Making Boolit molds ~ Suggestions??

[Zaneiel]

I am tooling up next week to make some molds after i finish service on my CNC machine.

A few things come to mind:
1.) Slab wall molds for the powder coating folks out there (myself included).
452-200
310-155
224-060
[I can do others if you have something in mind]
2.) 200 or 230 grain TC style 6 or 8 gang boolit for my .45 1911
[452-200]
[452-230]

Anyone have suggestions for what they think may be good sellers?
Anyone need a mold made?

I can also do 1,2,4 or other Cavity Counts.
Thanks for the help :)

[minmax]

309-240 or 310-240 for 300blk out, and a 130gn for the same. Flat nose for the 30-30 would be nice. What are the prices going to be?

[dilly]

I have one piece of advice. If you make a mold for a powder coating application, be careful how big you make the nose. The powder adds a tiny bit of diameter on the nose and sometimes people have trouble chambering.

[mwells72774]

What are they going to be sitting at price wise?

I'd be interested in a 224-060 and a 452-200, both 4 cav

[Cowboy_Dan]

I have been looking for a .459 boolit of 255-270 gr for my oversized .45 Colt with unthroated chambers (.480" all the way down). Seems all the .45 rifle boolits are 200 and below or 300 and above.

[Zaneiel]

Dilly, thanks for the advise i will keep an eye on that!

Thanks for the feedback guys keep it coming, this is very helpful!

Pricing i think should be about 25 bucks per cavity

Goodsteel you have a point there but i have a day job i do this for fun :)

But i do have to cover materials etc.

[MBTcustom]

In my opinion, your price is too low. There is a lot that can go wrong with a run of molds, and you need that extra capitol to get the molds out right, no matter what.

I would also recommend that at first, you sell nothing that you have not already made, tested, and inventoried. You'll learn a lot of the idiosyncrasy's fast, but you wont go belly up while you're getting your feet under you.
Do not underestimate how fast this can snowball if things go wrong. Be prepared, and don't try to bite off a big chunk till you know what the meat tastes like. Be careful, charge a good price, do good work, and be more critical of your own work than any of us would be (within reason).

For the record, a two cavity aluminum mold that does what you say it will do (checked with a micrometer) is worth $80 IMHO.

[Zaneiel]

Thanks Goodsteel i will keep your advice in mind.
I have made a few molds allready and have come up with cnc programs to cut the mold blocks for me, that is alot of the work. I make the cherry out of tool steel on my lathe and cut the flutes on the mill. Also i usually make the cherry a thou or 2 large as most people use sizing dies. So if it runs 1 or 2 thou over its not a big deal. It helps keep cost down.

Also i would only work on a few different molds at a time, thats not to say i couldnt cut 20 of the same mold for a run etc etc. The cnc process takes care of most of the work, the cherry and mold cavities are done by hand though.

I like your idea of make the mold first before payment... that would be good edicate.

[MBTcustom]

As has been mentioned by the PC comment, ogive diameter dictates seating depth. Just something to keep in mind.
If you interpolate your cavities, you have much more control of the size, and you can be sure of it. We are spoiled rotten on Miheck, NOE, and Accurate, all of them make molds that will drop bullets within .0005 of stated size when you use the alloy specified for that mold.
A cavity that is off the stated size by .002 is a big turnoff to a lot of people, and they will return the mold or give a bad review.
Another reason to be absolutely sure you can hit your numbers is if you ever make GC designs.
Not trying to discourage you in any way, just telling you what to watch for. The custom mold market has some fierce competition these days, and expectations are sky high.

[dragon813gt]

A cavity that is off the stated size by .002 is a big turnoff to a lot of people, and they will return the mold or give a bad review.

The custom mold market has some fierce competition these days, and expectations are sky high.

Tom's specs are either +.002/-.000 or +-.001. I haven't ever bought one that wasn't on the money. But if it was +.002 it would be w/in spec. Most of us are fine w/ molds that drop a little large. But if they drop to small they're unacceptable.

I agree w/ the second part. But the more choices we have the better it is for the consumer.

[Zaneiel]

I agree you cant be under at all, and i can control the size of the mold with the cherry so i could be right on the money if needed. That being said.. sizers give us flexability to go a bit large and it ends up working in a wider variety of applications.
Cherry will be made and measured by micromiter. Cavity cut and tested with wheel weights and a bit of tin. Size recorded and stamped on the mold :) so other than any difference between my measuring tools and yours ... stated size should be dead on :)

[Red River Rick]

Good Luck on your VENTURE..............................

RRR

[Zaneiel]

Thanks RRR :) just figured i will get a few molds made for myself i have been wanting for a while and while im at it build a stock of cherry's so other folks can get some molds done as well :)

[Schnizel_fritz]

A dream come true would be a 358 115 tc mould for my 9mm. Without grooves for coating...

[P Flados]

I am tooling up next week to make some molds after i finish service on my CNC machine.

A few things come to mind:
1.) Slab wall molds for the powder coating folks out there (myself included).
452-200
310-155
224-060
[I can do others if you have something in mind]
2.) 200 or 230 grain TC style 6 or 8 gang boolit for my .45 1911
[452-200]
[452-230]

Anyone have suggestions for what they think may be good sellers?
Anyone need a mold made?

I can also do 1,2,4 or other Cavity Counts.
Thanks for the help :)

Of your stated choices, I am only interesting in shooting 30 cal.

I have a Lee C309-150-F and a C309-170-F. I am shooting these in a 14" TC 30 Herrett with ASBB PC and no GC. I am trying to work up good IHMSA loads.

I have been very interested in seeing how a slab side stacks up against a traditional rifle pattern with PC in lieu of GC.

I do not need one, but if you are making a run & want me to try one out just for the sake of comparison, I might could be convinced. I tend to do my hobbies "on the cheap", but when it comes down to it, paying a fair price for someone's effort is always the right thing to do.

On the other hand, if a "blemish" set of blocks needs a home, I am very not picky.

I will follow this thread.

Like others have said, be careful and good luck.

[jcren]

Good luck, and keep us posted. I can't seem to find my last mold to purchase, so I will have to keep buying!

[Zaneiel]

Of your stated choices, I am only interesting in shooting 30 cal.

I have a Lee C309-150-F and a C309-170-F. I am shooting these in a 14" TC 30 Herrett with ASBB PC and no GC. I am trying to work up good IHMSA loads.

I have been very interested in seeing how a slab side stacks up against a traditional rifle pattern with PC in lieu of GC.

I do not need one, but if you are making a run & want me to try one out just for the sake of comparison, I might could be convinced. I tend to do my hobbies "on the cheap", but when it comes down to it, paying a fair price for someone's effort is always the right thing to do.

On the other hand, if a "blemish" set of blocks needs a home, I am very not picky.

I will follow this thread.

Like others have said, be careful and good luck.

Those choices are just what I am already making. You are welcome to add to the list. Once I build a cherry they will become my staple molds. And you will be the first to get a mold cut with said brand new cherry :)

[Zaneiel]

A dream come true would be a 358 115 tc mould for my 9mm. Without grooves for coating...
I can do one of those, how many cavities would you like Schnizel_fritz? I will put you down on the list. also if you are sizing to .358 you probably want .359 or .360 ?

[Schnizel_fritz]

That would be great. I would like a 4 cavity mould. .358 will do fine i guess since i coat them, i calibrate to 357 or .358

[Zaneiel]

Ok i updated the list. Schnizel.
Service should be done on my machine within about a week or so and i have a couple of process steps to debug still.
I would like to be perfectly clear on things up front.

1. Molds dont come with handles but will have pins for lee or other handles.
2. Im not taking any money up front. I will work out the bugs and get the molds done. If for some reason we are unable to finish our project then only i am out of pocket.
3. Once i am happy with the molds i will take pics and notify you to have a look before you decide to pay.
4. I would appreciate feedback on how your mold performs and any suggestions for improvements.

Also i would like to thank the creators of this forum for giving us an outlet to discuss and plan things arround what we love to do.
And to all of you who have given me some great feedback. The people here are just top quality i love it here :)

As always i welcome your feedback and if you are reading this and would like a mold made send me a private message or post here and we can discuss the specifics.
Im going to be working hard this weekend to fine tune my process and my equipment. I have ordered stock and we should be good to go soon :)

~Cody

[MT Chambers]

2 words........460-405gr. FP, .382-255gr. fp.

[John Boy]

Cody, you'll probably experience the issue that most folks, if their smart, measure the lands-grooves diameter only . Then order the mold to to fit the grooves. What is not measured is the chamber for the case thickness + the base diameter ... and the reload won't chamber. Then they have to resize the bullets to be able to put a seated bullet in the case and chamber it with no thumbing. And the moaning begins: Example, I bought a 44WCF.430 mold and immediately the bullets had to be .427 to be able to chamber
So, will you be offering variable base diameters for a given mold using a specific alloy? Especially when you mentioned you'll cut them 0.001 to 0.002 over size

[Cap'n Morgan]

If your CNC can do helical interpolation, you really, really should machine the cavities while the mold is closed using an under-sized cherry instead of relying on a cherry ground to size. Perfect run-out and no alignments problems this way, besides, you can measure the cavities and compensate along the way as you're not limited by the cherry's exact diameter.

I cut my molds using one cherry for the nose profile and another cherry for cutting the cylindrical core, and then the grooves (well, not actually the grooves, but what forms the grooves as the cavity is an inverse boolit profile). That way I can control the length of the bearing surface as well as the width & depth of the grooves (and gas check shank, if any) all with one single tool. Of course it takes some programming to do, but if you work from a drawing it's no big deal.

Sadly, macro programming - where you just change a few variables instead of making a new program - is a dying art, but it would be just the ticket for programming different boolit sizes.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/macro-programming-fundamentals-167395/

[lkydvl]

I need a mold for 50 BMG..

650 grs or so, GC, Spire point, spitzer or semi spitzer. Single cavity will do

[MBTcustom]

Do you have any plans to make rifle molds?
Can you cut small noses?
Can you duplicate exact bullet designs (including the ogive) from autocad or solidworks drawings?
Tall order I know.
Can you make a 6 cavity mold with a camming sprue plate like Lee?
Are you going to offer brass, or aluminum only?
DO you have any clever and schnazy ideas for your sprue plates?
Do you have any plans to vent the top of the blocks?
On the subject of vent lines, what style do you want to use?
Alignment pins?
Do you think you'll do HP molds?
Sorry for all the questions.

I would be interested in a 4 cavity 311466 with a .150 meplat made of brass. Any chance?

[Zaneiel]

Thanks for all the replies guys.
To answer a few questions:

I am only making simple designs for now. that means flat base, simple FP, TC, RN type boolits. I may play with gas checks and the like in the future.

I am trying to keep the simplest of designs to start with and work my way up from there.

I could do Brass molds but brass is expensive as heck. I mean like 52 dollars per foot expensive. Unless someone could turn me on to a supplier those molds are going to cost at least 25 to 30 bucks more just in materials alone.

I don't have my lathe setup CNC yet so I can't make the cutters from CAD Drawings yet but I may upgrade my lathe to CNC if I get enough interest and make some Spitzer and other interesting styles.

I haven't tried to reproduce the LEE Camming sprue plates before I will have to take a look at one.

I plan to vent the mold faces with a fly cutter type tool. Should I be venting the top too?

Alignment pins will be short dowel type steel pins with rounded ends that slip into holes in the aluminum blocks but I have been thinking of making steel inserts for the aluminum side of the mold. I'm not sure what the popular opinion is on that subject maybe someone can enlighten me if it makes any difference. My molds seem to work fine for me the first way :)

I may consider HP molds in the future. I have been exploring the different Pin Designs but it seems like quite a bit of work.

[Zaneiel]

Just wanted to give a quick update. Machine service is just about done. Some things were delayed due to work backlog but the final stuff should be done early next week including new flood coolant system and enclosure upgrade.
So i should be able to get started on our molds mid to end of next week. I will post updates here as i progress.
Have a great weekend!

[MBTcustom]

Good luck sir! You're going to do well.

[sparky45]

I'm very interested in a "no lube grooved" bullet for my .380/9mm that's a two(2) cavity, either as a RN or a TC. What would cost be for such a mold?

[kywoodwrkr]

Zaneiel,
Read these references very closely. Then read again!
Lot of good information in these writings.
Macro programming is an extremely good friend of the machinist assuming controller ability.
I created mine while in class to make a simple(or not so simple bolt).
YMMV




If your CNC can do helical interpolation, you really, really should machine the cavities while the mold is closed using an under-sized cherry instead of relying on a cherry ground to size. Perfect run-out and no alignments problems this way, besides, you can measure the cavities and compensate along the way as you're not limited by the cherry's exact diameter.

I cut my molds using one cherry for the nose profile and another cherry for cutting the cylindrical core, and then the grooves (well, not actually the grooves, but what forms the grooves as the cavity is an inverse boolit profile). That way I can control the length of the bearing surface as well as the width & depth of the grooves (and gas check shank, if any) all with one single tool. Of course it takes some programming to do, but if you work from a drawing it's no big deal.

Sadly, macro programming - where you just change a few variables instead of making a new program - is a dying art, but it would be just the ticket for programming different boolit sizes.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/macro-programming-fundamentals-167395/

[Zaneiel]

Thanks again for the tips about helical interpolation. I am looking into it. I am also experimenting with cutting the cavities on a lathe with an undersize tool.
Milling them of course would be faster because of the lathe setup time. Dialing in a low end machine to have 0 backlash after cutting 50+ circles though may be problematic, i'll be doing some testing this week.

[376Steyr]

My words of advice: Never accept payment for a mould you don't have completed and ready to sell. If you can't ship it the day after payment arrives, don't sell it. Too much stuff can happen in a machine shop to delay production and throw off promised schedules.

[Maximumbob54]

I've been looking for a no lube groove 358-158 SWC mold for a while now. Hardline had one but it was bevel base. I don't care for bevel base on anything. A close follow up would be the same no lube groove in a nice size meplat round flat nose.

[Zaneiel]

My words of advice: Never accept payment for a mould you don't have completed and ready to sell. If you can't ship it the day after payment arrives, don't sell it. Too much stuff can happen in a machine shop to delay production and throw off promised schedules.

I totally agree. If you have been following along with this thread you will have seen that I state just that in post #20. I will not take any payment until I am Happy with the way a mold comes out. I also have a little more process to figure out before I start making any quantities. Right now we are just messing around and hope to get some nice molds for our troubles.

[Zaneiel]

Hey guys i have a quick update for you all.
After the maintenence on my machine i was calibrating and discovered i have an issue in my x axis.
The short story is i wont be doing any helical interpolation cutting because the axis could be out almost .001 in some spots and in others be dead on.
If i tell it to move .100 it is spot on but telling it to move .010 it sometimes moves only .009.
This isnt an issue for the cherry cut process or lathe cut process but it rules out the interpolation unless we want egg boolits :)
I am looking into replacing the leadscrew or doing leadscrew mapping but i want to make some chips so it will have to wait for now.

Last night i got some of the new programs written for the cnc process and i have my basic proces down which i will fine tune as i build the first molds.

So the part we have been waiting for...... i should be able to kick out some molds on this 3 day weekend ;)

I will be starting with the slabwall molds since that is my main focus here and the lube groove molds take a bit more time but if time allows i will do some of thwm too.
Otherwise i will be doing lube groove style boolits next week.

I will try to break away from time to time to post some pics asuming i dont hit any derailing snags :)

[Maximumbob54]

Yes, yes, totally understand all of that. The flux capacitor is out of cal. Fleagenhiemer needs adjustment. Got it. Warp drive out of commission. Ok then.

Still can't wait to see the results.

[lobowolf761]

Yes, yes, totally understand all of that. The flux capacitor is out of cal. Fleagenhiemer needs adjustment. Got it. Warp drive out of commission. Ok then.

Still can't wait to see the results.
But Captain I'm giving her all she got.[emoji15]

[rockrat]

Something for the 45acp in around 180-185gr and maybe a duplicate of the Lee 314-90 swc in a 5 or 6 cav. I would think would be well received.

[Rio]

I need a specific designed mold 2 cavity. Can you send me a private message?

[Zaneiel]

After tinkering for a bit and taking into consideration all of your comments I have come to the conclusion that the most versatile way to do the cavities is either on the mill with Interpolation or with a rotary table. I love the Idea of making boolit styles and cutting many different calibers instead of making 100 one off cherry's. So to that end my work is put on hold and I am focusing my attention back to my X axis. I have a couple of ideas to get it fixed. I am eager to try out all these different boolits but If i put in the time to shore up my machine we will all reap the rewards :) I have considered cutting molds on the lathe but there is quite a bit of fixture work involved and quite frankly although a very cool and do-able idea ... it is a lot more work and slows production.

I want to thank all of you for your help and suggestions. I really do listen and consider all you guys say and it has helped me a great deal.
I will post an update when I get over this hurdle.
Have a great weekend!

[Zaneiel]

I just wanted to give an update: i am replacing part of my machine. Parts are on order and this should take care of the accuracy issues. I should be able to have parts installed and do some testing this weekend :)

[Schnizel_fritz]

I have to pass on my mold since i just bought a similar from Miha

[Maximumbob54]

Still in it for the long haul. And I guess a bump to see if anyone else is interested.

[Zaneiel]

I got the machine partially putback together, still have to make a new mount for the stepper motor. Hopefully can do the testing this weekend and see if i got the accuracy i need.
I'll post an update if i get any results before then.

[jcren]

Still following, looking forward to seeing g what you can do.

[Zaneiel]

I just wanted to give an update on this. I havent forgotten about this just yet. Something about working a full day and then coming home and working 8 to 10 hours drags you down rather quickly. I still need to finish the stepper motor mount on my mill. I got an adapter made this past weekend. Slow progress but moving along just the same. Taking it easy for a couple weeks then digging in again if i can get the mill to do what i want it to. Thanks for reading and all the advice!

[Cowboy_Dan]

Just wondering if there was any updates on this project in the last month.

[Dragonheart]

I am tooling up next week to make some molds after i finish service on my CNC machine.

A few things come to mind:
1.) Slab wall molds for the powder coating folks out there (myself included).
452-200
310-155
224-060
[I can do others if you have something in mind]
2.) 200 or 230 grain TC style 6 or 8 gang boolit for my .45 1911
[452-200]
[452-230]

Anyone have suggestions for what they think may be good sellers?
Anyone need a mold made?

I can also do 1,2,4 or other Cavity Counts.
Thanks for the help :)

I started a thread "Possible Light Weight Hollow Base 9mm Bullet Mold"
under "Group Buy Discussions" . I think this might be of interest and at least something different.

[Zaneiel]

Sorry no updates. The inaccuracy of the milling machine has me working on machine tools again. I hope to get back to this project before summer. A friend and i are building a couple of larger lathes 3 ft between centers and 12 inch swing to give you an idea of the size. Hopefully the build of these new cnc machines doesnt take more than a few months. :)

[xfoxofshogo]

I use to make some slab side molds for PC and yes they all shoot good in sub sonic but only a few above that GC did help in testing

[Zaneiel]

Update time:
It is well before summer and project is back in the works.
Milling machine is fixed and dead on the money now. (only had to tare the whole X axis apart and replace the screw, make new stepper motor mounts and dial it all in).
My son is now helping me with the project to make extra money while he goes to college so I am teaching him as we go :)
We are making new boolit mold cutters this weekend and will be running some test pours checking dropped boolit size and adjusting CNC programs accordingly.
First 2 cutters are going to be Keith and TC styles followed by Spitzer for some 300 blackout fun :)
I refer to the cutters as styles because I plan to cut all calibers within a given style with a single cutter thanks to Cap'n Morgan (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?5736-Cap-n-Morgan) for introducing me to helical interpolation!
For example: once i make a TC style cutter, i can cut any size boolit mold with it within reason. .357, .45, .44 etc etc and change the depth of cut to increase or decrease the bullet weight.
I got fixtures and a whole bunch of tooling made already so it is looking good.

More updates to come!

[jcren]

Still with ya. Have at least 3 molds I would like to have.

[Zaneiel]

Got a cutter made for .308 - .312 today. turns out the laws of physics won't let the nose profile fit on a cutter as small as .200 that would cut a .223 through .454 so 1 cutter for all calibers just plain won't work for the styles I want to do at least but there is some overlap so that is good news. for instance i can make a cutter that could cut .356 through .359 or .429 through .453 and so on. Anyway some nice progress today. Tomorrow I will be cutting test cavities and see what kind of damage we can do :)

[Zaneiel]

Update:
Cutters made for Keith style traditional lube groove and powder coat 300 blackout.
I was successful cutting mold cavities on the CNC mill but it was taking so long that I abandoned that for now.
I ended up making a fixture for the lathe and it is working out quite nicely.
Finishing some setup on the lathe and I hope to be cutting some molds this weekend.
I am also making cutters for Powder coat TC style boolits next. should be covering .380 through .45

[country gent]

What you might try is a roughing cutter/drill with close to nose profile and smooth sided at just under grease grooves dia. With this you could drill the cavity close to where it has to be. then a true form cutter ( I would try gringing it on a end mill 2 flute HSS cobalt with grooves and nose profile to what you want and use this for a circle pocket type cut. The 2 flutes with a solid flow of coolant should clear chips well and allow for clean cuts. In this way your form cutter is only cutting .030 or so out of the cavity. By pre drilling the cavity with a formed drill your removing most of the metal quick and easy. Leaving the rough .010-.015 under smallest dia allows for all surfaces to be cleaned up and true with the finish form cutter. With a form for the nose and slightly under smallest dia a cutter similar to a woodruff key cutter could posibly be used also. It would need to be a dia to fit into hole and as wide as the driving bands,

[country gent]

Oh and when grinding the cutters remeber to back of so the edges are truly sharp and capable of cutting. just grinding a form leaves a cylindrical form with no relief to allow the edge to cut

[Zaneiel]

Thanks for the tips, i'm using 2 different size drill bits to remove most of the material but a form drill would be allot better.

[Zaneiel]

Oh and when grinding the cutters remeber to back of so the edges are truly sharp and capable of cutting. just grinding a form leaves a cylindrical form with no relief to allow the edge to cut

When you say back off, that is the part i'm not getting i think.
Everyone casually says "with proper relief" or "relieved".
I Have been having trouble getting the proper relief on the form. if it were a straight reamer it would be easy :)

I have quote requests out to a few companies that grind tooling.
I am going to order an expensive custom ground cutter and either continue doing so or try to copy what I get.

At some point you have to ask yourself....Do i want to make the hammer.... or just buy the hammer so i can drive that darn nail!

[country gent]

Backing off the cutter is relieving the back of the sides so there is a sharp cutting edge that dosnt rub behind the cutting edge. Look at the sides of an endmill under magnification they are below the cutting edge on the sides. A simple fixture and hand stoning can accomplish this. A cherry or form cutter needs to be backed off to allow cutting otherwise it simply rubbs