IMR4227 in the .41 mag with cast bullets

[Frank V]

Years ago I shot a friends Blackhawk .41 Mag. He was using IMR4227 but might have been jacketed bullets.
The accuracy was fantastic.
Is anyone using IMR4227 with cast bullets in the .41? I'm not after specific loads, but group size leading no leading, & how clean burning is it? Particularly any issues with leading with IMR4227?
I am using the Lee 195gr SWC mould.
Thanks

[44man]

I will not use the powders in my .44 but it was the go to powder in the .357 max.
The .41 is kind of between so it is worth a try.
It will not cause leading, your boolit or lube might.
4227 seems to be very cartridge specific. Works super in some and not good in others.
My experience with the .44 was as the gun heats, the powder burns faster, increasing velocity and pressure the hotter the gun gets.
You can detect this if shots hit lower and lower as the gun warms. Primers get flatter and flatter as you shoot.

[Tatume]

I use IMR 4227 for top-end loadings in the 44 and 41 Rem Mag cartridges with excellent results. This is a very slow burning powder. Like H110/W296 and Accurate No. 9, it does not tolerate reduced loads or fools well. You must exercise good judgment with all of these powders.

Although 44man may be correct about heating, I don't know, as I don't let my guns get very hot. I usually bring several and rotate them for that very reason.

Somewhere in his book "Pet Loads" Ken Waters had an issue with IMR 4227, but I haven't run across it recently and can't remember what it was.

[Bryan527]

My dad uses it in his Blackhawk .41 with bullets I cast for him. They are accurate and he reports clean burning and no significant leading. He applies a pretty heavy crimp.

[Frank V]

Thanks everyone after shooting my friends ..41 so many years ago & remembering the accuracy, I'm wanting to try IMR4227. :Fire:

[Bongo Boy]

I just started with 44 Mag a few months ago and 4227 was referred to, I think, as 'the cast bullet powder'. In any case, I've fired only 1,000-1,500 rds with it so far, and it seems to be excellent in cast loads that are maybe 80-90% of book max. I thought enough of it to lay in about 24 lbs or so, and expect I'll shoot it all in short order in 44, the only revolver cartridge I expect to ever have any experience with. It seems to do equally well in 45 Win Mag, and auto cartridge I now believe to be the best there ever was...'best' meaning to me fun, powerful, easy to get good accuracy out of, and 'reasonable'. I love it.

The thing about 4227 seems to a) have real nice case fill b) be easily metered, and 3) cool-burning or at least 'loves lead' when compared to, say, 800X. I've seen little if any leading problems (again, this is in 44 and 45 Mag, not 41) with any loads I've used. Lead alloy is totally unknown and I've never measured hardness. I use Jake's Purple Ceresin and their Moly Ceresin, but in the magnum calibers we're talking here, it's the Moly Ceresin.

[44man]

It was gun heat shooting IHMSA, I actually looked the gun over to see if it bent.
I had fantastic groups at 200 meters in practice and setting sights but on the line, by the time I got to the last ram I was 16 clicks over normal and hit 50 meters short.
I switched to 296 and shot 39's and 40's from then on. I won Ohio state with 79 out of 80, missed the last ram due to a jiggle. SBH.
Most .44 shooters were using 25 gr of 4227 with 240 gr bullets and did a lot of cussing at the line.
During the heat of summer I would see a change after the first shot. I reduced and it still did not work.
I have used nothing but 296 ever since. 24 gr with the 240 XTP and 23.5 with the 240 Hornady SIL. I use 296 with cast in all my revolvers except the 45-70 that needs 4759.
The .357 max loved 4227 and I shot a 39 with a new out of box Ruger with no sight settings.
296 has given me under 2" groups at 200 meters with open sights when I could still see. One shoot I hit all 5 shoot off chickens at 200 meters in the foot that is only 3"X3".
Ask if I will load 4227?

[44man]

You do not know what it is like knocking down 20 straight turkeys at 150 meters from Creedmore with an open sight SBH. Then 19 rams at 200 then 5 shoot off chickens.
My revolver demands have always been under 1" at 50 meters, most doing 1/2" and have been down to one hole. The huge 45-70 did 3/16" for 5 shots. .500 JRH, one hole. Never on demand because the brass will be uneven.

[Bongo Boy]

I've been checking for 296 availability and it just never seems to be in stock. Maybe because so many folks swear by it--I've not read one negative comment about it in the several months I've been 'researching' powders used in 44, 45 Win Mag and .45-70.


You do not know what it is like knocking down 20 straight turkeys at 150 meters from Creedmore with an open sight SBH. Then 19 rams at 200 then 5 shoot off chickens. That's correct--in fact I've never shot any targets of any kind with any weapon at 150 m or greater.

[Tatume]

Here's the only negative comment you're ever likely to hear: H110/W296 (one and the same) and Accurate No. 9 will not tolerate reduced loads. Even the major loading manuals have this wrong. For loading data, go to http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/.

[P Flados]

It was gun heat shooting IHMSA, I actually looked the gun over to see if it bent.
I had fantastic groups at 200 meters in practice and setting sights but on the line, by the time I got to the last ram I was 16 clicks over normal and hit 50 meters short.
I switched to 296 and shot 39's and 40's from then on. I won Ohio state with 79 out of 80, missed the last ram due to a jiggle. SBH.
Most .44 shooters were using 25 gr of 4227 with 240 gr bullets and did a lot of cussing at the line.
During the heat of summer I would see a change after the first shot. I reduced and it still did not work.
I have used nothing but 296 ever since. 24 gr with the 240 XTP and 23.5 with the 240 Hornady SIL. I use 296 with cast in all my revolvers except the 45-70 that needs 4759.
The .357 max loved 4227 and I shot a 39 with a new out of box Ruger with no sight settings.
296 has given me under 2" groups at 200 meters with open sights when I could still see. One shoot I hit all 5 shoot off chickens at 200 meters in the foot that is only 3"X3".
Ask if I will load 4227?

Sorry about thread drift but I can not help myself on this one.

I shot IHMSA decades ago. I want to get to back into it - but with boolits this time.

I just bought 8 lbs of Imr 4227 where WW 296 was my staple back in the day. I will have to watch out for any loads that shift as the gun heats up. Thanks for the warning.

Any of your 357 max IHMSA work done with boolits?

I shoot this in both a Dan Wesson and in a 10" TC. I just got the new Lee 200 gr mold for 200 m shooting and have a nice Lee 150 grn load for chicken & pigs. And of course turkeys will be whatever is most accurate (I need the guns to do great since my eyes do not focus worth a darn anymore).

[44man]

No, never had a mold for the Max. But I did use cast for later shoots in the .44. Shoots as good as "J" words. Wish I would have had the RD 265 back then.
Eyes were so important. Back then I could focus on the sights and still see steel clear.
One thing to watch for. Since we used a 6 o'clock hold there is a light line on top of the sights that doesn't go away so you can be in the middle of steel instead of 6 o'clock. As you rise to the ram belly that light line does not go away. It is a strange aberration.
I loved the sport but once I had to move here it was a long drive to shoots. Then too many signed up for 5 guns at one time so I had to sit in the sun a long time to get on the line. My wages did not support the cost anymore.

[Kraschenbirn]

Back in my IHMSA days, I shot a 10" Dan Wesson .41 Mag using IMR4227 under a semi-custom NEI boolit...Walt modified one of his SWC moulds to drop a TC for me. According to the marginal notes penciled into my old IHSMA Reloading Guide, cast from Lyman #2 the boolit weighed 238 grs (with gascheck) and I loaded it over 19.5 gr of IMR 4227 (compressed charge) for a chrono'd velocity of 1370 fps. PLEASE NOTE: THIS WAS A MAX+ LOAD EVEN IN THE 'BAD OLD DAYS'!! On the other hand, I shot my first revolver 40 and won a state revolver championship using this load.

Bill

[44man]

That is why I say it might work in the .41. I don't know why it acts up in the .44, I assume case size.
I was stuck in unclassified, C class for a while until I went to 296, then jumped to International in a few shoots.
I seen a lot of sand bagging where a few never shot good on purpose, then shot like mad at important shoots. Archery was famous for that too.
I learned the top shooters were the quickest to help anyone, spot for them and work with them.
We were happy, go lucky and would laugh over a miss and crack jokes but it really riled some up on the line. I would not run with my shorts in a knot. I wanted to be with the best of the best because they were better people.
I shot with Josie Engle and Boyde Carpenter, Blacky Sleeva and many more. We would beat each other over and over but were always friends. To lose with pride and take a hand is important to me.
Even in BPCR I would tie for a shoot off and just tell them to give the other man the trophy. To have him come up and shake my hand is precious. It was my gain.

[Frank V]

I am going to try IMR4227 using Javilina as lube.
I think we can't get the Javilina lube anymore, but have a lubrisizer with probably a half stick left.

[44man]

Shoot slow, keep the gun cool and it is very accurate. Use a standard primer.

[Frank V]

Thanks 44man.
NOt out for speed, accuracy, no leading, & reasonably powerful!:smile:

[44man]

That is a lube I never tested but have drawers full of other lubes I tested back to back for years. It was amazing the accuracy differences between lubes, not much trouble with leading though until I fooled with Alox.
I found some at the top, the old LBT soft magnum, new soft blue, Felix and MML.
You would not think it matters but boy, does it ever.148053 This is one test of thousands to show a hard lube against a soft.
CR had a decent showing too. It could be a little softer.

[Frank V]

Thanks 44man

I loaded some to test today, just over starting loads with a 220gr WFP non gas check & soft lube (not as soft as SPG). I bought the bullets from a fellow getting out of casting. Didn't get to try them, but they make pretty loads.
We'll see!!!