6,000 fps?

[Yodogsandman]

So, while shooting at the range yesterday, the guy next to me says he's shooting his 416 Lazzaroni at 6,000 FPS. He gets his rounds custom made by Lazzaroni for $10 apiece. I had to ask him to repeat that! Certainly sounded like 6,000FPS with that muzzle brake on it, just 4 feet away!

[bhn22]

Lazzeroni doesn't even advertise half that velocity. Has the guy been shooting his braked rifle indoors without hearing protection?

[Schrag4]

I thought steel barrels erode pretty quickly when you get above a certain point, well below 6k FPS - am I remembering correctly? I'm guessing he has lots of money to burn and just wants to see what's possible. Not my thing but hey, he's paying someone's salary (barrel and custom ammo makers) so more power to him.

[snowwolfe]

So, while shooting at the range yesterday, the guy next to me says he's shooting his 416 Lazzaroni at 6,000 FPS. He gets his rounds custom made by Lazzaroni for $10 apiece. I had to ask him to repeat that! Certainly sounded like 6,000FPS with that muzzle brake on it, just 4 feet away!

Should of asked him if he has been hitting the pipe to much:)

[williamwaco]

6000 fps.

I don't think so.

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_sacart.htm

Maybe 2700.

[fixit]

i'll bet he was mistaking 6000 fp. sound about right for the energy on that round?

[Gofaaast]

Ya just gotta love those folks at the range, or anywhere that have no clue, yet know it all. I was talking to a older gentleman at work a few years back before deer season. I ask if he was ready and he said that he still needed to sight his rifle in with the new box of ammo he bought. I ask him what caliber, 30/06 he says so I ask him what bullet, 200 grain round nose he says. The following week I ask him how it went and what yardage he sighted it in for. 200 yards he said, but with those heavy round nose bullets it will shoot dead on even at 500. I ask if he would put a Franklin on the best group at 500. I don't want to take your money he said. I just smiled and let him walk away. A few days later he came up to me trying to sell me on how flat those 200 grain round nose bullets shoot, still had not got his deer though. He said he missed few that were a long ways off because he aimed over them and that heavy bullet just didn't drop.

[MBTcustom]

Why not? They already advertise their rifles defy Newton's laws of motion.


With the short, fat case design, both felt recoil and muzzle blast are significantly reduced when compared to the long, belted magnums of equal performance.

In the industry, we refer to this as horse hockey.

[williamwaco]

Hockey?

We pronounce it differently in Texas.

[Yodogsandman]

After 3 shots each with his 338 and 416 Lazzaroni's, he left. I think he saw my groups with cast boolits and was embarrassed. I would call him a jabroni.

Oh, I couldn't help it, so told him that mine cost 8 cents apiece.

[376Steyr]

Years ago I was at the range when a fellow shows up with his custom large bore Superzapper Magnum. I forget what velocity he quoted me, but it struck me as highly improbable. I don't remember what the chambering was, but I do remember when I helped him police up his brass that every case head had a bright, shiny ejector mark imprinted on it.

[JeffinNZ]

After 3 shots each with his 338 and 416 Lazzaroni's, he left. I think he saw my groups with cast boolits and was embarrassed. I would call him a jabroni.

Oh, I couldn't help it, so told him that mine cost 8 cents apiece.

Awesome result.

[Teddy (punchie)]

I just say really!! and that nice!! and let them talk and make noise.

Then I make noise. Then they ask ??

I say 300 Ackley they ?? They ask what ?? I say you don't know. Them I show them and tell them.

They ask why do you wait so long to shoot, I explain the old barrel's about shot out 1.5 " groups is as good as it gets. If I shoot her hot they are 2.5-3.0" They just leave shorty after. Just let them make noise.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

is there a metric 6000 fps ? :veryconfu

[M-Tecs]

There is a theoretical limit around 5,000 fps for a conventional rifle/powder combinations based on the speed of the flame front.

[RED333]

is there a metric 6000 fps ? :veryconfu

6000 m/s is 19685.0393700787 F/S

[Plate plinker]

I chrono my .204 at 4200-4300 f p s and I thought that was fast. What ever.

[nvbirdman]

6000 fps is nothing.
I've gotten up to 6500 fps without a chronograph.

[35 shooter]

Lol i just thought i had heard some good ones at the range lately! WOW!

[M-Tecs]

I don't believe these were ever fired but it is the fastest moving gun and ammo. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23131359/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/russia-has-corner-guns-space/

[KenH]

Yea, FP is what the guy was meaning - from the website, the FPS is <3000fps, but
the FP is >6,000 at the muzzle.

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_lacart.htm (this end is FP of engery)


10.57
(.416)
METEOR®
300
400*
3100
2800
2888
2634
2686
2474
2493
2320
2308
2171
2131
2028
—
—
—
—
6403
6965
5559
6165
4809
5440
4143
4784
3350
4190
3026
3656
—
—
—
—

[xs11jack]

I ALWAYS get 6500fps without a chronograph, sometimes even 7000!!!
Ole Jack
(If I laugh any harder I will choke)
OJ

[waksupi]

I'm just wondering, how many shots would it take at 6000 fps to toast a barrel? 5? 10?

[DanWalker]

There is a theoretical limit around 5,000 fps for a conventional rifle/powder combinations based on the speed of the flame front.
BINGO! We were told the MV of the 120 mm sabot rounds we fired from our Abrams were doing 5000fps. I don't doubt it. They would tear the turret right off a T72 and send it twirling.

[tdoyka]

I ALWAYS get 6500fps without a chronograph, sometimes even 7000!!!
Ole Jack
(If I laugh any harder I will choke)
OJ

i get 7500fps out my super dooper magnumitis!!!:shock:
(must not laugh, must not laugh, must not lau.....:lol:)

[Whiterabbit]

The annoying thing about muzzle energy. 1/2*m*v^2. second order benefit from velocity. So shoot that 30-378 or 338 lapua at max and you get 5000 or 6000 ft lb of energy. Meanwhile my 510 wells express plods along at 1500 fps and gets me to a fairly weak 4000 ft lb of energy at the muzzle with an 850 grain boolit, and all the same recoil energy. Sure makes it look like a junker on paper.

[Akheloce]

Heck, PO Ackley couldn't do it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Eargesplitten_Loudenboomer

[xacex]

Sometimes I get 7000fps out of my 1911. My chrony tells me so. ;-)

[NavyVet1959]

Sometimes I get 7000fps out of my 1911. My chrony tells me so. ;-)

Chronys are less likely to lie to you if you treat them nice and don't shoot them. :)

[xacex]

Chronys are less likely to lie to you if you treat them nice and don't shoot them. :)
The last one dies with a boolit straight through the middle. This one is just fine with the hole on the left flank. I have a new one, but I like seeing those awesome numbers on the screen. Who else get 7000 fps out of a 45acp lol.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

So, while shooting at the range yesterday, the guy next to me says he's shooting his 416 Lazzaroni at 6,000 FPS. He gets his rounds custom made by Lazzaroni for $10 apiece. I had to ask him to repeat that! Certainly sounded like 6,000FPS with that muzzle brake on it, just 4 feet away!

Sounds like he either didn't know that 6000ft./lb. of energy was something subtly different, or he was mumbling it. These technicalities confuse a man.

[waltherboy4040]

Next time you see him you gotta tell him about your 50 bmg necked down to 17 that does 10k fps!!!!!

[Lonegun1894]

I remember reading about a .50 BMG necked down to .22 in Cartriges of the World--and the comments that it burned barrels out in a ridiculously low number of rounds, but didn't know the BMG had been necked down to .17.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Chronys need to be zeroed you can't just let them add up the shots 3 shots, or was that 2 or one. Aw will call it one and round it to 6000 I bet that's where the mistake was. :veryconfu

[Teddy (punchie)]

Way before they get it sighted in.
I'm just wondering, how many shots would it take at 6000 fps to toast a barrel? 5? 10?

[Plate plinker]

Next time you see him you gotta tell him about your 50 bmg necked down to 17 that does 10k fps!!!!!

That must me the 17 super wizzer I've heard about. Yours has a suppressor no doubt?

[Kent Fowler]

There is a theoretical limit around 5,000 fps for a conventional rifle/powder combinations based on the speed of the flame front.

There was a test done, years back in one of the gun magazines, with a .257 Weatherby using 50 grain 25 acp bullets. It was an interesting article but the writer never gave the powder type or charge grains, but did state the velocity was around 5300 fps. Can't remember if he had used a chrono or if he was just extrapolating. He did say there was a solid line of fire out of the barrel going partially down the range, but nothing ever reached the target as the bullet burned up in flight.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Now those are funny things not to mention. I would be skeptical of that 5300ft/sec. in any conventionally designed or Weatherby-designed rifle, or of extrapolation in general in such circumstances, let alone when total uselessness of the results is allowed to come into it.

British magazine testers of motorcycles used to produce distorted figures for the standing quaorter-mile for high advertising spenders. Not that they would lie about the figures. That would be wrong. But if you start just a few feet above the first sensor cable on the track, which you ought to be right up against, you get an unrealistically high acceleration figure. With the best will in the world (and was it?) chronograph readings can be raised by positioning the thing close enough to catch an exceptional rush of gas (and wasn't there?) past and ahead of the bullet.

Acceleration is proportional to thrust and inversely proportional to weight. So gases released at the muzzle, being almost perfectly elastic and far lighter than metal, can accelerate at an amazing rate. Just look at what happens when you release the spring in your ballpoint pen.

[Rick Hodges]

Hockey?

We pronounce it differently in Texas.

Here in Michigan too....heheheh...

[Lonegun1894]

There was a test done, years back in one of the gun magazines, with a .257 Weatherby using 50 grain 25 acp bullets. It was an interesting article but the writer never gave the powder type or charge grains, but did state the velocity was around 5300 fps. Can't remember if he had used a chrono or if he was just extrapolating. He did say there was a solid line of fire out of the barrel going partially down the range, but nothing ever reached the target as the bullet burned up in flight.

I wouldn't be surprised at those velocities. A friend and I, in our younger and dumber days, wanted to work up a varmint load for our .308 Win bolt guns. In our infinite wisdom, and having read that you could use a listed powder load safely with lighter than listed bullet, decided to start with whatever powder we were using at the time ( I can't remember what it was anymore), and to ensure proper expansion, we chose the Hornady 90gr JHP. Now this was just after high school and my partner in crime borrowed his fathers chrono, and according to it, we were getting just over 4000fps at ten feet from the muzzle. Now due to our limited budget, we just bought one box of 100 of these bullets, which in hindsight was a blessing, because it took us about a dozen shots to figure out that we would never get this load sighted in. It was shooting groups of just under an inch at 50 yds our of both our rifles, but we couldn't hit paper at 100 yds, and finally realized that there was a small puff of smoke around the 75-85yd range. Our bullets were coming apart in flight, but we weren't smart enough to realize it at first, so when we did, we did the only reasonable thing we could do. We set up targets at 85-90 yards and tried to see what kind of shotgun patterns we could get with the last handful of those loads that we had left. And that was when we both started saving up to buy .223s because our plan of using .308s for EVERYTHING had just fallen apart.

[458mag]

Try to exsplain bullet drop and trajectory let alone wind drift to any of them. There majic rifle takes care of all of that. Had one guy tell me he never has to clean his super zapper because it had a stainless barrel.

[Whiterabbit]

Had one guy tell me he never has to clean his super zapper because it had a stainless barrel.


Haha! But, but, but, but, it's stainless!

[David2011]

Had a guy get really indignant with me the other day for insisting that the M-14 was a magazine fed selective fire rifle. He insisted it was a bolt action because he had shot one in the army. Maybe he had M-14 and M40 confused?

David

[kfarm]

If you were in the army in the late 60's trained and carried an M14 you wouldn't confused it with a bolt gun. I was in an combat heavy engineering unit as a photographer, carring 2 cameras, M14, ammo food and water would make your day. Never got to hold a M16 but on occasion toted a pig (M60) OH! how I'd love to have a M14 now even a 60 would be fun as long as I didn't have to hump one again.

[MOcaster]

I had a guy tell me he was getting 4000 fps out of factory 270 Win ammo. Nope, nope you're not.

[GaryN]

In my younger days I was playing with a 220 swift. I was shooting 45 grain bullets as fast as possible. Some of them were hitting 4250 chronographed but they were very inconsistent and didn't group very well at all. It was a pretty worthless load.

[Blacksmith]

What was the Muzzle Velocity of the Asperly Aimless? I think I heard it was so fast that no one was ever able to chronograph one.[smilie=s:

[M-Tecs]

Just last month a had a guy telling me a 7mm Rem Mag was no good close since it took a couple of hundred yards for the bullet to speed up.

[MBTcustom]

Just last month a had a guy telling me a 7mm Rem Mag was no good close since it took a couple of hundred yards for the bullet to speed up.

BAM!!! Owe!!!
accidentally slapped myself in the forehead too hard again.

[M-Tecs]

BAM!!! Owe!!!
accidentally slapped myself in the forehead too hard again.

and the gentlement is an engineer and has been hunting for 40 plus years.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Best real documented velocity I have heard of is 5000 fps. That was the Sabot Anti Tank round out of the M68 105mm main gun on the M60 tank. The projectile is a 37mm Tungstun projectile packed in a Sabot sleeve . The sleeve leaves the "dart" shortly after leaving the barrel and the two halves were lethal to within 100 meters. The Sabot round had a wear factor of 5 on a tube that was rated at a wear factor of about 125 brand new. The projectile would penetrate all known armor then used (to include 13 inches of battleship armor) when I went through TC school in 1973.
Mike in Peru

[kfarm]

Wow 13" of armor that's what all the Arkansas boys gonna want for deer this year.

[castalott]

I'm doing this from memory so here goes...... The Navy has an electric gun that shoots a styrofoam pellet that weighs a few grains at 22,000 fps. At 10 feet it will penetrate several inches of steel with a large nasty hole.... There are a few drawbacks for hunting as the gun is 10's of feet long and bolted to a concrete floor. It requires massive amounts of electricity and some sharp sensors and computers. If I'm wrong...sorry......but that is how I remember the article....

[kfarm]

Back in 69 in Germany a main road to post went by the tank range. It was so close to the tanks, that when I was driving by in my little I mean little Fiat the muzzle blast would almost roll it up on 2 wheels. Now I don't think a GI would ever wait till a car or jeep was driving by BUT they did. Kinda fun if you were ready for it but if not it would scare to ump outta of you. And the noise WOW.

[M-Tecs]

Kinda fun if you were ready for it but if not it would scare to ump outta of you. And the noise WOW.

Tell me about it. I was on the other side of a tree row when a 155 touched one off at about 0730 on a quite Sunday morning. I had no idea they were there. I was about 40 yards away.

[tdoyka]

hmmph, you guys and your antique guns.:veryconfu

which one is better?

1. star wars blaster
2. star trek phaser
:bigsmyl2::groner::kidding:

[M-Tecs]

hmmph, you guys and your antique guns.:veryconfu

which one is better?

1. star wars blaster
2. star trek phaser
:bigsmyl2::groner::kidding:

Neither - Death Star rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jonp]

Sometimes I get 7000fps out of my 1911. My chrony tells me so. ;-)

Mine does too now that ive shot it to remind it who's boss

[jonp]

Just last month a had a guy telling me a 7mm Rem Mag was no good close since it took a couple of hundred yards for the bullet to speed up.

No you didn't. If you had you would still be in the hospital after laughing so hard you threw up a lung

[Whiterabbit]

Mine does too now that ive shot it to remind it who's boss

OK I snorted at that one. Very good.

[NavyVet1959]

The last one dies with a boolit straight through the middle. This one is just fine with the hole on the left flank. I have a new one, but I like seeing those awesome numbers on the screen. Who else get 7000 fps out of a 45acp lol.

You have to keep the old one around in case the new ones start feeling a bit uppity. Just point out to them, "this could be you".

[Butchman205]

I used to get amused when I would be chatting at the range with some "gun magazine quoting expert".

One of the easiest identifying comments was when they would say point-something (but you can normally spot them visually)..."I sight my rifle at blah-blah at 100 yards, blah-blah point blah-blah at 200 yards, and blah-blah point blah-blah at 300 yards."

At which time I would put a snuff can on top of a Benjamin and offer "$100 says you can't hit this snuff can at 300 yards...much less measure point-something at 300.

I never had a taker, but got some pretty foul language thrown my way.
However...one of the guys I had challenged made the mistake of challenging me with the same bet (on a very low wind afternoon). Easiest $100 I made for a while.

Nowadays, I smile and say,"Wow! That's cool!"
(I've got more friends than I used to have.)

[Whiterabbit]

hmmph, you guys and your antique guns.:veryconfu

which one is better?

1. star wars blaster
2. star trek phaser
:bigsmyl2::groner::kidding:


Neither - Death Star rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Death star, huh. I bet I could get a lot of black powder down the muzzle of that baby.

I'd say getting the roundball in place would suck, but it wouldn't weight anything. So, not so bad. Seating it would be a real bastard, though.

[AZ-JIM]

I had a guy tell me something similar recently about his .4xx something caliber rifle doing 6k. I asked if he was sure it wasn't energy, he swore up and down it was FPS.
I did get a good laugh out of the comment about the 7mag not reaching full velocity until a couple hundred yards down range.

az-jim

[Mytmousemalibu]

Anyone remember the Remington Accelerator's? What kind of velocity did they push? I have some of the Eabco sabots I got to mess around with at some point, some of their load data for the larger cartridges like 30-06 and .300 Weatherby Mag boasts over 5,000fps. In this instance or any light projectile/sabot rounds I would not be surprised by some smokin hot velocities being laid down.

[M-Tecs]

Anyone remember the Remington Accelerator's? What kind of velocity did they push? .

I still have a box of 55 grain 30-06. Box says 4080 FPS

http://www.eabco.com/Reports/sabot03.gif

[Mytmousemalibu]

I still have a box of 55 grain 30-06. Box says 4080 FPS

http://www.eabco.com/Reports/sabot03.gif

I wouldn't mind happening across a box of those just to have as a curiosity, thought that was just plain neat when I saw them!
Thanks for the info!

Wonder what some of the Etronic's stuff costs these days, lol. I think you can still buy Etronics primers at some stupid high price!

[M-Tecs]

I
Wonder what some of the Etronic's stuff costs these days, lol. I think you can still buy Etronics primers at some stupid high price!

Stupid high price is an understatement http://www.midwayusa.com/product/831855/remington-etronx-electronic-primers-box-of-1000-10-trays-of-100

[merlin101]

Just last month a had a guy telling me a 7mm Rem Mag was no good close since it took a couple of hundred yards for the bullet to speed up.

That's cause the rocket motor in it doesn't ignite till it's 100yds out from the muzzle!:roll:

[MBTcustom]

I used to get amused when I would be chatting at the range with some "gun magazine quoting expert".

One of the easiest identifying comments was when they would say point-something (but you can normally spot them visually)..."I sight my rifle at blah-blah at 100 yards, blah-blah point blah-blah at 200 yards, and blah-blah point blah-blah at 300 yards."

At which time I would put a snuff can on top of a Benjamin and offer "$100 says you can't hit this snuff can at 300 yards...much less measure point-something at 300.

I never had a taker, but got some pretty foul language thrown my way.
However...one of the guys I had challenged made the mistake of challenging me with the same bet (on a very low wind afternoon). Easiest $100 I made for a while.

Nowadays, I smile and say,"Wow! That's cool!"
(I've got more friends than I used to have.)


OK, first of all, I want to go shooting with you, and uh, make sure you bring your wallet. LOL!

Actually, I may steel your idea. I quit tobacco recently, and this would make a wonderful celebratory postal shoot here on the forum wouldn't you say?

[Butchman205]

OK, first of all, I want to go shooting with you, and uh, make sure you bring your wallet. LOL!

Actually, I may steel your idea. I quit tobacco recently, and this would make a wonderful celebratory postal shoot here on the forum wouldn't you say?

Sounds like a plan to me!
I suggest no backing target, but a snuff can only.
One shot, cold barrel.

[dtknowles]

There is a theoretical limit around 5,000 fps for a conventional rifle/powder combinations based on the speed of the flame front.

I don't think this is correct, it must have been in the late 60's or early 70's, I read reports of wildcat .22's that broke 6000 fps.

Found this on another forum "According to Barnes Reloading manual, " the 30 -378WBY lauched an experimental zinc alloy bullet at 4800fps+, a later projectile was chrono's at over 6000fps. This research done by U.S. Army. No data on barrel life or accuracy. But as long as your at it, you might as well by barrels by the dozen if you want to play maximum velocity"

Tim

[dtknowles]

Heck, PO Ackley couldn't do it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Eargesplitten_Loudenboomer

That is too large a case, the 22-284 will break 5000 fps, trying to push too much slow powder down the barrel will hurt your performance. P.O. did not have the powders we have today either.


I found this after a little searching "Many hours have been spent reading thru older publications regarding the 22-284 and searching web forums for load information. There is not a lot of info on this cartridge as most shooters just write it off as an extreme overbore with diminished returns on powder burnt, along with short barrel life. To my delight I found an old forum thread that mentioned a 22-284 project back in the 60’s, once I gathered some bits and pieces on the article I found that it was a “Guns & Ammo magazine” August 1964 issue titled “ 6000fps world’s hottest .22! by Bob Hutton “. I did a search on e-bay for the old Guns & Ammo 1964 issue and for $7.00 shipped it now resides in my reloading library. Reading the article makes one envious of the developers of that era, as mentioned in the article regarding velocities of 6585fps and showing some cartridge high pressure signs. Then slowing things down a bit to 220 swift pressures clocking in at 6300fps

Tim

[dtknowles]

and the gentlement is an engineer and has been hunting for 40 plus years.

must have been an electrical engineer :bigsmyl2:

[dtknowles]

I wouldn't mind happening across a box of those just to have as a curiosity, thought that was just plain neat when I saw them!
Thanks for the info!

Wonder what some of the Etronic's stuff costs these days, lol. I think you can still buy Etronics primers at some stupid high price!

I think you can still buy the sabots, I got a few hundred a couple years back. I have shot a bunch out of my 30-06 with cast bullets at over 3800 fps and expect I could have pushed them to well over 4000 fps.

Tim

[Love Life]

OK, first of all, I want to go shooting with you, and uh, make sure you bring your wallet. LOL!

Actually, I may steel your idea. I quit tobacco recently, and this would make a wonderful celebratory postal shoot here on the forum wouldn't you say?

You have to use a 1911. Don't be skerred.

Top Definition
skerred (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skerred&defid=275449)
scared.. afraid of somthin
i aint never skerred!!

My sincerestest apologies for the slang, but I'm prepping for the Straight Outta Compton movie tonight.

[hithard]

Back in the late 80s I had an instructor that work for the DOD. they were trying to see how fast they could push a projectile. the biggest problem they found was when the projectile would obturate, this would strip rifle. Done by shear outward pressure, not so much by pushing down the barrel. this would also cause the I.D. of the barrel to expand. Smooth bore was the way to go they soon found out. They also tried staged detonation to cut down on obturation, using propellants, gas, and air pressure. They tried plastic sabot rounds, even found that these would strip rifling and degrade barrel life to even one shot. Sorry I don't recall what the fastest fps was they achieved as it was a long time ago. He was a great instructor and always up for tweeking a firearm in one respect or another.

[Harry O]

There is a theoretical limit around 5,000 fps for a conventional rifle/powder combinations based on the speed of the flame front.

I thought that too. Then I ran across an article called "6,000feet per second -- the world's hottest .22!" in the August 1964 "Guns & Ammo" magazine. It was written by Bob Hutton, a G&A Technical Editor. It used a recently introduced .284 case necked down to .22. A chronograph was used.

The first problem was blowing up bullets over about 4,300fps. They had special heavy jacket bullets made weighing about 50 to 53gr. Accuracy was best around 4,000fps, but did not decrease much until 4,600fps was reached (about 2" at 100 yards). That was the maximum with 50gr bullets.

Then they had a bunch of 32gr bullets made. They made it to 5,350fps, but accuracy went downhill fast. Accuracy was about a "barn door" at 100 yards at maximum velocity.

Then they started using even lighter bullets. The lightest one tried was 15gr, which gave 6040fps on a regular basis with poor accuracy. They also listed one shot at 6,585fps, but listed "Caution!" on it. He stated that "the .22-6000 {was now} a fact and the .22-7000 {should be} just around the corner." He said that he was planning to try a Weatherby .378 Magnum case necked down to .22 caliber next. He also intended to lengthen the barrel from 26" to 36".

I seem to remember that a .22-378 was a semi-mythical beast called the "Loudenboomer" or something similar.

[MBTcustom]

I seem to remember that a .22-378 was a semi-mythical beast called the "Loudenboomer" or something similar.

That would be P.O. Ackley's .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer


Ackley was not just a wildcatter, he was a researcher as well, often testing firearms to destruction in the search for information. He also produced a number of experimental cartridges, not intended to be practical, but rather to test the limits of firearms. One of these experimental cartridges was the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer. This humorously named cartridge was developed by Ackley for Bob Hutton of Guns & Ammo magazine, and was intended solely to exceed 5,000 ft/s (1,500 m/s) muzzle velocity. Ackley's loads only managed 4,600 ft/s (1,400 m/s)(Mach 4.2), firing a 50-grain (3.2 g) bullet. Based on a .378 Weatherby Magnum case, the case is impractically over-capacity for the bore diameter, and so the cartridge remains a curiosity. The advent of new slower-burning smokeless powders may have changed the equation, but in a cartridge case that routinely holds over 100-grains of powder, it is hardly worth the effort.[8]

Another humorous round, the .17 Flintstone Super Eyebunger, based on the .22-250 necked down to .17 caliber, has been used by Australian gunsmith Bill Hambly-Clark, Jr. to achieve velocities of 4,798 ft/s (1,462 m/s) out of a 52-inch (1,300 mm) barreled gun.[5]
146638

146639

146640

[M-Tecs]

Some interesting discussion here http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277331 & http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/what-fastest-cartridge-1040/

I will be the first to admit I am only repeating what I have read about the "theoretical limit around 5,000 fps for a conventional rifle/powder combinations based on the speed of the flame front"

I was not aware of the “Guns & Ammo magazine” August 1964 issue titled “ 6000fps world’s hottest .22! by Bob Hutton “ article but I do find it interesting that 51 years later no one has come close to duplicating those velocities.

http://knowyourzero.com/2014/05/27/22-284-winchester-cartridge-development/

"Then I will start running lighter 50grain and 45grain pills down the bore to have fun with pushing high 4100+ fps velocities after all isn’t that the fun of experimenting with an overbore."

On a side note I use to take in all P.O. Ackley wrote. After I chambered various Ackley improved cartridges and doing actual chronograph tests I have since sold my P.O. Ackley books and the 22-250AI is the only AI chamber I have left.

The 120mm APFSDS round used in the M1 Abrams reaches 5,300 fps.

[jonp]

Any idea how you would neck down brass like that with such an abrupt and radical shoulder?

[Plate plinker]

Any idea how you would neck down brass like that with such an abrupt and radical shoulder?
Me thinks they may have spun the brass?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Back in 69 in Germany a main road to post went by the tank range. It was so close to the tanks, that when I was driving by in my little I mean little Fiat the muzzle blast would almost roll it up on 2 wheels. Now I don't think a GI would ever wait till a car or jeep was driving by BUT they did. Kinda fun if you were ready for it but if not it would scare to ump outta of you. And the noise WOW.

This is one of the big advantages of electrostatic rail guns, if ever they become practical for land use. They have a less visible signature on vegetation and dust, and are probably less locatable by sound.

Penetration by ultra-high velocity is done all the time. A hollow charge accelerates the front casing, in the form of liquid aluminium, to a velocity which probably exceeds the natural velocity of propagation for high explosive that isn't in hollow-charge form. That means more than about 8000 metres per second. So liquid aluminium will penetrate great thicknesses of hardened steel.

[Harry O]

I was not aware of the “Guns & Ammo magazine” August 1964 issue titled “ 6000fps world’s hottest .22! by Bob Hutton “ article but I do find it interesting that 51 years later no one has come close to duplicating those velocities.

http://knowyourzero.com/2014/05/27/22-284-winchester-cartridge-development/

"Then I will start running lighter 50grain and 45grain pills down the bore to have fun with pushing high 4100+ fps velocities after all isn’t that the fun of experimenting with an overbore."



One thing I notice about the webpage listed above is that the rifle barrel was 1 in 9" twist. The G&A people had two barrels made. One was a 1 in 14" twist and one was a 1 in 24" twist. They got their best velocities with the 1 in 24" barrel. They seemed to think that the 1 in 24" twist was sufficient to stabilize the bullet at the speeds they were reaching. They thought the accuracy problems some of the bullets were having were due to problems with the bullets (internally), not the twist.

I would wonder if it was possible to shoot anywhere near their velocities they were getting with a 1 in 9" twist. Would the bullet strip and fill the grooves with jacket fouling at that fast a twist?

[M-Tecs]

Agreed about the twist. I don't know if they would strip but any conventional bullet would blow up. I still have a hard time believing the claimed velocity. The 1964 claimed velocity of 6585fps is over 1,000 FPS faster than anything verified in the last 51 years.

[DanWalker]

Greetings
Best real documented velocity I have heard of is 5000 fps. That was the Sabot Anti Tank round out of the M68 105mm main gun on the M60 tank. The projectile is a 37mm Tungstun projectile packed in a Sabot sleeve . The sleeve leaves the "dart" shortly after leaving the barrel and the two halves were lethal to within 100 meters. The Sabot round had a wear factor of 5 on a tube that was rated at a wear factor of about 125 brand new. The projectile would penetrate all known armor then used (to include 13 inches of battleship armor) when I went through TC school in 1973.
Mike in Peru

The 120mm sabot our Abrams fires is just more of the same. NOTHING I saw shot with them survived. When people ask me what combat in an Abrams is like, I tell them that it's as one sided as turning Mike Tyson loose on a grade school playground, armed with a baseball bat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHbf-Eb3xak

[dtknowles]

Agreed about the twist. I don't know if they would strip but any conventional bullet would blow up. I still have a hard time believing the claimed velocity. The 1964 claimed velocity of 6585fps is over 1,000 FPS faster than anything verified in the last 51 years.

The fastest plane ever was also developed in the 60's and still holds the record even though none are still flying.

Tim

[OnHoPr]

The guy may have been BSin or had a dyslexic moment. But, if you go back in Dr. Mann’s day and would of told that crowd that they make .17, .20, and .22 cals pushin 4500 fps out of a case similar to a 6mm Lee Navy, there would have been a bunch of powerful poppycock heresy actions taken. Just in the 21 century shotgun shot construction and slug performance has skyrocketed and does have a number of traditional thinkers bewildered, just look at hevi shot patterns. Even though I am only a freshman to the silver stream, I can see that this forum has some pretty high level cast boolit knowledge and the shooting sports in general. They have graphite chrome lined barrels now, so what may be in the near future with barrel steels or ceramics, which is leaping with technology. Back in the ‘70s or early ‘80s they made ceramic cases for benchrest shooters. Powders now are still evolving. Back not too long ago Blazer vanes in the archery were shunned to the same degree, but are now the number 1 vane in the country. So, I can see that in the not so distant future test subjects could be capable of such feats. Now, how long if it would come to the general market is another subject.

[M-Tecs]

The fastest plane ever was also developed in the 60's and still holds the record even though none are still flying.

Tim

Very true. I have done some restoration on an A-12 Blackbird http://www.sr-71.org/A-12 It's a very cool airplane.

During the 50's and 60's P.O. Ackley and Roy Weatherby made all sorts of velocity claims. Most of the were found to be overly optimistic after chronographs became common. 51 years gives lots of time for some independent verification. None including the military has come close. I will remain skeptical on the claim of 6585fps.

I worked in research & development for years. Anytime tests were too for out of the normal bell curve methodology and calibrations became suspect until everything was verified.

[M-Tecs]

The guy may have been BSin or had a dyslexic moment. But, if you go back in Dr. Mann’s day and would of told that crowd that they make .17, .20, and .22 cals pushin 4500 fps out of a case similar to a 6mm Lee Navy, there would have been a bunch of powerful poppycock heresy actions taken. .

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/12/i-n-arms-factories-in-ballistics.html

"In working with powders, he sought 8,000 feet per second and, according to Niedner, actually attained 4,000 f.p.s. But he would not tell anyone how he did this, for fear someone else would do it wrong and blow himself up.

Mann discovered many things that astounded even him. He calculated that a bullet travelling perfectly straight, hitting a hard target, would bounce straight back. Yet he could not believe this was actually true even when such bullets did come back to strike the muzzle. After several close calls, a horse blanket was set up to protect the firing area."

[Blacksmith]

One thing I notice about the webpage listed above is that the rifle barrel was 1 in 9" twist. The G&A people had two barrels made. One was a 1 in 14" twist and one was a 1 in 24" twist. They got their best velocities with the 1 in 24" barrel. They seemed to think that the 1 in 24" twist was sufficient to stabilize the bullet at the speeds they were reaching. They thought the accuracy problems some of the bullets were having were due to problems with the bullets (internally), not the twist.

I would wonder if it was possible to shoot anywhere near their velocities they were getting with a 1 in 9" twist. Would the bullet strip and fill the grooves with jacket fouling at that fast a twist?


Also Calculate the rotational speed of the bullet at very high velocities from fast twist barrels. The gyroscopic forces will tear a bullet apart.

For example 3,000 FPS from a 1 in 12 barrel is 180,000 RPM. Up it to 4,000 FPS in a 1 in 7 twist and that is 408,000 RPM.

[Blacksmith]

12,000 FPS
Don't forget Gerald Bull and his Super Guns.


The project was based on a flight range of the Seawell Airport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grantley_Adams_International_Airport) in Barbados (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados), from which shells (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_%28projectile%29) were fired eastward toward the Atlantic Ocean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Ocean) using an old U.S. Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Navy) 16-inch (410 mm), 50 caliber (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber#Caliber_as_measurement_of_length) gun (20 m); it was later extended to 100 caliber (40 m). In 1966 the project installed its third and final 16-inch gun at a new test site in Yuma, Arizona (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuma,_Arizona). On November 18, 1966 the Yuma gun fired a 180 kg Martlet 2 projectile at 3,600 m/s (12,000 ft/s) sending it into space (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line) briefly and setting an altitude record of 180 km (590,000 ft; 110 mi); that world record still stands as of 2013.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP#cite_note-astronautix-1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP