Notes on filler for the 1851 Navy

[Texantothecore]

I have been using Cream of Rice but have had a problem controlling the amount of filler in the loads. The top of the ball has not been in the same place in each load after compression. I have also had some shots that were considerably lower than most of the others apparently due to differences in the amount of filler in the load.

Today I moseyed on over to Harbor Freight and picked up their walnut shell fine blasting media. It is 24 screen size, just about the same as 2fg and it measures beautifully in Lee Dippers. I weighed a few scoops of the media and they were identical on every attempt. No perceptible deviation.

How did it work? Higher fps on every shot, I really had to drop the point of aim to get inside the orange.

It was a good experiment and the barrel was much cleaner than usual when I cleaned it. It did not make the mess that Cream of Rice made when loading which is a big plus.

It was a very short but satisfying hour at the range.

[JeffG]

Cool. I always use cream of wheat and measured with a scoop I made. Seems like 20 gr 3F and 14 gr COW. It placed the ball right at the face of the cylinder.

[Texantothecore]

I am going to increase the filler until I can get top of the ball about 1/8" from the mouth of the cylinder and see how that works. It is so much easier to use.

[AtomHeartMother]

Cool. I always use cream of wheat and measured with a scoop I made. Seems like 20 gr 3F and 14 gr COW. It placed the ball right at the face of the cylinder.

Does it do anything for fowling? Curious because I've used it as a filler in smokeless rounds and it'll clean everything right out of the barrel... I mean everything. Wondering if holy black would be different..

[Texantothecore]

It really knocks the fowling back. Just keep shooting.

[Tar Heel]

Have you thought of using felt wads?

[Omnivore]

"Media" is the plural form of "medium", so if you're talking about a single product it is a blasting medium. I know that the manufacturers and shopkeepers, and nearly all journalists, misuse the term "media" but that doesn't mean we should misuse it also. Let them be ignorant on their own.

I have yet to see a body of evidence that says there is a reason to use fillers. No matter the loading practice, groups from these el-cheapo Italian repro guns range from about 2.5 to 5" groups at 25 yards. If someone can show me, through repeatable tests that anyone can duplicate on their own, that using a filler makes the gun more accurate, then we can talk about different kinds of filler and how much to use.

If there is such a body of evidence, then please show it to us first.

Regarding fouling mitigation, the included photos show my Pietta Remington New Model Army's bore after firing more than 100 shots with no cleaning, and the same bore after pushing one dry patch through, one direction, one time. No fillers were used, but a lube cookie under the bullet, over 30 grains of Goex 3F. No wad or filler. Lee 200 grain conicals in this instance. The last six shots (#97 thru 102) went into a group of about 3.5" at 25 yards (see target photo), which is just about the best group I've done with that particular gun.

I'm not saying that's fantastic or wonderful. I'm saying that the lube cookies prevented any accumulation of fouling, and combined with blowing down the bore over the cylinder face after every six shots it kept the cylinder turning freely for over 100 shots, which makes a "successful" load in my way of thinking. When your loads do better than that, then let us know, so we can change our ways by adopting yours.

[bigted]

"Media" is the plural form of "medium", so if you're talking about a single product it is a blasting medium. I know that the manufacturers and shopkeepers, and nearly all journalists, misuse the term "media" but that doesn't mean we should misuse it also. Let them be ignorant on their own.

I have yet to see a body of evidence that says there is a reason to use fillers. No matter the loading practice, groups from these el-cheapo Italian repro guns range from about 2.5 to 5" groups at 25 yards. If someone can show me, through repeatable tests that anyone can duplicate on their own, that using a filler makes the gun more accurate, then we can talk about different kinds of filler and how much to use.

If there is such a body of evidence, then please show it to us first.

Regarding fouling mitigation, the included photos show my Pietta Remington New Model Army's bore after firing more than 100 shots with no cleaning, and the same bore after pushing one dry patch through, one direction, one time. No fillers were used, but a lube cookie under the bullet, over 30 grains of Goex 3F. No wad or filler. Lee 200 grain conicals in this instance. The last six shots (#97 thru 102) went into a group of about 3.5" at 25 yards (see target photo), which is just about the best group I've done with that particular gun.

I'm not saying that's fantastic or wonderful. I'm saying that the lube cookies prevented any accumulation of fouling, and combined with blowing down the bore over the cylinder face after every six shots it kept the cylinder turning freely for over 100 shots, which makes a "successful" load in my way of thinking. When your loads do better than that, then let us know, so we can change our ways by adopting yours.

well that is a nice report and some valuable info ... thanks for it.

I do know from a lifetime of shooting revolvers of all kinds ... that the closer to the very smooth forcing cone will improve accuracy ...sometimes by a bunch as the ball/bullet is going slower when it jumps into the forcing cone. soooo ... maybe the filler thing has merit. be something to try out and I thank all who posted here so far for giving this poor ol brain another thing to contemplate.

I have a Uberti '60' that I slicked up and lapped the bore some as well as experimenting with different loads and arrived at a load [cant put my eyeballs on it rite now ... SRRY] that in a time of desperation for fun and -35 degrees below the -0- mark in the frozen north ... I shot 50 rounds into a tight 2 inch group with 2 flyers. I used Crisco over the balls but other then that I will not speculate on the exact load details ... it were all 2Fg GOEX powder tho and I think I posted it on the other traditional muzzleloader forum.

I do know that lube and fouling control are key to getting performance from these critters ... having said this I do know of a feller that uses NO control of either things and just loads and shoots repeatedly with no loss of workability not accuracy ... I cant repeat his program as my revolvers always clog up doing the "dry" formula he uses. he just loads powder and levers in a ball and shoots ... and keeps on hitting his targets and never seems to have cylinder rotation problems ...

everybody has their own way and arrives at the seemingly same spot ... sure is fun to play round with em tho.

[Texantothecore]

I am using a smaller load than most, 10.3 grns of 2fg with 21.3 grns of 24 screen blasting media. The barrel stays clean with only the last shot of fouling in it for the next shot.

I ran a cylinder of 10.3 grns without the blasting media and it was extremely dirty. Dirty enough that I was concerned that I might stick a ball in the barrel as I have done with 15 grns of bp in my 45-70 with no filler.

The results yesterday gave me a great deal of confidence in the pistol. It was a very good day.

[Tar Heel]

Having tried variations on a theme, I have settled on lubricated over-powder felt wads both for accuracy and simplicity. These wads do seem to reduce fowling and allow for longer shooting sessions. Shown below for your viewing pleasure is a video of my 1851 Navy shooting these loads at 15 yards offhand. I think the group size speaks for itself and the efficacy of the wads.

The wads are homemade and the balls are home cast if that means anything.


https://youtu.be/Au_AUZiZlrk

[snapshot]

Two powder flask one large, one small, large for powder smaller one with smaller spout for your filler.

[Texantothecore]

Snapshot, the two powder flasks is exactly the track I was thinking on. It would be quite convenient and quick to load.

[Southron]

You might want to consider engraving a mark on your rammer. Use this mark to indicate when your ball is fully seated in the chamber, the mark would be level with the face of the cylinder.

This way, you could seat each and every ball at exactly the same depth in your cylinder. Having your lead balls in a cylinder all set at the same depth would probably increase your accuracy.

[Texantothecore]

You might want to consider engraving a mark on your rammer. Use this mark to indicate when your ball is fully seated in the chamber, the mark would be level with the face of the cylinder.

This way, you could seat each and every ball at exactly the same depth in your cylinder. Having your lead balls in a cylinder all set at the same depth would probably increase your accuracy.

An excellent idea. I am going to do just that. Thanks for the tip.

[Texantothecore]

I have a good deal of wool felt and two pounds of mutton tallow that, when I get some time, will be cut into some nice wads. I am also going to use soda can cardboard over the powder. I should have enough room for both.