Ruger’s strength

[bearbud]

I have a SS fixed sights 38 special Ruger GP-100. Just after I bought this revolver, I milled the under-lug to my taste and made an oil finished wood grips to fit. I shimmed the trigger, hammer and hammer dog. I stoned all the moving parts, and did a trigger job. I made new springs for the gun and I cut the forcing cone at 11 degrees. The throats were left stock at .358”.
Since buying this gun, I shot thousands of rounds (99% lead projectiles) through it. The gun is super smooth and is as accurate as any well-tuned revolver that I have used.
A friend offered me to buy the gun for a price I just can’t refuse. The amount that he is willing to pay is ridiculously high, but he is a wealthy guy and he just have to have it. I am more than willing to let it go for the offer price as it will allow me to buy another toy that I wouldn’t be able to afford otherwise.
The deal has one condition. My friend wants me to ream the chambers to 357 magnum. I can easily do myself (I did it successfully before) and without additional costs since I already have the reamer.
The question I have is, if it is a safe thing to do? Is the 38 cylinder and frame of a Ruger GP-100 have the same metallurgy and heat treatment as the Ruger GP-100 357 cylinder and frame? I tried to contact Ruger with this question but they wouldn’t give me an answer. So what do you think?

Bearbud

[ReloaderFred]

Ruger isn't going to tell you to do it, even if they think it can be safely done. They don't want to get sued if something goes wrong, especially since they're not doing the work.

As for converting it to .357 Magnum, I personally wouldn't do it, for the same reasons Ruger won't tell you it's ok. You would have no control over the gun, or the ammunition fired in it, after it leaves your hands.....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Outpost75]

Why not just buy a GP100 in .357?

As for a GP in .38 Special you can load the beJesus out of it and not worry... I do mine.

[Dale53]

bearbud;
I would suggest you contact Ed Harris on the Cast Bullet Association Forum and ask him. He is a retired development engineer from Ruger, former NRA Staffer and extremely knowledgeable. He is, in addition, extremely reliable.

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/

FWIW
Dale53

[tja6435]

Numrich is sold out of .357 cylinders for the GP100, but this guy on eBay has one for $80.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Ruger-GP-100-Revolver-Stainless-Cylinder-Assembly-357-Mag-/252025462225?nav=SEARCH

not my cylinder, just a suggestion

[Petrol & Powder]

The short answer is yes the GP-100 cylinders chambered in 38 Special are the same as the cylinders chambered in .357 magnum except for the length of the chamber. The same holds true for the Six series Rugers. I've explored that exact question with people that are familiar with Ruger's manufacturing processes who were privy to information not available to the general public.
Now, If I had a the gun described in the first post of this thread I would be tempted to fit a second .357 cylinder and sell the gun with both cylinders rather than risking reaming the perfect 38 Special cylinder.

BTW, I currently have two GPNY's (38 Special DAO GP-100's made for NYPD) that I would NEVER convert to .357 magnum. I would explain to your potential buyer that he is getting a super strong GP-100 and the 38 Special chambers are not an impediment.

[bearbud]

Thank you gentlemen for the very informative replies. Bearbud

[FergusonTO35]

Why does this keep coming up, here and on the Ruger forum? .357 GP-100's are everywhere, yet so many folks feel they need to convert the uncommon .38 Special ones to .357. If you are fortunate enough to own a .38 Special GP-100 there are lots of weirdos like me who will happily buy it from you just the way it is for a price good enough to buy a .357 GP. I don't have the funds for it right now but I guarantee there is someone here or on the Ruger forum who does, especially if it doesn't have a full underlug.

Another thing to remember: if the revolver ever needs factory service Ruger will probably get upset when they find out it has been converted to .357. The reason being, it is on their manufacturer's books as a .38 but is now running around as a .357 which ATF might then consider to be an error in their record keeping. As is the case with most gun makers, Ruger does not like guns to leave their service department with aftermarket parts or non-factory modifications. Ruger may go ahead and convert it back to .38 and keep the .357 cylinder without your permission, maybe even demand that the owner pay for it.

[Tatume]

Another thing to remember: if the revolver ever needs factory service Ruger will probably get upset when they find out it has been converted to .357. The reason being, it is on their manufacturer's books as a .38 but is now running around as a .357 which ATF might then consider to be an error in their record keeping.

Lots of guns have been converted from one chambering to another. ATF is not going to make the assumption that Ruger kept sloppy records based on that.

[FergusonTO35]

Yes, I agree the chance is slight but I still don't think Ruger would like it. In any event the easiest and most headache free thing for the OP's friend to do is just buy a .357 in the first place. Ruger double action wheelguns are becoming quite collectible, and the .38 Special chambering adds value as they are much less common than .357.

[Outpost75]

Agree that the .38 Special chambering is less common and collectible.

If you want a .357 you can sell that .38 Special GP for enough to buy a new .357 with change left.

[Electric88]

Agree that the .38 Special chambering is less common and collectible.

If you want a .357 you can sell that .38 Special GP for enough to buy a new .357 with change left.

I don't think the OP is looking to buy a 357 to have one. His friend (who intends to purchase the 38 special) wants the chamber reamed to take 357. Selling it to buy a 357 wouldn't really solve anything.

But I could be misunderstanding in my belief :veryconfu

[Tatume]

A friend offered me to buy the gun for a price I just can’t refuse. The amount that he is willing to pay is ridiculously high, but he is a wealthy guy and he just have to have it. I am more than willing to let it go for the offer price as it will allow me to buy another toy that I wouldn’t be able to afford otherwise.

I say go for it. If the fellow will give you enough to afford a gun you couldn't otherwise afford, rechamber the 38 and sell it to him.

I wouldn't worry too much about collectors either. I always wanted a Python, and look what the collectors have done to that market. Guns were meant to be shot, not locked away like Solomon's gold.

[Petrol & Powder]

Agree that the .38 Special chambering is less common and collectible.

If you want a .357 you can sell that .38 Special GP for enough to buy a new .357 with change left.


/\ Yes Sir!! That would be better than modifying a good 38 Special GP

[Tatume]

But he never said he wants a 357 revolver.

[williamwaco]

Have your friend buy a .357 and you modify it for him to duplicate your .38. Charge him the difference between what he offered you and the cost of a new one.

Then sell your modified .38 here. If it is as nice as you say
, it should bring a princely sum.

When you are done, you should have more money than if you re-chambered your .38.

[Tatume]

Would a collector even want it?


I milled the under-lug to my taste and made an oil finished wood grips to fit. I shimmed the trigger, hammer and hammer dog. I stoned all the moving parts, and did a trigger job. I made new springs for the gun and I cut the forcing cone at 11 degrees.

[williamwaco]

No, but a revolver SHOOTER would love it.

[Walkingwolf]

I have a blue 4 inch 38 spl GP, I would never convert it. It does just fine with 38/44 loads. I would never take on the liability of converting a gun for somebody else. Let them hire a gunsmith who has insurance.

[CHeatermk3]

QUOTE:

Lots of guns have been converted from one chambering to another. ATF is not going to make the assumption that Ruger kept sloppy records based on that.

When the authorities come to audit your books any discrepancy can and prolly will, be an issue.

The severity of it in terms of the energy/time one will need to expend to rectify it are up to the agent in charge of the audit.
At that point you're not dealing with whatever agency so much as with the person on-site...better hope he is in a good mood!

[Tatume]

QUOTE:

Lots of guns have been converted from one chambering to another. ATF is not going to make the assumption that Ruger kept sloppy records based on that.

When the authorities come to audit your books any discrepancy can and prolly will, be an issue.

The severity of it in terms of the energy/time one will need to expend to rectify it are up to the agent in charge of the audit.
At that point you're not dealing with whatever agency so much as with the person on-site...better hope he is in a good mood!

This is simply not true. Ruger revolvers are converted to other cartridges almost every day. Look at all the custom gunsmiths who make their livings doing almost nothing but converting Ruger revolvers. Gary Reeder has probably done thousands, as have Hamilton Bowen, Clements, Linebaugh, and many others. It is simply nonsense to claim that if I rechamber a revolver, Ruger will get in trouble with the BATFE.

[Petrol & Powder]

This is simply not true. Ruger revolvers are converted to other cartridges almost every day. Look at all the custom gunsmiths who make their livings doing almost nothing but converting Ruger revolvers. Gary Reeder has probably done thousands, as have Hamilton Bowen, Clements, Linebaugh, and many others. It is simply nonsense to claim that if I rechamber a revolver, Ruger will get in trouble with the BATFE.

I concur. Modifying a firearm into another legally acceptable form of a firearm is a total non-issue. ATF doesn't care even a little bit.

[DougGuy]

He should buy it and appreciate it AS IS. He can load the .38 to +P+ if he so desires. Too many good reasons cited in this thread to leave it .38 Special and not ream the chambers to .357 Magnum.

[9.3X62AL]

I certainly hope the OP's potential buyer does not practice dentistry. If he did, he would likely do molar extractions via the anal vent.

BATFE can get as excited as they want if I elect to alter a firearm's caliber. They seemed to hold still for T-C Contenders without dust-up, so I imagine they have other fish to fry.

The concerns expressed by some onlookers here are curious, at minimum.

[M-Tecs]

I concur. Modifying a firearm into another legally acceptable form of a firearm is a total non-issue. ATF doesn't care even a little bit.

That is 100% correct. Other than over 50 Cal the BATF doesn't give a rats behind about caliber conversions.

[bearbud]

Dear Fellow Forum Members.
Thank you again for your replies but please come down, this thread is getting too intense. The OP (me) only asked about your opinion about strength (metallurgy and heat treatment). So to answer some of the points that you brought up:
The gun has no collectors value, it is already been modified. The under-lug was cut many years ago and before anyone was dreaming about 38 special GP-100 becoming collectable. My friend is not a gun guy, he is just a rich guy that likes guns. He doesn’t want a new 357 GP-100, he wants my gun (as configured) in 357. Knowing the guy for the last forty years, he probably would not even shoot the gun and for sure will not send it back to Ruger.
I would never attempt to do this conversion if I have the slightest doubt about safety. I was looking for a 357 cylinder but couldn’t find one. (I am not an ebay shopper, maybe I should be). I took hardness measurements (Brinell) on the cylinder (in three spots), and it is comparable to a 357 cylinder I borrowed from my neighbor. I did SEM/EDS measurements on both 38/357 cylinders and the metal composition is the same. (I am an engineer in the aerospace industry with access to many labs).
Also, do you really think that the BATF cares about rechambering of a firearm? Think about all the Mauser, Springfield, Remington, Winchester etc. rifles that were rebarreled to other cartridges.
I asked you guys for your opinions/experiences because I would like to hear it. I made my empirical measurement and came to a conclusion but it never hurt to get more data. So please slow down and please go easy on the new and the shy guys.

Bearbud

[FergusonTO35]

I'm not trying to be hard on you or anyone else. People are expressing their opinions but I don't think it has gotten to THR level yet.

Converting a .38 to .357 is more drastic than screwing a .270 tube on your .30'06, given that the .357 has nearly twice the pressure. Even though the GP-100 is more than up to the task I can't imagine Ruger would give their blessing, they have nothing to gain by doing so. If I was a gunmaker I would not offer free factory service on guns that had been rechambered or had more than cosmetic or superficial modifications. Why should they still cover a gun which has been both technically and legally remanufactured into a different one? Nobody who buys an expensive custom such as Hamilton-Bowen or Gemini will ever send their gun back to the maker so those are irrelevant.

The Contender was originally entered into the books as a particular caliber, extra barrels could then be purchased in addition to the original caliber barrel it was built with, adding an additional caliber is not considered making a new firearm in the same way that permanently changing caliber by reaming a chamber is. This is why all the switch barrel gunmakers over the years have offered additional barrels but would not exchange the original for a new caliber as this constitutes manufacturing a new firearm and necessitates a new entry in the books.

You and your friend are certainly free to do what you want, I just think you need to realize that Ruger may refuse to service the gun if it ever needs it. By the way, the chopped underlug actually would be a selling point for me, factory or not. For the most part I despise full underlugs. When I had a GP I was strongly considering chopping the underlug. Glad I didn't, as I ended up trading it even for a Marlin 336 Texan to a dealer who will not take firearms with any sort of mods.

[TXGunNut]

The question unasked is will you miss this GP100? Sounds like a sweet old gun, I like the idea of having your friend buy a 357 and maybe you can modify it to suit him.

[Petrol & Powder]

bearbud, if you will not miss the gun, take a reamer to the cylinder, sell the gun to your friend for a healthy profit and move on.

Personally I would not convert a 38 Special GP-100 to .357 Magnum, not due to safety concerns but rather due to my personal affinity for the 38 Special models.
As others have stated, a 38 Special GP-100 can handle some very hot 38 Special loads (I would stay within SAAMI limits but that's another thread). Could you sell the gun to him "as is" and let him shoot it a while with the agreement that you'll ream the chambers later if he desires?

[dubber123]

It doesn't sound like you will miss it too much, or you wouldn't be considering the sale at all. You have done your homework on the metallurgy enough to make it sound like a safe conversion to me. Have at it. It will still be stamped .38 Spl., and 99% of future buyers would never be the wiser for it anyways. Tons of guys shoot .38's in their .357's with complete satisfaction.

[FergusonTO35]

.

Personally I would not convert a 38 Special GP-100 to .357 Magnum, not due to safety concerns but rather due to my personal affinity for the 38 Special models.

Agree completely. Why change an uncommon model that is gaining collector interest into one that is common as dirt? If the guy absolutely cant stand the .38 Special chambering just look for a spare cylinder or parts kit containing one. Then the original .38 cylinder and the value will be preserved.

[bearbud]

Thank you again for your replies and input. This thread showed me that a number of you are interested in 38 special only GP-100 revolvers. Davidson is selling the same model that I have, if any of you is interested. Go to Gallery of Guns item # 1728.

Bearbud

[DougGuy]

I *do* happen to have on hand a Clymer .357 finishing reamer, as well as a .3585" throater.

[triggerhappy243]

in this case.............. is the 38 spl cylinder the same length as the 357 cylinder?

[Petrol & Powder]

The GP-100 cylinders chambered in 38 Special are identical to the ones chambered in .357 mag except for the length of the chamber. Same holds true for the Six series Rugers.