How Is The Recoil and Accuracy in the 44 Mag vs 45 Colt

[huntersdog]

It seems that there is a lot more 44 Mag revolvers out there than the 45 Colts. I was curious how is the recoil between both of them, and accuracy from 50 to 100 yards from the hunting. Hunting out at 50 to 100 yards would you recommend a cast bullet or a hollow point or a soft pointed bullet?

[contender1]

Well, I own a "few" of each caliber in the SA revolvers. Each one is quite capable of 100 yd shooting with ease. The 45 Colt suffers from it's long history, and the factory ammo being "mild" compared to factory 44 mag ammo.
The next issue some folks have with the 45 Colt SA revolvers are the occasional undersized throats in the chambers. Again, this is traced to ancient history but an easy "fix" if necessary. Many of us have had our cylinders sent off to be throated to a uniform size that improves them.
That said,,, I'm assuming you are considering reloads.
Reloading is where the 45 Colt in a Ruger SA can shine. Many folks prefer the grip frame of the Blackhawk vs. the Super Blackhawk, when shooting due to knuckle knocking during recoil. Many prefer the Bisley grip frame over all others. A lot depends upon YOUR personal preferences.
Recoil will be dependent upon the ammo, the grip frame, and your method of hold. Either caliber can be good or bad TO YOU!

Accuracy is again dependent upon the ammo and the shooter. Both calibers are quite accurate, and OFTEN used for hunting.

For hunting purposes,,, it'd be hard to choose calibers,,, but to ME & in MY HUMBLE opinion, a cast lead slug, SWC in design, properly sized & chosen for proper fit & accuracy moving at around 1100 fps will take most big game in North America.

All that said,,, if factory ammo is your option, go with 44 mag. If you reload,,, you can make either one of them shine. But I tend to prefer my 45 Colts over my 44 mags.

[kungfustyle]

Both are great. I have about a two inch group w/ my Super Black Hawk and the Lyman 429421 boolits over Unique or 4227 at 50 yards and working on 75. Targets get small with a 2x scope however. Boolit is 265g with my alloy. You can load the 45 LC to almost 45 mag (no such thing) levels w/ a Black Hawk due to the stronger frame. Decided to go with the 44 mag because the brass is less expensive and if you want to load to hunting levels out to 50, 75 or 100 yards data is safely available w/ out putting undue pressure on your brass.

[kungfustyle]

by the way there is about a 4" drop or so from my zero at 50 yards out at 100. But the gun will do it easily. Right now I wouldn't attempt to shoot past 75 with out more practice. Recoil is easily managed if you let the gun do its thing....

[DougGuy]

Contender1 pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you are comparing factory hunting loads, they are a LOT different, however if you handload for both, in a Ruger SA revolver, they are pretty much neck and neck with the nod going over to the .45 Colt as it can fling a slightly heavier boolit downrange than the .44 can. But not by much. Not enough to get on the soapbox and preach about.

Any of the Ruger revolvers can be improved with cylinder throat work, as you would want them all as even as possible, then size the boolit .0005" under throat diameter, and due to how Ruger manufactures cylinders, almost none leave the factory even. They can also be helped by cutting an 11° forcing cone, cleaning up the factory cut cone since many have tool marks and roughness in this critical area. These improvements are inexpensive and WELL WORTH investing in, as the Ruger SA revolver is easy and inexpensive to get it to shoot cast boolits really well. Cylinder throat reaming, 11° forcing cone, Wolff reduced power trigger return spring are the only 3 things that are needed to turn a Ruger SA into a very accurate cast boolit gun.

As far as the boolits go, the wide meplat flat nosed designs, heavy in weight, and a little on the soft side, make EXCELLENT hunting boolits in either .44 or .45 caliber, these 300gr and 310gr gas checked boolits pushed by copious amounts of H110/W296, AA#9, 2400, LilGun into the 1150 ~ 1200fps velocities will have either caliber almost equal in accuracy, terminal energy, and recoil.

With boolits like this, hollowpoints are not necessary as the softer alloy will provide some expansion, but more importantly, either will penetrate completely through any game animal on the North American continent. I would say the RF boolits in the right alloy are some of the most dependable and lethal hunting boolits available in either caliber. All you have to do is push them to a near or just over supersonic velocity and direct them to the boiler room of the animal and your hunt will be quite a success.. Deer, elk, bear, moose, hog, no match for the RF boolit.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg.html)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/180gritFinish_zps6hfmcvxh.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/180gritFinish_zps6hfmcvxh.jpg.html)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/44%20Magnum/DSC01739_zps53352b7c.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/44%20Magnum/DSC01739_zps53352b7c.jpg.html)

[RogerDat]

For what it is worth 100 yard hunting with a handgun I would tend to choose a long gun over a pistol. Not because it can't be done with a pistol but because generally the rifle will be more accurate. Also has potential for higher power with better recoil control.

I know some like the challenge of pistol hunting, just saying if you want to increase your odds of a good clean shot then a rifle might be the way to go.

[RobS]

Others have already given good information. If reloading then they are nearly the same in nature but being a .45 cal vs a .43, the 45 will have less pressure with the heavier boolits at same velocities. I shoot cast boolits and less pressure to do the same work is the route I prefer to go.

[TXGunNut]

I prefer the 45 Colt over the 43 Mag mainly because I decided long ago that I'd pick one big bore revolver cartridge and stick with it. All kidding aside there's not a nickel's difference but I like to aggravate the 43 fans and they don't seem to mind dishing it back at me. ;-) A knowledgeable handloader can make the 45 Colt outshine the 43 Mag and do it with old-school class. ;-) I treat the 45 Colt as two different cartridges; one is the BP (and sometimes BP equivalent) round for my Colts and clones and the other is a heavy hunting load for use in my old RBH.
The BP load is fun to shoot (and a real crowd-pleaser!) and the hunting load's 300 gr boolit at about 1200fps should be able to do anything I need it to do.

[JSH]

All good input above. It is practice practice. Serious practice, not just blasting or plinking.
You are here so I pretty sure you will be shooting cast, as mentioned by Doug fit is king.
I have 41,44 and 45s. They all serve a "want" for me. I refuse to get into the argument or discussion of which is better on game or target. That comes down to shooter ability and shot placement.
Now to throw a wrench into things. If I had shot a 41 mag 30 years ago, chances are I would never have owned a 44. I am fairly new to working with the 41 but it has been one of the easier wheel guns for me to work with and get good to excellent results from the get go.
Also being some what new to the 45 colt. I found it pretty good out of the box but it can use some tuning also. FYI Ruger bisley 5.5 with the acp cylinder. After some measurements the acp cylinder shouldn't shoot but it does. Makes one ragged hole with mismatched cull ammo at 25 and 50.
I am still partial to 357 and heavy bullets.
Variety is the spice of life.
Jeff

[Lefty Red]

I like both. I reloaded and casted for both and got great hunting groups at any range.
I choose the 44 magnum because I can buy bullets and brass off the self around here.

If forced to pick again, I MIGHT pick the 45LC in a NMBH convertible, but since I already have a NHBH 44 special FT I don't see the need.

[44man]

With my Vaquero in .45, almost nobody ever finished all 6 shots until I put Pachmeyer grips on it! :bigsmyl2: I was shooting the 335 gr LBT with 21.5 gr of 296.
I have no preference between it and the .44. Both work. I just wish I had a BH with adjustable sights.

[Lloyd Smale]

pretty much identical if you find a gun that has good machining done at the factory. Its just a bit easier to find 44s that have proper tolarances. 45 colt tolarances are all over the place. You can buy two ruger single actions and get one real nice gun and one complete dud. As to which type of bullet this is a cast bullet forum I doubt your going to find many here that prefer jackted.

[Petrol & Powder]

I shot and reloaded for 44 Special, 44 magnum and 45 Colt years ago and never could get the same level of performance out of the 45 Colt as I could out of the 44's BUT I wasn't casting bullets in those days. I left big bore revolvers for many years before returning to the 44 magnum.
I'll openly admit that I have some negative bias towards the 45 Colt from my earlier days. If I had to pick between the 44 & 45 I'd go with the 44. I think the 44 is a bit more versatile and a little easier to tune for accuracy. I don't think the 45 Colt is a bad round and people certainly can make them work but I do think the 44 is a bit easier to work with. Just my $0.02 worth and that might be an overpriced opinion.

[dubber123]

I have found on average the .44 to be easier to get accuracy from, mostly due to the common mis-match of throat to bore diameters common in .45 Colt revolvers. Power wise, even given the thinner chamber walls in otherwise identical guns, for example, my 625 and 629 S&W Mountain guns, the .44 and .45 both max out at the same speed/boolit weight. In a stronger gun, the .45 Colt will stomp all over a .44. It's just a larger cartridge, no two ways about it.

The common comparison of a Ruger single action in .44 or .45 still won't show the true potential of the .45 Colt as the cylinder walls are thinner in the .45 version, but in my personal experience will favor the .45 Colt. Either has ample power and accuracy, pick whichever suits you.

[ole 5 hole group]

I've got both, the 44 Mag and 45 Colt, I have them both in 5-shot cylinders and 6-shot cylinders. I can load the 45 Colt heavier than the 44 Mag and the 45 Colt loaded heavier also provides greater recoil. If you are into self-abuse, you can get plenty of abuse from either one.

Accuracy is the same as previously mentioned by others - it may be a little easier to find a small group load with the 44 Mag, don't know why but it seems to shoot just about anything fairly well, where the 45 Colt sometimes can be a chore.

That is a stout load 44 Man - but is just a little shy of my 325 grain load using VV N110, which zips along at 1,486 fps and is a a nasty one on your wrist and trigger finger with a single-action.

IMO, all thin skinned game will easily fall to 850 to 1,000 fps loads and if you just might be taking a raking shot on large game, then you could go 1,200 fps if you can manage the recoil on a follow up shot, as a follow up shot just might be called for.

As for bullets, cast is excellent as is a premium jacketed - I prefer bonded jacketed if available, such as the Speer Gold Dot or Deep Curl, otherwise the Hornady XTP, either regular or Mag depending upon your velocity will give excellent performance. 100 yard shots? that's a poke for sure but doable for a Marksman - you should be up on your tracking abilities if you're going to shoot a 44 or 45 at game animals at that distance, as my limited experience says the animal will go anywhere from 20 yards to 150 yards before piling up - of course, they sometimes do that when shot at 40 yards with either a handgun or rifle but I just had to throw that little tidbit in there.:smile:

[jonp]

I have always found the 44mag and 357mag for that matter have a sharper more abrupt recoil than the push of a 45colt.

Ive had blackhawks with various barrel lengths in all 3 calibers. I prefer the 45 and with handloads over h110 or 2400 cant think of anything in NA that would walk off that you would use a handgun for

[Misskimo]

460 s&w. Be done with it

[Lefty Red]

If you are going to try to load the 45LC to 454 levels, then yes the 45LC will beat the 44 magnum. But if you are loading the 45LC, in a Ruger or like strong action, to 454 levels then load the 44 mag to 445 Super Mag levels.

Truefully, I don't see a need for anything over 1100 fps in either. And I doubt the animal will tell the differance.

Jerry

[Lonegun1894]

I have and love both, with a bias in favor of the .45 due to the history involved. Both will do what you need to do on any animal in North America, so I would say that the answer is get both, and come back and tell us which one was better in another 10-20 years of hunting. By that time, I figure you will be as hooked on both as I am so will have realized that the question you're asking, possibly without realizing it, isn't which one to get, but rather which one to get first. :)

[Bullfrog]

Read an article in a gun mag some months ago and the author stated that the 45LC got the job done with less chamber pressures than the 44mag. I only own 44's but I have that nagging in my head about lower chamber pressure. I love my 45ACP's so I would imagine that I should look into a 45lc Blackhawk, but I just don't want to start a new caliber to feed LOL

[kenyerian]

Can't go wrong with either one.

[44man]

Pressure means little. The Rugers can live with it. But the .45 needs less because steel is thinner. Some will push 40,000 with them, not smart.
The .45 is not a .44 and never will be but you don't need it with the fine caliber. It is like the 45-70, be around forever with many happy shooters.

[ole 5 hole group]

Pressure means little. The Rugers can live with it. But the .45 needs less because steel is thinner. Some will push 40,000 with them, not smart.
The .45 is not a .44 and never will be but you don't need it with the fine caliber. It is like the 45-70, be around forever with many happy shooters.

Jim - You're talking like an ole fart now, bet in your younger days you pushed well over 40K of pressure in that 45 Colt and stuck a case or two. The SW 29 with hot loads had to go back to SW a time or two for new hands and a touch-up. Not many shooting Silhouette was ever content with the "average" hot load. Not smart? I think it's better referred to as looking for an edge, at the edge!!!

One thing I can say about the FA revolver is - I don't think you'll ever stick a case because you'll break your wrist first.

[Mgderf]

I have a new model Super Blackhawk in .44mag with a 10" barrel. It will EASILY do 100 yards all day long, if you do your part.
I also have a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casull that I often run .45Colt through. I found an ammo manufacturer, albeit small, who is local and will cater to specific wants/needs.
They loaded me some .45Colt with 250gr HP-XTP pills in brand new Star-Line brass. They told me these rounds are close to .44mag performance, and clock in at an average 1000fps.
I had to promise them that I would ONLY run these rounds through a firearm chambered for .454 and NOT a .45Colt chamber.

They do perform well. I would say as well as factory .44mag rounds.
Last year they took a 7-pointer with palmated antlers. The year before that they took 2 doe in very short order.
None of the deer I've hit with them ran more than 20 yards.

[dubber123]

I have a new model Super Blackhawk in .44mag with a 10" barrel. It will EASILY do 100 yards all day long, if you do your part.
I also have a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casull that I often run .45Colt through. I found an ammo manufacturer, albeit small, who is local and will cater to specific wants/needs.
They loaded me some .45Colt with 250gr HP-XTP pills in brand new Star-Line brass. They told me these rounds are close to .44mag performance, and clock in at an average 1000fps.
I had to promise them that I would ONLY run these rounds through a firearm chambered for .454 and NOT a .45Colt chamber.

They do perform well. I would say as well as factory .44mag rounds.
Last year they took a 7-pointer with palmated antlers. The year before that they took 2 doe in very short order.
None of the deer I've hit with them ran more than 20 yards.

If they really are a 250 at 1,000 fps. they are pretty mild as far as hand loaded .45 Colts go. Not that they won't do the job, but they sure aren't hot. I can attest to the fact that 1,300 fps. with a 310 cast is not hard to do at all in a 7.5" .45 Colt Ruger BH. 320's at 1,000+ from a 4" S&W isn't much of a feat either.

It shows a good bit of prudence on our loaders part to keep them on the mild side, not having control over what they will end up in. You real world results prove you don't need that level of loads for many uses.

[44man]

Jim - You're talking like an ole fart now, bet in your younger days you pushed well over 40K of pressure in that 45 Colt and stuck a case or two. The SW 29 with hot loads had to go back to SW a time or two for new hands and a touch-up. Not many shooting Silhouette was ever content with the "average" hot load. Not smart? I think it's better referred to as looking for an edge, at the edge!!!

One thing I can say about the FA revolver is - I don't think you'll ever stick a case because you'll break your wrist first.
NO, never in the .45 or .44. Never a need for more power, only accuracy.
Stuck boolits in the bores of .454's when using starting loads though.
When I wanted power, I bought bigger calibers.

[huntersdog]

Thanks for the information, and tips gentlemen.
I think I'm going to go with the 44mag Ruger Redhwak hunter. It sounds like the brass and ammo are a bit easier to find for the 44 mag. Most shots will be in the brush and most shots will be 25-50 yards, and at times maybe 100 yards on the brush line. Seen Lee has a nice 430-310 RF.
I'll shoot a bit and if it don't cut it I'll take it to a Smith and have him ream the throat, and chamfer it.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Pistol can and will hit at 100 yds and kill, but as mentioned little far for the shooter to do there job. I draw the line at 50 yds. so. I carry the 44 mag as A side arm with the 300 as reach out and touch gun. 44 is easier point then a longgun for pine tickets and steep hillsides. As a side note past 100 yds, say 125 the 44 bullet will drop big time.

[RobS]

Pistol can and will hit at 100 yds and kill, but as mentioned little far for the shooter to do there job. I draw the line at 50 yds. so. I carry the 44 mag as A side arm with the 300 as reach out and touch gun. 44 is easier point then a longgun for pine tickets and steep hillsides. As a side note past 100 yds, say 125 the 44 bullet will drop big time.

Drop..........especially if one is shooting the Lee 432-310-RF. Although it's a good design with that WFN front end to do the work.

[Mike Kerr]

Wow! Fun thread. Either caliber is good, with both 44 and 45 for hunting, dependent on the firearm involved as well as shooter preference. I am invested more in 44's because of reloading setup, budget restraints, and costs involved in going with both calibers at once. Both shoot well for the reloader and individual circumstances dictate your final selection.

[Electric88]

I was just wondering about these same things the other day. I saw a used Ruger Blackhawk with a 7.5" barrel in 45lc go up for sale at my local gun store for $425. I am still really debating going back to pick it up.

[44man]

Drop at 100 is really not bad. Even with my 330 gr when sighted 1" high at 50, drop at 100 is a couple inches. No trouble hitting beer cans with the Ultra Dot by holding near top.
Now at 200 it is something else dropping a good 35". The Lee 310 drops less. The RD 265 drops about 1" at 100. No concern at all for deer. I have killed deer to out to 120 yards. I was on the ground and could use my knees for a brace. I have done that off hand with the .500 JRH when the deer was off to the side and I could not turn to get knees there. Jammed against a tree makes it hard to move.
My longest shot with the .45 Vaquero was 100-110 yards, off hand. I aimed over her back since she was facing away and took her in the neck, instant drop. Funny hunt, just dropped a friend at a stand and the grandson and I was walking back and booted deer from the thick and she stopped to look back over her shoulder. Grandson said "shoot her." I said "I can't shoot through this junk." OK, drew the gun and made it through all the little trees. If he would have looked at me he would have seen the biggest eyes EVER! :bigsmyl2:
Revolvers are amazing.
Don has been with me on many hunts, he uses a .270. He was watching a buck above me when it turned and went over my fence. I spotted it and shot with my SRH, he bolted and ran in front of me, I hit him again but the first shot went through his heart.
I am going to hand him my .44 this coming season and make him leave the rifle home. He has seen me lay out 3X the deer he does. Think I will convince him?

[RobS]

44man, considerable drop was stated past 100 yards actually in my experience past 125 and she really falls off.

[onefunzr2]

In my experience owning, reloading for and shooting both cartridges...some folks believe the 45 Colt is saddled with only being able to digest puny cowboy loads and thus are not suitable for hunting big game. I gave a call to Sierra Bullets and as luck would have it, got conncted to chief ballistician Tommy Todd and asked if my Taurus Raging Bull chambered in 45 Colt was limited to 14K psi loads. He said ANY handgun that is also chambered in the 44 Rem mag can safely fire the 30K psi loads just like Rugers, FA's and T/C's. I load 300gr Hornady XTP/HP's at 1100fps just like in my S&W 629 44 Rem mag. They work just fine on our Pennsylvania whiletail deer.

As far as recoil is concerned...I bought a Hawes Chief Marshall SA revolver in 44 Rem mag and shooting it caused lots of pain even with 44 Special loads. Asking around [this was before the interweb days], I was told a double action style revolver would kick less than the old hog leg grips of a single action revolver. And if that was not enough, mount a scope on it; the extra weight will also cut recoil. So I traded in that Chief Marshall on the Smith 629 with 6" barrel and added a 2-7X Burris scope. No recoil concerns anymore. Also, the Ribber grips on the Raging Bull help immensely along with their factory ported barrel.

I don't find components for either cartridge especially hard to find.

[44man]

44man, considerable drop was stated past 100 yards actually in my experience past 125 and she really falls off.
Yes, true but the loss of energy much past 100 is a concern too. Long ranges means more CNS hits that is harder to do.
Even though I have shot 3/4" groups at 100 off hand, my norm is 6". I shake more with my age, going on 78 years.
There is much said about "PLACEMENT" but to hit the spine at 100 with a revolver is a pipe dream and an accident.
I demand accuracy above all else but can't do the CNS hits without luck so boolit performance is next. I could hit deer at 200 from Creedmore or a rest but energy is gone. You will lose deer. Deer at 100 look very small so those that have a limit of 50 are very smart. I only extend the range because of accuracy.
"PLACEMENT" bothers me, you need a rifle from a BR. You need less then a 1/2 minute rifle at long range. Those with 4 minute groups with a rifle will say a deer at 250 yards is easy blow smoke.

[RobS]

Yes, true but the loss of energy much past 100 is a concern too. Long ranges means more CNS hits that is harder to do.
Even though I have shot 3/4" groups at 100 off hand, my norm is 6". I shake more with my age, going on 78 years.
There is much said about "PLACEMENT" but to hit the spine at 100 with a revolver is a pipe dream and an accident.
I demand accuracy above all else but can't do the CNS hits without luck so boolit performance is next. I could hit deer at 200 from Creedmore or a rest but energy is gone. You will lose deer. Deer at 100 look very small so those that have a limit of 50 are very smart. I only extend the range because of accuracy.
"PLACEMENT" bothers me, you need a rifle from a BR. You need less then a 1/2 minute rifle at long range. Those with 4 minute groups with a rifle will say a deer at 250 yards is easy blow smoke.

I hear you and yes a deer in open sights does look rather small at 100 yards.

[Electric88]

Drop at 100 is really not bad. Even with my 330 gr when sighted 1" high at 50, drop at 100 is a couple inches. No trouble hitting beer cans with the Ultra Dot by holding near top.
Now at 200 it is something else dropping a good 35". The Lee 310 drops less. The RD 265 drops about 1" at 100. No concern at all for deer. I have killed deer to out to 120 yards. I was on the ground and could use my knees for a brace. I have done that off hand with the .500 JRH when the deer was off to the side and I could not turn to get knees there. Jammed against a tree makes it hard to move.
My longest shot with the .45 Vaquero was 100-110 yards, off hand. I aimed over her back since she was facing away and took her in the neck, instant drop. Funny hunt, just dropped a friend at a stand and the grandson and I was walking back and booted deer from the thick and she stopped to look back over her shoulder. Grandson said "shoot her." I said "I can't shoot through this junk." OK, drew the gun and made it through all the little trees. If he would have looked at me he would have seen the biggest eyes EVER! :bigsmyl2:
Revolvers are amazing.
Don has been with me on many hunts, he uses a .270. He was watching a buck above me when it turned and went over my fence. I spotted it and shot with my SRH, he bolted and ran in front of me, I hit him again but the first shot went through his heart.
I am going to hand him my .44 this coming season and make him leave the rifle home. He has seen me lay out 3X the deer he does. Think I will convince him?

That is awesome! I have yet to hunt with my SRH, but hopefully soon enough! I hope you manage to convince him!

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my real world take on it. Either will push a good cast bullet that's 250-300 grain to 1100 fps and that's where I run both for hunting anyway so power I call equal. The 44 has a slight edge in accuracy, at least it did in the at least a dozen of each ive owned. I don't even consider trajectory a factor in handgun hunting. My take on it is that if you shoot your gun as much as you should to be a competent handgun hunter you already know where it hits at any range and holdover is about automatic. If your a bit less experienced just sight the gun in at the max range you are capable of putting a cylinder full into 6 inches EVERY TIME and call it good.

I don't by that the added size of a 45 is going to kill better then a 44. Its a small difference and with cast bullets the size of the meplat has a much bigger effect then bullet diameter does. So what it comes down to to me is accuracy. If your 45 shoots good enough use it. I chuckle though at the guys that use the 45 because they think it makes them somehow look like a more experienced handgun shooter. Id say more of the real experienced shooters like 44man and others will tell you they started with 44s went through the 45 and its cult like following and came back home to the 44.

Seems a few gun writers who needed to make a name for themselves started claiming the 45 was godsent and vastly superior to the 44 and convinced a lot of people that didn't know better. I kind of relate it to the 270vs06 thing. Back when jack O Connor sang the praises of the 270 every real rifleman had to have one. Others saw that and figured if they bought themselves a 270 theyd look as knowledgeable as the experts. Pretty soon there was 270s everywhere. For me and many it got to the point that every idiot that knew nothing about shooting had to have themselves a 270. Many of us found that the good old 06 did everything better then the 270 anyway and just found ourselves coming back to what really worked. Now im not saying the 44 does everything better or for that matter anything better but to those walking around with the 45s thumbing there nose at 44s should know that in the real world the advantage is in there head not in the field. take both of them out and kill 50 or so animals and youll find that there isn't spit difference between them.

[44man]

I have to get him here to teach him the revolvers. I don't see much problem, he is a great shot and deer do not bother him. He waits for the perfect shot and will not shoot if it is not there. He is a good archer too.
His biggest problem is his 270 ruins a lot of meat.

[44man]

Lloyd, I have owned the 270 and 280 and they are very good guns. I sold my last that was a 280 because even with behind the shoulder shots, my deer were bloodshot head to tail. Now my 6.5x55 did not do that and killed even faster.
I hate rifles to carry, cumbersome and heavy. Have to carry the thing dragging deer. So great to holster a revolver and have hands free. I wind up carrying friends rifles while they drag.
Around here the 30-30 lever gun should be king of rifles or a .35 Rem. I don't know why guys use 7mm and 300 mags! I guess it is reading gun rags! None can handle recoil. The amount of rotting deer I find is hard to put into words. It is magnumitus disease.

[Tom W.]

I had a .45 Blackhawk Convertible and a Super RedHawk .44 mag. The SRH is the more accurate of the two, and with that big 310 gr Lee bullet, I decided to trade off the BH for a Glock...

[jonp]

If both are loaded to the same velocity with the same boolit weight are we then talking the size of the wound channel in a 44 vs 45? Is there enough to make a difference?

The colt would be lower in pressure so should have less recoil with a softer recoil pulse would it not?

[Tom W.]

I don't believe the size of the wound channel would make that much, if any, of a difference. I do know the felt recoil was less from the Super RedHawk than the single action Blackhawk, with both charges being the same, or almost the same, the major difference was the bullet. I used the RCBS 270 SAA cast in the BH, and the Lee 310 in the SRH.

[RobS]

I don't believe the size of the wound channel would make that much, if any, of a difference. I do know the felt recoil was less from the Super RedHawk than the single action Blackhawk, with both charges being the same, or almost the same, the major difference was the bullet. I used the RCBS 270 SAA cast in the BH, and the Lee 310 in the SRH.

Not an apples to oranges comparison between a BH and a SRH regards to recoil. SRH is a tank with it's weight and the grip is different as well vs the BH if considering factory grips of the two.

[Lloyd Smale]

loaded like that with your eyes closed youd never be able to tell which you were shooting and you could look at 20 deer shot with both and not be able to guess by reaction to the shot which were shot buy the 44 and which were shot by the 45 and I doubt you could even tell with a close look inside. The differnces are more a topic of conversation then anything real world in the field. .
If both are loaded to the same velocity with the same boolit weight are we then talking the size of the wound channel in a 44 vs 45? Is there enough to make a difference?

The colt would be lower in pressure so should have less recoil with a softer recoil pulse would it not?

[44man]

If both are loaded to the same velocity with the same boolit weight are we then talking the size of the wound channel in a 44 vs 45? Is there enough to make a difference?

The colt would be lower in pressure so should have less recoil with a softer recoil pulse would it not?
Not really, it is weight pushed and gun weight that determines recoil, not the pressure.
I can't shoot the .45 as fast as the .44 with accuracy since the twist is different. The smaller gun in the .45 will kick harder then my .44. I use near the same weight boolits, 335 in the .45 and 320 in the .44, same exact amount of 296 in both but the .45 will get your attention.
More velocity might add some push of course but it is a quicker snap. .454 an example. I have shot many .454's and still consider my .45 more harsh. Just less metal.

[44man]

loaded like that with your eyes closed youd never be able to tell which you were shooting and you could look at 20 deer shot with both and not be able to guess by reaction to the shot which were shot buy the 44 and which were shot by the 45 and I doubt you could even tell with a close look inside. The differnces are more a topic of conversation then anything real world in the field. .
There IS a difference with deer between a .44 and .45. Deer hit with the .44 just outright bolt and run. All the deer I shot with the .45 do not react that way. One laid down a few feet from where I hit her. A few others bucked but walked away to drop soon.
But both work in the end.
Actually deer hit with my ROA and a round ball reacted more violently but died faster.

[jonp]

I should have been clearer. All things being the same whether velocity, gun weight, boolit weight etc. Thanks for catching that 44man.

I have found that the pressure does make a difference in recoil pulse at least to me. A higher pressure loading compared to a lower pressure using different powders with the same velocity seems different. Maybe I'm just imagining things.

[Ed K]

The wound channel of a 45 is 10.5% greater over a 44 (Same boolit, same velocity, etc.)
The wound channel of a 475 is 10.9% greater over a 45 (Same boolit, same velocity, etc.)
If there is no advantage to the 45 then there should not be a significant one jumping to 475. However field conditions are not all that scientific and it has been my observation that on this forum the relative effectiveness of the 475 is the stuff legends are made of while the 45's advantage (over the 44) is often dismissed. Don't see how there can be such disparate views.

[44man]

For recoil, the higher the velocity, the higher the recoil, just moving the weight of the boolit faster. Plus you have more powder and that can add to boolit weight depending on burn rate.
Now the .475 is an animal! I have taken many deer with mine and still use a hard boolit. My boolit is 420 gr at 1329 fps. Rarely will a deer run anywhere, only a heart shot made about 30 yards, most just drop dead. You need to see it to appreciate it. I lose no meat either. It might be the best hunting caliber in the revolver then anything ever. Takes getting used to but after, the .45 and .44 are so easy and you will no longer feel them.
Then I moved up to the .500 JRH to find the hard boolit was acting like the .45 and deer could go farther then the .45 with no blood trails. Most 100 to 120 yards. The big 440 gr, WFN at 1350 fps did not know it went through a deer! I softened half the nose and 4 out of 5 last year hit the ground like lightning got them, the last made 20 yards in a spray of blood.
I learned the diameter of the boolit and size of the meplat meant nothing. I had to make the boolit work.
So when you say a .45 is larger and makes a bigger hole, it depends on boolit construction NOT size. You have to figure out where to apply energy and how to change the boolit for each gun.
I have no use for book ME figures. I tend towards the "DWELL TIME" idea.
I do not believe in energy loss with too much penetration either.146042
This is the heart shot from a 22 bhn .475 boolit at 55 yards. That boolit is still going in orbit! 146043 Neck shot with my 330 gr, .44 WLN, 22 bhn boolit.
Imagine a soft HP? I am not going there.
Why a heavy boolit? You can see why. Stacking my revolver deer would fill this whole site.

[44man]

The wound channel of a 45 is 10.5% greater over a 44 (Same boolit, same velocity, etc.)
The wound channel of a 475 is 10.9% greater over a 45 (Same boolit, same velocity, etc.)
If there is no advantage to the 45 then there should not be a significant one jumping to 475. However field conditions are not all that scientific and it has been my observation that on this forum the relative effectiveness of the 475 is the stuff legends are made of while the 45's advantage (over the 44) is often dismissed. Don't see how there can be such disparate views.
You are into the size thing, does not work.
We are into the cast boolit thing for a reason, we can change the boolit to work and diameter or meplat size has no meaning at all. You read over and over, a larger meplat kills faster. 100% false.
Hollow points kill faster, also 100% false. Stop the boolit inside for "ENERGY DUMP." also 100% false.
You can make a .45 Colt kill as fast as a .44 with less velocity and pressure for sure but it will be the boolit you use, not the size.
Seeing a .500 boolit work WORSE then a .45 is an experience you must live.
I am not a "BOOK" hunter, I learn from experience. I got into the trap but it did not last long. We make mistakes so it takes thinking on your part. I have made too many mistakes and am getting a better handle on it. My success rate has climbed to the point I expect deer on the ground out of recoil.
Have I killed more deer then anyone here with revolvers? Maybe, I don't know. Getting close at 174. Next season will be 30 years with the revolver. I have taken more then stated because of archery, rifles and ML's but I can't pull my bows anymore and get my limit before ML seasons. They cut doe to 3 a season and I don't know about this year yet. I used to get 7 a year. 6 with a revolver is average. Now it is 5 only, all seasons.

[ole 5 hole group]

44Man - you know what works for you and your game animals in your area. May not be the same in other areas.

Energy dump is a myth - I'll agree with you on that.

Not considering CNS strikes, the larger meplat will kill faster all else being equal, hollow points if constructed properly and with good expansion and penetration might kill faster.

We just need to remember larger wounds create a greater probability of hemorrhagic shock (loss of blood/oxygen to the brain- lowering blood pressure), the fore-runner to primary shock (the animal goes down). Larger wounds bleed more, larger wounds destroy and/or macerate more tissue, and larger wounds have a higher probability of disrupting nerve plexuses. These are the mechanisms of incapacitate, which means bigger is usually always better all else being equal - period - however, the animal just might not know the difference - doesn't matter, as WE KNOW the DIFFERENCE, bigger is better, 0.452 owns the 0.429 in that regard with all other things being equal in the discussion.

44 Mag being better than a 41 Mag, 45 Colt being better than the 44 Mag, 475 being better than the 45 Colt etc etc - on and on. They will all kill efficiently with proper bullet placement.

With the human animal - pain is also a consideration with incapacitate - that's why some will go down with a minor wound and a few of those might even die if not treated immediately. Deer and other animals don't seem to have that problem, at least not to my knowledge??

[44MAG#1]

Now let's sum this all up like this. RECOIL: If one will load both to their top potential with a safe load if you can handle one you can handle the other. If you can't do that one needs to drop back to a 357 Mag shoot ONLY from a solid rest to be able to place your bullet on a live target.
ACCURACY: How well can one shoot from various positions. Not from a sandbagged bench rest but from field positions? I belong to a range where one sees many shoot handguns and I will tell you this that most cannot and could not tell the accuracy difference between a one inch load and a two inch load or a two inch load and a four inch load if their life depended on it from various shooting positions at fifty yards much less any farther.
ive seen a few that were pretty darn good from the bench but get them off it and their shooting sucked big time.
The question asked already gave me the answer.
Some of the hotshot shooters on here forget that many, many, many cannot hit much from less than a steady rest and then some cannot do that too well.
Just because one can take a curve at eighty miles and hour doesn't mean that everyone who drives can do it.

[ole 5 hole group]

Good post 44Mag#1 Kinda like with the rifle - I see people ringing that 16 inch gong every shot from the bench once they get everything dialed in. Once on their hind legs, that gong is about as safe as can be from most - once in a while you'll see a riflemen in the group and they are a pleasure to watch and talk to.

Ya, strange how that 0.5" to 1" 5-shot group at 25 yards rested can turn into a 10 inch PLUS, sometimes plus+plus 5-shot group offhand at 50 yards. Not many shooting that half to one inch group consistently off sandbags at 50 feet and even less at 25 yards.

I've been out the past two days - seems like most these days have given up on bullseye targets. They use an oversized human torso - I mean gorilla size puppies. Most keep everything within that area - maybe a 3 foot group at times with a few "fliers".

Everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves and that is good enough for me - whatever they are satisfied with suits me just fine - I just wish I had their attitude, as I beat myself up when I have a couple poor groups in a row. One poor group - OK, two or more in a row - that's ME, not the handgun and that's not AOK. Shooting at live prairie dogs, I can enjoy myself missing with either a handgun or rifle, as I know the Good Lord didn't intent for that creature to die that day unless they would give me a couple sighters at the longer ranges and even then sometimes they luck out.;)

[44man]

There is a lot of truth about shooting the handgun said. It is not easy.
I have always had good trigger control off hand but the wobble has become worse with age.
Wobble must be ignored as the trigger pressure is added, that will let you shoot much closer.
You need to call a shot even if a miss.
Once you see the sights cross the bullseye and mash the trigger at that instant, you might as well not even shoot, same with a rifle. THIS is the reason for most bad shooting. You must NEVER make your gun fire when you think it is right. let the gun go off when IT is ready. So what if you are 2" off the bull? It only means you are 2" off.

[Ed K]

You can make a .45 Colt kill as fast as a .44 with less velocity and pressure for sure but it will be the boolit you use, not the size.

Are you suggesting this feat requires that each cartridge be loaded with a different type boolit?

[Lonegun1894]

Are you suggesting this feat requires that each cartridge be loaded with a different type boolit?

Not so much a different type bullet, but rather matching alloy/hardness to the desired velocity/performance. For example using a harder bullet if you want more penetration but perhaps a softer one if you want more expansion, etc.

[Grapeshot]

I have owned and shot three S&W M29 and M629's and never liked the recoil of factory ammo. Even after having a M29 Mag-na-ported. The r3coil was redirected straight back without the muzzle flip. To shoot it comfortably and accurately I would have to down load to .45 Cold specs. So I got rid of them and stayed with my S&W 25-5, Colt M1909 New Service and Colt Anaconda .45 Colt revolvers for serious work and my Single Action Army guns for CAS work with Black Powder. Nothing wrong with the .44's but if I was going to load them down, why keep them?

[44man]

Not so much a different type bullet, but rather matching alloy/hardness to the desired velocity/performance. For example using a harder bullet if you want more penetration but perhaps a softer one if you want more expansion, etc.
Exactly. Just the alloy or a softer nose, maybe a small HP. I like a hard drive band and let the nose do the work.
I have never found recoil from a .44 harsh and after going to the larger calibers, the .44 is in the back seat. I teach more with a .475 or .500 JRH first until there is comfort with them, then a .44 will be at the point you look at the gun to see if it fired! :bigsmyl2: Even a hot .454 does not feel worse then a .44.
I do not like the wood panels on a SBH so use Pachmeyer signature grips to get me away from the trigger guard. S&W 29 grips never were a problem. SRH is fine but I don't like RH grips. I hate Bisley like no other, they do not fit me. I will NEVER buy another. My Bisley was here for 2 weeks. Relief it went fast.

[ole 5 hole group]

On the Red Hawk you probably need "custom" grips. The stock grips will give your palm/webbing a beating with heavy loads and going to the Pachmeyer Signature grips didn't do a thing - that upper back strap is just too thin for big paws. Maybe the Jordan Trooper with gloves?

[tygar]

Well I guess it's a lot with what you started with. For me a .44. Got my first around 1960. Probably have had 100 or so & still have 6 or 8. Have had a number of .45LCs but found them kind of up & down on the bores & not as easy to get good accuracy. Still have a couple, a SAA Colt & a early M25. I can't comment on any .45LC being loaded to what I get my .44s up to cause I've never been into them like the .44s. All that being said, the .44 can't even carry the jock strap of my overgrown .45s in .454.