44 Magnum Deer Hammers: what to use?

[hseII]

Hello,

I've got a RedHawk that I am itching to deer hunt with this year;

147400
The one on the bottom.

We shot some loads I had on Saturday at targets, and the 330grain Garrett's @ 1400fps,( advertised, not yet verified), felt good.

What is the hands down best bullet style for Whitetail?

1300 fps is the minimum, (hopefully).

Do I use the HardCast, or go with something else?

I plan to handload.

Also, what powders?

Thank You,
HEath

[Hickory]

Best Boolit=Lyman 429640 HP
1300FPS NOT NEEDED
Do I use the HardCast= NO, 16/1 will work fine

Welcome to our site and hang on to you money, boolits molds will show up in your mail box.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

A few years ago I would have said H110 now my wrist say 2400 as far as what boolit my Ruger SBH likes a 270 gr

[43PU]

I use a Lee 430-310 with the gas check reamed off and Powder Coated, over a case of Winchester 296 for about 1150-1200 FPS and I can tell you that I have never had a Deer complain with a shot behind the ribs or in the head.


Alloy is 50/50

Wheel weights and Pure air cooled and loaded 2 weeks after cast I think BHN is around 11

Enjoy

43PU

[Outpost75]

I don't find Eastern whitetails at all hard to kill. I use the same basic load in my Ruger .44 Magnum revolver that I do in my S&W Model 544 in .44-40 and Marlin 1894 carbine, Accurate 43-230G cast 1:30 tin/lead with 24.5 grains of RL7. Have killed a few with my range load with 7.2 grains of Bullseye also. Shot placement is key. Soft bullet with large meplat will expand above 1000 fps.

Side-by-Side comparisons fired same day with .44 Magnum “Medium Velocity” loads
fired in two Vaqueros using the same .44 Magnum cylinder, 20" Marlin 1894S for comparison:

Ammunition assembled in Remington .44 Mag.New Factory Primed brass with Remington 2-1/2 primers.

Load Description_______Ruger 5-1/2"______Ruger 7-1/2"____Marlin 20”__Remarks

-----------------------------------Cyl.Gap 0.008"-------Cyl.Gap 0.008"------Solid barrel

43-230G 1:30Sn/Pb 7.2BE___978, 18Sd________1044, 21Sd_____1178, 7Sd___1.59” OAL crimped top groove

43-230G 1:30Sn/Pb 24.5RL7_1022, 18Sd_______1151, 21Sd_____1432, 26Sd__1.59”OAL

147401

[1bluehorse]

A 240gr cast bullet from 11 to 15 BHN at 1200fps will kill any deer in the neighborhood. I enjoy reading what others are using, but the truth is you don't need a 300+gr bullet traveling at warp speed to drop a deer. Fact of the matter is I wouldn't be a bit concerned using the above load on an Elk.

[DougGuy]

OP you don't say where you are located or where you intend to hunt, which makes a little difference in the size of the deer.

First off, just about ANY boolit you can stuff in the front of a .44 magnum case will take deer quickly and humanely.

Secondly, it USED to be a sort of a mentality to want to shoot jacketed hollowpoints, get some expansion, and stop the bullet in the animal thereby dumping all of it's nastiness and energy for maximum effort. USED to be.. Now.. Enter castboolits where the whole game is changed, and for the better.

Thirdly, we have some right dang fine cast booolit designs, and any of the wide meplat/flat nosed designs will work good, actually a hp is not needed at all up against the flying oilcan that is the Lee C 430-310-RF boolit. OR any of it's improved varieties you will find here. There is the Lyman "devastator" hp and it's clones that are a hp design,and they do offer expansion when driven at decent velocities but it honestly is not needed.

The castboolits mentality (not all here but most) will advise that the RF boolit, traveling at 1200fps or even a tad slower, will punch both an entrance and an exit hole, 2 holing them if you will, with a golfball sized wound channel between the two, is the better choice for terminal performance as it bleeds them pretty good out of both wounds.

This is one thing I learned in coming here, and I have since brought my .44 mag SBH around to tailoring it to the cast load I hunt with. I prefer the Lee 310, with it's gas check installed, in 50/50+2% alloy (50% clip on wheel weight, 50% pure dead soft lead, and 2% tin which helps the alloy fill out the mold AND makes the boolit tough while still malleable) or 20:1, either way I like it soft enough to dig a thumbnail in, and I use soft lube, preferrably Felix lube, and I do not max this load out with H110, I run it right at 1180/1200fps which is very very accurate, with zero leading, and soft enough to expand without needing a hp. It doesn't have to be a hard cast boolit, and the Ruger rifling LOVES the softer alloy and soft lube.

Penetration foremost, expansion secondary, shot placement is KEY no matter what caliber or load.

I did ream the cylinder throats to an even .4325" to accept .432" boolits, and I did recut the forcing cone to 11° and polish it. These are two areas that most of our Ruger .44s need addressed for best cast boolit performance.

Forcing cone cut to 11°

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/44%20Magnum/DSC01739_zps53352b7c.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/44%20Magnum/DSC01739_zps53352b7c.jpg.html)

Cylinder throats after reaming (before final polishing)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/44%20Magnum/DSC01736_zps81d64f73.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/44%20Magnum/DSC01736_zps81d64f73.jpg.html)

Lee C430-310-RF boolits:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/DSC01964_zps17b81bf2.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/DSC01964_zps17b81bf2.jpg.html)

[DougGuy]

As far as powders, generally you want to use slow burning powder in a magnum caliber with heavy boolits. It is not advisable to try to make magnum velocities with powders like Unique and Bullseye, for the big bores you need 2400, AA#9, H110/W296, LilGun, NV110, there are others but probably the most commonly used powders in heavy hunting loads for this caliber are H110 and 2400.

The only thing you need keep in mind with H110, is that it does NOT like to be downloaded and should be the top choice for full house magnum loads. H110 and W296 are the same exact powders, made in the same plant, sold with different labels depending on which customer they are going to, Hodgdon or Winchester.

If you want less than balls to the wall loads in the .44, 2400 and LilGun will gladly provide success in the 75% ~ 90% power range of the .44 magnum. I use 17.0gr 2400 with a WLP primer in the loads pictured in the post above. These run right at 1200fps from a 7 1/2" SBH and is all the doctor ordered for our thin skinned game on the eastern seaboard.

I might also add that the two rounds on the left are crimped with a modified Lee Collet Style crimp die, the two on the right are crimped with a roll crimp that is found in the standard seating die. For these slow burning powders to work at their best, it is very important to have some resistance to boolit pull, for this you need a good amount of case neck tension, AND a decent crimp. One of these, by itself, without the other one, leads to wide swings in velocity which can open up groups unfavorably even at short distances.

The collet crimp on the left may seem like overkill at first, but I am finding that it reduces the spread in velocities by providing more resistance to boolit pull than the roll crimp, and I think it gives the powder a better burn overall. Cannot prove this, but results over the chrony say the collet crimp is a little more consistent than the roll crimp.

You will get a lot of replies to this thread, and a lot of different opinions. My post(s) are what works for me, and how I arrive at that load.

[hseII]

Best Boolit=Lyman 429640 HP
1300FPS NOT NEEDED
Do I use the HardCast= NO, 16/1 will work fine

Welcome to our site and hang on to you money, boolits molds will show up in your mail box.

Thank You.

[Blackwater]

Frankly, I'm with outpost on this matter. Doug Guy gives excellent advice, too, though. I've always shot heavier loads simply because I've usually hunted where shots could extend out past 250 yds., and I'd shot enough at 200 to know where to put my sights, and be pretty sure of a hit out to that distance. The heavier/faster loads just made this easier, adn was the load I'd used on those distant targets with my .44, so it just made sense to use the load I was used to.

However, it doesn't take that much to kill deer effectively. A 200 gr. RNFP in the right place will turn the trick very handily. A friend who's shot more deer than most of us have even SEEN has a real affinity for the .45 LC, and in near factory levels, for the most part, even though he shoots a Ruger. When asked why he didn't shoot the heavy "Ruger only" loads, he just shrugged and said, there's really no need for it, and I like the regular loads. Might get a 2nd shot if I'm lucky. That kind of simplistic logic, based on EXPERIENCE, is the kind of wisdom we can really learn from. However, he's the finest and most consistent shot with a gun of any type that I've ever known, and he tends to use head shots out to nearly 50 yds. That tends to make a big difference! He's shot deer with everything from a .22 LR pistol to a .375 H&H, and you just can't kill them any deader than a .22 LR in the brain pan.

For us mere mortal shooters, though, most any well thought out load should do well. A friend of mine once commented on the .45/70 that, "You can load it with black powder or smokeless, cast or jacketed bullets, or even ash trays or feather pillows, and it'll STILL kill whatever you shoot at with it if you place it right." There's an awful lot of truth in that particular bit of hyperbole.

The Keith cast bullet has been doing well forever. A buddy once put one of these over 7.5 gr. Unique in his S&W 624 .44 Special lengthwise through a moderate sized whitetail buck. Hit it between the hams and the bullet came out just off center of the chest. The deer took a couple of weak leaps after the shot, and kicked his last. Good shot placement is always going to be the main factor, no matter what caliber of bullet you use. We just don't have any "poison" bullets that kill with edge shots yet, even with our modern technology. I have the Lyman 215 gr. SWC in both solid and HP versions, and I'd like to try the HP on one, but have no illusions that he solid wouldn't do very well. No matter what bullet you use, you'll probably get full penetration on anything near a broadside shot, and if a cast bullet, possibly on facing toward or away shots. Those bullets are like the Everready rabbit - they just keep going and going.

Bottom line is, there's really no wrong answer, except that RN (unless RNFP's) don't generally do well at wounding unless driven fast enough (for lead) in order to initiate quick expansion. Any RNFP or SWC should do quite well if you just place it right. Most experienced hunters with cast seem to gravitate to the softer alloys, but only up to a point in the magnums. Good lubes can make a difference as well.

Just try a variety of bullets and loads, and see what shoots best for you, and use the one you can PLACE best. You should have good results.

[hseII]

OP you don't say where you are located or where you intend to hunt, which makes a little difference in the size of the deer.

First off, just about ANY boolit you can stuff in the front of a .44 magnum case will take deer quickly and humanely.

Secondly, it USED to be a sort of a mentality to want to shoot jacketed hollowpoints, get some expansion, and stop the bullet in the animal thereby dumping all of it's nastiness and energy for maximum effort. USED to be.. Now.. Enter castboolits where the whole game is changed, and for the better.

Thirdly, we have some right dang fine cast booolit designs, and any of the wide meplat/flat nosed designs will work good, actually a hp is not needed at all up against the flying oilcan that is the Lee C 430-310-RF boolit. OR any of it's improved varieties you will find here. There is the Lyman "devastator" hp and it's clones that are a hp design,and they do offer expansion when driven at decent velocities but it honestly is not needed.

The castboolits mentality (not all here but most) will advise that the RF boolit, traveling at 1200fps or even a tad slower, will punch both an entrance and an exit hole, 2 holing them if you will, with a golfball sized wound channel between the two, is the better choice for terminal performance as it bleeds them pretty good out of both wounds.

This is one thing I learned in coming here, and I have since brought my .44 mag SBH around to tailoring it to the cast load I hunt with. I prefer the Lee 310, with it's gas check installed, in 50/50+2% alloy (50% clip on wheel weight, 50% pure dead soft lead, and 2% tin which helps the alloy fill out the mold AND makes the boolit tough while still malleable) or 20:1, either way I like it soft enough to dig a thumbnail in, and I use soft lube, preferrably Felix lube, and I do not max this load out with H110, I run it right at 1180/1200fps which is very very accurate, with zero leading, and soft enough to expand without needing a hp. It doesn't have to be a hard cast boolit, and the Ruger rifling LOVES the softer alloy and soft lube.

Penetration foremost, expansion secondary, shot placement is KEY no matter what caliber or load.

I did ream the cylinder throats to an even .4325" to accept .432" boolits, and I did recut the forcing cone to 11° and polish it. These are two areas that most of our Ruger .44s need addressed for best cast boolit performance.

Forcing cone cut to 11°

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/44%20Magnum/DSC01739_zps53352b7c.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/44%20Magnum/DSC01739_zps53352b7c.jpg.html)

Cylinder throats after reaming (before final polishing)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/44%20Magnum/DSC01736_zps81d64f73.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/44%20Magnum/DSC01736_zps81d64f73.jpg.html)

Lee C430-310-RF boolits:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/DSC01964_zps17b81bf2.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/DSC01964_zps17b81bf2.jpg.html)

We are in Georgia; Bigger Deer than some places, but smaller than those Illinois Monsters in all the Magazines.

Recoil is nice: it lets me know I'm not shorting a pop gun, but I'm not gray enough for it to be painful yet, either.

I guess what I'm looking for is " Bang Flop performance", (or as close as one can get), with a handgun.

We've always just shot them with a .270 Win or bigger: using a pistol would seem to be more challenging, and I want to try.

Most Ethically, Of Course.

[Biggfoot44]

The load you reference of a 330gr Flat Point @ claimed 1400fps is an Elk or Large Bear loading. Presuming "deer" means a whitetail, sub 200lb, and probably sub 150lb, such a load would be certainly fatal upon Bambi, but well in excess of what's required. There is a creditable argument for controled expansion JHP for "mere" whitetails, but since you are inquireing in a Cast Bullet forum, we will presume you have made the decision in favor a cast bullet.

Once upon a decade the gunwriter, and experienced deer hunter the late Hal Swiggert beseeched Remington to introduce a 240gr lead Flat Point at a nominal 1000fps, in the belief that such was a desireable load for hunting Texas Whitetails.

By all means if where you hunt has a regulation requiring an arbitrary minium amount of FtLb of energy , abide by the law. ( Where I "live" requires 700Ftlb, and arbitrary 6in bbl. Where I "hunt" requires 350FtLb, and 4in bbl. 350FtLb is kinda pushing the min , but I feel entirely well armed using 4in .44spl and 5.5in .45LC in neighboring State where I hunt.)

So long as you take shots within +/- 45 deg of broadside at normal sized Whitetail, any cast bullet of SWC or FP with decent meplat at min of 1000fps will be fatal to Bambi. More Fps will provide additional margin of error. Any cast bullet afficianado can spend hours debating the relative merits of Keith-ish vs LBT-ish profiles. If you were hunting large Brown or Grizzley Bear, or planning to take a Mexican Heart Shot on an Elk , the debates would be meaningful.


Realizing that I didn't give a direct answer, here goes :

Random 240-ish grain SWC. Considering the picture apears to be a 7.5in Redhawk, its substantial enough to soak up some recoil. So load it to somewhere between 1100-1300 actual vel, that give at least 1.5in @25yd groups , with extra credit for group potential aproaching 1.0in . The lower end of that is reachable with medium speed powders , if you already are using them with succuess. Otherwise whichever of the usual suspects of slow-ish powders.

( Personally, I'd start out with 90-95% load density of 4227. If that met accuraccy requirement, I'd declare Victory, and go hunting. But that's just me. There are another half dozen aproaches that are more or less reasonable. ) ( Double Hint: Don't obsess over "best" . With .44Mag for Whitetail , " plenty good enough" is darn good.)

[Lonegun1894]

Whatever bullet you and your gun like that weighs at least 200grs and has a nice flat front end. I like the Lyman 429421 and the RCBS 245-250gr SWC designs, and both seem to work great, but I have also used a 235gr RNFP that worked very well too. So now you see why I insist on a nice flat meplat, but while I prefer a SWC, that is just my personal prejudice and is due to reading too much of St. Keith according to a couple friends of mine who use various other designs like the Lee 310gr and other similar designs. All our boolits seem to kill deer and hogs equally well, so I call it personal preference as to what you go with, but a HP is not needed for the way I hunt, even though I have a HP mold for my .44 also.

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree but will add that any cast bullet with a decent meplat that weights 240 or more will kill just fine at even a 900 fps. If your looking for bang flop shoot them in the front shoulder. You might loose a bit of meat but if your not using a hp it wont be that much. If you don't want to shoot shoulders maybe the lyman devastator cast out of 5050 ww/pure at 1100-1200 fps will cork any deer. I shot a 1100 lb cow buffalo with that bullet at 1100 and my buddy who runs the operation said it was the quickest kill hed ever seen on a handgun shot buffalo and one of the quickest kills ever period that he had seen. Shot behind the shoulder the buffalo stood wobbly for about 3 seconds with blood spraying out of her mouth took one leap and nose dived into the ground dead. base of the bullet actually came out the far side. Not a gun that would be my first choise for buffalo hunting or for sure not a load and bullet I would have chose but the opportunity presented itself and its what I had in the holster that day and it surely got it done.
A 240gr cast bullet from 11 to 15 BHN at 1200fps will kill any deer in the neighborhood. I enjoy reading what others are using, but the truth is you don't need a 300+gr bullet traveling at warp speed to drop a deer. Fact of the matter is I wouldn't be a bit concerned using the above load on an Elk.

[hseII]

I agree but will add that any cast bullet with a decent meplat that weights 240 or more will kill just fine at even a 900 fps. If your looking for bang flop shoot them in the front shoulder. You might loose a bit of meat but if your not using a hp it wont be that much. If you don't want to shoot shoulders maybe the lyman devastator cast out of 5050 ww/pure at 1100-1200 fps will cork any deer. I shot a 1100 lb cow buffalo with that bullet at 1100 and my buddy who runs the operation said it was the quickest kill hed ever seen on a handgun shot buffalo and one of the quickest kills ever period that he had seen. Shot behind the shoulder the buffalo stood wobbly for about 3 seconds with blood spraying out of her mouth took one leap and nose dived into the ground dead. base of the bullet actually came out the far side. Not a gun that would be my first choise for buffalo hunting or for sure not a load and bullet I would have chose but the opportunity presented itself and its what I had in the holster that day and it surely got it done.

Thank You.

Will the extra velocity hurt performance?

[44man]

Some good points but I use the .44 different and have taken most of my deer with it. I like heavy boolits and a WLN or the Lee 310 both work super. I found no need for any expansion.
I wd WW boolits for a reason, ACCURACY and I do shoot them around 1300 fps, seems they have more energy. 1300 because that is where they shoot, tried to run them slow and a 2' or larger pattern at 50 yards is not in my hunting book.
With the Lee and 21.5 gr of 296, Fed 150 primer I get 1" or less at 50 but at 1100 I need a huge cardboard back stop to even catch boolits. I don't know how guys do it but I can't shoot heavy slow. Kind of does away with the "hit them right thing".
If you want slower use a lighter boolit. If you want a bang-flop from almost every deer with a revolver you need a .475.
Now I shoot heavy from the .45 Colt at 1160 fps but you know it has a 1 in 16" twist and can handle that.
I have never made a barrel do magic, lost the wand long ago and I have a 10-1/2" barrel on the .44, if you have a real short gun you need to shoot hotter then I do with heavy boolits. Best to stay at the 240-250 range for them.

[Joni Lynn]

I haven't gone hunting for a number of years but I used to enjoy using a 44 revolver. The deer in sw PA aren't hard to kill, a Chevy at 40+ mpg always works well but I found a variety of bullets worked well, all stuffed in front of a charge of WW296. Hornady 180, 200, 240 XTP, Sierra 210, Federal factory 240 and a hard cast 255 that went clear through. I tried the Hornady 265 but it didn't expand well, pretty much not at all. Didn't get a chance to use a Hornady 300 XTP.
Best wishes.

[Lloyd Smale]

probably not on a deer. There not that tough to get penetration on. What can happen though is when hitting bone at higher velocitys a bullet deforms. When it deforms penetration suffers. Even a real hard bullet will deform hitting bone when you push it over about 1200 fps. So if you are hunting a really big animal, say over 500 lbs your better off with a heavier slow projectile then a lighter faster one. As far as expansion goes like in a hp in most cases your better off with the longer smaller wound cavity of a harder slower bullet then you are with the larger shorter wound channel of a hp or soft nosed bullet. Again especialy when your talking animals bigger then deer. Deer are for the most part easy to kill and can be effieciently taken with about any bullet or load in a 44 mag.
Thank You.

Will the extra velocity hurt performance?

[Lloyd Smale]

you see even joni agrees with me. There so easy to kill that even good gas mileage:bigsmyl2: will get it done
I haven't gone hunting for a number of years but I used to enjoy using a 44 revolver. The deer in sw PA aren't hard to kill, a Chevy at 40+ mpg always works well but I found a variety of bullets worked well, all stuffed in front of a charge of WW296. Hornady 180, 200, 240 XTP, Sierra 210, Federal factory 240 and a hard cast 255 that went clear through. I tried the Hornady 265 but it didn't expand well, pretty much not at all. Didn't get a chance to use a Hornady 300 XTP.
Best wishes.

[44man]

Having worked with the .44 since 1956, I was always doing explosive tests with water, etc and was enamored with the 240 XTP along with superb accuracy, maybe the most accurate bullet made. I had the expansion syndrome and always said "WOW" what would that do to deer? Of course we were not allowed to use them back then, Ohio. I moved here and started with the XTP to find it was a mistake. I recovered all three from deer I shot, but they did not leave the second hole so there was no blood trails at all, zero-zip. I seen the deer go down at 60 yards or better so I had no losses. I back track all deer. I was just lucky to be in a spot where I could see a distance. Every other place I hunt today will have a deer out of sight in a bound so I changed. I went to the 320 LBT WLN and things turned around, looks like gallons poured out with most deer not making 30 yards. Got too expensive so I made my own mold and it came out 330 gr. Then bought the Lee 310. Both work the same. One season I only had 5 Lee boolits loaded in the box, stuffed the cylinder and in a few days I shot 3 deer and had 2 shots left.
I found the 1 in 20" twist will stabilize a heavy boolit if at the right spin velocity but not under. It took 1316 fps with the LBT 320.
I know I have way over 150 deer kills with the .44. I figure since I started revolver hunting I am at 179 to 180 deer just with them. Last ones with the .475 and .500 JRH.
I lost 2 deer with the 45-70 BFR because the boolit is too hard for 1632 fps. Soon to be fixed with a soft nose. JRH was poor until I cast a soft nose but the .475 still is the hammer of God with a 22 bhn boolit. My learning curve is on actual deer, made some mistakes along the line depending on just a WFN cookie cutter.
The glory of cast is you can fix things if you screw up. But don't get carried away with dead soft or soft HP's.
The amount of damage a hard .44 boolit can do is amazing.147506 Neck shot with a 330 gr, 22 bhn, .44 boolit. I don't think anyone can tell me to use a light, fast, soft, HP.

[nockhunter]

The 300g XTP works pretty well. The first deer I killed with them was a doe at about 75 yards quartering away, I hit a little high at the last rib. The exit hole was at the opposite shoulder, what a mess,I ruined the back straps. She went down like "Joni's 40mpr Chevy hit it". The next deer was a 90 deg rib shot, removed some lung and walked about 10 yards and fell over. I also like the Speer 300g jsp, a little tougher than the xtp's but work well on hogs. I haven't recovered any yet. (300g xtp, and Speer 300g jsp in both .44, and .45) should shoot through most anything you point them at. I run them both around 1200fps. I'm working on casting right now, I have the Lee 310g .44 and the 300g .45 molds.

Mike

[44man]

It is amazing what a revolver can do to meat. After losing the two deer with the 45-70 BFR I tried some 50-50 HP's, 420 gr that Babore sent me. Never again! I did not see the angle right and shot a big doe behind the shoulder to have it exit the opposite shoulder, I ruined the whole shoulder and she was bloodshot head to butt. Granted, it is a rifle round. But imagine that boolit from a rifle at 1800+! It would make dragging easy with just a skin left.
I used the 300 gr Hornady next and had a buck and doe I was watching for an hour back in the woods finally come through. The doe was going the speed of light too far and thick. The buck took of like a bullet and was closer but still thick. I found an opening the size of a basket ball in front and held there. When he hit the side of my Ultra Dot I let go. About 50 yards. Too much lead and I took him in the front of the shoulders. It worked just fine.
But I like cast better so will fix my boolits. Ya know it only takes half the nose softer so you still have hard lead to engage the forcing cone and it does not have to be dead soft. I use 3# of pure with 1# of WW. Most amazing thing I ever used in the JRH and meat loss is nil.
I am never going the soften the whole boolit, need the hard base, still at 22 bhn water dropped because it is a PB.147607 This is the buck with the 300 Hornady.