Old Machines

[ReloaderFred]

There has been a lot of discussion about the older loading machines lately, so I thought I'd post a couple of pictures of my Load a Matic press, made by the Tri Standard Manufacturing Co. back in the early 1950's. Mine is fully operational, and is set up for loading .38 Special.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20005.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/ReloaderFred/media/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20005.jpg.html)

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20004.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/ReloaderFred/media/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20004.jpg.html)

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20003.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/ReloaderFred/media/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20003.jpg.html)

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20002.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/ReloaderFred/media/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20002.jpg.html)

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20001.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/ReloaderFred/media/Load%20a%20Matic%20Press%20001.jpg.html)

Hope this helps.

Fred

[salpal48]

Great looking Machine. Looks very involved for The set up. Once it's set it stay That way

[beeser]

Yes, very nice machine indeed. Glad you resisted the temptation to have it powered. Have you dug into the history of how the machine was developed?

[ReloaderFred]

I haven't delved into the developmental history of the machine. Mine was built in 1955, and was the 10th machine made, according to Randy Gillespie.

Our department had one of the early machines, and when I was on the pistol team in the late 1970's, they let us clean it up and load our match ammunition on it. I was rangemaster at the time, and I loaded all the department's .38 Spl. practice ammunition on an AmmoLoad machine (about 60,000 rounds per year).

To me, the AmmoLoad looked like a modern version of the LoadaMatic machine. Between the members on the team, we probably loaded around 100,000 rounds on the LoadaMatic machine, which we had set up in my garage at home. I wish I knew what ultimately happened to that machine, as well as the AmmoLoad?

When I had my machine refurbished by Randy Gillespie, the son of the last owner of the LoadaMatic company, he tried to get me to let him motorize it, but I deferred. There are no safeguards on the machine to tell if the primers aren't feeding, powder check, etc. The AmmoLoad had all those, and being familiar with both machines, I preferred to keep mine manual.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[ReloaderFred]

There was never an owner's manual for these machines, according to Randy Gillespie. He said whenever his father sold a machine, he required the new owner to spend a minimum of 3 days with him, learning the machine and loading lots and lots of ammunition on it.

I wish there had been a manual, since several of the settings are critical to the whole operation. If one gets out of whack, everything is screwed up........

When I bought this machine, it was missing the primer slide, and the previous owner had no idea where it was. That was why I sent it to Randy for refurbishing, and $710.00 later, it runs pretty smooth, with the exception of the primer feed. I'm still working on that problem, but hope to get it worked out pretty quickly.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[beeser]

Fred,
There was an interesting article in the 9th Edition of Handloader's Digest written by Ken Waters where he briefly discusses the Joe Dircks (Tri Standard) loader and the influence that a gentleman by the last name of Buchanan had in its design. I believe this is the same Buchanan that was involved in the development of the Star loader.

[44Vaquero]

Fantastic machine!! Lets see a quick video of it in operation!!! Please!

[ReloaderFred]

I was doing good to post a few pictures, let alone a video. Besides, it takes one hand to operate the machine, and I don't think I could hold the camera steady while pulling on the handle...........

Fred

[ReloaderFred]

beeser,

I would very much like to read Ken Waters' article in Handloader's Digest. When I get some spare time, I'll see if I can locate it.

It would be interesting if Buchanan was involved in the design of both machines, since the concept is so different between the two.

Fred

[beeser]

beeser,

I would very much like to read Ken Waters' article in Handloader's Digest. When I get some spare time, I'll see if I can locate it.

It would be interesting if Buchanan was involved in the design of both machines, since the concept is so different between the two.

Fred

My memory has played a few tricks on me. The author of the article is Ken Walters not Waters and there is one more article that I can't immediately recall that mentions the Buchanan tie with Dircks. I'll write back if it comes back to me.

[44Vaquero]

That's just a good challenge Fred! It's a gorgeous machine and your pictures are very excellent!

[MtGun44]

Kinda flimsy looking to me. I'd bet if you hit it with a locomotive at 80 mph, it
might get damaged, a little.

:bigsmyl2::kidding:

[ReloaderFred]

It's all I can do to lift it. I built the frame for it to sit on, and then had a friend help me lift it into place. Not being young anymore doesn't help, either..........

Fred

[Mike Kerr]

Very impressive indeed. You have obviously put a lot of effort into the restoration and mounting. Thanks for sharing with us. I think the machine is cool and your background story is equally good.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Nice! I want it!

That would cost a pretty penny to make today, even with CNC Technology!

The primer feed is always the boog-a-boo!

And what I had to work on the hardest when I was rebuilding and playing with the RCBS Green Machines!

The timing is SUPER critical and amazing in how just a tweek can change things for good or bad!

That is probably the closest manual loader to a Camdex I have ever seen!!!

[ReloaderFred]

Mike Kerr,

I did some cleaning on the machine, but the full restoration was done by Randy Gillespie. All it took from me was getting it there, and the transfer of $710.00 from my wallet to his....... My friend dropped it off and picked it back up again on a trip through Kingman, AZ, so I saved a bunch on shipping. Since it weighs so much, I would imagine the shipping alone would have been a couple hundred dollars for the round trip.

seagiant,

Beeser was kind enough to send me a link to an old article about these machines, and the inventor, Joseph Dircks. In the early 1950's, he was selling his motorized Loadamatic for $1,500.00, which was a princely sum of cash in those days. There's no mention of what the manual versions were selling for, though, but I would imagine somewhere in the $1,200 to $1,300 range. Since mine was the 10th one Mr. Dircks manufactured, and he was fitting each machine together by hand, I'm sure there were improvements made on the later machines. The one my old department had ran as smooth as can be, but I have no idea when it was actually made, but if my memory serves me right, it was exactly like the machine I have now.

I'll keep tweaking the primer feed until I either get it working properly, or I just pre-prime the cases and run them through that way, with the decapping punch removed. Mine is currently dropping 3.2 grains of Bullseye, but I want 3.4 grains, so I've got to open up the hole in the powder slide a little bit to get what I want.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[seagiant]

Hi,
For me, in my mind, if you can't get it to load as intended (by the maker) with the primer feed working it is JUNK!

Of course this is IMO!

That may seem harsh, but if not, you can do as well (or better) with a good single stage press and a loading block!

All that to say, it would be a crime for such a nice machine to not run correctly!

Go on U tube and look at all the vids on the RCBS Green Machine and they are just running the machine wide open but look at the resizind/depriming die.

They are running pre primed brass and not using the primer bar.

Just sayin, that nixes the "progressive" in a progressive reloader!

Good luck with it! Sweet machine!

[beeser]

Fred,
What exactly is wrong with the primer feed?

[ReloaderFred]

beeser,

I've tried Federal, S&B and MagTech primers through it, and they all have the same problem. It will feed several just fine, and then it will either shave a small sliver off of one and jam it up, or it will get one cocked crooked in the slide and the slide can't come forward. Sometimes I can gently wiggle the primer slide back and forth and get the primer to straighten itself out enough to free the slide. It may, or may not, deform the primer during this process. It is the proper slide for small primers, too.

The problem appears to be in the transition from the primer tube to the primer slide. I've thoroughly cleaned the primer tube, and the primer follower moves freely in the tube. The follower is there to provide pressure on the column and to let you know how many primers are left in the tube. I've taken the whole primer assembly off the machine and given it a good cleaning, but there's still some little thing that I haven't seen yet that is causing the problem.

The primer seating punch also had a small divot out of one side of the punch, which made a mark on the primers. I've had a new one made, but have yet to install it. I don't like my primers to have marks on them after seating..

I've found that a can of compressed air, like they use on computer keyboards, is handy for blowing debris out of the priming area, which helps to some degree. I've been having about 5% of the primers get jammed and ruined, and I'm trying to eliminate that problem, and it's the same with the three brands I've tried. I'll keep working on it as I have time, but projects around the house have kept me away from the machine. I've taken out over 20 trees on my property, and only a couple more days and that project will be out of the way... Then I have to finish remodeling one of the bathrooms... It never ends!

seagiant,

This isn't my only machine by any means. I do most of my loading on my Hornady LnL AP, along with a Rockchucker and two Hollywood Seniors. (and a MEC 9000gn, with electric motor) This one is for nostalgia and between my wife and I we go through anywhere between 8,000 and 10,000 .38 Spl. ammunition per year in matches. The Loadamatic will speed up that process for the .38's, once I get it running properly.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[seagiant]

Hi,
You might want to see if you have a chamfer around the edge of the hole in the primer slide.

This is the hole in the slide that carries the primer from the tube to the seater or punch.

Just thinking what might make things smoother.

You probably have already figured this out, but some don't, and a chamfer will help the primer find the hole in the slide better!

If you do decide to chamfer it,then get some 600 grit or crocus cloth and polish it! Just thinking?

[ReloaderFred]

When I get a chance to work on it again, I'm going to use a fine Cratex wheel on the hole in the primer slide to just break the edge. I prefer Cratex to sandpaper for these jobs, since it leaves a highly polished surface. I normally finish it off with a pointed felt wheel with some Flitz Metal Polish.

Fred

[seagiant]

Hi,
Sounds good!

One other thing in the mix is the return spring for the primer slide.

It is not only a return spring but also "pre loads" the slide on its way forward to pick up the primer.

If it is weak (after 30-40 years) it will not have enough load and may end up in a different place each time! (Where it stops to pick up the primer!)

This is of course very miniscle but can create problems. This also goes hand in hand with the chamfer discussed before.

Small things but when lumped together create a problem that will make you tear your hair out. Don't ask how I know this!

Just thinking!

[beeser]

Fred,
I vaguely recall reading about an issue with the primer feed on the Dircks machines and the remedy for it. I think it had something to do with the platform under the slide and it oddly involved .38 Special cases only. I'll try to find the information and post back again. In the meantime, is the pathway for the primer underneath flat or slightly recessed?

[ReloaderFred]

beeser,

It's a flat surface that the primer slide travels on. The primer slide is a 1" wide piece of flat stock, with a slot and a hole. The slot allows the primer seating punch some leeway for travel, and the hole carries the new primer to the seating station.

I hate to put you to the trouble of searching for the old article, but it would sure help......

Thanks,

Fred

[beeser]

beeser,

It's a flat surface that the primer slide travels on. The primer slide is a 1" wide piece of flat stock, with a slot and a hole. The slot allows the primer seating punch some leeway for travel, and the hole carries the new primer to the seating station.

I hate to put you to the trouble of searching for the old article, but it would sure help......

Thanks,

Fred

I'll do my best to locate the info. It didn't occur to me before but why not contact the guy who worked on the machine before? He might have an easy fix or suggestion.

[ReloaderFred]

That was going to be my next step if I couldn't fix it myself, but I took out a little time this afternoon to work on the machine and it appears I've got it fixed. I only ran 25 rounds through it, but it was as smooth as could be.

I took the whole slide and priming assembly apart and cleaned up everything and removed a couple of small burrs and chamfered a couple of openings. When I put it back together, I paid special attention to alignment, and that appears to be where the problem was. The slide wasn't perfectly aligned so as to center the primer punch with the primer pocket of the case, so I fixed that. The other problem was the primer tube was just a smidge (highly technical term) off center from the primer slide.

After I got it all cleaned, lubed and aligned, I loaded it up with primers, bullets and cases and ran off the 25 rounds without a hitch. Now back to cutting up trees.........

Hope this helps.

Fred

[beeser]

Good job Fred. You are a man truly worthy of that fine machine.

[ReloaderFred]

Thanks, beeser. Hopefully I'll get to put in some time on it pretty soon. Only about two more days of cutting trees and chipping up limbs..........

Fred