More woes with 40 s&w brass..... I think

[triggerhappy243]

WELL A 55 GALLON BARREL FULL OF 40 S&W BRASS FELL OUT OF AN AIRPLANE AND LANDED ON THE NEIGHBORS CAT. CAT IS NOW P.OWED. My not wanting to pass up A good education, I thought I might start to resize it all. I have been hearing about push thru sizer dies made by several reloading eq. co"s. My question is who makes them and is a case lube required to resize it?

[Ranger 7]

I do not use 40 caliber, but believe Hornady and Lee make the Push Through Dies.
If Carbide, should not need lube.

[oldfart1956]

Pick up one of Lee's 40 S&W factory crimp dies. Now unscrew the top and dump out the innards. You now have a 40 S&W sizing die/bulge buster. The carbide insert takes the brass down to factory specs. Lube isn't required but after you do a couple hunnerd you're gonna want some lube. It helps a bunch even with carbide. Here's how to lube a bunch cheap and easy. Grab a plastic bag and toss a hunnerd or so in there. Now grab the wifes can of furniture polish, Pledge or whatever cheap no-name brand is there. Spray a 1 second blast on the brass and shake it up. Dump it out and give it a few minutes to dry and start sizing. I put one of the sizing pins from another Lee sizer in the ram (where the shellholder goes) and push it all the way thru the die. I assume if you're casting you have another Lee bullet sizer die on hand but a feller could make one of them push pins in about 10 minutes with a link pin or bolt from the hardware store and a drill&file. I did up about 4K of the 40 S&W's this way. Audie...the Oldfart..

[anotherred]

For lube I use hornady spray lube. Throw the clean brass in a bucket, spray and have at it. Ooh, I've found the cleaner the brass, easier it is to resize.

[WarEagleEd]

Lee makes one and Redding makes one (GRX push-through sizing die). I don't own a Glock but, apparently, some models, if not all (I'm not a Glock aficionado) don't fully support the case head/base and a bulge forms near the extractor groove after firing. Not all firearms chambered in .40 S&W produce this bulge and it isn't really necessary to process cases fired through them with a push-through sizer. However, in a cache of brass as large as you have, I'm sure a fair number were fired through Glocks.

Ed

[rodsvet]

I use the Redding (non carbide) die. I get FBI once fire commercial brass in 5 gallon buckets. I use spray lube on a batch, drop them in the 650 hopper and go for it. Then tumble with SS pins and then store for use. All FBI is Glock fired. Never had a problem. Rod

[triggerhappy243]

So there are carbide push thru f/l sizers? Who makes them and does anyone here have any experience with them? I do not want to use any case lube. I don't use it on any other pistol cases.

[bhn22]

Re-read the first few replies. Not all dies will allow you to use them for push through sizing. You would have better results if you lubed the cleaned cases before sizing.

http://leeprecision.com/case-conditioning-tools/lee-bulge-buster-kit/

[waltherboy4040]

I use a lee bulge buster kit, lube isn't needed but some lee tube of toothpaste and a q tip works wonders.

To be honest I've actually stopped using it with my lee die set and haven't had a problem so far.

[WarEagleEd]

The Redding GRX comes in two versions, carbide and non-carbide. Looks like the Lee Bulge Buster requires that you have the factory crimp die for the case you are bulge-busting. I have no experience with either one.

Ed

[oldfart1956]

I just went to Titan Reloading and checked. If you buy the Lee Bulge Buster ($14) you still have to buy the caliber specific die to use it. If you buy the Lee Factory Crimp Die (90862 for .40/10mm) it costs $17.24 and all you need do is make or find a push pin that fits the ram to shove the case all the way thru the die. You need to unscrew the top and dump out the innards (crimper) before you do that. After you're done you can re-install the innards and use it as a crimp die if you wish. I use them on 9mm and 40 S&W without any problem. So, total cost...$17.24 plus shipping and make a pin. How much cheaper/easier can it be. ;) Audie...the frugal Oldfart..

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I have about 2,000 .40 S&W's that I have run through all of the steps leading up to reloading, including sizing, depriming etc. A lot of them were shot in Glocks before I received them. I had no trouble sizing them with a standard nitride coated sizing die. Some had a noticeable bulge from firing. The ones I have loaded and fired worked like a charm. The only trouble I had was with the operator, (me), and some Speer "pulled" bullets that we bought.

[Bullwolf]

So there are carbide push thru f/l sizers? Who makes them and does anyone here have any experience with them? I do not want to use any case lube. I don't use it on any other pistol cases.


The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, true to its name has a carbide ring inside.

The Lee Carbide FCD is simply a lower price point made die, and there's nothing wrong with it.

The Redding GRX system is a higher price point push through size die, and it's very high quality like most Redding dies are. Both will do what you are looking to do, (bulge bust 40) however the Lee Carbide die is MUCH cheaper initial investment.

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die

http://leeprecision.com/userfiles/images/38_FCD.jpg

The brass colored ring at the bottom of the image is the carbide ring in a Lee Carbide FCD in image above.

The Lee Carbide FCD is normally used in conjunction with a Lee push through sizer kit press insert, or shell holder pusher.
http://www.titanreloading.com/image/cache/data/Products/90049-250x250.jpg
If you reload, you likely already have a Lee push through sizer kit with a shellholder "push rod" that you can use, and would only need to purchase a Lee Carbide FCD (as sugested by Audie...the Oldfart) If not, you can purchase the complete "Bulge Busting kit" from Lee with the pusher, and pick up a Lee Carbide FCD Seperately.

Here's a link to the whole Lee bulge busting kit from Titan Reloading.
http://www.titanreloading.com/image/cache/data/Products/90487-600x600.jpg

http://www.titanreloading.com/image/data/D2g/90487_2.jpg

Of course the inexpensive Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die - the heart of the bulge busting unit is sold separately, so you would also need to purchase a Lee Carbide FCD (with the internals removed) to push the 40S&W brass all the way through.

Lee bulge buster kit = $14.99
http://www.titanreloading.com/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=bulge

Lee Carbide 40S&W Factory Crimp Die - $17.24
http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-crimp-dies/40-smith-wesson10mm-auto-lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-

So your looking at $17.24 for the 40 S&W Carbide FCD and your ready to go, if you already have the shell holder push rod from a Lee push through Lube and Sizing kit.

If you don't already have a pusher you can borrow, pick up the Lee bulge busting kit for an additional $14.99.

Total - $32.23 for both which is still a pretty decent deal.


Conversely, here's a link with a review regarding the use of the Redding G-Rx die system which does the same thing, only at a higher price point.
http://www.gundigest.com/ammunition-reviews-articles/reloading-handloading-articles-advice/shooting_fixglockbulge



G-Rx Push Thru Base Sizing Die

The new G-Rx Carbide push thru base sizing die is designed to restore fired cases from 40 S&W autoloading pistols that exhibit a bulge near the base without the need for case lube. By passing the case completely through the new G-Rx Carbide Die, the bulge is removed and the case may be returned to service.


http://www.redding-reloading.com/images/stories/media/grx%20carbide%20die.jpg

http://www.redding-reloading.com/images/stories/media/grx_die.jpg http://www.redding-reloading.com/images/stories/media/grx_adptr.jpg


Links below to the Redding G-Rx Push Thru Base Sizing die

http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&Itemid=15&id=121%3Ag-rx-carbide-die-set

http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&Itemid=15&id=3%3Ag-rx-push-thru-base-sizing-die

While Redding does not show prices on their website, I happen to have a Redding 2015 catalog and price list in my possession.

Item No. 96150 G-Rx Carbide Sizing Die* = $119.00
Item No. 96040 G-Rx Steel Sizing die* = $56.50
Item No. 96010 Optional Bottle Adapter = $14.90
Item No. 96020 Large 32oz HDPE Bottle = $9.60
* Includes Shellholder Pushrod

Your going to spend at least $119.00 for the Carbide Redding G-Rx sizing die before shipping. You can't even get the Steel G-Rx sizing die (lube required) for the cost of the entire Lee Carbide bulge busting system.

I will say that I do own the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die in 40S&W, and for the price it's a bargain for what you intend to use it for.

Redding makes EXCELLENT dies, in my opinion they are the top shelf brand of reloading dies. I absolutely cherish the Redding dies that I own, but in this case I don't think it's worth the extra cash just for a push through sizer/bulge buster application to purchase the more expensive Redding G-Rx Carbide die.

Other opinions may be much different than my own, but there you go.



- Bullwolf

[noylj]

Just in case it wasn't clear, the G-Rx and FCD are NOT sizing dies. They size the case down enough to fit any SAAMI chamber, but not as far as a real sizing die--so bullets can be very loose if you don't properly size the cases.
Thus, you are adding a step.

[triggerhappy243]

well I am starting to understand why no one in this part of the forest wants to mess with reloading the 40 S&W. it looks like a real pain in the Hillary Face. shooters in these parts have a real Woody for Glocks... I just dont understand. Give me a 1911 any day and Im happy.

[nicholst55]

Supposedly, Glock changed their chamber specs for the .40 S&W about ten years ago. Barrels made since that time do not cause the "Glock bulge". I owned a G22 Gen 4 for a while, and it didn't cause any case bulges. Running the brass through a standard sizing die is all that was required. Of course, I wasn't loading range brass at the time, either.

[Chris24]

I heard all the horror stories about .40 S&W in Glocks. About a year ago, I found a Gen3 23 with 357 Sig conversion barrel dirt cheap. I couldn't turn it down. I then loaded and shot hundreds of 357 Sig rounds with no problems.

I looked at the original .40 barrel, and it was just as well supported as the 357 barrel. In fact, .40 is slightly lower pressure than 357 Sig. I then got .40/10mm Lee dies, and loaded some range brass with them. No problems whatsoever. I even cast for it.

As long as you use published loads, and don't use deformed brass, you should be OK. From what I can tell, Winchester is the thickest, and RWS is the thinnest. R-P and Federal are in the middle. They all work fine for normal loads. The cases expand a little after firing, but never too much for the sizing die.

It's just not a popular round for reloaders. It could be because it's more of a police caliber, factory ammo is cheap, and/or reloaders prefer 9mm, .38/.357 Mag, .45 ACP, etc.

[Avery Arms]

You are grossly overcomplicating this, .40S&W reloads like any other handgun cartridge and you do not need any special dies or procedures unless you run into a problem. You may have issues if you have a very tight "match" chamber and are using brass from very loose chambers but for most guns you will be perfectly fine with range brass sized dry in an ordinary carbide size/decap die.

Around here .40 S&W is a very popular caliber to reload most people simply buy clean brass, dump it into their case feeder and load it size/decap, prime, charge/bell, seat, crimp, done. You can spend hours and hours pre-processing your brass if you want to but it's not normally necessary.

Now if you are in business selling processed brass or reloaded ammo you should be base-sizing your brass but that is done with a big automated roll sizer or punch press, any other way is too slow.

[ioon44]

I have loaded .40 S&W for years on my Dillon 550 with Dillon dies and shoot 2 different Glock's and have 2 Lone wolf .40cal barrels.

I have never needed any special dies for sizing using range brass, once in a while I will find a .40 that will not size down so I just pitch it in the scrap bucket.

I figure if a piece of brass is stressed that much I don't want to shoot it any way.

[dudel]

I have loaded .40 S&W for years on my Dillon 550 with Dillon dies and shoot 2 different Glock's and have 2 Lone wolf .40cal barrels.

I have never needed any special dies for sizing using range brass, once in a while I will find a .40 that will not size down so I just pitch it in the scrap bucket.

I figure if a piece of brass is stressed that much I don't want to shoot it any way.

+1 I see lots of .40 at the range; but I've only seen a handful with a bulge. They've been overstressed in a critical area. Toss em.

[KnotRight]

I shot my 3rd gen 23 last week and after reading this thread I when back to the brass that I resized and they do not show any sign of a bulge. I stuck them into a case gauge that is very tight and had no problem with them fitting in and dropping out.

[LabGuy]

I have a Lee Bulge Buster kit and Lee Factory Crimp Die for 45ACP and 380ACP. I also have a carbide Redding G-Rx set for 40 S&W. The Redding is an excellent tool and a pleasure to use. The Lee system works. I run my range pick up through them. I got the 45ACP after I had a few sized cases fail in a Lyman case gauge. Problem solved. I guess I got the 308 for the heck of it. For range pickup, I remove primers, tumble with stainless steel, and run through the bulge buster or G-Rx. So far with my firearms I do not have to run any of my brass through these dies, only range pickup.

[oldfart1956]

The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, true to its name has a carbide ring inside.

The Lee Carbide FCD is simply a lower price point made die, and there's nothing wrong with it.

The Redding GRX system is a higher price point push through size die, and it's very high quality like most Redding dies are. Both will do what you are looking to do, (bulge bust 40) however the Lee Carbide die is MUCH cheaper initial investment.

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die

http://leeprecision.com/userfiles/images/38_FCD.jpg

The brass colored ring at the bottom of the image is the carbide ring in a Lee Carbide FCD in image above.

The Lee Carbide FCD is normally used in conjunction with a Lee push through sizer kit press insert, or shell holder pusher.
http://www.titanreloading.com/image/cache/data/Products/90049-250x250.jpg
If you reload, you likely already have a Lee push through sizer kit with a shellholder "push rod" that you can use, and would only need to purchase a Lee Carbide FCD (as sugested by Audie...the Oldfart) If not, you can purchase the complete "Bulge Busting kit" from Lee with the pusher, and pick up a Lee Carbide FCD Seperately.

Here's a link to the whole Lee bulge busting kit from Titan Reloading.
http://www.titanreloading.com/image/cache/data/Products/90487-600x600.jpg

http://www.titanreloading.com/image/data/D2g/90487_2.jpg

Of course the inexpensive Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die - the heart of the bulge busting unit is sold separately, so you would also need to purchase a Lee Carbide FCD (with the internals removed) to push the 40S&W brass all the way through.

Lee bulge buster kit = $14.99
http://www.titanreloading.com/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=bulge

Lee Carbide 40S&W Factory Crimp Die - $17.24
http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-crimp-dies/40-smith-wesson10mm-auto-lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-

So your looking at $17.24 for the 40 S&W Carbide FCD and your ready to go, if you already have the shell holder push rod from a Lee push through Lube and Sizing kit.

If you don't already have a pusher you can borrow, pick up the Lee bulge busting kit for an additional $14.99.

Total - $32.23 for both which is still a pretty decent deal.


Conversely, here's a link with a review regarding the use of the Redding G-Rx die system which does the same thing, only at a higher price point.
http://www.gundigest.com/ammunition-reviews-articles/reloading-handloading-articles-advice/shooting_fixglockbulge




http://www.redding-reloading.com/images/stories/media/grx%20carbide%20die.jpg

http://www.redding-reloading.com/images/stories/media/grx_die.jpg http://www.redding-reloading.com/images/stories/media/grx_adptr.jpg


Links below to the Redding G-Rx Push Thru Base Sizing die

http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&Itemid=15&id=121%3Ag-rx-carbide-die-set

http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&Itemid=15&id=3%3Ag-rx-push-thru-base-sizing-die

While Redding does not show prices on their website, I happen to have a Redding 2015 catalog and price list in my possession.

Item No. 96150 G-Rx Carbide Sizing Die* = $119.00
Item No. 96040 G-Rx Steel Sizing die* = $56.50
Item No. 96010 Optional Bottle Adapter = $14.90
Item No. 96020 Large 32oz HDPE Bottle = $9.60
* Includes Shellholder Pushrod

Your going to spend at least $119.00 for the Carbide Redding G-Rx sizing die before shipping. You can't even get the Steel G-Rx sizing die (lube required) for the cost of the entire Lee Carbide bulge busting system.

I will say that I do own the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die in 40S&W, and for the price it's a bargain for what you intend to use it for.

Redding makes EXCELLENT dies, in my opinion they are the top shelf brand of reloading dies. I absolutely cherish the Redding dies that I own, but in this case I don't think it's worth the extra cash just for a push through sizer/bulge buster application to purchase the more expensive Redding G-Rx Carbide die.

Other opinions may be much different than my own, but there you go.



- Bullwolf This post really needs to be made into a sticky. It explains it all perfectly, right down to the function and cost of the dies. And links to the parts. What's not to love. Bullwolf, 2 thumbs up my friend. Audie...the Oldfart..

[rodsvet]

Sinclaire lists the Redding die kit for $36.99. I don't remember where I bought mine but that is what I paid for it 2 years ago. Mine is not carbide but many have had the carbide ring break in the past. I've run 50,000 thru mine without a hitch and the bore looks brand new.

[triggerhappy243]

My reloading supply house sells the redding carbide sizer for $70.00 Now I would think glock would have fixed the embarrassing bulge case issue by now. I do not yet have a 40 S&W but have a boat load of brass I cannot sell because no one wants to fool with it. not even sure if I really want one.

[David2011]

Why should Glock care? They build their guns for first run ammo. I shoot a match chambered .40 STI Edge. My brass is marked with "my stripe" and I try to recover only my brass at matches. If I end up with unmarked brass it goes through the Case Master Jr. before being reloaded. It's a push through sizer on an arbor press. I wouldn't have bought one; won this one at a USPSA match. For plinking most any ammo is good enough. For matches I want every round to be mechanically perfect. If I didn't have the Case Master Jr. I would use one of the press mounted push throughs.

David

[gloob]

I had the Bulge Buster kit at some point. I lost the bin, along with the bins for my bullet sizers. Whenever I have to use these tools, which is not that often, I just rig up a collector from a cup or something.

To use the 40SW FCD as a Bulge Buster, you need the 1. pusher stem (which you can buy from Lee for $3.00, or you can make from a cut down 9mm case filled with epoxy, set in your regular 9mm shellholder), and 2. you need an insert that goes in the die to prevent the cases from hitting and catching on the threading for the crimp ring. You can roll up a piece of paper and stick it in the top of the FCD. 3. Then you need a tub to collect cases. An empty fast food cup or butter container can do the trick. Or you can even just stick a rolled up printer paper into the top. This will take care of issue 2 and 3. It will hold about 11 or 12 cases, when full. Then you pinch it, hold it over your case bin, drop the full "mag", and reinsert into the top of the die.

[HATCH]

+1 I see lots of .40 at the range; but I've only seen a handful with a bulge. They've been overstressed in a critical area. Toss em.

Trust me when I say that you aren't looking closely enough...
I have seen over 100K glock fired 40 cal cases.
Most if not all have the bulge.
They were all once fired and all from Glocks.
I know this because I have access to all the brass fired at the state police range.
if I were to toss the ones with the bulge, I would end up with no brass.

When you look at a fired primer you will see a small rectangle around the firing pin. The firing pin looks like a teardrop not a round circle.
I will try and take a picture of what I am talking about.
I use a Lee FCD and it works great.

[HATCH]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/13/b0d855626d490eb184e825728084f416.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/13/1dae18646182a046cc888f16c7905a57.jpg

That's just 1/3 the brass from one month

[Chris24]

The rectangle is due to the shape of the striker channel on Glocks. I've seen that on every caliber. They all load fine for me.

[HATCH]

Yep.
They are load fine for me also but I know that I must use a FCD with glock fired rounds

[Slade McCuiston]

WELL A 55 GALLON BARREL FULL OF 40 S&W BRASS FELL OUT OF AN AIRPLANE AND LANDED ON THE NEIGHBORS CAT. CAT IS NOW P.OWED.

I guess I'm the only one worried about the cat.

[triggerhappy243]

Lol............................

[David2011]

So there are carbide push thru f/l sizers? Who makes them and does anyone here have any experience with them? I do not want to use any case lube. I don't use it on any other pistol cases.

I've tried a couple of methods. I tried pushing through a regular Dillon sizing die but it got pretty tight near the head. Magma Engineering alters a Dillon die by diamond honing it to remove the taper that Dillon builds in, according to the guy at Magma with whom I spoke. It's used in the Case Master Jr. of which I wrote earlier. Trust me, you do want to use case lube. The difference is dramatic. I use Dillon's lanolin based lube or the homemade version of it. It takes very little but makes a huge difference. I usually lightly lube about 10% of the cases and mix them in with the unlubed cases. The residual lube lasts a few cases. With the Case Master Jr. I put my Dillon case feeder on the CM Jr. and that really speeds up the operation. The only brass that doesn't go through the Case Master Jr. is that which I know has been run through my gun, identified by my distinctive colored stripe.


+1 I see lots of .40 at the range; but I've only seen a handful with a bulge. They've been overstressed in a critical area. Toss em.

If you have THAT much brass, maybe so. I shoot .40 brass until it cracks and have NEVER had one crack in the bulge area. They always split at either the mouth or in the side of the case just below the mouth. When they split bad nothing happens. If you reload a split .40 case and shoot it again nothing bad happens. I haven't but someone I know has. You can identify a cracked case very easily if you drop the brass a handful at a time on a wood surface. There is a distinctly different sound produced by cracked brass. I can even hear one in the Dillon media separator among a few hundred good cases because the sound is so different. All unknown range brass goes through the Case Master Jr. and none of it has ever given me any trouble. All of my .40 is match ammo run through an STI Edge. I'm loading to 945-950 fps with a 180 grain cast boolit to make USPSA major and get around10 reloads out of a case before they fail.

David

[gloob]

If you reload a split .40 case and shoot it again nothing bad happens. I haven't but someone I know has. You can identify a cracked case very easily if you drop the brass a handful at a time on a wood surface. There is a distinctly different sound produced by cracked brass. I can even hear one in the Dillon media separator among a few hundred good cases because the sound is so different.
Cool. I agree that if your gun has good support, bulged brass isn't a bother. Particularly if it smells like once-fired. But if your own guns are doing the bulging, and you have to debulge every loading, there is then a legitimate concern that the case may fail in a BAD spot.