A interessting 45 ACP problem

[Johnch]

I made up another 1911 from new and spare parts I had laying in the parts box

I used a used , but IMO OK 45 ACP barrel that I took out of the 1911 that I converted to 40 S&W

The problem is ....the hammer follows the slide everyonce in a while ( dosn't stay cocked )

But not with light bullets , or even max loads with anything I have tryed less than 230 gr

But only with 230 gr bullets
It has not doubled ....yeat
But I looked and there was a slight dent on the primers of the 2 round
This happened 4 or 5 times in 100 rounds of the 230 gr load

And the 230 gr load is almost the low starting load sujested for HP38


I have not striped the pistol down to take another look ( had a migraine when I got home from the range )
But when I put it togeather all the parts looked to be in fine shape

The 100+ rounds of 200 gr cast bullets and box of 185 gr jacketed I shot first had no problems
Also I shot 40 or so of the 200 gr cast load after the 230 gr loads .....not a problem with that load either

Anything I should be looking for ?

I don't feel like beating my head on the wall looking for the problem

But I don't want a problem pistol

Thanks
John

[Catshooter]

As I recall John hammer follow is a hammer/sear engagement problem. The sear being worn/rounded is what I've seen mostly.

Until it was fixed I wouldn't be loading more that two rounds in a mag. A mag dump in a 1911 is an ugly thing.


Cat

[Mk42gunner]

One of the neat things about a 1911 is you can take the grip safety out and actually see how the innards work while trouble shooting. I would pay particular attention to the sear (three fingered) spring, the disconnector, the sear and the hammer hooks.

Robert

[DougGuy]

It will follow if there isn't enough tension on the sear spring which is the left side of the 3 fingered spring looking from the rear.

[22cf45]

I think it is the middle finger of a 3 leaf spring that provides tension to the sear and disconnect.
Phil

[jcren]

Dougguy may be on the right track, while doing trigger jobs, I have had hammer follow if I lighten the sear spring (far left as viewed from rear of gun) too light. Pull it out and bend it toward the gun about 1/16"

[BCgunworks]

Sometimes the actual mass of the trigger is too much. Try an aluminum trigger if your running a steel one.

[floydboy]

I would agree with the above posts to look at the sear spring first. May not be the problem but the best place to start. On the Brownells site there is a great tutorial about how to set up the 1911 for a light trigger. It also goes into detail about how to set the tension on the three legs of the spring. If you don't have something you can use as a trigger pull gauge the instructions will at least give you some idea of what to shoot for.

Floyd

[22cf45]

I was wrong in my earlier post, the center finger is for the disconnect, not the sear. You guys are correct in that the far left finger of the spring is for the sear.

I am a Bullseye shooter and our trigger pulls cannot be less that 3 1/2 lbs with the .45acp. The reasoning is that with the recoil of the .45acp, trigger pulls less than 3 1/2 lbs can result in hammer follow and perhaps untended shots. In CMP competition where we used to shoot only full bore hardball, 4 lbs. was the minimum. With lesser calibers like .22 lr, lighter triggers can and do work just fine.
Phil

[ole 5 hole group]

When doing a trigger job on a 1911 - you can get the trigger down to 2#'s without hammer follow and that will be good for target loads as well as super heavy duty loads. I'm at 2.5#'s with no worries/concerns. I think the main problem for a light trigger is the nut behind the trigger - just like a 2 oz trigger on a rifle, most can safely handle it, some can't.

Now for the problem - Hold the trigger and cycle the slide slowly to see if the hammer will follow the slide. If it does, the disconnect isn't being pushed into the frame far enough to get off the sear. I would check that first.

[Char-Gar]

Not a real mystery here. The trigger pull is to light. This can be a particular problem with a steel trigger. The extra weight of the trigger will cause "trigger bounce" which will allow the hammer to follow the slide. This is why match quality triggers are aluminum. This allows for a smaller sear/hammer engagement without the hammer following the slide.

If you have a steel trigger, replace with with one made from aluminum. If you have an aluminum trigger then you will have to increase the trigger pull.

Addendum: About 22 years ago, I sent a new Colt GM to Clark for a trigger job. When it came back the hammer followed the slide every time. I sent it back to Clark and when it returned the hammer did not follow the slide, but the slide would not lock back after the last rounds was fired. I called Clark, they they said I had a magazine problem. I tried about five other magazines and the problem persisted so it want back to Clark. When it came back Clark said it worked fine, but still would not lock back for me. I bought new magazines and still the problem persisted. I then took a look at the recoil spring and counted the coils. Clark has replaced the factory spring with a lighter spring. I installed a new 16 lbs. spring and that cured the problem. The net result is I stopped sending guns off to well know gunsmiths for work, but learned to do it myself. Much cheaper and often better to do it myself.

[str8wal]

I bought a used 1911 a few years ago that would rat-a-tat-tat once in a while. It wouldn't every time, and would stop when trigger pressure was released. Someone had replaced the trigger and tinkererd on it some, perhaps too much. I was advised to put a little more bend in the sear spring and it never did it again.

[DougGuy]

Here's my favorite way to gauge the sear and disconnector spring tension. First, take a large bobby pin and straighten it out. Heat the end of it cherry red (to make it soft enough to bend and not break) and put a 90° bend 1/8" from the end. Use this as a grabbing tool.

Now, knock the msh pin out and slide it down, take the thumb safety and the grip safety out and let the hammer strut pivot all the way upward and out of the frame. Put the msh back into position and pin it enough to hold it there. Now you have full unencumbered access to the sear spring and disconnector spring. Bring the hammer to full cock.

You can then use the bent end of the grabber tool to slide it underneath the spring sections, which should be at their normally held operating tension, and pull back on the grabber to see how much resistance each section of the spring has. This is how I do my sear spring. I go for a certain resistance and bend the fingers of the spring to adjust this resistance. Then simply put the gun back together and proof it.

I don't like the disco spring tension to be real light, and I don't like the sear spring to be real heavy. You kinda get a feel for it after you mess with them a bit.

[Johnch]

Sorry I have not been on the site for a while ....Replacing my barn after a semi truck used it to stop when his brakes failed

I still have not gotten around to working on the pistol
But I did order a new spring
As I agree it is probely the problem

Thanks
John

[bhn22]

Not a real mystery here. The trigger pull is to light. This can be a particular problem with a steel trigger. The extra weight of the trigger will cause "trigger bounce" which will allow the hammer to follow the slide. This is why match quality triggers are aluminum. This allows for a smaller sear/hammer engagement without the hammer following the slide.


If you have a steel trigger, replace with with one made from aluminum. If you have an aluminum trigger then you will have to increase the trigger pull.

Addendum: About 22 years ago, I sent a new Colt GM to Clark for a trigger job. When it came back the hammer followed the slide every time. I sent it back to Clark and when it returned the hammer did not follow the slide, but the slide would not lock back after the last rounds was fired. I called Clark, they they said I had a magazine problem. I tried about five other magazines and the problem persisted so it want back to Clark. When it came back Clark said it worked fine, but still would not lock back for me. I bought new magazines and still the problem persisted. I then took a look at the recoil spring and counted the coils. Clark has replaced the factory spring with a lighter spring. I installed a new 16 lbs. spring and that cured the problem. The net result is I stopped sending guns off to well know gunsmiths for work, but learned to do it myself. Much cheaper and often better to do it myself.

Amen, Brother Charles.

[andremajic]

Measure the length of your disconnector with a pair of calipers. Most Colt factory fit disconnectors I have measured run 1.280" to 1.290" overall length. Unfinished replacement disconnectors, as built by the various parts manufacturers, can exceed 1.310" in length. If it's less than 1.280" THROW IT AWAY and buy a new one. Don't even put it in the spare parts bin.

The last half of disconnector timing is controlled by the length of the disconnector. When long, a disconnector may drag, but is safe. When short, they are unsafe, cause doubling, and, in some cases, uncontrollable full auto fire.
1. Fit all disconnectors as long as possible, but without any slide rail drag.
2. To operate, it must cam downward enough to safely disconnect, and then move upward enough to reconnect.
3. Final operation is visually checked, slide installed, and with a modified sear spring having only the center finger.

If the spring is weak, it will also cause the same issue.

This information is off of page 78 and page 100 of the troubleshooting section of Jerry Kuhnhausen shop manual for 1911

Andy