Pedersoli 1886 45-70 question

[stubbicatt]

Guys, I'm loading a 510 grain round nosed bullet for my Winchester 1885. I wonder if any of you knows, will the 1886 Winchester feed these rounds, and do I need a different mould for a flat point if fed from the magazine?

Thanks in advance.

Is it difficult to disassemble to clean properly after shooting black powder?

[NSB]

If you google it, there is a detailed drawing out there showing Pedersoli's dimensions for their chamber and throat. It's fairly easy to find but I didn't save the link. I owned two of those exact guns and returned both of them for full refunds due to the fact they didn't function at all. I never even got to shoot them. They look really nice but........ Anyway, if the chamber is to original SAMMI specs, you probably won't be able to chamber them. My current Win/Miroku 1886 had to have the throat reamed out almost .2500 (by Turnbull, so they know what they're doing) to even chamber a Hornady 350g flat nose bullet. It's a pretty simple procedure to lengthen the throat and a competent gunsmith can do this for about a hundred bucks or so. After that it will chamber anything. I will tell you this ahead of time though. That things going to be killing on both ends. It's too light a gun to shoot any amount of those cartridges at a shooting session. I've found my best accuracy and most enjoyable shooting using lighter bullets and at very slow velocities. Most shooters using bullets that heavy are shooting them out of some reasonably heavy single shot rifles, and are shooting at long distances. For hunting and informal target shooting you'll find the 350g to 430g bullets a lot more enjoyable to shoot at around 1300-1400fps. Good luck. Suggestion: make up a dummy round and keep shortening it until it feeds. Big question is, will it chamber?

[stubbicatt]

Thanks for your experience NSB. I've only ever shouldered the one, and it subjectively felt heavier than my 1885. Maybe it wasn't heavier. I had been thinking on getting a repop Pedersoli 1885, but then I saw that 1886, and it was a handsome rifle. If it doesn't work, but it looks great, it would remind me too much of my second wife for me to bring it home! ;)

I have a dummy round maybe the store will allow me to try to cycle in the action, or maybe they will do it for me.

Another choice would be a neat trapdoor, but the ones I have seen around here obviously show their age, the wood is dark and metal not so swell. As whatever I get will be a shooter, I'm not willing to risk a barrel rupture or any such thing, this criteria pretty much removes from the running anything I've seen recently.

I think the dummy round chambering experiment might be a good place to start.

[NSB]

Stubbicat, take a dummy round to the store with you but make sure it doesn't have a primer in the primer pocket so the clerk knows for a fact it's a dummy round. That's one way to do it. I have both a Win/Miroku 1886 and a Win/Miroku 1885 and both are flawless in both function and performance. I thought from reading your post that you already had the Pedersoli. I'm not trying to bash Pedersoli, I love their Sharps 1874 guns and their High Walls. No problems with any of those. Pedersoli had a known problem with the 1886 and I ran that whole thing into the ground with the two I bought. I liked them so much I even tried to pay someone to fix them rather than return them. I couldn't get anyone to touch them since they were already aware of the problems with them. You'd have to take one apart to really appreciate how truly bad they are inside (we did that with them). Also, warranty will be a major problem with them if you look in to where they need to be sent to get worked on (with no determined fix in place as yet) and the frequency of the factory authorized repair person visiting that location. It could sit there a long time and still not get repaired. Anyway, I'm getting off track. Have you thought of just buying a new Win/Miroku in 45-70 or a good used one? I found one NIB at a dealer in PA and got it at a very good price. I had Turnbull do some work on it for my own personal customization and while they had it they lengthened the throat for a very modest price. It shoots very, very well and functions flawlessly. Just a thought.

[stubbicatt]

NSB I had seen the Pedersoli 1886 at a local store, and hadn't noticed one before. I really liked how it felt in my hands, and how it shouldered. Until then, I was thinking of another 1885, a clone, to save wear and tear on my Winchester 1885, manufactured in 1888. The one I have has a period spirit sight on the front but a short staffed Lyman on the rear, which, near as I can tell, makes it about a 200 yard rifle.

I have held a Pedersoli High Wall clone at another store, and it is not nearly as nice as my original, but, it wouldn't concern me as much if it got dinged up or something. Dings are a concern every time I take that rifle out of the safe. What kind of wood is that on the clone? It has a sort of "off" color. :cry:

I'm glad you posted to this thread, as I am reticent now, and think I will pass on the Pedersoli 1886. I cling to the hope that Pedersoli has remedied the issues that plagued your rifles, as I think I read elsewhere that you bought them in 2013 or maybe earlier. Nonetheless, just in case the issues you experienced persist, I think I'll pass, and maybe search out something else.

It's kind of hard not to take it personally when you spend a great deal of money for something that is so obviously a lemon, but truthfully I haven't purchased a new factory firearm in at least 15 years that didn't need to go back to the manufacturer for a very obvious defect in function, except some CZ rifles, and a custom BAT actioned rifle. I have come to accept poor workmanship, and no longer expect something to work as intended. Acceptance has lowered my blood pressure, improved my vocabulary, and kept me from grinding my teeth and drinking too much. It has also helped me to set realistic budgets, knowing as I do that whatever I pay for a firearm these days is just the beginning, I reckon another 50% more money will be required to get it right.

Cabela's has the 1886 on sale now for something like $1,200, which seemed like a good deal until I read your woes. --One of the things I don't understand very well is how the single shot goes for nearly $2k while the repeater is only ⅔ that price?????

(Cuz they don't work??? LOL)_

[NSB]

I'd suggest you look at a Win/Miroku 1885 High Wall which can be found NIB for around $1100 and the Win/Miroku 1886 can be found for around the same price or just a couple of hundred more. Both are very, very well made and very accurate. If you want a little "bling", you can have them dolled up with CCH or some such thing. Running a reamer in them will open the throat up enough to shoot, feed, and chamber any bullet and they'll shoot well enough to make anyone very happy. I had my 1886 "reverted" back to original configuration by removing the tang safety and filling the hole with a welded plug. The chamber was reamed to allow using any bullet, and it was CCH. It's flawless in mechanical function and shoots better than I can. The Win/Miroku 1885 is the most accurate single shot I own. Look around a bit and don't rush into anything. There's some good options out there.

The "off" color on the wood is my poor photographic skills and indoor lighting. They're both walnut and underneath the durable but bland finish is actually some figure to the wood.

[MT Chambers]

That boolit is meant for single shots, and would have to be seated too deeply in the case to function through the action, and you would have no crimp groove to use. I don't have a Petrocelli so can't be sure but there are plenty of good fp molds out there at 500 or more grains and you would also have a proper crimp groove to use, a good example is my NOE 460-500 FP is either gc or pb.

[stubbicatt]

Thanks fellas. Food for thought.

Talked to Cabelas last night and they said I could order one of the Pedersolis to the store but if I didn't want it I didn't have to buy it. I thought that was pretty nice, but since at this time I don't believe I'll buy one, I didn't ask them to do it. No sense in hanging an albatross around their necks for no reason.

[stubbicatt]

The "off" color on the wood is my poor photographic skills and indoor lighting. They're both walnut and underneath the durable but bland finish is actually some figure to the wood.

Oh. No. I should clarify. The rifle at the LGS has a sort of odd hue to it. I wasn't commenting on any of your photos. Sorry if I was not clear on that. :)

[Wind]

Hey there stubbi -- NSB has offered some good advice. Having passed on the 1886, you might consider some of the Marlins. My 1895 Cowboy and Limited II are favorites. Both wear MVA tang sights and are good for a 1,000 yards. 300, 350 and 405 grain bullets are fun to shoot. www.gmdr.com has some great loads suitable for leverguns.

146629 146630

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[NSB]

That one on the right is a fine looking lever gun. Is that the Limited II ? I've been wanting to get a pistol grip 45-70 with a shotgun butt plate.

[Wind]

Hey there NSB -- Yes indeed. It is also one exceptionally accurate rifle. I ran it the last year they offered the "Offhand Category", and in the levergun category at The Quigley Buffalo Rifle Match. I'd highly recommend one!!

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Best regards. Wind

[NSB]

Wind, please don't post or put any more pictures on here. You've a very, very bad influence. People like you lead me astray quite easily. Now I've got to go look at one of those. I don't NEED another 45-70, but...........:veryconfu

[T45LC]

I have a Pedersoli 86-71. Sometime back I posted a reply on this site about feeding. The feeding problem was solved, by good cleaning of the action, especially the magazine tube /and follower. After cycling and the action numerous times, it was as smooth as silk. The following factory ammo, cycled with no feed problems. Winchester 300 grain JHP, Hornady 325 grain FTX, Armscor USA 300 grain JHP ( hot 1900fps ). I have reloaded 458/405 gr WLNGC and 458/300 gr FPGC LBT bullets no failures to feed or function. I believe ( not proven ) that these firearms were not cleaned after factory proof and test firing, as I found brown crud, which I thought was rust at the time on the magazine follower and some powder residue, which turn out to be a hardened grease or lubricant which caused feeding hang ups, when I first tested the firearm. I have ( remaining ) two Brownings, one Save 99/358win, and two Winchester lever rifles which never had failures to feed. Always safety check and clean a new firearm, because it may have been stored for some time before it was purchased by you. By the way, I was able to chamber a 500gr FMJ 458/45-70 dummy round single loaded only into the chamber as it is too long ( OAL ) to enter the loading gate. For old Winchester 45-70 Model 1886 loads/ 26" barrel, page 299 Hornady manual 1977 edition : 500 grain .458 DIA ( jacketed ) round nose, 30.4 grs 2400 1300 FPS. The original Winchesters may have a slightly longer loading gate.

[NSB]

Both of the ones I had were rough inside with many, many burrs on all internal parts. In addition to that, the mag tube wasn't lined up straight to the receiver and the cartridges came out of the mag tube crooked. No fix to that. I went as far as contacting Turnbull to see if they could get the gun to work. They wouldn't touch it. They said they had a couple they purchased for their conversion work and had the same troubles I was having and declined to do any work on them. At that point I sent the second one back and got a refund on it. I would suppose some did work, but after getting two in a row that didn't I decided enough was enough for me. Also, if you buy one and send it in for warranty work the gun goes to a different state than the repair person lives in (or it did a couple of years ago when I bought the two I had). I spoke to the factory warranty gunsmith and he said they had a problem and the fix wasn't determined at that time. If it went back, no telling how long before it was returned. I would have really liked to have one but based on all of that, it seemed like it just wasn't meant to be. I'm glad someone got a good one.

Edit: I've owned several Pedersoli Sharps rifles and never had a problem with any of them. All tack drivers and well made. I think they dropped the ball on this one. I'm not bashing Pedersoli, just sharing my experience with this one model of gun they make.