BP shuts down a refinery

[DCP]

BP shuts down a refinery and we get the shaft.

Gas station raise prices over night

By gas and gas only at gas stations stop buying your drinks and foods

BUY GAS ONLY

[DCP]

News just said it could spread to the entire nation
Mods if this is in the wrong place please move.

BUY GAS ONLY

[dtknowles]

News just said it could spread to the entire nation
Mods if this is in the wrong place please move.

BUY GAS ONLY

What and why. I don't buy gas at gas stations, I buy gas at convenience stores. Why should I not buy smokes or snuff there too. They have the best prices on gas and smokes.

Tim

[white eagle]

there was a time (not long ago)a raise in price that drastic would be called price gouging
seems to be the norm these days
its to bad that big money needs more and more off the backs of the little guy

[Hawks Feather]

Our prices went up two days ago when they heard that there might be a problem. So much for all the talk about gas below $2.00 a gallon.

Edit: This must mean that BP is refining all of the different brands since they ALL jumped their price.

[SteveS]

"I believe this refinery issue to be a speed bump — albeit a large speed bump — on the road to lower prices," DeHaan said. "I still expect gas prices to come down ... and, as we approach Christmas, could still knock on the door of $2 a gallon."

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/great-lakes-gas-prices-jump-partial-refinery-shutdown-33043117

[DCP]

What and why. I don't buy gas at gas stations, I buy gas at convenience stores. Why should I not buy smokes or snuff there too. They have the best prices on gas and smokes.

Tim

This is why the American people will always get shafted. These poor sheep will always get eaten by the wolfs. They will never fight back

[jcwit]

What and why. I don't buy gas at gas stations, I buy gas at convenience stores. Why should I not buy smokes or snuff there too. They have the best prices on gas and smokes.

Tim

As usual its way over Tim's head!

Maybe it's what he smokes.

[jcwit]

Our prices went up two days ago when they heard that there might be a problem. So much for all the talk about gas below $2.00 a gallon.

Edit: This must mean that BP is refining all of the different brands since they ALL jumped their price.

Right, and this one refinery produces all the gas for 6 or more states?

Do I really believe this.

[Artful]

Right, and this one refinery produces all the gas for 6 or more states?

Do I really believe this.

Easy to check
Refineries
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2012.07.19/refinerymaplarge.png
Pipelines
http://www.api.org/~/media/oil-and-natural-gas-images/pipelines/2014-pipeline-maps/liquid-pipelines-map-530.jpg?la=en
Of course there is the "special" blend fuel requirements by the EPA that can only be sold during certain times in certain states.

[snowwolfe]

Isnt it funny they jack up the price because of refinery issues acting like the supply is low. Yet when was the last time any of us pulled up to a pump to find they were out of gas?

[dtknowles]

As usual its way over Tim's head!

Maybe it's what he smokes.

What is over my head, gas here is $2.219 today, why should I not buy stuff at the associated convenience store? Why do people post stuff here trying to tell me what to do that makes no sense and then not explain their rationale?

Tim

[blackthorn]

And it aint just you guys!!! Prices at the pump here in Kamloops BC jumped over 10 cents a liter last night or this morning. That would be over 40 cents a gallon if we were not on that stupid metric @##*

[SteveS]

This is why the American people will always get shafted. These poor sheep will always get eaten by the wolfs. They will never fight back

Do you really think that if you stop buying cigs at the gas station you will somehow effect the price of gas?

[dtknowles]

This is why the American people will always get shafted. These poor sheep will always get eaten by the wolfs. They will never fight back

You fight your battles I will fight mine. My gas station/convenience store has low gas prices often close to the lowest in the nation and has the lowest price on cigarettes in the area. Why would I punish myself to punish them when they are a asset to the neighborhood. Sometimes I might buy something else there especially when it is late at night and the other stores are closed.

I think this is a case of another person posting an incomplete message. Did you mean that if my gas station raised its price an unreasonable amount then I should not give them my business as they are a bad actor? Gas prices have only been going down here in the last few weeks not up.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Isnt it funny they jack up the price because of refinery issues acting like the supply is low. Yet when was the last time any of us pulled up to a pump to find they were out of gas?

It is not funny, it is routine. The pump prices always jump up on bad news and are slow to go back down on good news. It has been that way for decades. It is how that market works. They are slow to react to dropping oil prices and quick to react to rising oil prices. They all do it because they can count on their competition doing just what they are doing. Since they don't collude just happen to react the same way, it is not illegal. One thing you can do to help yourself is when prices are low, keep your tanks full and when prices jump up, hold off on filling up. I go by my pit stop every work day, with pay at the pump it hardly takes 3 minutes to top up. I might be changing my routine, the Coast Guard Exchange at work is putting in pumps, I can't wait to see what their pump prices are going to be.

Tim

[Rick Hodges]

Supposedly this refinery produces 1/6 of the EPA's required "summer, low evaporative, blend" gasoline in the nation. Yeah it will hurt.
Don't get me started on the low evap. blend either...we burn it in the Detroit area because our air gets Chicago's pollution....our stuff goes to Canada (prevailing westerly winds) where no one bothers to measure...it helps us not one whit.

[Geraldo]

What and why. I don't buy gas at gas stations, I buy gas at convenience stores. Why should I not buy smokes or snuff there too. They have the best prices on gas and smokes.

Tim

Well said. I haven't seen a gas station in years. If you don't buy convenience items there it will cost you more, but you'll have the satisfaction that even though you spent you'll have taken a tiny bite out of their profits. [smilie=w: Or you'll just be poorer and unhappy. :( Anybody who really wants to fight big oil should invest in a mountain bike and quit buying gas.

[shooter93]

They will always find a way to control the market and keep fuel prices right where they want them. Free markets aren't allowed to run in this country anymore. Thousands of off shore platforms and 3 get knocked out by a storm and prices soar????? Shut down a refinery and we're in supply problems????? Either one of those is true and we're doomed already. The EPA etc. has been blamed for our not being able to build more refineries for years. Oil companies don't want more capacity to refine. Heaven forbid we have ample supply and refining capacity to cover these "bumps" and fuel prices stay down. Low fuel costs have always allowed a prosperous economy instead fo the mess we're in now.

[Plate plinker]

What reason is this refinery slowing or cutting production?

[rr2241tx]

Texas refines a goodly share of the nation's fuel and price fluctuations of $.10/gal. aren't even news anymore. Gas prices can and often do vary $.15 - $.25/gal. over a week and can easily be that much or more one way or the other from town to town along the same highway. Consumers really have little impact on the price of fuel, sooner or later you will have to gas up or lose your job.

[Four-Sixty]

It seems like only a short while ago there was so much oil around, they were running out of places to put it.

What I think is really lame is that you can speculate in oil without ever taking delivery, or making use of it. If I had billions of dollars I could artificially inflate demand and the increasing price would "skim" money out of everyone's wallets. Consumers (us) pay a higher price for no increase in benefit. If you can't take delivery of oil, and hedging the price does not benefit your business, you should not be able to speculate on a good that is a cost input for damn near everything!

[retread]

Isnt it funny they jack up the price because of refinery issues acting like the supply is low. Yet when was the last time any of us pulled up to a pump to find they were out of gas?

It was 1979.

[DCP]

You fight your battles I will fight mine. My gas station/convenience store has low gas prices often close to the lowest in the nation and has the lowest price on cigarettes in the area. Why would I punish myself to punish them when they are a asset to the neighborhood. Sometimes I might buy something else there especially when it is late at night and the other stores are closed.

I think this is a case of another person posting an incomplete message. Did you mean that if my gas station raised its price an unreasonable amount then I should not give them my business as they are a bad actor? Gas prices have only been going down here in the last few weeks not up.

Tim

I sorry you think my post was incomplete. Gas was 2.20 and over night it went to 3.00

If you think something is incomplete next time just don't give your opinion

[dragon813gt]

If it went up $0.80 over night I would not use that gas station. Remember that if it's a branded station the local owner doesn't set the price, corporate does. It went from to $2.51 to $2.56 this week. It's been extremely stable and I'm not complaining about the price because we have $1.00 in state taxes in that price.

[jcwit]

What is over my head, gas here is $2.219 today, why should I not buy stuff at the associated convenience store? Why do people post stuff here trying to tell me what to do that makes no sense and then not explain their rationale?

Tim

I stated it was way over your head, which it really seems to be. Nowhere did I tell anyone what to do!

Pretty simple and needs no explanation, rationally or otherwise.

[jcwit]

If it went up $0.80 over night I would not use that gas station. Remember that if it's a branded station the local owner doesn't set the price, corporate does. It went from to $2.51 to $2.56 this week. It's been extremely stable and I'm not complaining about the price because we have $1.00 in state taxes in that price.

All the gas is within 3 cents within a 100 mile radius of where I live, so not using that station is not an option.

[jcwit]

What reason is this refinery slowing or cutting production?

Google WNDU or WSBT

[DCP]

If it went up $0.80 over night I would not use that gas station. Remember that if it's a branded station the local owner doesn't set the price, corporate does. It went from to $2.51 to $2.56 this week. It's been extremely stable and I'm not complaining about the price because we have $1.00 in state taxes in that price.

They ALL went up at the same time nearly!
That is why I said JUST BUY GAS. I refuse to be a sheep.

[Plate plinker]

Okay fellas remember politicians suckle at the teats of big oil no change will ever come
until gobernment changes.

[dtknowles]

All the gas is within 3 cents within a 100 mile radius of where I live, so not using that station is not an option.

The price of gas varies by more than 10 cents in just 3 mile from the usual pit stop. We have more than 12 choices in that 3 mile radius, corner of I-10 and U.S. 190, check it out. Part of that is Shell has a promotional connection with Winn-Dixie, if I buy a lot of stuff at Winn-Dixie, I sometimes have as much as a $1 a gallon discount at Shell, so I switch from RaceTrac to Shell where normally it would be 8 or 10 cents more a gallon.

Tim

[jcwit]

They ALL went up at the same time nearly!
That is why I said JUST BUY GAS. I refuse to be a sheep.

I just last Sunday purchased something other than gas at the CS in our small town, a Sunday paper. This was the first time in 15 years that I have purchased something other than gas. They sure don't much from me!

[jcwit]

The price of gas varies by more than 10 cents in just 3 mile from the usual pit stop. We have more than 12 choices in that 3 mile radius, corner of I-10 and U.S. 190, check it out. Part of that is Shell has a promotional connection with Winn-Dixie, if I buy a lot of stuff at Winn-Dixie, I sometimes have as much as a $1 a gallon discount at Shell, so I switch from RaceTrac to Shell where normally it would be 8 or 10 cents more a gallon.

Tim

Not the case here, check it out.
http://www.southbendgasprices.com/Map_Gas_Prices.aspx

[smokeywolf]

They all do it because they can count on their competition doing just what they are doing. Since they don't collude just happen to react the same way, it is not illegal.

Tim

Actually Tim, about 20-something years ago the oil companies were taken to court for price fixing. Their argument that they were not "price fixing" was that they themselves were not fixing the prices. They had formed a separate company that was autonomous of the oil companies and their manufacturing, marketing and sales divisions. This "separate company" operated as a "marketing partnership" and established a pricing plan or structure and since it was not legally connected with, or a subsidiary of, the "oil companies", the "oil companies" were not guilty of "price fixing"

Kinda like when Billary Clinton said, "I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky." She had sex with him, but he didn't have sex with her.

It's all semantics.


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gas-profits-20150722-story.html
California oil refineries' gross profits nearly double in 2015


Filled the tank yesterday. Cheapest gas within 15 miles was Costco @ $3.50/gal.

[runfiverun]

Okay fellas remember politicians suckle at the teats of big oil no change will ever come
until gobernment changes.

actually it's the other way around.
b/p and the others make about a dime off a gallon of gas, buy the leases from the government, take all the risks and does all the foot work on the oil reserves.
the government writes the rules and taxes the jebus out of it to the tune of 10-20 times more profit than any of the oil companies make.
you also have to remember that their stated earnings are world wide, and they go through the same baloney in every country they do business in.

[MaryB]

Jumped from $2.29 to $2.67 here overnight. And Minnesota refines most of its own gas...

[DCP]

Jumped from $2.29 to $2.67 here overnight. And Minnesota refines most of its own gas...\\

The news tonight said it could go nation wide . depending on how long 1 refinery is down. Unbelievable to say the least

[jcwit]

They better get their butts in gear up there in Whiting.

[RP]

Let me get this right your not going to buy anything but gas from the gas stations in protest to higher gas prices to send a message to the oil companies. Not sure how the stations are in your area but around me they are branded like subway Hardees Mc Donnals and many more, So not buying anything but the gas from them keeps feeding the oil companies and hurts the guy that is paying for the brand name. I would say the stores make a few pennies off a gal and the profit is made off the sales in the store the gas and the lower prices on smokes is to get you to buy that 2 buck soda and buck fifty candy bar. You want to get to the gas company drive less so you buy less gas but we all know that will not work its been proven no matter what the price is people will still buy it. How many carpool take a bus or anything else to stop using gas very few. Or am I missing the point ? I just see a lot of holes in this plan.

[B.C.Jay]

And it aint just you guys!!! Prices at the pump here in Kamloops BC jumped over 10 cents a liter last night or this morning. That would be over 40 cents a gallon if we were not on that stupid metric @##*

You noticed that too, eh?
And here I thought it was just due to all the gas stations in town being owned and controlled by a certain ethnic group. ;)

[retread]

Let me get this right your not going to buy anything but gas from the gas stations in protest to higher gas prices to send a message to the oil companies. Not sure how the stations are in your area but around me they are branded like subway Hardees Mc Donnals and many more, So not buying anything but the gas from them keeps feeding the oil companies and hurts the guy that is paying for the brand name. I would say the stores make a few pennies off a gal and the profit is made off the sales in the store the gas and the lower prices on smokes is to get you to buy that 2 buck soda and buck fifty candy bar. You want to get to the gas company drive less so you buy less gas but we all know that will not work its been proven no matter what the price is people will still buy it. How many carpool take a bus or anything else to stop using gas very few. Or am I missing the point ? I just see a lot of holes in this plan.

^^^^ I agree with that analysis!

[Bad Water Bill]

As was explained to me MANY years ago a refinery turns crude into gasoline then ships the gasoline off to the gas storage farms.

When the Shell,Mobile etc truck pulls up for a load they pour in FIVE GALLONS of additives then blend it with 10,000 gal of GASOLINE.

It was the refinery in Whiting In that blew a part used in refining 250,000 BBLs of crude a day and will take ABOUT 9 months to fix.

Time for a REAL investigation as to why prices across the U S AND Canada should jump .85 a gallon over night.

That refinery only serves about 4 states so who authorized an .85 increase across the "North American" continent?

[DCP]

Let me get this right your not going to buy anything but gas from the gas stations in protest to higher gas prices to send a message to the oil companies. Not sure how the stations are in your area but around me they are branded like subway Hardees Mc Donnals and many more, So not buying anything but the gas from them keeps feeding the oil companies and hurts the guy that is paying for the brand name. I would say the stores make a few pennies off a gal and the profit is made off the sales in the store the gas and the lower prices on smokes is to get you to buy that 2 buck soda and buck fifty candy bar. You want to get to the gas company drive less so you buy less gas but we all know that will not work its been proven no matter what the price is people will still buy it. How many carpool take a bus or anything else to stop using gas very few. Or am I missing the point ? I just see a lot of holes in this plan.

You and I must buy Gas. I will try to cut back.
But I must go to work and take my wife for cancer treatments.
If all I buy is gas they have already rape me.

I was told buy a gas truck driver all the stations negotiate a price for xxx amount of gallons of gas.
Going up over 2 or 3 days is just pure profit and raping the consumer.

Any excuse is good excuse to raise the price
All though not buying anything but gas is not a prefect plan. I will not give them 1 more dime of my hard earned money when I can.

I will not be a sheep. I will fight back when I can

BUY GAS ONLY

[Elkins45]

As was explained to me MANY years ago a refinery turns crude into gasoline then ships the gasoline off to the gas storage farms.

When the Shell,Mobile etc truck pulls up for a load they pour in FIVE GALLONS of additives then blend it with 10,000 gal of GASOLINE.

It was the refinery in Whiting In that blew a part used in refining 250,000 BBLs of crude a day and will take ABOUT 9 months to fix.

Time for a REAL investigation as to why prices across the U S AND Canada should jump .85 a gallon over night.

That refinery only serves about 4 states so who authorized an .85 increase across the "North American" continent?

OMG this is the 22 rimfire "price gouging" fight all over again. Nobody has to authorize a price jump anywhere. Retailers base their pricing on how much they expect it will cost to replace what they have in their tanks now. Seems to me they are just bracing for the panic.

If prices rise $0.50 tomorrow, gas will still be quite a bit cheaper than it was two years ago. Remember when close to $4 was the norm?

[DCP]

OMG this is the 22 rimfire "price gouging" fight all over again. Nobody has to authorize a price jump anywhere. Retailers base their pricing on how much they expect it will cost to replace what they have in their tanks now. Seems to me they are just bracing for the panic.

If prices rise $0.50 tomorrow, gas will still be quite a bit cheaper than it was two years ago. Remember when close to $4 was the norm?

Crude is about 42.00. I believe it was over 100.00 at 4.00 a gal

[Huskerguy]

I am one to usually buy into conspiracy theories. However, we know there has been a lack of refineries in the U.S. for some time. Too expensive to bring new ones on line so we go with what we have. The balance is much more critical than everyone thinks. There is only so much capacity currently and when a major plant, and it appears this fits that description, what does everyone think is going to happen? Oil and gas are like hogs and cattle, they are a commodity that sell on futures and an open market. Countries have buyers and sellers and the producer is pretty much at their mercy for prices. While it is easy to point the finger at the gas and oil companies I don't know that it makes sense. How does one explain the low gas costs we have had for several months (relatively speaking of course)?

[jcwit]

I am one to usually buy into conspiracy theories. However, we know there has been a lack of refineries in the U.S. for some time. Too expensive to bring new ones on line so we go with what we have.

But of course we were able to put up all those alcohol refineries. Plenty of time and cash for that!

[jmorris]

Isnt it funny they jack up the price because of refinery issues acting like the supply is low. Yet when was the last time any of us pulled up to a pump to find they were out of gas?

That is the supply and demand part of it. Oil has been silly high for too long, prices fall (I have seen regular for $1.99) and to be competitive your profit margins fall. Hard to make it up with volume when .GOV folks force cars to be more efficient.

So start shutting down your production (supply) and hope prices go back up is what they are betting on. There have been times where folks just stop the pump jacks and leave it in the ground waiting on higher prices, same thing.

[dtknowles]

actually it's the other way around.
b/p and the others make about a dime off a gallon of gas, buy the leases from the government, take all the risks and does all the foot work on the oil reserves.
the government writes the rules and taxes the jebus out of it to the tune of 10-20 times more profit than any of the oil companies make.
you also have to remember that their stated earnings are world wide, and they go through the same baloney in every country they do business in.

Yeah, I don't know how Louisanna would pay our bills if not for oil royalties, public and private along with the other taxes paid by the oil companies. We definitively socked it to PB over and others over the rig fire and spill as well, but that and the other is deserved.

Tim

[DCP]

BP announces record profits


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-44255/BP-announces-record-profits.html

Garry Russell, organizer of the Dump the Pump campaign, said: "I am all for profit-making, but these profits are obscene.

[dtknowles]

I am one to usually buy into conspiracy theories. However, we know there has been a lack of refineries in the U.S. for some time. Too expensive to bring new ones on line so we go with what we have. The balance is much more critical than everyone thinks. There is only so much capacity currently and when a major plant, and it appears this fits that description, what does everyone think is going to happen? Oil and gas are like hogs and cattle, they are a commodity that sell on futures and an open market. Countries have buyers and sellers and the producer is pretty much at their mercy for prices. While it is easy to point the finger at the gas and oil companies I don't know that it makes sense. How does one explain the low gas costs we have had for several months (relatively speaking of course)?


I am not saying we should not have more refineries but the U.S. exports more than 150 million barrels of finished gasoline each year. It is good business and we should try do more of this, that is what a good part of where our oil imports go.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Not the case here, check it out.
http://www.southbendgasprices.com/Map_Gas_Prices.aspx


Sorry for you, I believed you when you said it, I was just pointing out my situation was different.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

It fell to $2.49 this morning. Should I be mad about this?

[starmac]

A different question, what kind of pump prices were you paying the last time oil prices were in the mid 40s a barrel??

Somone mentioned that refinery made a SPECIAL blend, that could be part of it if there is ot enough refinery capacity to satisfy the epa's need for the SPECIAL blend too.

Since our pump prices are still in the 3.45 range, maybe we will be spared from the increase.

The map of refineries someone posted, maybe needs updating, as I know for sure one of the major refineries it shows the location of, has been closed for 2 years.

[DCP]

It fell to $2.49 this morning. Should I be mad about this?

Why would any sane person be mad about prices going down?

[dtknowles]

Price dropped 2 cents overnight.

Tim

[bdicki]

http://www.massachusettsgasprices.com/Price_By_County.aspx

[SteveS]

I filled up yesterday for $2.49/gal. Saw it today at $2.39.

[DCP]

http://www.massachusettsgasprices.com/Price_By_County.aspx

Thanks for the Post

[Pb Burner]

Yesterday morning it was $2.39 here. I just got off work and now it's $2.89. Maybe it will drop just as fast...doubt it.

[smokeywolf]

Do you all round fuel prices up 1/10 of cent which is simple logic or round down 9/10 of a cent which is the way the oil companies want you to see it?

[Tenbender]

Holiday weekend coming up. Gas goes up. No big news !

[jcwit]

Holiday weekend coming up. Gas goes up. No big news !

We're 2 weeks away from the holiday, nobody's going anywhere yet.

And it ain't going to go down after the weekend either.

[Elkins45]

In my little town there's a gas station/convenience store and the Southern States coop sells gas. Normally they are priced the same, but when I went through town today the gas station was $2.59 and Southern States was $2.89. SS closes at noon, so maybe they were setting up the pumps for the credit card customers over the rest of the weekend.

The wife and I went to the next town over for dinner and it was still $2.59 everywhere there.

[Bad Water Bill]

BP just completed a 5 year multi billion dollar upgrade to handle the Canadian tar sands and now they have a major break down that will probably take up to 9 months to fix.

But that is not their only major problem.

Instead of sending the nasty sand that is left after the refining process back to Canada to fill in the big hole there, they are dumping the sticky black sand over to Chicago where it sits in hugh piles that are blown by the "WINDY CITY" winds all over the S E side of Chicago and into Lake Michigan.

You guess who will have to pay to clean up that mess that they created in Indiana and trucked over to Illinois and just dumped there?

[SteveS]

Coming through Concord last night I noticed Sam's Club was down to $2.34.

[DCP]

Its amazing the people who don't watch or know what going on with the National news.
Or even care if its not happening to them (YET) it cant be happening.
When gas goes up .80 in two or three days its a big problem.

We are at 2.90 a gal and holding ( wonder what its going to do for the Labor Day)

[Lloyd Smale]

must be the fault of the union employees:bigsmyl2:

[SteveS]

It's not that it's not happening. Prices around the country do indicate that it is a regional situation, at least for now.

The price increase could spread or the retailers could calm down and prices return to what they were before the partial shut down.

It's certainly worth watching. Some perspective makes it even more so.

[DCP]

It's not that it's not happening. Prices around the country do indicate that it is a regional situation, at least for now.

The price increase could spread or the retailers could calm down and prices return to what they were before the partial shut down.

It's certainly worth watching. Some perspective makes it even more so.

Lets hope it stays a regional situation Thanks for reporting of your gas price.

[DCP]

must be the fault of the union employees:bigsmyl2:

Wasn't this supposed to be purple:2gunsfiring_v1:

[dragon813gt]

When California had a refinery issues a while back it stayed a regional issue. I'm hoping this is the same.

[Russel Nash]

BP just completed a 5 year multi billion dollar upgrade to handle the Canadian tar sands and now they have a major break down that will probably take up to 9 months to fix.

But that is not their only major problem.

Instead of sending the nasty sand that is left after the refining process back to Canada to fill in the big hole there, they are dumping the sticky black sand over to Chicago where it sits in hugh piles that are blown by the "WINDY CITY" winds all over the S E side of Chicago and into Lake Michigan.

You guess who will have to pay to clean up that mess that they created in Indiana and trucked over to Illinois and just dumped there?

Hmmnn...NO!

As I understand it, up in Alberta, steam is injected into the side of a hill of sand. This pushes their crude out. It is most likely sold on the open market as "West Canadian Select" or "WCS". The major player for crude oil prices is "West Texas Intermediate".

And again, as far as I know, what comes out of Alberta, is dumped into a huge tank, let's say.

This tank has water on the bottom. The oil likes to float on the top. Any sand still in the oil drops out and falls through the water to the bottom of the tank.

As more water is added to the tank, the oil spills over the edge. This oil might then be thinned with some other chemical before being put into the Keystone pipeline and piped to wherever.

You don't want to send what would basically be sandpaper down a several hundred mile long pipeline.

You would rub a hole through the pipeline in no time.

So this mountain of "sand" you are seeing south of Chicago is actually coke.

Refineries are trying to wring every drop of sellable product out of a barrel of crude.

So like a hog butchering factory...everything but the oink.

The refineries distill the crude until what they get at the bottom of their vacuum towers is basically asphalt.

This asphalt is sent to a coking drum or coke drum, which looks like this:

http://www.southpolestation.com/cis/coker/cokerse.jpg

Asphalt is a long chain carbon molecule, so as it enters the drum the long chains break off. These shorter chains are vapors which come off the top of the drum. These vapors can be condensed into other products like diesel fuel and kerosene.

What ends up being left in the drum is "coke". It can be used as fuel coke for say steel mill operations. Or it can be used to make huge electrodes for electric smelting furnaces.

That huge pile of "sand" is actually coke.

[Russel Nash]

The tar sands has a higher sulfur content to it.

As you probably already know, if you combine sulfur with hydrogen, you get sulfuric acid, which would eat through a carbon steel pipe rather quickly. So what BP did was to "metal up" replacing their old carbon steel pipes with stainless steel type pipes.

[Russel Nash]

I am not saying we should not have more refineries but the U.S. exports more than 150 million barrels of finished gasoline each year. It is good business and we should try do more of this, that is what a good part of where our oil imports go.

Tim

Do you have a link for that number?

[Hardcast416taylor]

Interesting point has surfaced. BP only supplies less than 1,00 stations in Michigan of the over 4,00 total in the state. Since they supply only that smaller amount of stations, why did all other stations jump their prices when they aren`t affected? There is a legislative investigation going about this price jumping, I just wonder just how far this investigation will go or discover?Robert

[DCP]

Looks like he maybe a tad short

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MGFEXUS1&f=M

[DCP]

Interesting point has surfaced. BP only supplies less than 1,00 stations in Michigan of the over 4,00 total in the state. Since they supply only that smaller amount of stations, why did all other stations jump their prices when they aren`t affected? There is a legislative investigation going about this price jumping, I just wonder just how far this investigation will go or discover?Robert

Simple it called greed.
1st the news said .30 to .40 cents (it did)
Then .60 to .90 cents (it did)
News said it could spread out side the local area(it did)

The NEWS said they didn't know how far it would spread, maybe to the whole nation. (Will it)

[SteveS]

Since they supply only that smaller amount of stations, why did all other stations jump their prices when they aren`t affected?


Simple it called greed.

Wouldn't it more correctly be called capitalism? You know, charging what the market will bear?

[Bad Water Bill]

For a ton of info try PETCOKE and BP.

Or you can read here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/bp-whiting-refinery/

Lots of links,videos and photos about the sands left behind that BP and its associates are SHARING with the south side of Chicago.

[DCP]

Wouldn't it more correctly be called capitalism? You know, charging what the market will bear?

At what point is it no longer capitalism but market greed?
Then you buy only gas

Is it OK to sell water at 500.00 a gallon if your the only place to get water in a emergency? I think not.

[dtknowles]

Do you have a link for that number?

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MGFEXUS1&f=M

[DCP]

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MGFEXUS1&f=M



This link has already been posted and your a tad short

[dtknowles]

Looks like he maybe a tad short

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MGFEXUS1&f=M

Yeah, exports have been going up the last decade so it depends on how many years you average and I rounded off to the nearest 50 million. Figured it was close enough for the point I was trying to make. I we can export that much gas tight supply is not really a refinery capacity problem it is a marketing, distribution and regional formulation issue.

Tim

[DCP]

Yeah, exports have been going up the last decade so it depends on how many years you average and I rounded off to the nearest 50 million. Figured it was close enough for the point I was trying to make. I we can export that much gas tight supply is not really a refinery capacity problem it is a marketing, distribution and regional formulation issue.


Tim

Are you in politics? or just never wrong?

[SteveS]

At what point is it no longer capitalism but market greed?

I ask myself that question a lot and don't really have an answer.

[dtknowles]

Are you in politics? or just never wrong?

Neither, I thought I agreed with you that my number was wrong and I explained why. I have been wrong here before and admitted and in some cases even apologized.

Tim

[DCP]

Neither, I thought I agreed with you that my number was wrong and I explained why. I have been wrong here before and admitted and in some cases even apologized.

Tim

I am sorry I must have missed it. and good for you!

[dtknowles]

I ask myself that question a lot and don't really have an answer.

It is a question worthy of national debate. When does the greed get so bad that it is wrong? In a emergency if the emergency responders are trying to restore power and deliver food and water then I believe anyone selling, gas, generator, candles, food, water, etc. for more than the usual profit plus a small premium is a gouger and deserves to be punished.

In a non emergency tight supply situation price rises are a good thing as they tend to curb demand and encourage supply which will help avoid a worsening supply situation.

The .22 LR situation is typical, retailers did not raise their prices when supply could not meet demand and this imbalance let to an underground market shadow sellers and empty shelves. If Walmart (and others) had raised prices to a level that would have kept some ammo on the shelf. The producers and wholesalers could have raised prices as well, if all three had adjusted prices to meet the market then no one entity would have had that large a windfall and proper market balance would have been achieved.

As a retailer faced with the prospect of short supply, increasing prices is logical. Retail prices are not set by the cost of a product but what the market will pay and what your competition will charge. This is why price fixing and monopolies are illegal or regulated.

Tim

[Russel Nash]

For a ton of info try PETCOKE and BP.

Or you can read here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/bp-whiting-refinery/

Lots of links,videos and photos about the sands left behind that BP and its associates are SHARING with the south side of Chicago.

I was under the impression that the HuffPo was basically laughed at by most gun forum members because it is a basically the propaganda wing of the democratic party.

You other forum members feel free to correct me if my assessment of the HuffPo is incorrect.

The reason the media and the dems are against "petcoke" is because they are all anti-Keystone XL pipeline people.

Why the Prez and all the other dems are so anti-keystone XL, I have no idea?

[dragon813gt]

Why the Prez and all the other dems are so anti-keystone XL, I have no idea?

Money, as in Warren Buffets money. The oil is moved on his rail lines instead of the pipeline. I'm sure there is more to it. But it always boils down to money.

[Rick Hodges]

There is a battle against old money....the power for centuries has been with big oil...it is about power. The greenies/dems could care less about the environment it is about control and a new power dynamic with them in charge. It is about "Change".

[Russel Nash]

Money, as in Warren Buffets money. The oil is moved on his rail lines instead of the pipeline. I'm sure there is more to it. But it always boils down to money.

Yeah, I noticed one of the HuffPo links I read specifically mentioned the Koch brothers.

If you really want to see the hackles stand up on some die hard liberal/democrat, just mention "Koch brothers". It has about the same effect as splashing holy water on a demon possessed Linda Blair in the Exorcist.

[jcwit]

As a retailer faced with the prospect of short supply, increasing prices is logical. Retail prices are not set by the cost of a product but what the market will pay and what your competition will charge. This is why price fixing and monopolies are illegal or regulated.

Tim

My wife & I used to own a small retail & woodshop business. Everytime the saw blades or router bits needed sharpening I raised the prices till I got them back from the sharpener, then over a period of weeks I slowly lowered the prices again till the blades and bits got dull again.

YUP, worked every time.

[mold maker]

Boy the price really jumped here, from $2.25 to $2.26 in a week.

[DCP]

Boy the price really jumped here, from $2.25 to $2.26 in a week.

Boy aren't you lucky you don't live in the Midwest or Upper great lakes

[Kent Fowler]

When California had a refinery issues a while back it stayed a regional issue. I'm hoping this is the same.

I can't remember gas prices skyrocketing when the ISOM unit at the Texas City BP refinery blew up in 2005. It's the second largest in Texas and the third largest refinery in the U. S. The refinery remained down for close to a year with out much effect on gas prices.

[popper]

They close down the Bermuda unit every year to convert to fuel oil. We and Canada export oil and soon will be exporting coal, per Buffet and the rest of the big boys. Like everything else, supply and demand but sometimes supply is artificially limited. Auto prices are up but there is a glut of autos unsold worldwide, well I guess a few less after the China explosion. That will cause LLoyd's rates to go up.

[Bad Water Bill]

I live about 20 miles from their refinery and watched the gas price skyrocket $1.00 in 2 days.

[smokeywolf]

The oil companies have been reducing, restricting or impairing output of refined product for decades. My opinion is for the purpose of creating more profitable supply and demand ratios.

[historicfirearms]

I don't get the "just buy gas" theory either. If you really want to send the oil companies (not gas stations) a message, cut back on you gas buying. If you stop buying beef jerky and Mountain Dew maybe you can loose enough weight to make a difference in your MPG, but that's going to take a while and the difference is going to be small.

[DCP]

I don't get the "just buy gas" theory either. If you really want to send the oil companies (not gas stations) a message, cut back on you gas buying. If you stop buying beef jerky and Mountain Dew maybe you can loose enough weight to make a difference in your MPG, but that's going to take a while and the difference is going to be small.

1. The gas companies didn't raise prices over night the gas station did.
2. I am cutting down on driving. But I must buy gas. I can get every thing I need at the grocery store and I will make my own coffee
3 Gas stations buy the gas by bulk and on a contract so the gas in tanks and new deliveries may not have higher price gas for weeks.

People really need to educate them self, as not to be a sheep.

[Geraldo]

3 Gas stations buy the gas by bulk and on a contract so the gas in tanks and new deliveries may not have higher price gas for weeks.


Read up on how gas stations determine the price of the gas they sell.

[DCP]

Read up on how gas stations determine the price of the gas they sell.

I have and they must make a profit stay in business.
When they raise price over night. They are gouging the consumer

Again

Gas stations buy the gas by bulk and on a contract so the gas in tanks and new deliveries may not have higher price gas for weeks.

[starmac]

Do you think they will or should sell the gas they have in their tanks right now, or their bulk purchase cheaper than what they will pay for their next purchase?? They would not stay in business long with that business model.

[popper]

What Starmac says.

[jcwit]

Funny, after 20 years in the Hardware business and another 20 years owning our own successful retail business that's not how we worked the profit margin.

But then we didn't make the profits the oil companies do. But we lived very well.

[starmac]

You undoubetedly made bigger profits than the oil companies do, just not near the volume. Oil companies operate on a very small percentage of profit, just huge quantities.

[smokeywolf]

Do you think they will or should sell the gas they have in their tanks right now, or their bulk purchase cheaper than what they will pay for their next purchase?? They would not stay in business long with that business model.

I got the impression that DCP is saying that since gas stations don't lower their retail prices until they themselves get a lower wholesale price, is it ethical to raise the retail price before they themselves receive the next load of fuel at the new higher wholesale price?

One other thing to add. Does everyone know and understand that the oil prices quoted in the news media are "oil futures". The prices quoted on TV, internet and in newspapers is for oil deliveries 2 to 3 months in the future.

[starmac]

Contract buying works both ways, if a retail company contracts for the future of even a few months, they still pay their contract price even if the price of oil goes down and their competitors are selling retail below what they are paying on the contract.
Flying J is a preetty large volume retail fuel outlet, and they came close to going bankrupt a few years ago, as they were paying more for their fuel than they could charge at the retail level and still compete with other truckstop companies, because of the contract timing and the drop in a barrel of oil price.
Everything is not cut and dried in their business, it sucks, but it is what it is.

[DCP]

I got the impression that DCP is saying that since gas stations don't lower their retail prices until they themselves get a lower wholesale price, is it ethical to raise the retail price before they themselves receive the next load of fuel at the new higher wholesale price?

One other thing to add. Does everyone know and understand that the oil prices quoted in the news media are "oil futures". The prices quoted on TV, internet and in newspapers is for oil deliveries 2 to 3 months in the future.

Thank you so much this is exactly what I am trying to say

[historicfirearms]

This is why the American people will always get shafted. These poor sheep will always get eaten by the wolfs. They will never fight back

1. The gas companies didn't raise prices over night the gas station did.
2. I am cutting down on driving. But I must buy gas. I can get every thing I need at the grocery store and I will make my own coffee
3 Gas stations buy the gas by bulk and on a contract so the gas in tanks and new deliveries may not have higher price gas for weeks.

People really need to educate them self, as not to be a sheep.


So, we are sheep because we are trying to understand YOUR logic??? You still haven't explained why we shouldn't buy snacks at a gas station.

[DCP]

Contract buying works both ways, if a retail company contracts for the future of even a few months, they still pay their contract price even if the price of oil goes down and their competitors are selling retail below what they are paying on the contract.
Flying J is a preetty large volume retail fuel outlet, and they came close to going bankrupt a few years ago, as they were paying more for their fuel than they could charge at the retail level and still compete with other truckstop companies, because of the contract timing and the drop in a barrel of oil price.
Everything is not cut and dried in their business, it sucks, but it is what it is.

They buy on contract for this very reason.Someone made a very bad contract If the news reports next years coffee crop has a problem. It immediately goes up in the stores.

Its the immediate over night charge that has my panties in a wad.
I have to buy gas NOTHING ELSE. They can go pound sand!

[DCP]

So, we are sheep because we are trying to understand YOUR logic??? You still haven't explained why we shouldn't buy snacks at a gas station.

Yes, and yes I have

[popper]

Southwest 'claimed' a good profit for years due to 'timing' the fuel market, then got creamed when the contract expired. Companies that can, play the 'hedge fund' market to offset primary business 'losses'. This was major when the JIT process made equipment deliveries way out, price at delivery time. Really tough to price the market a year or so out. IMHO were are NOT in that mode anymore, production of non-consumables has decreased remarkably in the last few years. Keeps the price and profits up. I remember Dad telling me the steam turbine power industry had to order a tubine and build the facility minus the turbine structure as they may order a 30MWatt unit and get a 80MW turbine, whatever comes off the line. Makes guessing real tough.
Any of us remember 'watered down' gas? Love's got caught dickering with the pumps to make a profit.

[historicfirearms]

Another one gets added to my ignore list.

[quickdraw66]

Another one gets added to my ignore list.

Already added him to mine. Between the name calling and the rudeness in this one thread, I can see his posts aren't worth reading whether he's right or not.

[quickdraw66]

I don't get the "just buy gas" theory either. If you really want to send the oil companies (not gas stations) a message, cut back on you gas buying. If you stop buying beef jerky and Mountain Dew maybe you can loose enough weight to make a difference in your MPG, but that's going to take a while and the difference is going to be small.

Not buying $2-$3 worth of junk food (of which they only get a small percentage of after paying the vendors) is not going to have an effect when your buying at least $30-$40 worth of gas. Want to send a message? You'll have to do what you said and stop buying gas. You want to know the honest truth? You and the few people you can convince to actually do this will not make a difference at all. Everyone buys gas, so the chances of a small group of non buyers even registering on the big oil companies' radar is slim to none. Even if you convinced 1000 people to stop buying gas they won't notice you. They have millions to billion of sales each year.

[smokeywolf]

You still haven't explained why we shouldn't buy snacks at a gas station.

Actually, he did...

In post #104, 2nd and 3rd sentence, although a little vague, he is saying that the point is to hurt the gas station who is raising the fuel prices today, based on the price they must pay to fill their tanks 2 or 3 months from now.

Since he does not have a choice whether or not he puts fuel in his vehicle, but does have a choice whether he spends extra money in their convenience store; buy the fuel, but don't buy the "conveniences" (foods and novelties).

[DCP]

Already added him to mine. Between the name calling and the rudeness in this one thread, I can see his posts aren't worth reading whether he's right or not.

Thank you

[Bad Water Bill]

What I find interesting is that every station big town or in the boonies ALL jumped to the NEW price of $3.49.9 the same day.

EVERY brand increased at the same time.

BP has a breakdown at a newly rebuilt (over 5 BILLION DOLLARS) refinery but none of the other major refineries in Whiting suffered any damages so why did they ALL have to jump on the "raise the price" bandwagon?

[blackthorn]

Bandwagon?---Yep, maybe BUT keep in mind that falling prices for a barrel of crude cuts deeply into the profits of big oil! Someone has to insure stockholders in big oil get what dividends they have come to expect! What better way than to make gas consumers pay for their losses? I do believe there are some stations that are not appendages of a big oil company that get caught in the middle and they have to go along with the price scam or go under. When oil was at $100.00 a barrel we were paying over a dollar a litre. When the complaints poured in, we were told the high prices were due to the cost of a barrel of oil! Well folks here we are at $1.29.9 per litre and the price of a barrel of oil is less than $45.00!!

[starmac]

Didn't someone mention that the refinery that shut down, made a big percentage of the special blend summer fuel or something to that affect, that the EPA requires for that area. If that is so, it could be that other refineries had to reconfigure their blend to meet the EPA mandate.

[GSM]

"Someone has to insure stockholders in big oil get what dividends they have come to expect!"

What's the problem? Someone puts their dollars into a company and it's bad for them to expect a payment for the risk they are taking?

If you have mutual funds (whether they be taxable or in a retirement account) and, in some cases, a pension, you probably own a piece of "big oil".

Do you think that the stockholders don't buy gasoline or diesel? They don't get a per gallon discount by flashing a stock certificate or brokerage statement - the price is the same as what everyone else pays.

As to the dividends, most of "big oil" is yielding between 2% and 5%. Not a big payoff considering true inflation is running around 3%.

I don't care for the wild gyrations in gasoline prices, but I certainly won't bite the hand that feeds me every quarter either.


Just a question in closing. A few years ago there were congressional hearings about the "absurd" amount of money the oil companies made. The last couple of years, the profits have not been at the same level. Where are the congressional hearings?

[Elkins45]

An interesting article from the Cato Institute, which is hardly a left-wing group: http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/gasoline-prices-perspective

Gas at $3.00/ is a bargain, and we should get down on our knees every day and thank God for it. My car gets about 35 miles/gallon and I would darned sure rather pay that $3 than walk 35 miles.

My dad used to gripe about the price of stamps, which I thought was silly. Good luck hiring someone else to carry your letter to Oregon for 45 cents.

[jcwit]

I bet your dad remembers paying .16/.18 cents for a gallon of gas, I know I do.

[smokeywolf]

I bet your dad remembers paying .16/.18 cents for a gallon of gas, I know I do.
I remember gas at 18 to 20 cents per gallon and you got your oil checked, air pressure in every tire and your windshield washed.

[dtknowles]

Some one should check those stations for price fixing if they all changed their price to the same thing at the same time. Getting all nostalgic about old time gas prices seems silly. Just like talking about penny a round .22 LR. The penny is not even copper anymore.

Tim

[flyer1]

I remember gas at 18 to 20 cents per gallon and you got your oil checked, air pressure in every tire and your windshield washed.
I remember being the guy that did the checking. 1978 and 1979 I worked in Minnesota while in high school for a Standard Oil gas station that was part of the service and cleaned the windows as well. Then again in Milwaukee for a Shell station and we did the same service. If I remember correctly that was when gas went over a dollar a gallon. Our pumps only went up to 99.9. That was also when the Hunt brothers ran the price of silverup to near $50 a troy ounce.

[starmac]

I washed quite a few windshields myself. I can also remember about rubbing a hole in a few of them, some of them hippy chicks just didn't mind putting on a show for us old country boys. lol

[M-Tecs]

I washed quite a few windshields myself. I can also remember about rubbing a hole in a few of them, some of them hippy chicks just didn't mind putting on a show for us old country boys. lol

Same here. That brings back some good memories. To be 16 again!!!

[starmac]

I'm too tired to have to do all that living again. lol

[Bad Water Bill]

Was more than a "little boy" when I pumped gas for .13 a gal,cleaned ALL windows,checked oil,water,trans fuel,all belts and hoses at Brownies gas station in VA BEACH VA while wearing a dixie cup.[smilie=s:

Loved it when those YANKEE SCHOOL MARMS paid us a visit for some real R&R:bigsmyl2:

[smokeywolf]

I was pumping gas at a Chevron station on one of main routes to one of the popular SoCal beaches in the Summer of '70. You can believe me that every car full of high school girls got all of their windows washed thoroughly and sometimes twice.

'72-'73 was pumping gas and diesel and busting truck tires at a Philips 66 truck stop.

[DCP]

Gas has dropped to .20 to .25 per gallon. I wonder how far it will fall. Then there is Labor Day LOL

[sparky45]

Bandwagon?---Yep, maybe BUT keep in mind that falling prices for a barrel of crude cuts deeply into the profits of big oil! Someone has to insure stockholders in big oil get what dividends they have come to expect! What better way than to make gas consumers pay for their losses? I do believe there are some stations that are not appendages of a big oil company that get caught in the middle and they have to go along with the price scam or go under. When oil was at $100.00 a barrel we were paying over a dollar a litre. When the complaints poured in, we were told the high prices were due to the cost of a barrel of oil! Well folks here we are at $1.29.9 per litre and the price of a barrel of oil is less than $45.00!!
You apparently haven't been following the Stock Market lately. Exon Mobile was $106/share a few months ago; today $70.

[Elkins45]

So far this seems to have stayed regional. Gas is still $2.59 here.

[Bad Water Bill]

$3.39 in my town in Illinois but $2.99 just 7 miles away in Indiana.

Guess where this OLD man FILLED HER UP?

[jcwit]

It's funny, well not really. The refinery had a break down, so the price of gas went up everywhere here in the mid-west, people kept driving just as much as ever, at least I did & I think I'm fairly avg. so what was the outcome???

The gas/oil companies made more money, and there never was a shortage.

Now somebody prove me wrong!

[dtknowles]

It's funny, well not really. The refinery had a break down, so the price of gas went up everywhere here in the mid-west, people kept driving just as much as ever, at least I did & I think I'm fairly avg. so what was the outcome???

The gas/oil companies made more money, and there never was a shortage.

Now somebody prove me wrong!

I am not up for doing that research but if the refinery was offline and inventories did not go down then someone is pulling a fast one or people used less gas. If sales were not reduced then how come there was no shortage.

Gas prices are still dropping here, down another nickel the past couple days. $2.139 today.

Tim

[Bad Water Bill]

Does any body remember the terrible gas shortage of 1973?

When it suddenly started gas was selling for around .30-35 per gallon and the local gas stations seemed to have a never ending supply.

After sitting in long lines for the first time since WW2 everyone was willing to pay any price to purchase gasoline.

Well the petroleum industry heard our cries and gladly raised the price up to .89 a gallon and suddenly the supposed shortage vanished.

Working at a station that was well on the way to pumping 3 MILLION gallons of gasoline that year we had trucks there every day and new many of the drivers.

They said that if there was an abandoned tanker or station anywhere you could be sure the refineries were using it as a storage area.

At the same time my brother had a friend that worked on the barges that ran the Illinois river from Chicagoland down to the Mississippi.

He and his tugboat captain father said that if any barge was capable of storing gasoline it was full and pushed high up on the banks in every location they could push any barge into.

When the industry finally convinced us to pay TRIPLE what we had been paying just a few months before suddenly there was enough to go around for everyone.

YES I am that old but my memory has not forgotten that scam the petroleum industry pulled on us.

[BAGTIC]

We need a special section for the delusional paranoids. Some people don't even look for a rational explanation before they reach for their foil caps.

Why does an increase in price eliminate a shortage? Life is an auction. Oil is an international commodity. When there is a shortage the people who get first choice are the ones willing to pay the most. If we are willing to pay for gas at $. 89 we get the oil that would otherwise have gone to some country not able to afford $.89 cents. Otherwise we become rich SOB hoarders. THe shortage still exists but the effects have been relocated.

[Bad Water Bill]

Tim

Quit trying to pick fights with the folks that actually live in the affected area.

Our prices are starting to go down but are still .40-.50 higher than they were when B P supposedly had their problem.

Also B P is not the only refinery in the SAME city and none of them suffered a production loss so why should prices from as far away as B Canada (as reported by another member here) have to charge more?

[rockrat]

$2.91 here in Western Colorado, up almost $0.30 higher from a month ago. Oil is about $16/barrel less.

[jcwit]

Tim

Quit trying to pick fights with the folks that actually live in the affected area.

Our prices are starting to go down but are still .40-.50 higher than they were when B P supposedly had their problem.

Also B P is not the only refinery in the SAME city and none of them suffered a production loss so why should prices from as far away as B Canada (as reported by another member here) have to charge more?

I'm not sure Tim knows how to click on "Gas Buddy" and see the map with the price of gas in color all around the U.S.

Bill, I see our gas here "think 1/2 way across the top of Indiana" is dropping back down a little, not much, but a little.

[WILCO]

http://imghumour.com/assets/Uploads/Lets-Bump.jpg

[Bad Water Bill]

$3.39 in my town last night but driving down Rt 41 in Indiana 6 miles away was interesting.

Prices ranged from $2.99 at Thornton up to $3.14 at Pilot,Speedway and several other major name brands.

[DCP]

I paid 1.79 per gal today.
I must say thought, I had a $1.00 discount on the 2.79 gas from Kroger fuel points.
I got 20 gal, so I saved $20.00.
Kroger gives double points for prescription. Then most have 0.00 Co-pay

So there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I still wont spend any money at Gas Station. Do miss my cherry ice e though

[HATCH]

Gas here is $1.979 for regular unleaded.
$2.239 for road diesel.

I drove 100 miles away and fuel was the same price as diesel here.
50 miles away it was $2.189

we haven't even tapped into Iran oil yet.
Whats crazy is check this out

147218

[AK Caster]

Does any body remember the terrible gas shortage of 1973?

When it suddenly started gas was selling for around .30-35 per gallon and the local gas stations seemed to have a never ending supply.

After sitting in long lines for the first time since WW2 everyone was willing to pay any price to purchase gasoline.

Well the petroleum industry heard our cries and gladly raised the price up to .89 a gallon and suddenly the supposed shortage vanished.

Working at a station that was well on the way to pumping 3 MILLION gallons of gasoline that year we had trucks there every day and new many of the drivers.

They said that if there was an abandoned tanker or station anywhere you could be sure the refineries were using it as a storage area.

At the same time my brother had a friend that worked on the barges that ran the Illinois river from Chicagoland down to the Mississippi.

He and his tugboat captain father said that if any barge was capable of storing gasoline it was full and pushed high up on the banks in every location they could push any barge into.

When the industry finally convinced us to pay TRIPLE what we had been paying just a few months before suddenly there was enough to go around for everyone.

YES I am that old but my memory has not forgotten that scam the petroleum industry pulled on us.

I remember but my version is a heck of a lot different than yours. The following is a quote from another source:
The 1973 oil crisis began in October 1973 when the members of the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Arab_Petroleum_Exporting_Countries ) (OAPEC, consisting of the Arab (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) members of the OPEC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC) plus Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt), Syria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria) and Tunisia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisia)) proclaimed an oil embargo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embargo). By the end of the embargo in March 1974,[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis#cite_note-USstate2ndCrisis-1) the price of oil had risen from $3 per barrel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_(unit)) to nearly $12. The oil crisis, or "shock", had many short-term and long-term effects on global politics and the global economy.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis#cite_note-cbc-2) It was later called the "first oil shock", followed by the 1979 oil crisis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_oil_crisis), termed the "second oil shock

[Bad Water Bill]

How can I ever forget that winter?

My inlaws flew in from Germany to await the birth of their first grandchild in October.

Finally on the mourning of Dec 25 labor pains started.

0015 12-26 1973 my daughter arrived.

Who can ever forget having the folks here but not daring to take them anywhere because I had to save gas to take my wife to the hospital at any time but we did make it.:bigsmyl2:

[mold maker]

I had just bought a 73 Chevy Suburban with A 454 CU" gas guzzler. It got 4 MPG when delivered. What a shock to the finances.
Guess what happened when I traded it, for an 03 Dodge crew cab?
Can it be my fault? Every time I trade, the gas prices go wild. We should be safe for a while, the 03 Dodge only has 67K and will likely outlast me.

[starmac]

Our prices hasn't gone up, but I wish it would go down to 3.39999
Bill I lived on the gulf coast during the fake, (TOTAL FAKE) shortage of 73. Union contractors were working around the clock enlarging tank farms, and super tankers were lined up out at sea, waiting for a place to unload.
I still lived there in the next FAKE shortage, we could only buy gas on odd or even days according to our license plate number. All that accomplished was to get the plates stolen off of every vehicle I owned.

[randyrat]

All the Oil and gas investors seem to be sitting in one big room waiting for any bad news to come out in the early morning (10 AM for them) so there is a reason to raise the price.

I swear on it I can go any direction from Rice Lake, N. E. W. or S. ad find gas $.05 to .15 less Why would I buy gas there. So Question, Do they all pay different prices for gas and diesel? or is it market based?

[starmac]

Market based, volume based, competition and distance from the tank farm all plays into it.

[dragon813gt]

Most things are market based. I can either buy parts for my vehicle in the city, second poorest in the US. Or I can buy in the suburbs. The parts are always cheaper in the city. Same thing for WalMart prices. And same thing for gas. They know the prices need to be cheaper if they want to sell a product in the city. It's not always a big savings. But a lot of little ones tend to add up over time.

[Bad Water Bill]

Come to Chicago.

Gas is always .10-.20 per gallon more than the suburbs and .30-.40 cheaper if you drive ACROSS THE STREET into Indiana.

[jcwit]

Ya, its all market based. Like I said earlier, one refinery "BP" has problems, all oil companies say gas stations or convience stores raise their prices 50 to 75 cents per gallon, everyone keeps right on driving just as before, nowhere has any pumps been empty, obviously there is no shortage.

Outcome?

Companies make a huge profit here in the Midwest.

Today I see prices dropped to $2.65 from a $2.99 high, must be the beginning of a surplus for the holiday weekend.

[smokeywolf]

BP drills for oil and does what with that oil? Do they sell it to other oil companies? Do they sell it to themselves? Do they just truck it off to their own refineries? How much of the oil going into BP refineries comes from BP oil production operations and how much comes from other companies or is purchased from other Countries?

As an example, if the majority of the oil that goes into BP refineries comes from BP itself, then even if oil prices were bid up in the commodities market, BP's actual cost to produce fuel didn't really go up.

If you're a refinery that must buy oil from other companies to produce fuel, then the cost of oil has a very direct effect on what you must spend to produce your product.

If you are an oil producer who owns your own refinery then the cost to extract oil from the earth has an effect on what you must charge to produce a profit. However, if the market price of your oil goes up, but the cost to extract it and deliver it to your refinery did not, then what has compelled you to raise the price of your fuel?

[wills]

Come to Chicago.

Gas is always .10-.20 per gallon more than the suburbs and .30-.40 cheaper if you drive ACROSS THE STREET into Indiana.

Would a difference in state gasoline taxes account for that?

[jcwit]

Would a difference in state gasoline taxes account for that?

Michigan has a higher gas tax than Indiana. Most of the time Sturgis Mi. has cheaper gas then Fort Wayne, Elkhart, Goshen, South Bend, Indiana.

Now explain that!!

BTW Sturgis sellers get their fuel from the same suppliers as those Cities I mentioned in Indiana.

Skunk in the wood pile? YUP!

[GSM]

"However, if the market price of your oil goes up, but the cost to extract it and deliver it to your refinery did not, then what has compelled you to raise the price of your fuel?"


Supply and demand.

Duh.

[jcwit]

So you are telling me the supply is greater in 20, 30, 40 miles away from Sturgis, Mi.

While the greater populace of people from Sturgis come to Indiana for work.

Supply & demand my butt.

[smokeywolf]

"However, if the market price of your oil goes up, but the cost to extract it and deliver it to your refinery did not, then what has compelled you to raise the price of your fuel?"


Supply and demand.

Duh.

And supply is manipulated by reducing refining capacities.

[starmac]

So you are telling me the supply is greater in 20, 30, 40 miles away from Sturgis, Mi.

While the greater populace of people from Sturgis come to Indiana for work.

Supply & demand my butt.

It is just a matter of time till all stations in the cities go out of business with no demand for the gas.
The last time I checked, supply was just of the supply and demand equasion.

[dragon813gt]

And supply is manipulated by reducing refining capacities.

Market manipulation at it's finest.

[dtknowles]

In a market with predictable and little changing demand (inelasticity of demand) and an adequate supply (elastic supply) only completion will keep prices in check. Lacking completion prices will increase. If suppliers choose not to compete for customers based on price they can raise prices if they believe the potential competitors will raise prices as well.

Refinery problem was just an excuse to raise prices and everyone jumped on board.

Since there was no real shortage......prices should go back to normal.

You could always get one of them plug in hybrids and not buy gas.

Tim

[jcwit]

Well I have drove a Tesla, and it is quite a car to say the least. Very fast too!

[Russel Nash]

I am wondering if caustic cracking is what caused the shutdown???

EDIT: I would suspect that with the major airports by Chicago that a lot of what the BP Whiting refinery produced was jet fuel (kerosene basically). I'd be curious if jet fuel prices also spiked up.

When I was in Mt. Vernon, IL checking out AR15 prices at their WalMart, I stopped to get gasoline at a Pilot station. It was $2.399. But then when I drove back to the west about 60 miles, gas was like $2.859 .

[DCP]

Report from NBC news

The refinery is up and running in Indiana
We should see a .20 to .50 price drop in the next 2 weeks

So it goes up .50 to 1.00 over night ,then it take 2 week to go down about 1/2 :rolleyes: :groner: :veryconfu

[Bad Water Bill]

Any bets till it goes down again?

This is the refinery that processes 250,000 bbls a day of that liquid sandpaper from Canada.

How much sanding does it take to sand a hole in the pipeline?

[Russel Nash]

Give it a rest, dude.

[jcwit]

I predict a surplus by Labor day and gas at $1.75 per gallon. hehehehehe

[Plate plinker]

BWB. You know they have accidents at the whiting facility often. It will shut down again. Watch.

Not sure where Fort Wayne gets it fuel from but sturgis likely comes out of my home town of Niles MI. There is a modest tank town as we called it over ther just south west of town. A busy place indeed.

[tomme boy]

$1.40/gal on the stock market. Free jar of Vaseline with every fill up!

[onceabull]

tomme boy: Is that price the quote for the September 42,000 gallon contract FOB New York harbor ? Or--??? Onceabull

[MaryB]

There is no sand in it when it is pumped, it is the acid in it that is eating holes in things!


Any bets till it goes down again?

This is the refinery that processes 250,000 bbls a day of that liquid sandpaper from Canada.

How much sanding does it take to sand a hole in the pipeline?

[Bad Water Bill]

Sorry Mary but I did some homework before making that statement.

Try this.

http://www.desmog.ca/2013/10/24/koch-brothers-tar-sands-waste-petcoke-piles-spread-detroit-chicago

There are several TV reports on the growing piles along the Calumet river
(http://www.desmog.ca/2013/10/24/koch-brothers-tar-sands-waste-petcoke-piles-spread-detroit-chicago)

[Rick Hodges]

Well the price of gas around here (Detroit area) is back the same as before the "breakdown".

[snowwolfe]

The entire system is rigged. In Colorado we are still paying upwards of $2.75 a gallon for 85 octane yet we are no where near where the refinery shut down.
I have zero pity on the oil industry if low prices forces some to be laid off or business's to be closed. After the way we been lied to and gouged for years with these made up stories they deserve it.

[jmort]

Saw $2.02 in Arkansas yesterday. I paid $2.12 at truck stop in Arkansas on the way back and $2.20 in Missouri when I left. Was hoping to see sub $2.00. No luck on my drive from Missouri to Arkansas to Memphis and back.

[Bad Water Bill]

Still $3.10 just 20 miles from the B P refinery.

So much for how far from the refinery.:evil:

[Plate plinker]

Dagummit Bill you know you are in Commie controlled Illinois comrade. Why would you expect any price change? Somebody surely has to fund Rahms projects.

[MaryB]

Petcoke is a byproduct of all heavy oils when refined. It is not sand, it is carbon.


Sorry Mary but I did some homework before making that statement.

Try this.

http://www.desmog.ca/2013/10/24/koch-brothers-tar-sands-waste-petcoke-piles-spread-detroit-chicago

There are several TV reports on the growing piles along the Calumet river
(http://www.desmog.ca/2013/10/24/koch-brothers-tar-sands-waste-petcoke-piles-spread-detroit-chicago)