I sold a lot of brass that I picked up at the range, that was pure profit and had to be included on Federal taxes and thus to the State as well. I know some good people who cheat, I don't get it. Is money really that short or is it something else, I think it is just greed and that is evil. It is sad when good people do evil things.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

Call it an unofficial poll in social situations. When PA started enforcing that online retailers charge state sales tax if they have a physical presence here I started asking everyone. People either laughed or said they didn't know they were supposed to report it. Many said their accountants told them not to worry about reporting it. My job puts me in a lot of businesses so of course I asked them as well. Same response. The majority of people, that I talked to, just didn't care about reporting it. I won't derail the thread any further.

[montana_charlie]

You know that you are supposed to pay the sales tax on your State Income tax form.
Do you really do that?
Yes, I do.
My respects, Sir.

CM

[dtknowles]

My respects, Sir.

CM

Thank you. I am sorry for calling people who don't pay this tax greedy, maybe some just don't know or are really that stretched financially that they need every penny. I have mentioned before, it might be easier for me to pay this tax, it is a pittance compared to what I pay every year. I have also mentioned that I return found money if I can. I don't give to panhandlers but that is different.

I pay what I owe and returned found money because I make way more than I spend, I have much and don't need much more. I also believe in a form of "Karma" that says that if I do right with things good things will happen for me. If someone is getting the wrong idea, don't bother asking me for anything, I don't like beggars. I will give to those I choose not those who choose me.

I can't promise if you practice this kind of "Karma" that riches will flow to you but you will still know that you did the right thing. If my family had very little and I found a twenty, I would keep it and use it to help with the bills and thank God and hope it was a Karmatic return.

Last year right before Christmas I lost my wedding band. I hoped that it did not come off when I was drying my hands with a paper towel in the men's room at work (that is what I was doing when I noticed it gone) and since I did not find it (I searched the trash) I hoped that maybe someone poor found it and used it to buy Christmas presents for their kids. I found the ring a couple months ago on the floor in my garage. My wife had already bought me a replacement.

Sorry for the ramble.

Tim

[Avenger442]

I'm new to the black powder shooting. What are the main differences and disadvantages/advantages of using a black powder substitute.

[dragon813gt]

I'm kind of partial to the term "Holy Smoke". :)

I thought it was called "Holy Black"?

[montana_charlie]

I thought it was called "Holy Black"?
Yeah ... Holy Black makes Holy Smoke.

And, by the way ...

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/Troll.jpg

[dragon813gt]

And, by the way ...

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/Troll.jpg
I didn't see Wilco posting in this thread.

[quickdraw66]

Taxes and morals? LMAO!!!!

148031

[montana_charlie]

I didn't see Wilco posting in this thread.
As it happens, you may be right ...

[dromia]

As god is no longer with us perhaps this thread could get back on topic.

[oldred]

Thanks to the mods, I and I am sure a LOT of others here greatly appreciate that.

[Avenger442]

So back to my previous question.
I'm new to the black powder shooting. What are the main differences and disadvantages/advantages of using a black powder substitute?

[country gent]

One thing Ive noticed with subs is the fouling seems harder and as or more corrosive than black powders. Soap and water, windex with vinegar, I have been using windex multi surface also netralizes and washes black powder fouling out quick and easy. Some of the subs Ive used Show corrosion a couple days after a thourgh cleaning even. A lot use smokeless "duplication" loads instead of the subs also. I light smokless charge to give the same velocity and pressure as black powder can work out well also

[oldred]

My question would be why do you want to use a sub? If for a cap&ball pistol or non cartridge firearm then light smokeless loads would not be a choice and a sub makes sense but if it's for an old original BP cartridge gun of questionable strength even some of the subs are more powerful than BP so real BP is a much better and safer choice even for those. Some BP cartridge guns such as the Trapdoor rifles have been loaded and shot with smokeless loads for many years so even some of the older originals would be safe with the proper smokeless load, point being a low pressure smokeless load is often a better choice than any of the subs in cartridges due to the fact it can be loaded to BP pressures with none of the problems of obtaining it or the fouling and corrosion associated with either a sub or BP. If the goal is "for the BP experience" then sorry you just won't get that with a sub! The subs look, load, shoot and even smell different so they are neither like shooting smokeless or real BP.

[quickdraw66]

My question would be why do you want to use a sub? If for a cap&ball pistol or non cartridge firearm then light smokeless loads would not be a choice and a sub makes sense but if it's for an old original BP cartridge gun of questionable strength even some of the subs are more powerful than BP so real BP is a much better and safer choice even for those. Some BP cartridge guns such as the Trapdoor rifles have been loaded and shot with smokeless loads for many years so even some of the older originals would be safe with the proper smokeless load, point being a low pressure smokeless load is often a better choice than any of the subs in cartridges due to the fact it can be loaded to BP pressures with none of the problems of obtaining it or the fouling and corrosion associated with either a sub or BP. If the goal is "for the BP experience" then sorry you just won't get that with a sub! The subs look, load, shoot and even smell different so they are neither like shooting smokeless or real BP.

There's nothing wrong with using a sub if that's all you can get. If you don't use a lot of black powder, and the real stuff has to be mail ordered (only reasonable if you order a few pounds to make up for the outrageous shipping), then that $20 can of Pyrodex from Walmart will do. Some of the subs like Triple 7 are more powerful than real black powder, some are about the same. You just have to take care as to which one you use in your particular gun and adjust accordingly.

I don't understand why people don't get that some people just prefer subs. There's nothing wrong with using black powder, smokeless, or subs. To each their own.

[rfd]

having used bp and subs (pyrodex and 777) for both cartridge rifles and muzzleloaders, if i had a choice (as understandably some folks might not) bp all the way. bp, particularly really good bp, burns cleaner with lots less fouling and is more consistent and that shows in the chronographed sd's. yep, the good holy black is just better ... for me, maybe not for you, it's all good, enjoy!

[oldred]

There's nothing wrong with using a sub if that's all you can get. If you don't use a lot of black powder, and the real stuff has to be mail ordered (only reasonable if you order a few pounds to make up for the outrageous shipping), then that $20 can of Pyrodex from Walmart will do. Some of the subs like Triple 7 are more powerful than real black powder, some are about the same. You just have to take care as to which one you use in your particular gun and adjust accordingly.

I don't understand why people don't get that some people just prefer subs. There's nothing wrong with using black powder, smokeless, or subs. To each their own.

You are totally missing my point, I understand that sometimes real BP may not be worth the trouble to get but what I was suggesting is that in most cases for a cartridge rifle a BP equivalent smokeless load may be a better choice. The point is that if you are going to shoot a sub why not just shoot a low pressure smokeless load as a sub? The BP subs are so different from the real thing that it's an almost totally different type of shooting than either BP or smokeless, as I said it looks, loads, shoots and even smells different so it's just simply not at all like shooting BP.

Of course I am not saying a person shouldn't use what ever they like, that's entirely up to the shooter, I was just pointing out that shooting a sub is NOT like shooting BP and neither is smokeless but smokeless doesn't have the fouling and corrosion problems of the subs, if you're not going to use BP then why bother with something else that's also completely different that's all I was saying.

[quickdraw66]

You are totally missing my point, I understand that sometimes real BP may not be worth the trouble to get but what I was suggesting is that in most cases for a cartridge rifle a BP equivalent smokeless load may be a better choice. The point is that if you are going to shoot a sub why not just shoot a low pressure smokeless load as a sub? The BP subs are so different from the real thing that it's an almost totally different type of shooting than either BP or smokeless, as I said it looks, loads, shoots and even smells different so it's just simply not at all like shooting BP.

I got the point you were making (you have made that point numerous times before), I'm saying that people have their reasons. You may think that subs and black powder are nothing alike, I'm sure many would be inclined to disagree. Its all about perspective. I'm sure you enjoy the historical aspect of it, which is why you care so much that the look and smell are the same. Some don't care that much about it. If it's similar and puts out a big cloud of smoke, they're happy. That's all there is to it.

[Avenger442]

So the answer to my question is that subs and smokeless (assuming correct pressure loads for the particular gun) can be used but for the authentic feel, look and smell use black powder. And cleaning of the gun may be more or less involved. I can understand that since I spent some time restoring cars. Authentic in some circles is considered the only way to go.

I'm considering learning how to make my own so I was just wondering if there was a reason not to use one or the other. I really had not considered using smokeless as a substitute. Can black powder be substituted for smokeless in some guns? Say a .44 special or maybe a .45 Colt.

Don't mean to take this away from original question of what to call it. I find that if I go to a Bass Pro Shop or one of the big box stores you are more likely to run into some one that does not understand. I'm lucky enough to have a local store, well about 50 miles away I live in the sticks, where almost everyone in the store hand loads, cast and/or shoots black powder and just about any firearm type. At any one time there are about four guys and the owner behind the counter. They are not just selling it but actually use the stuff they sell. While I have never done it, I think if you came into the store and asked the guys if they had real black powder and not a substitute they would know what you were talking about.

[lobowolf761]

The only place I have found any black powder is Bass Pro in Savannah, which is about 75 miles away. Not a big deal, as we are in Savannah regularly, but all they have is Goex. There is a Cabella's in Augusta, which about 100 miles away. Next time I am there, I will check with them. Small locally owned gun stores? Haven't found one that carries it yet.
The Bass Pro outside of Macon also carries Goes when they can get it. They told me it doesn't stay in the store very l9ng.

[lobowolf761]

So the answer to my question is that subs and smokeless (assuming correct pressure loads for the particular gun) can be used but for the authentic feel, look and smell use black powder. And cleaning of the gun may be more or less involved. I can understand that since I spent some time restoring cars. Authentic in some circles is considered the only way to go.

I'm considering learning how to make my own so I was just wondering if there was a reason not to use one or the other. I really had not considered using smokeless as a substitute. Can black powder be substituted for smokeless in some guns? Say a .44 special or maybe a .45 Colt.

Don't mean to take this away from original question of what to call it. I find that if I go to a Bass Pro Shop or one of the big box stores you are more likely to run into some one that does not understand. I'm lucky enough to have a local store, well about 50 miles away I live in the sticks, where almost everyone in the store hand loads, cast and/or shoots black powder and just about any firearm type. At any one time there are about four guys and the owner behind the counter. They are not just selling it but actually use the stuff they sell. While I have never done it, I think if you came into the store and asked the guys if they had real black powder and not a substitute they would know what you were talking about.
Yes you can use the Holy Black in 44 spec and 45lc. Lyman puts out a manual listing black powder load info for muzzle loaders and cartridge guns. Both 44 and 45 are listed.

[oldred]

I got the point you were making (you have made that point numerous times before), I'm saying that people have their reasons. You may think that subs and black powder are nothing alike, I'm sure many would be inclined to disagree. Its all about perspective. I'm sure you enjoy the historical aspect of it, which is why you care so much that the look and smell are the same. Some don't care that much about it. If it's similar and puts out a big cloud of smoke, they're happy. That's all there is to it.


I don't remember telling anyone not to use a sub? I simply asked what's the point?

Why is that some get so upset and defensive when SOMEONE ELSE is asked why they might choose a substitute powder instead of just using a smokeless load and avoid the hassles of the subs? If you want to pretend you're shooting BP fine I never suggested you or anyone else that they shouldn't and I have REPEATEDLY said in other posts a person should use what makes them happy! If I want to ask SOMEONE ELSE this question just to point out the options that they may, or may not have thought about then I feel I am doing nothing wrong! If it offends you that I discuss this with SOMEONE ELSE then I suggest you have the problem not me.

[Avenger442]

I haven't tried the Bass Pro near me for black powder. Its about 40 miles away. And they have higher prices. So I go another 10 miles for lower price and more educated staff for my reloading. They may have real black powder.

Re-read the above and it sounds like I don't go to Bass Pro to buy stuff. I have found that they may carry some things I can't find at my regular source for powder and equipment. I have found that if you can find a place to buy that has people that actually use what you are looking for you have a better chance. Some Bass Pro Shops could also have that too.

[oldred]

Not all that bad considering today's prices on most powders,

http://www.basspro.com/GOEX-Black-Powder/product/120829053247144/

Pyrodex is a couple of dollars less and T7 is a buck or two more, but then the subs are probably a bit cheaper at WallyWorld.

[AllanD]

I've got powder I bought in 1989 in sealed cans, mostly Goex and simply wont touch any of the various substitutes.

Remember that Pyrodex was originally advertised as producing less fouling, but after seeing what others have gone through there is indeed less fouling, but that is both harder to remove and much more corrosive...

[milrifle]

Lobowolf,


Thanks. Yes, as a matter of fact, I bought a pound of Goex FF at the Macon Bass Pro just this past Sunday. We were passing thru that area, so I detoured. I keep hoping I can run across some other brands in a store one day, but not so far.

There is a SASS match in Griffin in a couple of weeks. Not sure yet, but we may go check that out. I've never seen one. I'm sure it is interesting and entertaining, and maybe there will be some powder vendors there.

[duckey]

I stopped by a local store looking for Goex and I got a half hour lecture on why he doesn't carry it any more.....his insurance goes up for having an explosive in his store, and he can only have 25 lbs in his store at one time. He also stated that he just didn't sell enough to keep it in his store.

[oldred]

I stopped by a local store looking for Goex and I got a half hour lecture on why he doesn't carry it any more.....his insurance goes up for having an explosive in his store, and he can only have 25 lbs in his store at one time. He also stated that he just didn't sell enough to keep it in his store.



All very good reasons and we simply can't blame the store owners for not stocking it, most probably would lose money by doing so because it would not be profitable enough to even cover the extra expense of satisfying the law and the insurance companies. This leaves either buying at the few stores that do sell and paying the high prices (IF we can even find such a store) or having it delivered. Even with a 5 lb minimum it's a lot easier and cheaper than buying from a store, unless a person only shoots occasionally or is shooting a very small caliber then 5 lbs is not going to go very far and it just makes a lot of sense to order the stuff delivered.

[Avenger442]

I'm still headed toward making it myself. In my area raw materials are readily available in quantity. I've read articles written by pyrotechnic technicians that tell not only how to make it but how to make it in the same grades safely. Have also seen test results of these hand made powders up against the store bought that show it is possible to learn how to make as good as, if not better powder, yourself. Anyway, this is one reason I got into this hobby in the first place. Learning how to do it myself, the old fashion way. I wonder how many of the old time guys actually made their own powder? You know the store wasn't just a couple of days ride from them.

[kjorgy]

I shoot BPCR rifles 45-70 & have used Swiss 1&1/2 Goex & Old Eynsford powders. Granted the black is harder to get(there is only one place in Minnesota that retails it). I like to shoot black for enjoyment & in my own opinion I think it is just accurate as smokeless. Cleaning is a breeze but should be done when you are finished shooting. I have never tried Pyrodex but I do know it is easier to obtain than black. Black is an explosive & special requirements are required for storage. Which is why many dealers do not want to stock it.

[Good Cheer]

http://www.jackspowderkeg.com/

See the judge out east of Alexandria.
Fine fella. You'll like him.

[oldred]

I'm still headed toward making it myself. In my area raw materials are readily available in quantity. I've read articles written by pyrotechnic technicians that tell not only how to make it but how to make it in the same grades safely. Have also seen test results of these hand made powders up against the store bought that show it is possible to learn how to make as good as, if not better powder, yourself. Anyway, this is one reason I got into this hobby in the first place. Learning how to do it myself, the old fashion way. I wonder how many of the old time guys actually made their own powder? You know the store wasn't just a couple of days ride from them.

Now you're talking! That's something that I too have been thinking about recently and there's a pretty good thread going on about just this very thing here on the site,

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powder

[Sharpsman]

Stores base their sales on the ignorant!!

[oldred]

Stores base their sales on the ignorant!!



Would you care to elaborate????????

[El Bango]

Stay away from gunships,they have too many liabilities and idjits working in them. Google Cooeys in Hobbs New Mexico and buy a case. Split it with your be shooting friends.

[AllanD]

issue with True "Black Powder" is not BATFE regulations on storage, because black powder storage
is regulated by the Bureau of Mine Safety...

Smokeless powder is only a flammable solid, black powder is an explosive, and they have very different storage
requirements and they CANNOT be stored together...

there are also strict regulations on the amounts that can be shipped or stored together...

AD

[jcwit]

issue with True "Black Powder" is not BATFE regulations on storage, because black powder storage
is regulated by the Bureau of Mine Safety...

Smokeless powder is only a flammable solid, black powder is an explosive, and they have very different storage
requirements and they CANNOT be stored together...

there are also strict regulations on the amounts that can be shipped or stored together...

AD

Well maybe not. See the link I show and start with page # 49.

~https://www.atf.gov/file/58741/download