Lyman 358-212 146 gr RN & 9mm - need source of loading data?

[bedbugbilly]

I normally use either the Lee 356-120 TC or the Lyman/Ideal 358-242 - both 120 ish grain weight over Bulls Eye in my 9mm. I am wanting to try a heavier boolit and plan on casting up some this next week out of my Lyman 358-212 146 ish gr weight RN mold.

These will be shot in a Ruger SR9 and a S & W 9mm Shield.

I have looked in my Lyman 2nd and 3rd Edition - Cast Boolit Handbook as well as my Lee and Speer manuals and have had no luck finding any data on a 145 gr. RN lead boolit in 9mm over Bulls Eye. I checked the Alliant site and it has nothing.

I know no one likes to give out data. I've done a search on here and found several references to the boolit from that mold over 3.0 and 3.2 gr of Bulls Eye - BUT - I was hoping to find some "published" data that gave the minimum and maximum grain weights for BE as well as COAL. I will certainly make up some "dummy" rounds to check the OAL fit in my chambers but was hoping that there was published data join that as well?

Can anyone steer me as to where I can find the data? I'm not looking to load "hot" - just want to know where to start and what is max. Normally, on my 120 is grain boolits, I'm loading at mid range of the min. & max. or a tad less than that and they cycle fine.

On my 358-2242 121 grain boolits I seat to the recommended COAL of 1.045" as shown in the 2nd Edition which brings the case mouth lip to a nice taper crimp at the top of the top band. I'm assuming that the 142 gr 358-212 146 gr. RN boolit would be seated in the same manner to the top of the top band?

I do have Red Dot and Unique as well. In my search here, I see that a number of folks use the 3580212 in 9mm Luger and I'm kind of surprised that the Lymn CBH doesn't show data beyond the 120 ish. grain weight. (All I have is the 2nd & 3rd Editions).

Thanks for any help or direction on where to find it or at least a proven starting point. Thanks.

[mwc]

I would use the data that is out there for 147 gr. cast, plated or 'coated'. A larger boolit generally uses less powder than lighter ones and as long as you work the loads up everything should work out ok. I have used BE-86 with 147's starting at 3.5 up to 4.5 and they work fine.

[rintinglen]

Ck with Tazman. He's a fan of this boolit in his 9 mm's. Were it I, I would load the boolit to 1.065 or a tad longer and then use Lyman's data for their 356-637 147 grain boolit. With a 150 grain MP boolit, I loaded 4.5 grains of Power Pistol and accuracy and function were excellent.

[tazman]

I use that boolit in my 9mm PT92 and it runs beautifully. I would love to come up with a 4 or 5 cavity mold in it.
I don't have any loaded at the moment so I can't give you a precise OAL for it but I can say I load it so a few thousandths of the front drive band is showing in front of the case mouth. This length feed well in my guns.
As far as powder goes, any of the slower midrange pistol powders will work. I have loaded it with AA7, Longshot, Herco, and CFE Pistol. All these powders gave good results.
I wasn't loading for max loads. I was looking for accuracy and function. I think the max loadings for the Lyman 356637 would apply here since the 358212 makes for a longer overall cartridge and has less boolit inside the case than the 356637 does. Several powder manufacturers supply data for 147 grain bullets and a couple even list for 147 grain cast.
I did chronograph 2 of the powders and that data is included here. These loads were shot in my Taurus PT92 with a Beretta 4.9 inch barrel.
As always, you use this data at your own risk. These were developed for my own pistols and work fine there.
AA7 5.5 grains 895fps
Herco 4.5 grains 885fps
Longshot 4.5 grains
CFE Pistol 4.2 grains
The Longshot and CFE loads felt a little snappier than the other 2 but I did not chronograph them. It may be just the difference in powders that made it feel this way.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks everyone for the help - greatly appreciate it. I did find a thread this morning on another site - evidently the information came out of the Lyman Pistol Loading Handbook (correct name/title?). Anyway - it gave the minimum of 2.8 gr. and a max. of 3.5 gr. of Bulls Eye for the 358-212 146 grain boolit.

I'm going to cast this afternoon and will start with the 2.8 minimum and see how my pistols cycle, etc. I'm not interested in loading "hot" - just curious how this boolit will work in my SR( and Shield.

I do have another question though . . .

Normally, I use my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks 9 2nd and 3rd Edition) for loading data for what I load as it usually provides all the information I need for what I load. I've never had a chance to take a look at the Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Edition (Loading Manual) so maybe someone can answer a question for me. Does the 49th Editon provide "more" information for a wider variety of Lyman/Ideal molds per each caliber than the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks do? Or is it a "re-hash" of the same information?

The reason I ask is that I have the latest Speer and Lee Loading Manuals. The Speer does give some info on cast but I bought the Lee thinking it would give information for each of their molds - I was sorely disappointed to see that it didn't - yes, it gives some info on different cast bullet weights but I don't care for it as much as I do my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks. After a bad experience with a Lee mold and their "attitude" towards it (and I have cast for over 50 years and have a number of Lee molds) - I have found myself "replacing" some of my Lees with similar Ideal/Lyman molds. If the Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Edition gives good data for most of the Ideal/Lyman molds, then I'd think it would be well worth the money to buy a hardcover copy for the reference library. Your opinions on the Lyman 49th Edition please?

Many thanks. Jim

[rintinglen]

Many of my favorite Lyman molds have fallen from grace and no longer appear in their Manuals. For example, the 358-212 has been discontinued for over 20 years and is long out of favor in print. The 49th handbook does have some load info for all of the molds they were currently manufacturing at the time of publication, but it also has more info on jacketed bullets. I use the 3rd and 4th edition cast handbooks about 3 times as often as I use the 49th edition. If I could only have one manual, given my current predilections, it would be the 3rd edition Cast Bullet Handbook, simply because it has more information on more older molds.

[tazman]

Rintinglen is right about the Lyman handbooks. I use them way more than any of the others I have and I have too many.
That said, the more manuals you have, the more data points you can reference. You can begin to see patterns in the loading data and get a better feel for what a powder, boolit combination will do. Still, when working with near max loads, I will stick to published data.
Even though they may not have your precise mold listed, you can often find a similar boolit(same weight or just a bit heavier) that is loaded to the same length or shorter, that you can use the data from.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks fellas - appreciate the information. I find myself using my 2nd and 3rd edition of the Cast Boolit Handbook more than any other reference I have. I have several older handbooks from the 50s and 60s that I sometimes go to but I still find myself going back to the Lyman CBH. I'll keep my eyes open and maybe I can snag an older version of the Lyman Manual. That's the problem . . . I like the "older" mods - especially some of the older Ideals that are no longer made - I can understand the data being "dropped" for them. Wen in doubt, I always load on the "conservative" side - I don't think I've ever loaded anything to "Max" - for the type of shooting I do - plinking, cans and a critter once in a while - the milder loads are sufficient! Thanks again! Greatly appreciate the info!

Jim

[tazman]

If you are looking for older loading manuals, go to castpics. They have a number of old manuals that you can download including some older Lyman manuals.
The Lyman 44th has a load for 9mm using the 358311 158 grain boolit.

[bedbugbilly]

tazman - thaks. I sent you a PM in regards to the 44th edition and what they show for the 9mm. I use the 358-311 all the time in my 38s - not planning on trying that heavy of a boolit in the 9mm but looking at the manual, it raised several questions I'm hoping you might be able to answer. Thanks.

Jim

[.22-10-45]

bedbug..this has nothing to do with 9mm..but I know you also like the old ones..that little 358212 was what I first used to get a 1971 era Colt .36 1851 navy fitted with a Kirst .38 long-colt conversion cyl. to shoot. I forced a soft lead as cast bullet in a .359 sizer die nose first until base was flush & chucked it up in a wood lathe & used a 5/16" ball-ended milling cutter to hollow base it. 3.0gr. Bullseye cuts cloverleafs at 25yds.

[bedbugbilly]

22-10-45 . . . funny you should mention that! LOL The main reason I picked up that particular mold was to slide them in to 38 Long Colt. :-) I just got a little "off course" when I started looking at using it in the 9mm - I picked up a new 9mm Shield for CCW to switch off to once in a while from my Smith 36 snub. I just wanted to play with a little heavier boolit than a 115 gr out of the Shield.

Sounds like it worked well in your conversion. A lot of work to get s boolit that would work but hey, the fun is in th "improvising" and making something work! Sounds like they did very well!

I cast some up the other day and hope to get them loaded this week to try in the 9mm. Once I get that load figured out it will be time to work on them in the 38 Long casing. I'm kind of anxious to see how they work over a full load of BP.

Thanks!