Bluing - what do you recommend?

[Nafnlaus]

Hi everyone - new here. :) And I'm a bit of an unusual case, as I don't actually have interest in making guns persay. But there is a gunsmithing skill that I have a lot of interest in - bluing - and I can't think of anywhere better to learn about it than a gunsmithing forum. :)

Background: I'm getting ready to build a steampunk-themed house (steampunk = what people in the 1800s might have pictured the future would look like) and want to start building some fixtures and preparing materials for conduits. A lot of stuff will be out of brass / copper / etc, but also some out of steel - everything visible, not hidden in the walls. And "back in the day", bulk iron/steel didn't generally look like your average piece of steel conduit/pipe that one picks up today; it was mostly either wrought iron or blued steel - that is, somewhere between "dark gray" and "dark grayish-blue" and "black". Generally preserved with a fast-drying oil like linseed oil. Basically, if I could start with modern steel and blue it, it should be a perfect fit for the style I'm going for.

I've watched a number of videos and read a number of articles and found out that there's all sorts of techniques and products out there - dipping in molten nitrate salts; applying rust promoters, carding and then heating the steel to convert the brown rust to the "blued" surface; just simply heating the steel with a torch and quenching in oil; a wide variety of cold-bluing products; etc. And I really don't have the experience to know what would be the most appropriate here!

If you were in my situation, what approach would you recommend that I pursue? I'd have a lot of steel to blue, a lot more than a gun barrel, and some pieces will be long lengths. As for durability needed, it'd be pretty much the same as for anything else inside a house - things at the level where people might bump into them might get occasionally bumped into, while things higher up or out of the way will probably never get bothered. Things in a bathroom or the kitchen might occasionally get water on them - basically just normal indoor wear and tear. Any of the achievable blued appearances should be fine, from gray to black, so long as it's not too "iridescent".

Thoughts? I mean I could just *paint* it, but I'd prefer a more authentic appearance... just like painting a gun wouldn't give you the same look! :)

[LAGS]

Paint may be your only option unless the steel is Carbon steel and not Galvanized in any way like Conduit or most pipe.
If the pieces are too large to boil, the rust bluing is out of the question.
But on steel, and a rust patina finish, try out mixing Water with a little salt and Hydrogen Peroxide.
Spray it on, and with enough salt, it will Instant rust almost.
Card it off and then seal it with Lacquer or acrylic.
Sand blasting it first makes it more rustic ,and rusts faster too.
Black " Wrinkle Finish" made by Krylon will look more like wrought iron

[M-Tecs]

http://www.ammoland.com/2015/06/nra-national-firearms-museum-opens-new-steampunk-guns-exhibit/#axzz3jsmQRGyJ
(http://www.ammoland.com/2015/06/nra-national-firearms-museum-opens-new-steampunk-guns-exhibit/#axzz3jsmQRGyJ)
Since you are just looking for the color cold bluing will work well for you.

I use both of these http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/metal-bluing/liquid-cold-bluing-chemicals/oxpho-blue--prod1072.aspx

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/metal-bluing/liquid-cold-bluing-chemicals/formula-44-40-instant-gun-blue-prod1112.aspx

[Beef15]

Nitre bluing is probably the most aesthetically pleasing finish you can put on steel, other than case hardening. It can range from yellow to purple. Keeping a trough of salts molten that's big enough to put pipe in may be difficult though, and certainly hazardous. The process itself is stupid easy once that is out of the way, immerse, remove clean, oil. Does require unfinished carbon steel, most conduit is not, and will rust readily unprotected.

[waksupi]

Out local Pacific Steel has various preparations for making metal pretty much any color you like. It's made for outside use, so is most likely fairly durable. Check your local metal distributor.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I guess if there's anything at all that I know something about it's hot caustic bluing, as about 80% of my gunsmithing business of some 30 years involved it. It sounds to me like bluing is absolutely the wrong way to go for your application. All forms of bluing are a rusting process that is just a blue/black oxide that is pleasing to the eye, but which actually offers very little protection against rust. The slightest scrape or scratch will show red rust in very short order, especially in a humid, steamy environment. You would be much better off to do exactly what you said you don't want to do, which it to paint the metal surfaces. I understand that you don't want a painted look, and suggest that you take a look at a Teflon coating or
one of the recently developed finishes like Dura Coat that come in many shades of blue and black and which can be applied as a spray.

[LAGS]

Truck Bed Liner Coating will also give you that Hammered Textured look, and is very rust proof.

[Nafnlaus]

Thanks everyone for your advise - I'll try out some of the various recommendations and see which works out the best :)

[nekshot]

Oreilly auto supply stores have a epoxy paint series and one of the colors is "midnite". It is a darkish black with real fine metalic I believe in it and I use on some cheaper guns and is almost identical to a decent blue job and it never will rust and is very resistant to scratching(with in reason).

[NavyVet1959]

I prefer to just heat up the object to red hot and then quench it in used motor oil. I did this with a black iron head for a cane and it turned out pretty good. Or at least better than the original iron head... :)

Besides, I'm too lazy for all that carding stuff... :)

[Alley Cat]

You might consider parkerizing steel parts for a dark gray or dark olive green color, depending on if you use zinc or manganese-based solutions. It is about as easy boiling water and has excellent corrosion resistance. It won't work on galvanized, brass or copper, though.

[Geezer in NH]

Du-Lite company in CT call them.

Du-Lite Corporation • 171 River Road • Middletown, CT 06457 • 860-347-2505 • Fax: 860-347-9404

[Whiterabbit]

Hi everyone - new here. :) And I'm a bit of an unusual case, as I don't actually have interest in making guns persay. But there is a gunsmithing skill that I have a lot of interest in - bluing - and I can't think of anywhere better to learn about it than a gunsmithing forum. :)

Background: I'm getting ready to build a steampunk-themed house

If you were in my situation, what approach would you recommend that I pursue?

Thoughts? :)

I know what you are after, where you are coming from, and where you are going. You want this:

http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/pi/mp/5706/prod_11333774018?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fletcherande rsons.com%2Fproduct_images%2Fg%2F140%2Fmedia__5978 4.jpg&d=029a42db3f353506a0a2a44e236e46135c8b2789&hei=210&wid=210&op_sharpen=1&qlt=85

and this

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81r1sQKoLUL._SL1500_.jpg

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now, if you really truly demand blue and not brown (and I think you will prefer brown, but might ant blue in some applications) then you want this:

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/skus/t_575200004_1.jpg

from brownells.com. However, you need to boil (distilled water) whatever you are bluing to use that, so you are limited to whatever fits in your largest pot. we end up buying or building boiling tanks to do barrels for gunsmithing.

[fryboy]

back in the day ( 1800's ) nickle plating was the top of the line finish , true there was some bluing/browning but also in vogue was color case hardening ( or casenit ) it imparted pretty colors as well as hardening the surface of the metal for better durability , here's a link with some discussion on it

http://www.anvilfire.com/article.php?bodyName=/FAQs/case_hardening.htm

and here's a link to google's images page of case hardened steel

https://www.google.com/search?q=case+hardened+steel&espv=2&biw=1152&bih=777&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMImeDA2sjhxwIVTEGSCh06qg2X

[Whiterabbit]

steampunk isn't really a historical thing. It's more of a dress-up ren-faire kind of thing with lots of red oak, brass, and victorian attire. so teh steel needs to be finished in a way that mates well with brass and oak.

[Blackwater]

Don't know if this would be useful, but if you've ever had an old, carbon steel bladed kitchen knife, such as was once the standard, they get an oxidized gray finish, if well cared for, due apparently to the acids and fats generally found in cutting most meats. It's not a very fast finish to acquire, but once those blades got that dullish gray patina on them, they'd last forever, practically. Also, I once browned an old muzzle loader barrel for a friend, and after the finish was really nice, reheated it and coated the exterior with boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. That barrel never even thought about rusting, and he got it wet in the rain several times, and just wiped it off and oiled it lightly when that happened, and it still didn't rust. I think the heating opened the pores of the metal and allowed the oil to really penetrate down into the finish and metal surface. In a constant wet/warm climate, it would likely still rust, but rust is a very strange thing, and doesn't always do what we expect. It's appeared evident to me on a number of occasions that finishing carbon steels depends a lot on the quality and nature of the metal being finished, and there are so many iron and steel alloys out there that I've never been able to figure it all out. Others who've done much more than I have seem to report similar findings, too, so I think you're on the right track just trying different things and seeing how they actually perform for your particular use. Too many variables for any of us, probably, to predict. Wish I/we could be of more help, but you seem to be on the right track already.

And BTW, one source of black iron pipe now is from a well driller's supply. They'll also have galvanized, too, unless things have changed a lot from when I was doing it long ago, and it IS probable that it has. Everything else has so .... Anyway, let us know how it works out for you if you will. These things can be interesting, and pretty informative when we take the processes we know and use them outside their normal parameters.

[Nafnlaus]

Hi - sorry for not responding for a while :) At first I was going to try some cold bluing solutions but read some bad reviews (although I still plan to try them, if I can manage to get some shipped to Iceland that don't cost a fortune in the process!). Instead I did some tests with NavyVet/Blackwater's approach, and I have to say, I'm a fan - easy to do and the surface looks quite nice :) Thanks you guys!

For the steel fittings that I have that are galvanized, I tried an acid bath first, which seemed to do a fine job getting rid of the zinc; after torching and dunking them in oil, the results came out the same as with ungalvanized pipe. The only downsides I've encountered so far is that scratches that don't show on the rusty piece really show up on on the finished piece.... so I'll have to be sure to polish first, then process, rather than just processing and then suddenly discovering, "oh, hey, this thing was scratched up!". I also learned that it's important for the piece to get fully submerged in the oil, otherwise it can set the surface on fire ;) And lastly for bigger pieces / doing pieces in bulk I should probably put together at least a stack of refractory brick and heat them in there rather than just holding them up on tongs in front of an acetylene torch like I've been doing with my test pieces, unless I want to burn through fuel like crazy.

Fryboy, case hardening sounds interesting - it doesn't sound much more complicated than what I've been doing, just with a longer heating period and surrounded by carbon while heating. I may give that a try at some point. :)

[Whiterabbit]

I have blued galvanized material by dipping in hydrochloric, followed by cleaning and using traditional bluing chemicals. I have not done the oil thing, but you can get a perfectly good blue on galvanized steel by HCl dipping first.