Help headspacing a wildcat

[webradbury]

I want to build a rifle chambered for a 38spl. necked down to 30cal. My question is, does the headspace tolerances change when a shoulder is added to a straight walled case?

[frnkeore]

The headspace never changes on a rimmed cartridge case. They only headspace on the rim itself, regardless of, if it's a straight case or one with a shoulder.

Frank

[mart]

Interesting build. Ought to be about like one of the English rook rifles for performance. I don't see that the headspace tolerance should be any different. The addition of a shoulder to the case gives you the option to establish headspace on the shoulder rather than the rim. I would certainly aim toward neck sizing or simply kissing the shoulder enough to allow the round to chamber without interference. What action are you wanting to build on. Sounds like a round well suited to a Martini Cadet or other small single shot.

[Ola]

Interesting indeed. Only one question pops in my mind? Why .30? Why not .260? I mean, .38 spl case is so small..

[Larry Gibson]

The "headspace tolerances" for the 38 SPL case are based on the rim. They are what they are. However, your wildcat is creating a shoulder on the case and you may wish to headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim. Then finish ream the chamber so the rim of the cartridge is properly head spaced. Then when forming the cases neck the case down forming the shoulder and set it back so you can feel a slight crush fit when the bolt or breach block is closed on the chambered case. The case is then head spacing on the shoulder to fit the bolt/BB to shoulder dimension. It should fire form with minimal case stretching if any and case life should be very good if minimal sizing is done.


Larry Gibson

[sundog]

Sort of a scaled down .32 Miller Short, eh?

[webradbury]

Lol, I have a spare 30 caliber barrel laying around. It's an old shortened (21") military barrel that didn't cost me anything so if I fowl it up I'm not out much.

the rifle is a Rossi single shot that I'm going to stub the barrel to.

Just something to play with.

Thanks for the info on the headspace.

[cal50]

I always liked the Ackley improved chambers with the 45 degree shoulder.....

[Ola]

When you get it done, it would be interesting to hear how it works out..

[M-Tecs]

You are talking about a 30 Badger or a 30 Reece.

Good infor here

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?256118-30-Badger-30-Reece

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hr-centerfire-rifles/30-badger/

I am thinking of doing the same but with .357 so I can use 300 Blackout dies and reamers.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/hr-centerfire-rifles/300-blackout-rimmed/

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156786-30-357-or-300-rimmed-BLK

http://dandtcustomgunworks.websitetoolbox.com/post/rimmed-300-blackout-7486795?trail=15

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/09/interesting-300-aac-blk-357-wildcat/

[webradbury]

I got the idea doing a google search for 30 caliber wildcat cartridges. This fellow in TN posted this online and said he built an H and R rifle with the round. Seems like it would be a fun plinker/rabbit/squirrel round to teach my sons marksmanship. It's also a reason for me to go to my shop and do fun stuff!https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSy2Lc73moG88MfG7YKdYAQVijcvOUzO qBW0naKhMUDl6A-pSZ_ (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRxqFQoTCM3ns8fjkscCFQWnHgod9VYKBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tngunowners.com%2Fforums%2Fto pic%2F89241-30-badger-wildcat%2F&ei=iXHCVY3_EIXOevWtqSg&bvm=bv.99556055,d.dmo&psig=AFQjCNE8mb9ZxHZfhssVWYjsx135UKQUKA&ust=1438892793873723)


I plan to use the Lee 309-120 boolit, but I'm going to turn the mold down to remove the gas check and lighten the bullet a smidge.

[mart]

That ought to be a wonderful little, low recoil round. In today's spotty availability of 22 RF the attraction of a small reloadable round with cast bullets undeniable. I've been watching for an affordable Marlin 1892 32 Colt for that very reason. I have the dies to convert 32 S&W brass to 32 Colt and a big bag of 32 S&W brass but no rifle yet. Keep us posted on this project. Sounds like fun.

[Jack Stanley]

What kind of twist rate would you propose ?

Jack

[webradbury]

I haven't got a clue. I just build and hope for the best!

[Reg]

Made up just such a cartridge back in the mid 70's and have used it ever since. Wonderful little round. Used a Stevens 44 action and a old takeoff 17 Enfield barrel but have also made others using a 94 Marlin and also on a Chicopie action with a Green Mountain barrel. All seem to shoot to minute of prairie dog to 100 yards.

[webradbury]

I just went out to my shop and necked down a couple 357 mag cases with 7.62 Tokarev dies I ordered the other day. Worked very well!

[Jack Stanley]

That should a bunch of fun right there . What are ya going to call it ?

Jack

[webradbury]

Well the fellow in TN called it the 30 Badger. Also, I found a thread by 357 maximum here, where he is talking about the round. But these were based on 38 spl cases. I also found it referred to as 30 Reese. I think I'm sticking to 357 mag cases. We'll call it the "Squirrel Hammer".

[Hardcast416taylor]

A fellow on this site that went under the avatar as Badgeredd made up quite a few of these little .30 guns. He used any .30 cal. rifle barrel and an H&R single shot break open shotgun was his favorite. He would chop the shotgun barrel about 6-8" in front of the reciever. He would also cut the .30 barrel off in front of the chamber. He would weld/fit the barrels inside each other then work on adapting the extractor/ejector. Since he did so much work on the guns and loads besides correct loading dies, the round got the name "30 Badger". Whether he was first to make this round/gun combo is unknown. I have shot his creations and can vouch as to their `fun gun` hype.Robert

[webradbury]

A fellow on this site that went under the avatar as Badgeredd made up quite a few of these little .30 guns. He used any .30 cal. rifle barrel and an H&R single shot break open shotgun was his favorite. He would chop the shotgun barrel about 6-8" in front of the reciever. He would also cut the .30 barrel off in front of the chamber. He would weld/fit the barrels inside each other then work on adapting the extractor/ejector. Since he did so much work on the guns and loads besides correct loading dies, the round got the name "30 Badger". Whether he was first to make this round/gun combo is unknown. I have shot his creations and can vouch as to their `fun gun` hype.Robert

This is exactly what I'm doing. I am using a Rossi 20 gauge and I'm going to stub the barrel to the 20 gauge chamber. I know I will have to lengthen the ejector some. I'll worry about that when it comes time. Everything else is just lathe work. I'll post it if it turns out ok.

It may be a while due to a Krag Rifle i'm building right now.

[Jack Stanley]

I wonder if the Krag could be adapted to single shot use with the new cartridge . Fun and classy at the same time ..... look out tree rats !

Jack

[webradbury]

I wonder if the Krag could be adapted to single shot use with the new cartridge . Fun and classy at the same time ..... look out tree rats !

Jack

ummmmmmm.........no

[badgeredd]

ummmmmmm.........no

ummmmmmmm yes, as a single shot. It can and has been done.

Edd

[webradbury]

I'm sure it can be done, just not going to do it to mine.

loaded a couple up this morning...146125

[Artful]

Looks good

[velocette]

Looks a lot like the venerable .32/20 WCF. They use a .311/312 bullet instead of a .309/ .310 bullet. Loading should be similar.

[webradbury]

I think they are a lot alike. this one just has a little less case capacity and a smaller bullet like you say. now to make a reamer and chamber the barrel. I'm switching back and forth from the krag project to this project it keeps me motivated.

[badgeredd]

Looks a lot like the venerable .32/20 WCF. They use a .311/312 bullet instead of a .309/ .310 bullet. Loading should be similar.

Using 38 Special brass, one can use 32-20 load data as the capacity of the case is 0.1 grains of water less than the 32-20. Close enough to being exactly the same. So you know......

Edd

[badgeredd]

I'm sure it can be done, just not going to do it to mine.

loaded a couple up this morning...146125

I wasn't suggesting you chop us your Krag by the way. I had a butchered nasty looking 1896 Springfield that is now chambered in 30 Badger. Now I am in the process of making a new stock for it. REASON I BUILT IT????? .....because I can and it seemed like a good use of a neglected action and barrel.

Edd

[webradbury]

I wasn't suggesting you chop us your Krag by the way. I had a butchered nasty looking 1896 Springfield that is now chambered in 30 Badger. Now I am in the process of making a new stock for it. REASON I BUILT IT????? .....because I can and it seemed like a good use of a neglected action and barrel.

Edd

i understand now. I just misunderstood the post. How did you shorten the bolt? Or did you leave it like it was?

[badgeredd]

i understand now. I just misunderstood the post. How did you shorten the bolt? Or did you leave it like it was?

I didn't shorten the bolt. I thought leaving the original length would probably be prudent in the event I wanted to rework the action to another cartridge. Besides, it gives a guy plenty of room to manipulate a cartridge into the chamber. :bigsmyl2:

Edd