Complete Ignition Black Powder Compression Die

[AbitNutz]

I saw this thread about the Complete Ignition Black Powder Compression Die from Buffalo Arms.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?254043-Complete-Ignition-Black-Powder-Die

The info at Buffalo Arms states: For black powder only...which obviously means no smokeless powder. But does it mean no Triple 7? You can buy Triple 7 pellets that have a hole through the center.

[montana_charlie]

I saw this thread about the Complete Ignition Black Powder Compression Die from Buffalo Arms.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?254043-Complete-Ignition-Black-Powder-Die

The info at Buffalo Arms states: For black powder only...which obviously means no smokeless powder. But does it mean no Triple 7? You can buy Triple 7 pellets that have a hole through the center.
When it states black powder only, it means just that.
Triple 7, Pyrodex, and all of the other substitutes, are not "black powder".
They may be pressed into pellets or cylinders by their manufacturers, but they should not be "compressed" by the handloader.

CM

[AbitNutz]

Well that may be true of other black powder subs but T-7 actually says in their loading instructions that it should be compressed firmly. I have squeezed the hell out of it in mt Ruger Old Army with good results. I've just never loaded it in a cartridge.

[montana_charlie]

I don't think that the bullet seating lever on an Old Army can generate anything like the pressure possible with a compression die in a reloading press. Therefore, I view your 'previous experience' as informative, but not applicable to this issue.

However, you really should do as you wish ... at all times.

CM

[cal50]

No idea what the composition of 777 is or its burn characteristic but BP burns on the surface and the more surface you have ignited the faster its consumed providing enough oxygen is present to facilitate combustion. Smokeless is completely different because it burns faster under pressure and contains its own oxygen in its base.

The limited amount I used BP substitutes I never had consistent results and went back to real BP.

[country gent]

Not sure on how diffrent powders will react to this. My question is when formed and compressed with the hole in the charge of black powder, How will it hold up to travel? Road vibrations bumps and such getting to a match? If you buy the die and form the powder is it going to still be there a week later or after ariving to the match. My 2 local maches are roughly an hour drive each way. I have looked at these dies and considered converting one of mine to it. just not sure its going to be there when I get to the match

[kokomokid]

Gullo stated in his catalog that when properly formed the powder charge would hold its shape. He had carried his thousands of miles by air and auto.

[John Boy]

hmmm, neat idea but for $130?
* Take a TOTW compression plug and drill a hole down the center
* Insert Lee decapping pin in hole - adjust for length with soldered washer to hold pin
* Drop new gizmo into a Lee Expander die and the results is the same
Less than 20 bucks!

[lobowolf761]

When it states black powder only, it means just that.
Triple 7, Pyrodex, and all of the other substitutes, are not "black powder".
They may be pressed into pellets or cylinders by their manufacturers, but they should not be "compressed" by the handloader.

CM
That just doesn't seem to make sense to me.when I am loading the cylinder of my Walker Colt with a near max powder charge then press in lube wad then seat the round ball on top that pyrodex RS or Pistol is getting compressed pretty darn.good and I've never had a problem so far. Black Powder is not so readily available around here. I also have to compress the RS in my cases when I'm reloading the centerfire cases for my original m1860 Spencer Carbine in the original 56-56 just to be able to properly seat the heeled bullets. That's using 38-40 grains of powder. The Walker at max will hold right at 60grn in each chamber of the cylinder. That's alot of compressing any way you look at it. Granted I don't shoot the Walker at max very often. Normally just 45grn.

[Lead pot]

When I ran these compression tests and I looked at the results with these captured photo's makes me wonder about the efficiency of compressed loads.

Heavy compression.
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_44b.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/44b.jpg.html)

Light compression.
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_44bastjpg-1.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/44bastjpg-1.jpg.html)

Maybe this is why I get very low ES with my loads.