Your Experience with .45acp in Moon Clips [Archive]

Intel6

08-07-2015, 02:25 PM

Been shooting Moon clipped guns since the 80's when I got my first 625. One of my initial recommendations is to get a batch of brass for it and make it for the revolver only. Autos put dings and stuff on brass that can cause the rounds to drag when fired through a revolver so if you start with some good brass and keep them separate then it does away with that problem.

I had a coffee can of once fired WW cases back then and I made it my revolver brass. If it is a specific headstamp then it is easy to sort out for the revo only. I still use that batch of WW brass for the .45 ACP revolvers. The other thing about loading ammo specifically for the revolver is you can put a roll crimp on it if the bullet permits it. Get a Redding .45 Auto Rim Profile Crimp and it will put a nice revolver style roll crimp, .45 ACP reloading dies are for autos that need a taper crimp.

Neal in AZ

Larry Gibson

08-07-2015, 02:39 PM

Jut have a M-1917, close, but slightly different. nice thing about revolvers in .45 ACP is you can use any bullet, and not have to worry about feeding. Full moon clips are nice, but I prefer the three round clips.

I also prefer the 3 round half moon clips for casual shooting. It's much easier to keep the revolver loaded when not shooting the cylinderful, especially on a walk about the desert or woods. I close the cylinder so the 1st shot fired is the 1st round on a half moon. Then if I shoot 1 or 2 rounds I can easily replace that half moon with a full one. Of course if I shoot 3 shots then the entire half moon is replaced. The half moons are easier to reload w/o a tool when walking about also. I often carry the loaded half moons and single rounds in one pouch of a claymore bag. The empty half moons and/or empty brass goes in the other side. I have spent numerous very enjoyable walks with M1917 and M25 revolvers or lastly with my M1917/25.

Larry Gibson

146136

Nueces

08-07-2015, 02:47 PM

Larry's flexible loading techniques can be used with these two round clips from Ranch Products:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/126763/ranch-1-3-moon-clip-45-acp-2-round-blue-package-of-25?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Pairs of rounds will fit in plastic ammo boxes.

I tried some of the plastic full moon clips and found nothing but frustration. They hold the brass too firmly for quick loading. Even ejecting is balky. I say go with the steel clips, 2, 3 or 6 round. I've used them since the early 70s.

376Steyr

08-07-2015, 02:59 PM

In my experience, when using identical loads, AR cases can be much more accurate. I think this is because the rimmed cases headspace and align better than the clipped ACP brass. My favorite load in my M25 (with .455" throats) is AR brass, 5.8 of W231, and a rock-hard commercial cast H&G 68. It shouldn't work, but it does.

Scharfschuetze

08-07-2015, 03:34 PM

I guess I'm the odd man out as I prefer the six round full moon clips, but I'm certainly not adverse to using the half moon clips either. I've never tried the 2 round clips.

Larry certainly has a point on loading in the field, but I have enough clips to carry on without reloading the clips for some time for my Model 1917s (Colt and S&W). One of my comrades on the PD used a 625 S&W back in the early 80s and by using the full moon clips he could load much faster on the qualification courses than the rest of us using various speed loaders in 41 and 357 calibre revolvers.

I do use a clip loader for the metal half moon and the full moon clips that eases the process quite a bit. Lately I've been using a plastic/nylon full moon clip that is very easy to load without any special tool. I don't seem to have the problems that Nueces has. They are made in slightly different sizes so perhaps he has the wrong size for his revolver.

jeepyj

08-07-2015, 03:57 PM

I have some once fired AR brass although I'm really not looking to get rid of it I may be enticed to trade for some of those moon clips. PM me if your interested.
Jeepyj

Uncle R.

08-07-2015, 04:31 PM

I have a 1955 Target that I love dearly. I often used it with full moon clips as a bowling pin revolver in the 80s.

In those days it was common for pin shooters to countersink the chamber edges on their ACP revolvers for faster reloads. Unwilling to cut on my lovely and very accurate old Smith I devised a load using the 454190 bullet with a full, hard roll crimp into the upper grease groove. That crimp would bury the case mouth behind the ogive of the bullet so there was no chance of cases hanging up on chamber edges. Everything presented to the chambers was rounded and tapered and the loaded moon clip would slide home in a flash. Of course such ammo will not headspace properly without clips and can't be fired without clips in an emergency as normal ACP ammo can.

My 1955 Target shoots very well with AR cases but accuracy (while fine for pin shooting) may be not quite as good with moon clips. Worse, double action shooting will give occasional misfires on moon-clipped ammo if I use the harder brands of primers. Federal primers are 100% even with the clips and I use them exclusively for my roll-crimped "clip" loads.

Hope this helps.

Uncle R.

Artful

08-07-2015, 04:35 PM

I have half and full moon clips - for competition I used the full moon - found some white plastic water pipe they fit into just dandy and found some nylon pouches that would hold one clip on top of the other so two pouches and 4 clips just stick your finger into the center hole and they come right out. I tried the plastic full moon when they first came out but disliked 'em - YMMV. And yes the 1911's etc ding up the brass but I never really had an issue with interchanging them - I found the 230grn truncated cones feed well in either my 1911's or my S&W so I pretty much only use those now for everything.

You can use a tool like shown or just go to home depot and get a small chunk of copper pipe that's as long as 7 empty cases will just fit over the 45 brass - cut a step on one end so that it will fit over the end of the moon clip and put a handle on the other end, hold the used moon clip in one hand with the case mouths down slip the tube up and twist to pop off the clip and the brass falls into the tube - repeat 5 more times and the moon clip is empty and the cases are in the tube then just empty the tube into whatever receptacle you want.

Uncle R - you might check your tension screw on the grip of your smith - people back that off to get a lighter trigger but it weakens the hammer blow to the primer.

Uncle R.

08-07-2015, 05:25 PM

snip
Uncle R - you might check your tension screw on the grip of your smith - people back that off to get a lighter trigger but it weakens the hammer blow to the primer.

Thanks Artful, I have checked it and it's tight. I wouldn't be surprised if that screw's been shortened or maybe even the main spring ground or thinned somewhere in the past. I can't see any evidence of either but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been done.

If it HAS had any trigger work done it was done very well. The trigger pull (SA or DA) is exquisite, but it has never slipped the notch on me and will resist a moderately firm thumb push on the cocked hammer. I don't want to try pushing harder - don't want to shear those edges for no reason.

The revolver suffers from a bit of end shake and that may well be contributing to the ignition issues. The Cylinder and Slide rep at a Second Chance match long ago offered to shim the cylinder for me but I hesitate to make any changes, as the gun shoots SO well as it is. I'm talking ragged hole at 25 yards accurate. It's just amazing, and is surely one of my most accurate handguns - if not THE most accurate handgun I own.

The misfire issue is not a big deal anyway, it happens very rarely and never with Federal 150 primers. I'm sure it's because the moon clips don't support the case as solidly in the chamber as a "normal" cartridges and the tiny bit of "spring" that I get from any slight malformation of the clip or the case rim cushions the hammer blow just enough to cause misfires.

I don't shoot it often these days, although on the rare ocassions that I get to shoot pins I'm likely to take the old girl to the dance. If I'm shooting bullseye with a revolver I prefer my K-38 and for any kind of "action" revolver shooting I prefer my 4" K-frames. I still shoot .22s now and then, my best 1911 gets a lot of exercise, my carry guns get shot regularly for serious and dutiful practice, but the big .45 gets ignored in the back of the safe.
Sigh.

Even if I don't take her out much I'll never let the old girl go. That 1955 Target is one of the good ones and those are the kind you keep for life.

Uncle R.

baogongmeo

08-07-2015, 05:42 PM

I have a Model 28 Smith that's been converted to 45ACP/AR. I got tired of clipping and unclipping the rounds so for the last several years I've been loading the chambers singly and using a wooden dowel to eject the empty ACPs. It's quicker and easier than using the moon clips.

35remington

08-07-2015, 06:30 PM

If there is slack in the system, like on an upward angling shot or when a dirty cylinder doesn't let the round seat solidly due to quickly inserting rounds without firmly pressing the clip home the moon clipped revolver is somewhat more prone to misfires than a conventional revolver.

This is due to the fact that the round drags the adjacent rounds forward in unison and this cushions the blow of the firing pin. If the rounds in the cylinder HAVE to fire, such as firing upward in a SD situation (you can be knocked to the ground) the rounds in the cylinder should be rimmed ones, not rimless ones clipped together.

Adding a loose piece of metal to the headspacing equation does not improve a revolver's ignition reliability.

Nueces

08-07-2015, 06:54 PM

Scharf, thanks for pointing out that there are two sizes of the Rimz clips for S&W ACP wheelers. I don't recall any details about mine, but they were too stiff to function in both early and late guns: a 1950 Target M-26 and a M-625-6 Mountain Gun. If mine were late production Rimz, you'd expect them to function in one of these anyway. Will try again if I find some lyin' in the road.

Scharfschuetze

08-07-2015, 07:53 PM

Nueces,

Yes, I was a bit confused on the issue so I called him on the phone and he squared me away with the proper size. It's been a few years now so I don't remember the size. I just checked my ammo box and I threw away the labeled package with the details so that's no help either. Sorry.

Nueces

08-07-2015, 08:15 PM

Scharf, I was going from your middle photo, which is pretty clear about sizes.

crawfobj

08-07-2015, 09:24 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I had a 625 mountain gun follow me home this week after a long search, and had to order some moon clips. I went with steel for now, but will probably also get some plastic ones and some AR brass at some point. I love 45acp, and I'm guessing this will quickly become my favorite revolver.

Grapeshot

08-08-2015, 08:33 AM

I used to have three S&W 1917's and a Colt 1917 and used both half moon and full moon clips to shoot .45 ACP Ammo out of them. Started out doing the same with my S&W 625 Model of 1989 until I found some .45 Auto-Rim cases and ditched the clips. The clips were great for fast reloads, but were a PIA to remove spent cases from them. Now I use a HKS Speed Loader or two and the .45 AR cases and haven't looked back.

Bigslug

08-08-2015, 12:18 PM

I have three revolvers that use mooners - a 1917 Smith, a .45ACP-converted Webley, and a Pro-Series Smith .357 that can use mooners or not at the pilot's discretion.

My advice: unless you need the fastest possible reload for competition purposes (which is known as a 1911, BTW), buy a batch of Auto Rim cases and retire the clips. Such is my ultimate plan. The clips and the tools that go with them are a pain.

Der Gebirgsjager

08-08-2015, 03:13 PM

146193146194146195146192Here's a handy-dandy tool for de-mooning that I got from Brownell's. Some things are so simple, and a guy could do this in his shop with a piece of tubing of the appropriate diameter, a hacksaw and a file. You could get imaginative for the handle, and could even get by if you drilled a cross hole at the handle end and slipped in a small rod to make a "T" handle. The business end is cut down approx. .1" for about 2/3 of it's circumference leaving a curved projection, and the inside of the tube measures about .625". You just put it over the cartridge or case that you want to take out and twist. Almost effortless.

35remington

08-08-2015, 04:02 PM

No need for a handle as it does not require that much torque to remove the case. My homemade one doesn't have one and I would consider it a detriment if it did.

runfiverun

08-08-2015, 05:18 PM

I use both AR brass and moon-clips.
I bought the steel ones from Dillon waay back when, and have no idea who made them.
they hold onto the brass though, as the next purchase was a de-mooner to get them little buggers back out.
the brass I bought is from top brass and I have never had an issue with any of it but I bought 500 pieces and haven't shot through all of it that many times yet.

I use the 625 with 4" barrel as the 'house gun', and as a side arm on the 4 wheeler [loaded with the AR brass]
it's loaded with the 6 round moon clips for the ease of dump out-dump in reloading.

9.3X62AL

08-08-2015, 05:29 PM

What BigSlug and Grapeshot said. I'm firmly in the camp of Auto Rim brass and HKS speedloaders for 45 ACP revolvers. I've used 2-round, 3-round, and 6-round clips.....all are a PITA. The real resolution was to get rid of the S&W 25-2 with its .456" throats and .451" grooves.......sell the AR brass......and get revolvers in 45 Colt and be done with the nonsense. The whole clip thing was a wartime emergency stop-gap, and we are still messing with it a century later. My 45 ACP loads get used in my beloved bottom-feeders so chambered.

StrawHat

08-09-2015, 07:29 AM

To all of the posters who are divesting of moonclips, keep me in mind. I have an appreciation for them and always look for more.

To the OP, I have been using moon clips (1/3, 1/2 and full) since the early 80s when I got my first M25-2. I have not had some of the misadventures that posters have mentioned. Full moons were good for competition. 1/3 and 1/2 were good for keeping the cylinder full. Full moons also went with me on duty when I carried my converted M28-2, and they would get the nod again if I were to be back to wearing a badge.

35remington If there is slack in the system, like on an upward angling shot or when a dirty cylinder doesn't let the round seat solidly due to quickly inserting rounds without firmly pressing the clip home the moon clipped revolver is somewhat more prone to misfires than a conventional revolver.

I found it interesting that full moons gave you this problem. Interesting enough that I grabbed my 22-4 and tried to duplicate it. In the limited test, 5 full moons, I did not experience it. However, that was only 30 rounds and one revolver. I will test more revolves and more rounds at some point to see if I get that problem in my guns. Thank you for pointing it out. I would rather know of this before I discovered it for myself.

Kevin

Dale53

08-10-2015, 12:17 AM

A few years ago I went to the local Bass Pro Shop with a friend. While he was finishing a transaction, I noticed that they had a 625-8 Jerry Miculek Special at a VERY good price. After one careful examination, I learned that I also got another $100.00 off if I signed up for a new credit card. The revolver went home with me. It is now my favorite revolver. It has a 4" barrel and I later added a 625-6 Model of 1989 with a 5" barrel.

I have thousands of .45 ACP cases, so I added a hundred Ranch Products Steel full moon clips. I tried a couple of different mooning and de-mooning tools and ended up with a Brownell's screwdriver type to demoon (much less danger of bending a clip) as pictured in post #20. I remoon with the moonclip tool;

http://mooncliptool.com/

The mooncliptool will do both but I prefer the Brownell's tool for demooning. If price is not a problem, then the BMT tool is the fastest and best:

http://bmtequipped.com/products.php

Another good option is to use RIMZ clips - a hydrocarbon/polymer clip that requires NO tools. If you get the latest model (Model #25) it is very reliable. I have used both the early and later models without issue. The latest is more secure if the loaded clip is dropped.

Finally, Starline .45 Auto Rim cases work extremely well and do not need moon clips. I mostly use those for range use simply because they are so simple to handle (just like any other rimmed case in a revolver).

FWIW
Dale53

M-Tecs

08-10-2015, 12:30 AM

If you go direct to Ranch Products 100 full moon clips are $35.00. http://www.ranchproducts.com/

clum553946

08-10-2015, 04:54 AM

I use 45 autorim brass in my Smith 25-2. After initially trying out full moon clips, I found that after shooting a few clips, the powder residue caused the clips to become difficult to load and eject.

JSH

08-10-2015, 06:58 AM

Bob, I doubt there is anything special over and above anything you already know about loading for revolvers. If he had offered that up at any other time than he did I would have been all
over it. I had been holding back for a new SA for a couple of months.
I look forward to your findings and would also like to know what chuck had done to it.
The performance center guns are nice, but if it had thread choke and a crappy trigger I can't see the premium price they ask for these.
I think I have an extra silver weaver base if you need one. I would like to run a few round through it if you bring it next Wednesday.
Jeff

imashooter2

08-10-2015, 07:09 AM

azrednek

08-10-2015, 07:32 AM

The other thing about loading ammo specifically for the revolver is you can put a roll crimp on it if the bullet permits it. Get a Redding .45 Auto Rim Profile Crimp and it will put a nice revolver style roll crimp, .45 ACP reloading dies are for autos that need a taper crimp. Neal in AZ

The moon clips in a revolver leave you the option of using nearly any type bullet. These are one of my favorites, The SAECO 225gr button nosed wadcutter. Leaves nice clean round holes in paper you can see clearly from a good distance without glass. It also follows the hard sights real well on 1917's.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/wad-1a.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/wad-1a.jpg.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/wad-2a.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/wad-2a.jpg.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/wad-2.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/wad-2.gif.html)

I'm with Neal on the Redding Profile Crimp. Does an excellent job of putting on a neat but firm roll crimp on both ACP and Auto Rim brass

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/crimp-1.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/crimp-1.gif.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/crimp-2.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/crimp-2.gif.html)

De-mooner for cheapskates like me. Probably cost a dime. Beat it around an old tire iron then put it to the grinding wheel.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/moon-2.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/moon-2.gif.html)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/moon-5.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/moon-5.gif.html)

MtGun44

08-11-2015, 01:38 AM

The original half moon clips bend pretty easily, so I have stopped using them. Full moon clips are a lot
more robust, BUT they must be FLAT. If they are twisted a touch, they can cause the rounds to be pushed
rearward to the limit and then be flattened forward under the firing pin blow and cause light strikes.

Just look at each clip and see if it is FLAT after each unloading. If flat, it is OK, if bent, you can try to
straighten it, but you can toss them, too.

Bill

flint45

08-12-2015, 02:52 PM

Mostly shoot .45 AR over moons just because its easier I like full moons always keep four loaded with black talons in my truck.

Dale53

08-12-2015, 09:25 PM

One thing new users of full moon clips may find useful. The bullet design is critical for quick reloads (defense or competition). I can recommend the Lee cast truncated cone 230 gr bullet. I prefer the one with a normal grease groove. They have a rather large, flat, meplat and much better terminal effect. They load slick as grease.

FWIW
Dale53

azrednek

08-12-2015, 10:10 PM

The original half moon clips bend pretty easily, so I have stopped using them. Full moon clips are a lot
more robust,

Bill

I'd prefer the half moons if I could afford to use them as designed, as a throw-away. Being the cheapskate I am. My bank account prefers a clip along with the brass attached to it that can be re-used numerous times.

From what I recall reading in an older Frank Barnes' Cartridges of the World. The Army bureaucrats opted for the half moon to save ammo. Assuming a soldier fired 2 or 3 rounds in combat. He'd be quick to top it off ASAP, tossing away live ammo rather than going through the trouble of de-mooning. The original Army spec's did not require the cylinder to accept the ACP cartridge without moons. Smith and Wesson staying a step ahead of Colt built their cylinders with the interior ridge for the ACP cartridge to headspace on without the moon clips. Colt was quick to follow but many were manufactured and shipped overseas incapable of firing without the moon clips.

imashooter2

08-12-2015, 11:37 PM

Sekatoa

08-13-2015, 02:28 AM

You can also use .45 GAP brass (or ammo), supposedly for a faster reloads in moon clips. The shorter cases are supposed to slip in quicker($). I had a Glock38 once, and thought I sold all my brass as well, but a bag still turned up. However, I have to try it in my 1955 Target. So much else I want to try when time permits.

I have the Saeco 228 button nose wadcutter as well, and really like the rounds them produce...and holes they make.

I like the three round clips, easier to reload a partial cylinder, easer to carry in a pocket or pouch. I like the two round as well but don't have many. The full are fine for target shooting when you plan on shooting the full cylinder.

I also have AR brass, a box of new Remington, and about the same in once fired I traded some other brass for. For just shooting fun or dedicated revolver, I think I like the AR over moon clipped, but for defensive ammo, I like the interchangeability with my semi auto .45s....except for the Buffalo Bore Manstopper!

Slightly of the topic, I have a Webley supposedly shaved for ACP with moon clips. But the colder wouldn't close on them, too thick. So I thought the job was botched. I found it worked with .46 schofield, and then .45 colt...but only full wadcutters as the cylinder is too short for anything else. The saeco 225 gr wadcutter mold works great on this revolver too, but I'm careful too use mild loads, using trailboss usually. It shouldn't have been such a mystery, the barrel is stamped ".45 C", even those it was sold to my as chambered in .45 ACP.

Frank46

08-13-2015, 11:43 PM

I use RIMZ moon clips with my 1937 contract 1917 revolver. You have to file away the little nubs in the center hole so that they work. Just takes a minute or so to do one, they may not last as long as the spring steel ones but you just stick the round in and remove the empty by hand. Works great so far. Frank

375supermag

08-14-2015, 05:35 PM

I have a S&W M1917 in .45ACP.
When I first acquired it I bought a bunch of half-moon and full-moon clips to use .45ACP brass in it.

That lasted about two range sessions...I bought a few hundred .45AutoRim cases and never looked back. The clips remain in my range bag should I ever decide to shoot .45ACP ammunition in my revolver again, but I haven't used them in at least 20 years.

Shooter6br

08-14-2015, 05:59 PM

I love my Smith 25-2. If you have a 1911 you need a 45 ACP revolver. I load some both pistols can shoot the same ammo. I use Rimz moon clips and steel Moon clips. I made a de -mooner from a piece of 1/2 in copper pipe.

Shooter6br

08-14-2015, 06:09 PM

Some people agree on the 45 ACP

azrednek

08-14-2015, 06:14 PM

I love my Smith 25-2. If you have a 1911 you need a 45 ACP revolver. I load some both pistols can shoot the same ammo. I use Rims moon clips and steel Moon clips. I made a de mooner from a piece of 1/2 in copper pipe.

Even better, two or three of each!! In my wildest dreams maybe.

I usually use the moon clips or Auto Rim brass but if I run short it is not hard at all removing ACP from my 1917's cylinder using my thumb and index fingernails. A PIA but faster and simpler than mooning and de-mooning while at the range.

imashooter2

08-14-2015, 10:11 PM

Even better, two or three of each!! In my wildest dreams maybe.

I usually use the moon clips or Auto Rim brass but if I run short it is not hard at all removing ACP from my 1917's cylinder using my thumb and index fingernails. A PIA but faster and simpler than mooning and de-mooning while at the range.

At 35 cents apiece, there's no reason to be loading or unloading clips at the range...

mwc

08-14-2015, 11:17 PM

I haven't used a 1917, or a 25 that the 1/2 round clips were made for, but they will not work in my 625 JM 45acp. With the rim on the out side causes a problem, as the full moons are connected on the inside so the extractor star will push them out for reloads. I use mine for uspsa, steel challenge , and falling steel matches as well as icore. I have made my own demooner from a golf club handle and it works great, but I also have the BMT mooner which can't be beat for use anywhere, at home or at the range. I have also tried the RIMZs plastic moonclips but was very unhappy with them, they broke when dropped quite offend and if out in the sun and got warm they wouldn't hold on to the ammo and it would fall out.They just got to soft I guess. And as imashooter2 says the steel full moons are really pretty cheap in price at 35-45 cents apiece. But 50 or 100, load them up and go have fun, I love mine.