opinions on IMA martini rifles

[funnyjim014]

I have been considering buying a martini rife for some time. Just a shooter nothing fancy. In my search im starting to learn there are many fakes, reworks, re stampings out there. I figured one of the best places would be IMA. Now comes the hard part, chosing a model. I was thinking of a cleaned complete gahendra. just looking for some honest info on quality and shoot ability. the world of martinis is quite overwhelming and just dont want to get burned

[Japlmg]

If you can, visit the store and pick a Mark II or Mark III yourself.
Expect to get very dirty!
If that is not possible, order a uncleaned (as is) Mark IV.
The Mark IV's were the last of the line, and were placed into storage with little use.
By far they are in the best general condition.
For get the Gahendra, unless you just want a wall hanger; and forget the Francots as they truly are unsafe to shoot.
Gregg

[curator]

I have two MkIIs and a MkIV. All were "select" pick and I have been very happy with their bores and over all quality. I have cleaned and repaired several Gahendras for friends and I would not advise buying one with the goal of shooting it. They are extremely variable in quality and workmanship. I have been shooting my MkIIs and my MkIV and believe the MkIIs have an edge on accurate shooting assuming all are in good shape. My MkII riles are very accurate with .476" 450 grain cast bullets and 85 grains of Fg black powder. My MkIV rifle appears to need larger bullets as this same load is all over the place (some key-holes) at the same distance (50 to 100 yards) I totally agree with Japlmg's observations on the Gahendra and Francotes as well.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Good thread! I will be getting me an uncleaned MkIV in the near future! I think it will be a fun project! The hard part, finding some 24ga Magtech brass, it seems to be a hot item. I would love some Jamison brass but ouch $$$

[funnyjim014]

Well I bought a francote, not as a shooter but as a practice piece to disassemble and clean before I buy one of the long lever mkIV. I found one for under 200 bucks and I can justify that much for wall hanger piece of history. I just hope its not totaly junk and cant even display it lol

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you just want a shooter, a true Belgian Francotte is extremely good. They don't appeal very much to collectors, and Martinis are one firearm in which Belgian quality matches up well to British, and Francotte's in particular. It was Auguste Francotte who invented the small Martini action used in the highly regarded Australian cadet rifles, and his large Martinis have the same easily removable action frame, which must be reckoned an improvement.

The trouble is that the Nepalese "Francottes" are native made. All of them? Certainly most. I have seen little written on their construction, but they may well suffer two deficiencies of the Gahendra. The only Gahendra I have examined closely seems fine as to action strength (for conventional .577/.450 loads) and quality. But the barrels were made from locally produced iron, and while some may be good, there is a history of barrel bursts. They might be provoked by obstructions or by the fact that most Gahendras are bored to suit a .457 bullet (an advantage in fact), but are too tight for the larger bullet of the standard round.

I have quite some admiration for the Gahendra and those who made it. It is a remarkable achievement for a country on much the technological level of Li'l Abner's Dogpatch. It certainly isn't a Martini, and owes something to the American Peabody, but more to the Westley Richards. I can't see a thing that makes it weaker than the military Martini, although the action not being partitioned off with steel at front and rear might make you more vulnerable to shattered wood if a breech explosion did happen.

Even cleaned and selected rifles from the Nepalese hoard are likely to be selected as wall hangers, not for the bore. If I wanted a really good shooting Martini, my preference would be to find a good Belgian one going cheap due to a bad bore, or a smoothbored British one, and line it with a liner tube from www.trackofthewolf.com (http://www.trackofthewolf.com) . Their 7.65mm Luger tube is of the right diameter to make a far better .303 than a worn original.

[funnyjim014]

So I havent even received my rifle in the mail and was poking around midway looking a brass prices....OMG...just out of curiosity has any one made a chamber insert for the old martini? Its a 45 and have a few choices, maybe a cowboy load for 45colt or maybe 45 schofield?

[curator]

funnyjim14:

Check out the britishmilitaria site for more information of martini rifles and cartridges: http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/

[Bulldogger]

A chamber insert would be a cool idea.

Four years ago I bought two Gahendras (Atlantic Cutlery I think, but the shipping source was IMA, pro-tip!) intending to end up with one good one (a relative term) to give to a dear friend leaving to return to Jolly Old England. He'd often regaled us with stories about the Martini and the Zulu War, etc. So I figured fixing up an inexpensive Gahendra that he'd never shoot was a nice parting gift. He was speechless. Now as it happens, the untouched Gahendras I was sent weren't missing much in terms of parts so I fixed them both up. Didn't rebuild them totally, not wanting to ruin the history and patina they carried.

I agree with the observations that the quality of the Nepalese Gahendras is variable, and their condition pretty rough. At first I intended to fire the one I kept, but then I decided she'd survived that long and deserved a place of honor over the mantle. Also brass cost was ridiculous!

Now a chamber insert, that gets my mind thinking. The main reason I never fired mine was bad pitting under the chamber, due to moisture between the stock and metal. A chamber insert would eliminate that worry, and after the sunk cost of making it, one could use readily available brass.

Hmmmm

Bulldogger

[funnyjim014]

Well the ups man delivered my rifle today....its wall hanger. I cleand the boar and can see something halfway down on the bottom side of barrel. Looks like metal delamination. From what I understand shooting the Nepal francotte is not recomended, now I wont be tempted. Ill clean it and hang it up

[376Steyr]

I believe Reid Coffield did a series of articles on restoring an ancient Martini in "Shotgun News" a year or so ago. He found things like an action pin had been replaced with a chunk of wooden dowel. It would be worth tracking down that article.

[funnyjim014]

Got the rust bucket tore down tonight... now to take the parts to work and scrub them down in the parts washer. The but stock looks to be painted black with some god awful stuff. I have some stained my palm and it lasted a full week of me working on cars and washings