Marlin 1894 Aftermarket Sights??

[Magnum Mike]

I recently acquired one (of the 251) 1894 stainless steel, grey/black laminated stocked, 16.5" barreled, 41mag lever guns with "fire sights". Personally, i think the fire sights look cheesy on it and would like to replace them with a nice steel set. A while back i had found a semi-buckhorn rear sight that also doubled as a vernier rear sight. It was a high quality unit and kinda spendy but ya only live once and this here lever gun deserves a REAL sight set. Anyone??

http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/mike/1894SS41a.jpg

[45 2.1]

Mike-
Would that be a vernier or a ladder? Link?

[imashooter2]

I'm an aperture kind of guy myself...

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/imashooter2/pictures/wgrs-c.jpg

[Magnum Mike]

Mike-
Would that be a vernier or a ladder? Link?

I believe it was a ladder but unfortunately, i dont have a link! :cry:

An aperture might possibly fill the bill too BUT i still gotta get rid of that cheesy front sight! :lol:

[imashooter2]

This may be the sight you were looking for... full buckhorn that folds up to a ladder:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,3129.html

http://www.buffaloarms.com/prodimg/SMI8003375.jpg

[45 2.1]

What I really want is something like on the old Remington rolling blocks, an open rear with a flip up vernier adjustable peep.

[Magnum Mike]

Thanks imashooter2!

Here is the semi-buckhorn version

http://www.buffaloarms.com/prodimg/SMI8003SB375.jpg
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,3466.html

They are pricey as i figger'd. Anyone have any experience with these sights?

[shooter2]

I would suggest trying the fire sight before taking it off. I have one on a Marlin 1895 (red) and on a Kimber 1911 (green). Just put that red or green dot on the spot you want the bullet to go. Works for me.

As for a rear sight, I have an aperature on most of my leverguns and they work about as well as these old eyes permit. I've had good luck with the Lyman 66.

[9.3X62AL]

Ima--

Izzat the Williams aperture sight on that Marlin? A rig like that would work well with my recently-acquired 94 in 32-20 that lacks D&T for the Lyman 66LA. it looks a LOT better in place than I first thought.

If you have access to a Brownell's catalog--or access their Internet site--they have a huge assortment of front sights available. Just gotta drift out the existing fire sight and replace it with a pattern of your choice, assuming both have the same 3/8" dovetail mounting. I expect that the fire sight is a lot better for hunting than for target applications, from my brief "look-sees" in gun shops. My decrepit ways have been formed using black sights, so I hear ya.

[Scrounger]

Ima--

Izzat the Williams aperture sight on that Marlin? A rig like that would work well with my recently-acquired 94 in 32-20 that lacks D&T for the Lyman 66LA. it looks a LOT better in place than I first thought.

If you have access to a Brownell's catalog--or access their Internet site--they have a huge assortment of front sights available. Just gotta drift out the existing fire sight and replace it with a pattern of your choice, assuming both have the same 3/8" dovetail mounting. I expect that the fire sight is a lot better for hunting than for target applications, from my brief "look-sees" in gun shops. My decrepit ways have been formed using black sights, so I hear ya.

I have some of the side mounted aperture sights and also a couple of the Williams top mounted aperture sights. My first thought on them was, "I hate them!" I thought they would be awkward and clumsy. Big surprise when I used them. They are a lot closer to your eye than the older type, and closer is definitely better. I am going to switch all my Marlins to that type sight.

[Sky C.]

IMASHOOTER2-

Which Williams sight is that? I know that there was a WGRS that would fit the 336 actions but did not know they made one to fit the 94 actioins. Is that an offering now?

Thanks-

Sky C.

[imashooter2]

That's the WGRS and it's the one made for a 336. I decided on that sight as it is unobtrusive and doesn't spoil the lines of my rifle.

To mount it, I used the front scope mount screw in the rear sight hole and drilled and tapped for a new front screw using the sight as a template. Did it with a hand drill, but you need to be very careful drilling as the hole breaks out into the slot that the tongue on the bolt rides in. Easy to snap off the drill if you don't have a lot of experience. If you don't drill, the sight hangs off the back of the receiver about 3/8 of an inch. I've seen them mounted to the forward scope holes... It works, but I didn't like the looks.

[imashooter2]

A picture of the WGRS mounted in the stock holes (not my rifle):

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/imashooter2/pictures/WGRS1894.jpg

[Sky C.]

Yep-

Makes sense. I think it's a good solution!


Best regards-

Sky C.

[Rrusse11]

Sky.,
Here's another alternative, including the front sight.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73953&item=7143651 039&rd=1
Amazing what surfaces there. Just scored a Marlin 1893 TD barrel and tube in bits, 95% complete.
Cheers,
R*2

[9.3X62AL]

Imashooter--

On the most recent picture--not of your rifle--is there only one screw retaining the sight, or are two screws used into the rear mount holes on the receiver top?

Thanks!

[imashooter2]

Imashooter--

On the most recent picture--not of your rifle--is there only one screw retaining the sight, or are two screws used into the rear mount holes on the receiver top?

Thanks!

The WGRS is made for the 336 and the holes on the 336 are drilled farther from the rear of the receiver. The sight in that picture is using both stock rear scope holes on an 1894. The guy that sent me the picture uses his that way. I decided to drill and tap as I describe above.

[Scrounger]

The sight shown is the WGRS. That is not the one I spoke of. Since Marlin no longer drills and taps their lever guns on the left side (Jeez, they must save 50 cents a unit there!) Williams added a version of their Foolproof sight for the Marlins designed to attach to the two rear scope mount holes. Those are what I have and I like them.

[imashooter2]

The sight shown is the WGRS. That is not the one I spoke of. Since Marlin no longer drills and taps their lever guns on the left side (Jeez, they must save 50 cents a unit there!) Williams added a version of their Foolproof sight for the Marlins designed to attach to the two rear scope mount holes. Those are what I have and I like them.

But just like the WGRS, they are made for the 336 and hang off the back of an 1894 action. Not busting on your choice, just general information. I agree about Marlin's poor choice to discontinue drilling the side of the receiver. It really limits your sight options.

[Bass Ackward]

Mike,

I have experience with a ladder sight like the one you show. But I had the guy that made it replace the buckhorn so the base sight was the same notch. My sight is an exact copy of those on early 92 Winchesters.

Be aware that these sights are pretty much one load sights. So the gradient has to be marked to cover the trajectory of that load. Otherwise the numbers on the ladder are meaningless. So what it amounts to is that you essentially have fixed sights that you MUST load for POI, not group.

I can shoot this sight like a champ, but that is the limitation. Kinda like Indiana Jones in the search for the Holly Grail. When they found it, it could not be removed from where it was. Always something.

Personally, I wouldn't buy this sight again.

[9.3X62AL]

Imashooter--

OK--thanks for the clarification.

Scrounger--

I saw that sight assembly you speak of on the Williams website. The site states that a hammer extension is required for thumb control of hammer. Is that the case?

Marlin's failure to drill their receivers for Lyman/Williams side mounts follows a trend away from this practice that seems to be almost universal among the gunmakers. I guess the gunmakers are just following the gunwriters' lead here, putting a scope sight on everything from plinking revolvers to 22-250's. Of course, a lot of gunmakers' products need the services of a gunsmith to finish building them--so the D&T can get done during that process.

Disgusting.

[DOUBLEJK]

Imashooter
Do you think it would be possible to drill another hole for a mounting screw in the sight base itself to match the existing holes in the top of a Marlin 1894?
Got one comin' in .45LC n that sight sure looks good... n like it might help out my ole eyesight a tad....

[imashooter2]

I looked at a lot of options before I drilled my rifle. There is no room to drill the WGRS and reversing it will not work either (unless you can live with the aperture barrel facing the muzzle). I have not looked at the FP close up and so can't say if there are any viable options there.

[C A Plater]

Williams has a new version of the fool proof for mounting on the newer Marlins without the side screws. It mounts on the top using the scope screw holes. You may have to put a taller front sight blade to compensate for the higher rear apeture postition.

[Magnum Mike]

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=799753


Williams FP-336 Set Receiver Peep Sight with Front Fire Sight Marlin 336, 1894 (Installs at Rear Scope Mounting Holes) Aluminum Matte
Williams FP Receiver sights have internal micrometers for a click-at-a-time adjustments and are constructed of strong, lightweight aluminum. Comes with a durable blue-black anodized finish.

Bruce Fritz of Olathe, KS
Rating: 5 stars
Date Posted: 5/20/2004

Review:
I put a set of these on my Marlin 1894SS. I mounted the rear sight in the front receiver holes. Doesn't get in the way of the hammer or safety. Works great, the front sight is alot easier to see than the factory sights plus the peep is better too.


http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=774488


Williams 5D-336 Receiver Peep Sight Top Receiver Mount for New Model Marlin Centerfire Lever Action with Factory Scope Mount Holes Aluminum Matte

Lightweight aluminum Williams 5D Receiver Sights are designed for rugged use and feature positive windage and elevation locks. Please note that your rifle's receiver must be drilled and tapped for installation.


Technical Specifications & Use
Parts:
Material:
Notes:

* Aluminum sight, adjustable for windage and elevation
* Designed to install by using the two rear scope mounting holes in newer model Marlin centerfire lever action receivers
* Includes two screws
* Marlin 1894 required a hammer extension.

[imashooter2]

Not to belabor the subject, but this was gone over in great detail at the old Marlin Talk site before it was shut down. The WGRS, FP-336 and 5D-336 sights are made to fit the 336 action and are not listed for use on an 1894 by Williams. Mount any of them in the rear scope holes on an 1894 and they will hang off the back of the receiver. Whether that bothers you or not is a matter of personal taste.

I wish I had a picture of the FP-336 mounted in the stock 1894 holes, but all I have are 3 shots of one attached to a home made spacer plate that moves the sight flush to the rear of the receiver. If any interest, I'll post those.

[Magnum Mike]

I appreciate the experience imashooter2! I am interested in these peep sights but dont want anything hanging off the back of the receiver! YUK!

If you mount one of these in the front mounting holes, will it look goofy and/or be hard to use??

[Pb head]

You can always D&T the reciever to take the older side mount reciever sights. That what I'm doing to a new 1894c 357.

Pb head

[imashooter2]

I appreciate the experience imashooter2! I am interested in these peep sights but dont want anything hanging off the back of the receiver! YUK!

If you mount one of these in the front mounting holes, will it look goofy and/or be hard to use??

I mounted the WGRS on the front holes briefly to determine if I would need a radically higher front sight (turns out I could use the factory front with the bead filed off to a square post). The sight works in the front holes. The factory .098 aperture is large enough that the eye finds it and you can see the front sight and target through it easily. IMO it looked very odd. I decided to drill for a hole in the right spot.

[Magnum Mike]

Thanks! Still not sure what direction i want to go on these sights, ARG!

I am, once again, leaning toward the ladder sight. I kinda wanted to try one of those receiver sights as i have never used one...

[JDL]

Mike,
You may want to look at a sourdough front sight for your new Marlin. Marbles makes them and Brownells has them for sale. I tried the firesight and didn't like it. The problem was if I was in bright light and the target was in the shade, the sight was so bright, it obliterated the target!-JDL

[Buckshot]

..............It is not difficult to install a Ly66 on an undrilled Marlin. To make it all real simple, lets say you buy the sight from Brownells. When you buy the sight, also buy a drill and tap to suit the supplied screws. Also buy a prick punch of suitable diameter to enter the screwholes of the sight.

When you have it all at home, take a piece of double sided tape and attach it to the action side of the sightbase. Using a square off the top of the action, square the base in the position you want. Stick the punch through one of the screw holes in the base and give it a rap with a hammer. Remove the base, then drill the hole. Tap the hole. Naturally you want to do both as straight as possible.

Install the sightbase with the one screw and re-square it. Use the punch to mark the 2nd hole. Remover the base, drill and tap. Clean it all up and Loc-Tite the screws and install.

Now, if you do not want to buy the tap, drill and punch from Brownells, don't. However chances of finding the tap for gunscrew threads at the local ACE is slim, but the correct number bit should be available, and ditto a suitable punch, or one you can file/grind to size. For the tap you're looking at someplace like McMaster-Carr. Lots of gunscrews are finer pitched then common fine threads like 8-32 etc. Maybe 8-36 or 8-40.

..............Buckshot

[imashooter2]

-snip-
Install the sightbase with the one screw and re-square it. Use the punch to mark the 2nd hole. Remover the base, drill and tap. Clean it all up and Loc-Tite the screws and install.

Now, if you do not want to buy the tap, drill and punch from Brownells, don't. However chances of finding the tap for gunscrew threads at the local ACE is slim, but the correct number bit should be available, and ditto a suitable punch, or one you can file/grind to size. For the tap you're looking at someplace like McMaster-Carr. Lots of gunscrews are finer pitched then common fine threads like 8-32 etc. Maybe 8-36 or 8-40.

..............Buckshot

That's the way I did my WGRS. The proper tap for Williams base screws is 8-40 (tap drill #29). For the price Brownell's wants for the tools to your door via their low weight shipping, it doesn't make sense to start the car for a search.

[watkibe]

I just mounted a WGRS on my 1894. I mounted the base backwards and then turned the slide around so the aperture points the right way. It looks about like Imashooter's picture above, not overhanging the rear of the receiver so you need a hammer extension. It has the added advantage of not needing to drill and tap the receiver ! It fits right in the same 2 scope mount holes. For the Williams 5D peep sight on my 1895, I took out the aperture and just use the holder as a ghost ring sight. (The guy I talked to on the phone at Williams says that's what he did on his own rifle !) I may keep the aperture on the 1894, may try the biggest twilight aperture, might even try the Firesight Ghost Ring aperture. But I don't really need to, the holder works pretty good the way it is.
BTW, I bought the Firesight set. I love the front sight, I can really see it with my old eyes. It came with 2 front sights (narrow and wide but with the same dovetail), so I just put the extra on the 1895. I was going to buy a separate front sight for it, but didn't have to !

[pietro]

http://www.skinnersights.com/images/1894picture.jpg

Enter, the S-K-I-N-N-E-R, available in the blued steel pictured, or a brass body.

.

[Tim357]

Have you looked at XS sights? Ghost ring rear with matched front hi vis ramp?
http://www.xssights.com/store/rifle.html

Might be just what ya need.
Good hunting,
Tim sends

[MNruss]

If you don't mind drilling, but don't want to d&t your 1894,
here's what I did ::idea:
Williams makes a Foolproof FP-39TM for model 39's that are similarly not tapped for side mount rec. sights. (another $0.50 saved)
This attaches with only 1 screw (rather far forward) & is kept from twisting or spinning by overhanging down the side of the (very slim) rec. 1/8 inch or so.
I filed off the downward hanging part & drilled another hole behind the existing one in the portion of the sight that rests on top of the rec.
This puts the sight w/in 3/8 inch of the "right" location, comparing to a 1980's 1894CL.
A photo would show all this much easier than describing, but I don't have one.:-(
Regards
Russ

[imashooter2]

MNruss that sounds like a great solution. You just have to get us a picture.

[20nickels]

Pietro, I'll be getting the Skinner myself plus all the aperatures.

www.skinnersights.com

[Three44s]

Got a couple of friends with Skinner sights and they SWEAR by them!

I have a Williams on a 1894 Marlin and it sure works. Put the Lyman Globe (17) on the front and have interchangeability now.

VIVA appeture sights!

Three 44s

[excess650]

My 1894s, 336s, and 1895 were all D&T for side mounted receiver sights, so either have Redfields, Lyman 66, or Williams Foolproof. I prefer an aperture rear sight for clarity of the front sight and target, and does so without the bulk of a scope.

Montana Vintage Arms makes a reproduction of the Remington Rollingblock Sporting sight that could be adapted to the top of the receiver. This is the V notch with flip up aperture.
http://www.montanavintagearms.com/rough_ready.html I'm considering this for a boxlock percussion rifle that I'm building.

I look for odd sights when at gunshows. In my box of spares is a "Krag Sight" and another from a Martini Cadet(?) amongst the Lyman and Redfield receiver sights. One of my Reminngton 14s wears a "Kings pushbutton" tang sight, and I have another made by Belding and Mull.

[RGS]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/R_G_S/Photo16.jpg

This is my .41 LTD. I went with a scout scope setup with Wild West Guns ghost ring rear sight.

http://www.wildwestguns.com/accessories.html

If I were you I'd shoot the gun first and see how really lousy those factory sights are. You'll notice the rear sight is not adjustable. Mine shot a good 15 inches high at 50yds. They are for looks only.

I saw where one of these sold recently on GB. Is yours the one?

This is a collector grade gun you can shoot. Still I'd think long and hard before I drilled holes for some sight that won't fit. These rifles go for over $1200 on the auctions which is over twice what they sold for when they came out. It may look like I hung a lot of stuff on my rifle, but it all comes off with no extra holes drilled, and I saved the *** original sights should I ever wish to sell.

Rick

[.45Cole]

I have a marlin 1894 cowboy and put a smith long range full buckhorn flip-up ladder sight on it. I like the full buckhorn b/c it works like a peep sight to about 50 yds for shooting rabbits, has a notch in the bottom for accurate shooting and then flips up for shooting to long ranges. I lob (literally) 230grns out to about 500yds with varying degrees of success on the sagebush in the notch, but it's fun.

[danyboy]

Took out the old Marlin 1894 (made in 1903) out of the gun locker. My eyesight isn't the way it was and I started looking at the options offered by various companies and it boils down do one thing: no choice at all but to tap new holes for either a peep sight, tang sight or scope mount and I'm not too keen on. Anybody ever find an alternative to original Marlin sights on older models without destroying the value of this old rifle ?
Danyboy

[tomf52]

Imashooter2 - No need to drill and tap that third hole to put the Williams WGRS on a '94. Just dissassemble the two halves of the sight and flip the base 180 degrees. Fits fine. Just a hair of overhang. Reinstall with aperture half facing the rear as intended. Adjusts with the incline on the forward side and the aperature facing the rear as it's suppossed to. Skinner sights have no windage adjustment and the most awkward elevation adjustment I've seen on a sight. You're left to banging the front sight around for windage.

[imashooter2]

I admit that I didn't think to turn the windage slide around when I tried locating the sight on the rifle backwards. That sounds like it could be a solution for those dead set against modifying their rifle.

As for me, I didn't like the look of the elevation ramp facing forward and I wasn't overly concerned about D&T to mount the sight right.

[danyboy]

Don't know what you're talking about. Rear sight doesn't have 2 halves but only one part. My Marlin dats back 1903. Ilooked for this Williams WGRS you mentioned on their website and they talk about a model for the Marlin 336 which is a newer model but not the 1894 (old model).
Meanwhile, I realized on the left side of the receiver there was 3 tapped holes filled with tiny screws which are only there to fill the gap (you see 2 of them well on the picture, the 3rd one is to the left of these couple of screws. There must have been some kind of side mount for a scope or a peep sight. I'll keep looking around, will probably find a solution one day.

[imashooter2]

Don't know what you're talking about. Rear sight doesn't have 2 halves but only one part. My Marlin dats back 1903. Ilooked for this Williams WGRS you mentioned on their website and they talk about a model for the Marlin 336 which is a newer model but not the 1894 (old model).
Meanwhile, I realized on the left side of the receiver there was 3 tapped holes filled with tiny screws which are only there to fill the gap (you see 2 of them well on the picture, the 3rd one is to the left of these couple of screws. There must have been some kind of side mount for a scope or a peep sight. I'll keep looking around, will probably find a solution one day.

Sorry, we weren't addressing your problem, we were discussing my older posts regards mounting the WGRS on the rear scope mount holes of later rifles.

For your rifle it appears that the Williams FP-94/36 or the Williams 5D-94/36 or the Lyman 66LA will work.

[danyboy]

All wright, I'll look into these sights.
Thank you

[danyboy]

Bought a Williams FP94/36 peep sight and tried it out and it works fine. Should have tried peep sights a long time ago.
Next project: change front hunting sight for one of those round aperture sights.
Thanks for the advice.

[peerlesscowboy]

But just like the WGRS, they are made for the 336 and hang off the back of an 1894 action. Not busting on your choice, just general information. I agree about Marlin's poor choice to discontinue drilling the side of the receiver. It really limits your sight options.
My Marlin 336CB is drilled & tapped on the side as well as the top. Problem with the side on late production rifles is that in polishing the sides they've not left a perfectly flat surface to mount the sight to. The top surface OTOH is flat and true as it's also what you'd mount a scope to. I first tried a side mounted Williams Foolproof and it didn't fit very well for the above reason, so I mounted one of the new top mount Foolproofs and I like it.

John C. Saubak

[Ernest]

this might work for you
http://www.xssights.com/store/rifle.html