New Zealand Defense Forces to purchase American Rifle to replace AUG

[Artful]

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2015/08/17/New-Zealand-military-chooses-US-firm-for-new-rifle/4741439836463/


New Zealand military chooses U.S. firm for new rifleNew Zealand Ministry of Defense selects Lewis Machine & Tool of Illinois as preferred tenderer for the replacement of army rifles.

By Richard Tomkins (http://www.upi.com/author/Richard-Tomkins/) | Updated Aug. 17, 2015 at 6:05 PM

WELLINGTON, New Zealand, Aug. 17 (UPI) -- An American gun manufacturer has been named the preferred tenderer to supply the New Zealand Defense Force with a new combat rifle.

The selection of Illinois-based Lewis Machine & Tool as the preferred tenderer was announced by the New Zealand Ministry of Defense last week following a trials program phase of the contract evaluation process.



The New Zealand Defense Force currently uses Steyr AUG rifles, a 5.56×45mm assault rifle designed in the 1960s. The replacement of about 8,800 rifles is part of a larger firearms replacement program.

In competition against Lewis Machine & Tool were: Beretta New Zealand Limited, Ceska zbrojovka a.s., Colt Canada Corporation, FN Herstal, Steyr Mannlicher GmbH, XTEK Limited and Heckler & Kock GmbH.

Additional details were not disclosed by the Ministry of Defense.

Wow - interesting


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byZPhAVoqdI

http://www.army.mil.nz/our-capability/firepower/weapons-upgrade.htm

[Gofaaast]

More good news for one of the many firearm manufacturers here in the QCA.

[Von Gruff]

And good news for the NZDF to be getting better firearms.

[jonp]

No Aussie or Kiwi Manu's?

[JeffinNZ]

And good news for the NZDF to be getting better firearms.

Hey Gruff. Ya reckon we'll get a chance to buy the AUG's in semi auto format like we did the SLR's? Good wallaby gun! I doubt it will get the chance.

That vidya clip for the 7.62mm BTW.

[Von Gruff]

Don't think so Jeff. Havent heard anything but I imagine they will still be in use for training and base staff and only those who may be deploying will get the new ones as I see in the blurb linked above.

quote In order to do this the programme will consider the needs and requirements of Army, Navy and Air Force elements and will ensure that all service personnel, regardless of service, have the small arms necessary to operate and succeed on operations.

I don't think I could bring myself to use one of those ugly aug's so not bothered if they offer them or not.

[DCM]

No other more reliable candidates tested?? Hmmmmm smells fishy, but things stunk in the U.S. back in the 60s too.
Go figure.

[JeffinNZ]

No other more reliable candidates tested?? Hmmmmm smells fishy, but things stunk in the U.S. back in the 60s too.
Go figure.

Here is a good link. Numerous other rifles tested.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/28/confirmed-lmt-to-supply-nzdf-with-cqb16/

[DCM]

OK but I am still smelling a McNamara here

[3006guns]

Built by Lewis Machine & Tool?

So, after all these years the worm turns and we go back to the Lewis Gun...........:)

[Larry Gibson]

I have used and tested a lot of different AR15/M16 lowers made by numerous different companies and contractors. When I decided to buy another AR15 lower of my own the LMT was my top choice. It is the best made lower. I have also inspected several of LMT's complete AR rifles and find them superior to any other. The Kiwi's made the right choice for an AR.

Larry Gibson

[W.R.Buchanan]

Wow! 8800 guns? Now that's a contract!

I'd love to get the contract to provide just the Slings for those guns!

LMT should be pretty happy and it is a great testament to the guns quality if they got past all the other competitors on that list.

I'd love to have one but I really can't justify a $3000 AR.

Randy

[DCM]

What problems if any were they having with the Steyr???
They say "The New Zealand Defense Force currently uses Steyr AUG rifles, a 5.56×45mm assault rifle designed in the 1960s", OK when was the M16 designed?
"Additional details were not disclosed by the Ministry of Defense" Sounds like McNamara to me.
It will be interesting to see real reports from folks in combat of what they think of their longer "newer" rifles.

[725]

I've shot the AUG - semi & full - and I loved it. Light, hit what I was looking at, easy to function. Tried to get the department to go for 'em but the deal for M-16's was already set.

[Artful]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/06/17/nzdf-replace-steyr-aug/



Defence Minister Jonathan Coleman says the Government has given approval for the NZDF to seek a replacement for the Steyr rifle.“It is important NZDF personnel are well equipped and have effective modern rifles suited to today’s operational environment,” says Dr Coleman.“The Steyr rifle has served the NZDF well for over 20 years and it has seen considerable operational use, but it is now reaching the end of its lifespan. Weapon technology has advanced considerably since the NZDF purchased the Steyr rifle in 1987.

“Modern rifles can be adapted to individual needs, maximising the effectiveness of the weapon. They can be fitted with a range of advanced day and night sights (http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/sights/sight-sets/hd-tritium-night-sight-sets-for-glock--prod42614.aspx), and other specialised equipment. They can also be adjusted to suit different body sizes, and for the wearing of personal kit.

“NZDF personnel need a rifle that can be optimised for a range of situations. Operational experience in Afghanistan and Timor-Leste highlighted the importance of effectively identifying and engaging targets in various settings.

“The Steyr replacement is part of a wider personal weapons replacement programme. New light machine guns, combat shotguns and designated marksman rifles have been introduced to service. Future projects are also planned to look at the in-service pistol, sniper rifles, and grenade launchers.”

The Government has given approval for the Ministry of Defence to conduct a competitive tender process to purchase an ‘off the shelf’ rifle to replace the Steyr rifle with a new fleet of up to 8,800 rifles and associated accessories. The NZDF will trial short-listed weapons against the NZDF user requirements and a recommendation will be made to Cabinet early next year. The new rifle is expected to be introduced into service by 2016-17.

Some reported problems
AD's - I won't blame this on the rifle but training...
One: They dunked them in seawater and they refused to fire.
Two: After several magazines on fired full auto, they experienced overheating problems which caused binding of some of the plastic (nylon, I believe) parts and even evidence of melting.
Most of these reports were Auzzie made guns no Austrian made guns from what I'm finding.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11278332


Army bosses say it's "unlikely" that 9,000 assault rifles, hated by Kiwi soldiers for being under-powered and unreliable, will be sold to other militaries when phased out over the next few years.

The Austrian-made Steyr 5.56mm rifle was bought by the Defence Force in 1987.

But squaddies fighting in hot-spots like Afghanistan had complained that it was prone to stoppages and lacked an effective range.

A 2011 Ministry of Defence study found the rifles {Optic's?} were not powerful enough to "identify accurately adversaries" and was "ineffective at ranges greater than 200m".

Cabinet agreed in 2008 that better weapons were needed.

That news prompted serving and former soldiers at the time to vent online.

"It is a highly overrated assault rifle and if given the choice, I would rather throw stones at the enemy than carry that stoppage prone piece of ****," one ex-soldier wrote on The Firearm Blog.

Another serving New Zealand Army member agreed: "The accuracy on my issued rifle was terrible ... I'd have been lucky to hit the side of a barn."

On Tuesday Defence Minister Jonathan Coleman confirmed the Government has granted approval for replacement guns.

"It is important NZDF personnel are well equipped and have effective modern rifles suited to today's operational environment," says Dr Coleman.

"Weapon technology has advanced considerably since the NZDF purchased the Steyr rifle in 1987."

The Ministry of Defence is now conducting a competitive tender process to purchase 8,800 "off the shelf" replacement rifles and associated accessories.

The Defence Force will trial short-listed weapons before a recommendation will be made to Cabinet early next year. The new rifle is expected to be introduced into service by 2016-17.

Firearms and military online forums were abuzz with chatter about the move. Some enthusiasts wondered whether they could buy one of the discontinued guns from the army.

An accepted rate seemed to around $500.

However, one poster calling themselves 'Kiwi Shooter' said: "NZDF have always destroyed old gear rather than sell to civilians."

Asked this week what the Defence Force planned to do with the guns, a spokesman said it was looking at "most efficient and cost-effective way" to dispose of the Steyrs.

"As part of this project, all feasible options for the disposal of the Steyr fleet will be considered," the spokesman said.

"On-sale to any party is unlikely, although this will be assessed in more detail once the disposal project is initiated."

The Defence Force is also wanting to buy new light machine guns, combat shotguns, sniper rifles, pistols, and grenade launchers.

[303Guy]

hated by Kiwi soldiers for being under-powered and unreliable, Doh!

I do wonder about the choice of caliber though. But for New Zealand to go off on its own with a different caliber wouldn't be very wise I would imagine and it wouldn't be off the shelf.

[PAT303]

So what ''assault'' rifle can fire a couple of mags on full auto and not get hot?, an AUG 5.56 is under powered but a AR 5.56 isn't?. Pat

[Artful]

So what ''assault'' rifle can fire a couple of mags on full auto and not get hot?, an AUG 5.56 is under powered but a AR 5.56 isn't?. Pat

All get hot but some have problems
- see current issues with HK G36's (another polymer gun) that is exhibiting the same dump 2-3 hundred rounds thru and can't hit a man at 200 yards reliably.

And as far as 5.56 being underpowered
- it depends upon what you wanted done
- the doctorine of the 1950's was it takes 4 men off the front line to care for a wounded soldier, nothing about lethality or stopping power was the choice when decision was made - but lots of demo's of shooting water filled cans and watermelon's to show hydrostatic force at work.

Complaints of 223 "penciling" thru Taliban with the "green" ammo - the old 55 grain from some of it's makers had a penchant for breaking the projectile into multiple pieces at the Cannelure and causing more damage in the field. As did some German 308 I tested.

And of course they could redesign a 5.56 bullet to copy the 5.45x39 russian with airspace up front to help tumble in flesh - so called poison bullet.

[PAT303]

So your saying you can fire 300 rounds through an AR on full auto and then hit a man reliabily at 200?,yep,I'd like to see that.Just to put two sides to the story,the Australian AUG's have been used everywhere,from the Jungles of Asia to the Deserts of the middle east and they haven't experienced the problems the Kiwi's have had.I like the bit about the scope not being good enough past 200m,makes you wonder how the British and Australian soldiers shot the Lee Enfield to 1000m with iron sights,war must have been easier then. Pat

[JeffinNZ]

It's worth remembering that the only reason NZ went with the AUG to begin with was the US State Dept threw out the anchors on our desire to buy M16's when we went Nuke Free. The M16A2 was first bet.

I've used an AUG. Terrible trigger but otherwise OK.

[quasi]

Lot's of countries that do not use the AR-15 for their regular army use the AR-15 for their S.F. Like Britain, Norway, Some German units,....

[bruce drake]

Jeff, If NZ really wanted to have gotten the AR platform after you guys went Nuke-free, they could have bought from the Canadian government as Colt of Canada is a completely separate legal entity and the purchase of Canadian C7 or C8 rifles would have given you a very good quality AR system.

I think the final decision came from money and interoperability with your nearest ally, Australia. Australia was committed to purchasing the Aug Steyr in 1987 at the same time your government was looking for a replacement of your older FALs. The NZ Government's initial purchase was for 5000 actual Steyr-made AUGs but since the 90's all your AUGs that have come into service as additional stocks or replacements for worn out weapons have been built at ADI (Now Thales Australia) in Australia as they hold a license from Steyr to make the weapons in that country. Its a lot easier and cheaper to fly AUGs in from Australia then to ship M16s from Canada or any other AR licensed country.

[Artful]

So your saying you can fire 300 rounds through an AR on full auto and then hit a man reliabily at 200?,yep,I'd like to see that. Pat

Well at 420 rounds it does appear the gas tube melts on an AR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzfm4pYhIyY

[PAT303]

Goes to show the stupidity of the people making the decisions,no soldier carries 10 mags into combat and then shoots all ten mags at once,unless he's a keyboard mall ninja one. Pat

[303Guy]

Did you look at the video of the barrel blowing after more than 800 rounds? The gas tube and barrel were both glowing red!

[Artful]

Did you look at the video of the barrel blowing after more than 800 rounds? The gas tube and barrel were both glowing red!
Do you have a link? - I've got one of a M60 at 1,600+
but doesn't really apply to assault rifle.

[303Guy]

This is the one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw

[Artful]

Interesting his rate of fire is a little slower and his barrel is a little thicker
and of course his flashhider/brake was shot off.

[WRideout]

Goes to show the stupidity of the people making the decisions,no soldier carries 10 mags into combat and then shoots all ten mags at once,unless he's a keyboard mall ninja one. Pat

One of my favorite quotes of all time comes straight from the manual for the M60 machine gun, describing how to deal with an overheated barrel: "In combat, anything goes."

Wayne

[PAT303]

Personal rifles aren't MG's. Pat

[robertbank]

I have used and tested a lot of different AR15/M16 lowers made by numerous different companies and contractors. When I decided to buy another AR15 lower of my own the LMT was my top choice. It is the best made lower. I have also inspected several of LMT's complete AR rifles and find them superior to any other. The Kiwi's made the right choice for an AR.

Larry Gibson

Just out of curiosity Larry what makes one identical lower better than another identical lower. I don't own the AR as I have no reason right now to own one. I understand some trigger groups and internal parts have netter reputations than others but beyond that???

If the N.Z. government works like ours, the bean counters and politicians had more to do with this purchase than the military. The AR platform made by most anybody is a pretty safe purchase politically but a step forward using the varmint cartridge like the .223/556mm?

Take Care

Bob

[JeffinNZ]

I would have rather them take on a piston driven action. Seems they are swapping out 40 year old technology for 60 year technology.

Favourable reports thus far. My LGS is owned by an ex NZDF armourer. He had the boys from Burnham stop in with the test guns the other week.

[sthwestvictoria]

One of my favorite quotes of all time comes straight from the manual for the M60 machine gun, describing how to deal with an overheated barrel: "In combat, anything goes."

Wayne
amazing reading the autobiography "Chickenhawk" about flying the Huey in Vietnam. The author describes his gunners carrying several M60 barrels. If one got too worn they would unlock the barrel, then fire a round to jettison the old barrel before fitting the new!

obviously Australia is wedded to the Aug, with recent announcements of an upgrade, however our SAS are always photographed with an M4 variant in the Middle East. Curious.

http://i.imgur.com/OGY6QUN.jpg