120 TC 9mm Loads

[302w]

I've done a bit of homework, and I am wondering if I should pull my bullets or if I am overthinking things.

My 60's Lyman manaul lists 3.7 (IIRC, possibly lower)-4.8 grains of Bullseye for a 124 grain bullet. I cast/loaded some at 3.8 grains, and they felt kinda stout in a S&W 9mm Shield. I decided to make a box of 50 at 3.9-4.0 grains. Should I pull them?

Current load: 1.095" COAL, 120 TC Lee PCed, Win SPP, Fed brass.

4.8 grains would be something fierce.

[Bzcraig]

Lyman's 4th lists 3.7 - 4.1 so your loads should be fine.

[tazman]

My Alliant manual from 2005 lists a max of 4.9 of Bullseye with a 125 grain lead boolit. I am not certain I would trust that heavy a load.

[Springfield]

If the 3.8 felt kinda stout, why did you make the 4.0 loads?

[wcp4570]

I've loaded 4.0 gr of bullseye with the lee 120tc And shoots well in a s&w m&p. Your shield is a light gun so it will have more felt recoil than the m&p. The load has not been a problem for me.

wcp

[cpaspr]

Alliant says 4.7gr is a max load for a 115gr Speer Gold Dot and 4.4gr is max for a 124gr Gold Dot. The Lee die load sheet shows 4.3 - 4.9gr for a 125gr bullet, but doesn't indicate cast or jacketed. Generally, lead bullets develop less pressure than jacketed for the same amount of powder behind the same weight and shape bullet. Speer Gold Dots have considerably more bearing surface than the Lee 120gr TC.

My bullets from this mould drop at 118gr. Based on the above (plus some other reading), and after working up, I found 4.8gr of Bullseye under this bullet to be an accurate load in my gun. Not recommending for anyone else, but I didn't think the recoil was harsh at all.

Hmm. The Shield weighs 19 oz. My gun weighs 23.4 oz. The weight difference shouldn't account for much, but the difference in recoil spring weights might.

[302w]

Thanks guys.

I should try some commercial 9mm..it's quite possible I have been shooting wimpy loads prior to this.

[mr surveyor]

Thanks guys.

I should try some commercial 9mm..it's quite possible I have been shooting wimpy loads prior to this.


if they cycle the slide, they're probably not too wimpy. ;)


jd

[Garyshome]

wimpy 9mm loads? I better stop here.
Do you have a Chrongraph?

[302w]

I do not own a chronograph.

My game plan as of the moment is to work up a few loads, and compare them to some Perfecta and maybe some older UMC that I have. The UMC amuses me because it is the old yellow box non-Remington stuff.

[GabbyM]

For load data. What is important with charge weight to a certain bullet weight. Is the depth inside the case.
Lyman 122 grain TC load data can be transferred to the various 122 gr TCFP cast bullets. However the cartridge overall length. C.O.L. will be different to have similar pressure and velocity. For instance. The Saeco 122 TCFP at 1.050" has the same seating in case depth as the Lyman #356402 bullet does at it's listed length of 1.110". It's a case volume thing. Lyman bullet has a long nose running out to a point with a small diameter ogive. Saeco bullet and the Magma TCFP have a wider meplat thus shorter nose. Lead hanging our in eh air in the bore means little. It's a case volume plus bullet weight metric. Lead angel is in play but one TC is about like the other. Especially since we load them to just off the groves. Full sized diameter front band is where the metal meats the road. Lead angle is a fine tune thing.

Bullet weight and distance of the front band to rifling plus how deep the bullet goes into case taking up powder space are important considerations. After that you fine tune.

In addition. With the 9mm case capacity deviation is huge. With the deep seating truncated cone bullets many cases are tapered to thick to allow seating of the bullets without bulging cases. European cases should simply be discarded as scrap IMO. 124 grain round nose lead or jacketed bullets seat much more shallow than 122 gr TC bullets. Not all brands of cases in 9mm can be sued with 122gr TC or the 147gr FP bullets.

[igolfat8]

European cases should simply be discarded as scrap IMO. 124 grain round nose lead or jacketed bullets seat much more shallow than 122 gr TC bullets. Not all brands of cases in 9mm can be sued with 122gr TC or the 147gr FP bullets.

Hmmm, that is the first that I have heard of this. What brands specifically? Care to elaborate?

[gpidaho]

GabbyM brings up a very good point. I wish load data referenced seating depth in a given volume case as COL is of very little help unless your using the exact boolit the tester was using. Gp

[Ed_Shot]

The Lee 356-120-TC is .560 long while the Lyman 356402 is .624 long. Both boolits have the same nominal weight and the exact same bearing surface. The Lyman 4th Ed CB Handbook calls for a COAL of 1.110 for the 356402. Therefore you can load the Lee 356-120-TC to a COAL of 1.046 and maintain the same boiler room inside the 9MM case as that used by the Lyman 356402. I load the Lee 366-120-TC to a COAL of 1.055 and use Lyman load data for the Lyman 356402 in several different 9MM's with great success.

[GabbyM]

Hmmm, that is the first that I have heard of this. What brands specifically? Care to elaborate?

It's one of those guilty until proven innocent things. Europe ammo is not made to SAMI spec.
My experience is out dated. Going back to the 1970's. Stuff like Geco that had such thick cases a load of Blue Dot that was fine in other brass. Would lose it's primer while in the magazine of my M39-2 S&W pistol. Can't recall but about two reloads and he primers would fall out in the magazine from recoil. That's how much the heads would be expanded. There were several other cases like that also. 9x19mm is simply not a caliber to go mixing head stamps with. I've heard different but I call BS on all of that silliness. I'm not on my home computer right now and have no access to load records. But to be short. to find a brand of brass to load deep seating bullets like 122 gr TC or 147gr FP. Use your calipers to reach into the case to your seat depth. You are looking for how far down from the mouth the case tapers to a thick dimension. It's not a slight thing and easily measured. After you have a brand and batch you are good to go. Details like that and the fact most 9mm die expanders are to short to use with deep seating 9mm bullets like the TC is one of the many reason shooters have a hard time with cast in 9mm.

[therealhitman]

Primers flat? Cratered or flowed/ringed? I still look for pressure signs...I'm old fashioned that way.

[Jupiter7]

Primers flat? Cratered or flowed/ringed? I still look for pressure signs...I'm old fashioned that way.

Also a waste of time. You will not find anything reading pressure signs on 9mm brass short of extractor marks and if you've found those, pray, because you are lucky you didn't die or get seriously injured. Certain guns have small differences(Glock primers are easily spotted) in what they do to brass but using those to extrapolate some info on pressure is useless. The only true sign of over pressure in 9mm is brass failure (assuming brass wasn't in bad condition).

[zomby woof]

3.8 WST with that boolit works very well out of my Witness